The importance of rimshots

[k3ng]

I haven't been doing rimshots for ages. I've only ever used them scarcely in my solos. Last week, I found I could barely pull out a clean rimshot when I wanted to. My rimshot accurancy is astoundingly poor! (off to practice!)

Question though, How important are they really? I mean, I've been playing alot of jazz and havent really found places where I actually need to use rimshots. I've been playing for quite a while without them and don't seem to have any deliberate practical usage of them. But then again, seeing a few threads here and there got me wondering how important they are and in what context would you use them most commonly?

[crumbdrums]

Though I'm certainly not the most qualified to answer, I'll offer my 2 cents.

If the only the that you play is jazz than you probably won't play a rimshot your're whole life. However, that is rarely the case. We drummers are often called upon to play many diferent types of music, very often including rock, wich is when rimshots come in handy. Listen to all the rock drummers of....whenever. All of them use rimshots. Listen to how much Alex Van Halen plays them. It gives that really fat backbeat sound that fits rock so well.

So, in answer to your question, if you would like to make yourself a more versatile (and probably better) drummer, than yes, they are important.

P.S. Sorry if I came off as one of those "Rawk Rulez" type of guys. I certainly enjoy other types of music, but the rimshot seems most applicaple in a rock setting.

[Capitaine Quebec]

It can help with ghost note. A rimshot cut more than a stroke on the head only. This make a bigger difference between the ghost note and the accent. And as crumbdrums said, it gives a fat back beat because it cut through the sound of the whole kit.

[bermuda]

It can help with ghost note. A rimshot cut more than a stroke on the head only.

To expand on that a bit, playing the rim also sounds like you're playing hard without hitting hard or actually playing loud. So it's a good way to convey energy without the volume - you can play fairly quietly yet still sound like you're rockin out.

Bermuda

[Class A Drummer]

I dont belive that rimshots are terribly important, though i do love using them. They make a really cool sound, and lets you play crazy loud with a slightly different noise then just wailing as hard as you can with the moeller whip.

Although they are fun and helpful for playing loud, its not like we couldnt play a solo or anything else w/o rimshots.

In conclusion, fun but not always necassery.

[KCDrummer]

Rimshots are a huge part of my vocabulary. I believe that you should try to get as many different sounds as you can out of every drum and cymbal on your set. With a little practice, you can develop a few different types of rimshots that all sound different and use them not just on the snare, but on the toms too.

A great example of this type of playing is Bill Stewart. He uses rimshots all over the place, and he doesn't always use them as loud accents--he can control them so that they're the same volume, just a different sound.

[finnhiggins]

I dont belive that rimshots are terribly important...

Although they are fun and helpful for playing loud, its not like we couldnt play a solo or anything else w/o rimshots.

In conclusion, fun but not always necassery.

This is why you sound like crap when you play, as discussed at great length on other threads. Sorry to be blunt and all, but it's true - your drum tone is terrible, and a good chunk of that is that you think that "playing a solo" is more important than the sounds you make.

Touch - the way you play, the articulations you use, the way you grip your sticks, control the rebound, the way you angle your sticks during rimshots, whether you leave them down or let them bounce, etc - is as big a part of your tone as your tuning, heads or gear. If you don't think it's necessary then I can only hope it's just inexperience and you'll realise sooner or later that other drummers sound much better than you when they play simple stuff on the same gear.

For some styles of music rimshots are utterly, utterly essential. Listened to Vinnie playing a pop session? All rimshots, all perfectly consistent, with both hands. He can play clean, consistent singles which move from tip strokes to rimshots in a crescendo. It sounds great, even if he's just playing relatively simple snare fills with it.

Basically the rimshot has been part of the "standard" rock/pop drum tone for much of the 80s and 90s. So if you're playing music that is twenty to thirty years old you will need to have your rimshots down. And for most of that music nobody will give a rat's posterior if you can play a solo or not - they just want the drums to sound right in the groove. Rimshots will do that. If you walk into many rock studio situations and fail to play rimshots for your backbeats you'll either be asked to do it (if the band or producer is savvy) or just not asked to come back because they won't think your backbeat tone is "right".

You do need to be a bit cautious though - rimshots are not universally applicable. Music from the 60s often sounds just plain WRONG with rimshots - 60s drumming was often a lot lighter in touch than modern playing, and rimshots just makes it sound cheesy and badly played. Ditto in jazz, you can still use them for a varied tone and for accents, but your comping shouldn't all be rimshots.

But returning to the missing-of-the-point above: what the stuff you play SOUNDS LIKE is ultimately more important than what you're playing. In most music you can get away with playing a very basic pattern to define the time as long as the tone is good. But if your tone is bad or inappropriate then any amount of flailing won't save you from just sounding like a bad drummer.

Rimshots are snare drum tone lesson 1, along with strokes to the centre and edge of the drum at different dynamics. If you can't adequately control all of those tones then you need to forget about your paradiddles and cheesyfiddles and just sit down and practice playing single strokes at 30bpm until you can play all those tones cleanly and consistently, and move between them at will.

[centralzeke]

Whoa! Take it easy.

And rimshots not used in jazz? Anyone listen to Tony Williams or anything free jazz?!

[finnhiggins]

Whoa! Take it easy.

And rimshots not used in jazz? Anyone listen to Tony Williams or anything free jazz?!

Tony is kind of interesting, because he DOESN'T rimshot in a lot of places you'd expect him to. Those big crescendos on the snare drum are cool because he actually just does it all with the tips, and it gets that really full, fat, ballsy 70s-type tone as it hits the top of its dynamic range. Really cool. But in other places he does use them for tonal colour.

They definitely are used in jazz, Buddy Rich was a master of using them for energy in solos and so forth and had excellent rimshot control. But they're not an essential part of the style - you can play convincing jazz time without using them, they're more of a personal touch or tonal colour. In rock/pop they definitely are essential though, I'd challenge anybody out there to find me a working session drummer who can't control their rimshots to an extremely high level.

[Wavelength]

I have to agree with Finn. Controlled rimshots in different dynamics and different playing areas of the head give an infinite amount of snare tone variations. I play rimshots in jazz all the time, usually towards the rim, to get nice resonant, wide open accents.

Train your ears to hear different sound colors available on your kit, and you'll start to sound a lot better.

[Crazy]

Unfortunately I don't realy remember from which drumfest video it was (modern drummer or drummers collective), but Steve Smith gives a little lesson on the various sounds you can get out of a snare drum and of course solo's on the snare to illustrate this and I think it gives a good scope on the many possibilities, including rimshots

[Cabazon]

While not all styles call for lots of rimshots, it's nice to be able to do one when you wish to, if the situation should call for one. It's just one (actually several) more sound you can make (and a rather nice one, depending on the snare).

[Class A Drummer]

This is why you sound like crap when you play, as discussed at great length on other threads. Sorry to be blunt and all, but it's true - your drum tone is terrible, and a good chunk of that is that you think that "playing a solo" is more important than the sounds you make.



nah man. if i say it once ill say it again, the fact that i used such a low quality camera made it sound bad. But its not just that, its also the fact that it was like 3 inches away from my drums. It gets all gross sounded and distorted when its close. Same with my mp3 player, whenever i record myself on it, i have to actually bring it to another room, then play or else it gets distorted (but to a much much higher level than from my vids, like it actually burns my ears to listen to it).

plz no stupid arguments from people about how im obviously wrong and stupid, because unless you actually hear my drum set up close or all miched up or somthing, you never have proof that im wrong.

so plz no stupid arguments, finn go ahead and respond to this but the mods would probably appreciate it if people would keep this thread clean.

once again, i dont think rim shots that terribly important. they are helpful but not nesesarry.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Even if your kit sounds bad, you can make it sound half decent with your tone. A crap camera won't make a blindest bit of difference, I didn't notice any distortion on that particular clip. Christ, you just don't get it do you?

[Ozzy Biz]

I agree that if you want to be considered a decent, well-rounded player you need to have them at your disposal. A great example of a guy who uses them heaps is Stanton Moore; you can see and hear them on his DVD (I'm watching the 'modern approach' one now). And with this thought, I'm going to go work on mine as they're not where they should be at the moment.

Biz

[Steady Freddy]

Rim shots are an important and essential part of drum set dynamics. Just like ghost notes, the rim shot can be used with great effect. A simple rim shot in the right place can be very dynamic.

I use them all the time at the end of 4, 8 & 16 bar phrases along with the obvious rock back beats and accents.

Blues shuffles also come to mind were both hands are playing the first and last note of each triplet, while the left hand is landing a rim shot on two and four. A perfect combination of rim shots and ghost notes. This technique is generally referred to as a Texas shuffle.

[k3ng]

I guess I've never quite played too much rock in my style, but thats a lame excuse I suspect. Anyways, with regard to most of the applications here, I usually use ordinary accents. So should I maybe shift those accents into rimshots every now and then?

What would be a great practice exercise to move between ghost notes, accents, and rimshots?

And on a side note, how do you get a clean rimshot with trad grip?

[jazzin']

I guess I've never quite played too much rock in my style, but thats a lame excuse I suspect. Anyways, with regard to most of the applications here, I usually use ordinary accents. So should I maybe shift those accents into rimshots every now and then?

What would be a great practice exercise to move between ghost notes, accents, and rimshots?

And on a side note, how do you get a clean rimshot with trad grip?

Hey k3ng, I think a good exercise is simply what you said. Move between ghost notes, accents and rimshots (from middle of shaft to just the tip), in a crescendo single stroke.
I love the tip rimshot in latin/afro cuban styles. Replicates timbales nicely (snares off). Also whilst playing time just whack away on rimshots repeatedly with the left hand ie. playing jazz time, left hand plays triplets (slow tempo) or eighth notes (medium/fast tempos). Sounds great. As someone above mentioned, Bill Stewart incorporates this sound very nicely.

To get clean rimshots with trad, you just have to adjust the angle of your snare to meet the angle of your hand/arm. Rest your hand in a relaxed..errr...resting position and take note of the position then just move your snare to those specifications. Play slow, large movement rimshots just to make sure it's meeting the the head and rim properly. Hope that helps:)

[wybasher]

...
Anyways, with regard to most of the applications here, I usually use ordinary accents. So should I maybe shift those accents into rimshots every now and then?


Absolutely positively. Gives the snare a nice crack you just can't get any other way no matter how hard you hit the center of the snare. A skinny kid with a well-defined rimshot will cut through the mix better than a muscleman trying to beat the center the head. Virtually every famous drummer listed on drummerworld main page does rimshots.


And on a side note, how do you get a clean rimshot with trad grip?

Buddy Rich, Thomas Lang, Dave Weckl, Steve Gadd, Steve Smith, Virgil Donati, etc all get effortless rimshots with trad grip. Tilting the snare angle down&away from you can help (like what Steve Smith, Dave Weckl). But the other guys get rimshots without doing that. A little trickier with the trad grip hand than match grip hand but not difficult at all.

[Pete Stoltman]

I play jazz probably 80% of my gigs. Rimshots are indeed an important part of my vocabulary. Rimshots are a technique that should be learned by everyone regardless of the style of music. They have a place in nearly every genre. It's just as important for a drummer to know rimshots as it would be for a violinist to know how to play pizzicatto or a trumpet player to know how to use mutes.

[h3r3tic]

Though I'm certainly not the most qualified to answer, I'll offer my 2 cents.

If the only the that you play is jazz than you probably won't play a rimshot your're whole life. However, that is rarely the case. We drummers are often called upon to play many diferent types of music, very often including rock, wich is when rimshots come in handy. Listen to all the rock drummers of....whenever. All of them use rimshots. Listen to how much Alex Van Halen plays them. It gives that really fat backbeat sound that fits rock so well.

So, in answer to your question, if you would like to make yourself a more versatile (and probably better) drummer, than yes, they are important.

P.S. Sorry if I came off as one of those "Rawk Rulez" type of guys. I certainly enjoy other types of music, but the rimshot seems most applicaple in a rock setting.

crubdrums is right. Most jazz drummers don´t use rimshots but that doesn´t mean that all of them don´t use them. I don´t play jazz but belive me I´de love to :) and in my opinion if I ever play jazz there´s no doubt that I´ll add some rimshots :)
It´s just a matter of expression. You can tell it when you´re playing something and the when the music needs it or not :)

good luck!

[Drummer Karl]

Well...rimshots CAN be important. It is not a thing of real biiig importance...but they can be GOOD in many musical situations.
Even in Jazz: I have to say that I play pretty much with rimshots while comping...and I think at the moment it is just my style to express myself. I also think that it sounds not bad. You can use em in Jazz of course.
Also in Funk rimshots are cool: Latin rimshots are used so many times, you hit the snare not so fat (like you would play a normal rimshot), you instead play the latin rimshot more on the side of the snare drum.
Rimshots in general make the whole drum sound...well...we in Germany would say: "Knackiger". So, it is like when you eat an apple and it smells, tastes very fresh and it makes this crunchy, scratchy sound when you eat it. If you know what I mean. :-D
I really like rimshots, they also don`t make the snare sound louder...not always. So, if you play now a loud normal snare hit or a normal played rimshot, it isn`t louder. not so much louder.
Try em, it is nice to work with them, make the groove even more groovy I think. Be careful...but experiment a lot with em!

Karl

[Ramsh]

I say play what you like. I play Metal and rimshots, on the other side I don't play ghost notes.

[theduke86]

Finn is absolutely and unequivocably correct on this issue. If you don't know how to put a rimshot 100% consistently anywhere, you will never play backbeat music for big money.
I talked to Poogie Bell once- he said when he was younger he would set the metronome at 40 and play a groove for two or three hours until he got his rimshots perfectly consistent. Rimshot control is required for the modern pop/rock vibe and most other styles as well.
Class A- unfortunately Finn is correct. On subpar bootleg recordings (not that I have any or anything), Vinnie still sounds fantastic. On subpar recordings, Class A sounds like Class A.

[NeddyRules]

I reckon rimshots are important if ya wanna be heard in louder music wen hitting just the middle wont cut it. but they can be too much is some musics.

[Pete Stoltman]

Guys, rimshots are not just so you can be loud. A rimshot is a musical effect. Where they are placed and how they are played is in relationship to the music. If you're playing some situations it might call for a rimshot on all backbets. In other situations it may be just to accent a particular phrase in the music. I've had situations in orchestral music that calls for rimshots. To say that they are not used in one kind of music or another is just not true. It all depends on the music. You shouldn't think "well I haven't played a rimshot for a while so maybe I should do one now". It's to enhance the music. Learning how and when to use any type of musical effect is part of the creative process. Use your ears.

[kned]

Unfortunately I don't realy remember from which drumfest video it was (modern drummer or drummers collective), but Steve Smith gives a little lesson on the various sounds you can get out of a snare drum and of course solo's on the snare to illustrate this and I think it gives a good scope on the many possibilities, including rimshots

That was the 2003 Moddern Drummer Festival DVD

[jangus]

Other than for powerful backbeats I find them good in jazz or big band solos. Ever listen to Buddy Rich's solos? He uses them all the time.

[LinearDrummer]

I dont belive that rimshots are terribly important, though i do love using them. They make a really cool sound, and lets you play crazy loud with a slightly different noise then just wailing as hard as you can with the moeller whip.

Although they are fun and helpful for playing loud, its not like we couldnt play a solo or anything else w/o rimshots.

In conclusion, fun but not always necassery.


Dude you can't be serious....

[Tuxido]

as already said, very important in rock, but i like them when i want a longer ring from my snare or when i want i high pitch timbale like sound (when doing a rimshot with about 2in of you stick)

Also, when using low volume rebounds, you can do a rimshot by "snapping" your wrist down witch makes a nice accent and is (in my opinion) easier than lifting your wrist back up to hit harder. (hard to explain but thats the best i could do)

[RudimentalDrummer]

Though usually, Rim-Shot are thought of as use more often on a Rythmn Pattern eg. in Rock, hitting the snare & rim to create that louder sound/crack without using much effort..which is true needs practice, especially so if you want the sound to be even & consistent.

To me - To be able to have good control doing a good Rim-Shot also means a need to having ...good control over Ghosting Technique (In a way they both do complement each other very well in learning CONTROL).

I used to practice Rim-Shot Hitting it right at the centre of the snare...but that will not sound good, so I hit it nearer the edge of the snare (but not too near)....It sound better especially when you use Fast-Stroke & Accenting Rim-Shot together. I think in Jazz..we can use rim-shot in this manner. Dave Weckl does use Rim-Shot in his Groove and it's beautiful

I found out that to do a Good Rim-Shot, or to play it consistently and dynamically with speed is never never easy...takes plenty of practice....In practicing - always look at both hands & the snare, and listening to the sound we're creating (must sound consistent & good)........

Rim-Shot when applied to Rudiments is beautiful, when done correctly...many good drummers does that too

Just my personal opinion.

[RudimentalDrummer]

Also, when using low volume rebounds, you can do a rimshot by "snapping" your wrist down witch makes a nice accent and is (in my opinion) easier than lifting your wrist back up to hit harder. (hard to explain but thats the best i could do)

Yes you are right...that's why the Double Stroke "Pull-Up" Techniques is important...it helps alot here.

[Jaden]

This thread has singlehandedly turned my attention back to perfecting this fine art.

Thank you


By the way, Im a college student, and as for other college education people I know who happen to be drummers, you would be completely shocked at how few even know the concept of rim shotting in general. Im tellin ya--- what I personally see in terms of trends and mindsets relating to drums on these forums is rather skewed in relation to conversations and insights I have with the common drummer I meet at a bar.

But this makes us more informed- so it works both ways.

I mean...50 percent of the drummers I talk to couldn't even name you the big 3 drum companies..its a different world on these boards

[RudimentalDrummer]

Although they are fun and helpful for playing loud, its not like we couldnt play a solo or anything else w/o rimshots.

In conclusion, fun but not always necassery.

Actually, if the concept of using Rim-Shot is to play as loud as possible (Then That's A Wrong Application)...louder yes, but most importantly must sound good - (No..actually the word is "it must sound right" ).

If a drummer is very good into executing rim-shot & ghost notes (as an example here)..say he does a 16th note (1eta, 2eta,3eta,4eta) straight just on his snare only incorporating Rim-Shot on any of the (1234, e, + or, a) - if he had master the technique with speed - it can be a very beautiful Solo by itself...he adds in the Bass Drum, and it will sound even better....and at this stage - he can actually applied this accenting technique around the entire kit (Cymbals, hats, toms - anywhere)....it becomes automated & it is here that one have to watch his Ghosting Techniques (making sure it's soft and nice again) - your both hands just moves automatically (by instinct).......this is how useful and beautiful...accenting can be perfected...I say it's hard to achieved...because......This is my favourite practice....I love the sound and the many possibilities I could apply them....and I have been practicing for almost a year now.....

Believed me - I still can't reach the stage of what it should be - FAST, & SOUND PERFECTLY EVEN & CONSISTENT..it's not as easy as it seems - just to master this one alone...and there are more to this after mastering this...It's hard to master Accenting alone - play yes everyone can do it. It's about SOUND & SPEED.

PS:- A Good Drumming Instructor will tell his students doing this kind of Techniques ...focusing most importantly on "Sound Produce".....A "Couldn't-Be-Bother" type of Instructor will tell you - you are ok, as long as you accent on the right note and playing it quite fast..but this defeat the purpose of Accenting....maybe you heard someone play like this - so Accenting is nothing great to you my Bro.

[dizkneelande]

it's important to be able to do anything if it's needed. and ive seen rimshots written in on swing charts ive played before

[k3ng]

Ok so I have been doing some very vigorous practice since I seem to be missing out on something really important...

I can say my right hand is getting pretty consitent..

But I'm still having trouble getting solid rimshots on my left trad grip... frustrating!! Any ideas? I've tried tilting the snare, but it's about the same whatever angle I put it at....

Some of the things I've been practicing

7 stroke rolls using a rimshot on the last stroke
groups of 5 patterns RlrlrLrlrl using rimshots on the accents
and rlrlRLRL again using rimshots for the accents

I can't get my trad grip to work properly... gah!

[h3r3tic]

Ok so I have been doing some very vigorous practice since I seem to be missing out on something really important...

I can say my right hand is getting pretty consitent..

But I'm still having trouble getting solid rimshots on my left trad grip... frustrating!! Any ideas? I've tried tilting the snare, but it's about the same whatever angle I put it at....

Some of the things I've been practicing

7 stroke rolls using a rimshot on the last stroke
groups of 5 patterns RlrlrLrlrl using rimshots on the accents
and rlrlRLRL again using rimshots for the accents

I can't get my trad grip to work properly... gah!

Keep practising. The same happened to me with trad but now everything´s ok cuz I continued to practise that weekness ;)

[dizkneelande]

yeah heretec i agree. just practice rimshots until you get it.

[jackothedrummer1]

My turn for a swing. Rimshots are color, like anything else. All things should be taken account of and used when necessary. I find rimshots to be very useful in my college jazz/funk ensemble.

So think of rimshots of more than, "man that's loud" think of the color you could use it for. Also, think about how a centimeter or 2 closer to/away from the center of the head can cause a major tonal difference for your snare drum. You should also be able to utilize those different "zones", if you will.

[Bad Drummer]

once again, i dont think rim shots that terribly important. they are helpful but not nesesarry.

I was talking to my drum teacher, and when he had a lesson with Garibaldi, he said that in funk rimshots are ESSENTIAL to the music. Not to sound harsh but you have no clue what you're talking about. I guess that was harsh. Whoops.

[samthebeat]

"paradiddles and cheesyfiddles" , thats funny.

Yeah rimshots, the only way to sound like a pro as far as rock and pop music goes, they all use em and so should you.

[Jeroen aka aksie]

Listen to Carter Beauford in the Dave Matthews Band. perfect rimshots.

I love their music !

[Will Hendrix]

Threadstarter, try just raising your snare a bit and flattening it if you don't have it that way already.Then, just practice doing it on ever back beat, then just work on singles with rim shot accents, then do rudiments with rimshots, etc, I think you get the picture, hah.

[hook & lateral]

This is why you sound like crap when you play, as discussed at great length on other threads. Sorry to be blunt and all, but it's true - your drum tone is terrible, and a good chunk of that is that you think that "playing a solo" is more important than the sounds you make.

Touch - the way you play, the articulations you use, the way you grip your sticks, control the rebound, the way you angle your sticks during rimshots, whether you leave them down or let them bounce, etc - is as big a part of your tone as your tuning, heads or gear. If you don't think it's necessary then I can only hope it's just inexperience and you'll realise sooner or later that other drummers sound much better than you when they play simple stuff on the same gear.

For some styles of music rimshots are utterly, utterly essential. Listened to Vinnie playing a pop session? All rimshots, all perfectly consistent, with both hands. He can play clean, consistent singles which move from tip strokes to rimshots in a crescendo. It sounds great, even if he's just playing relatively simple snare fills with it.

Basically the rimshot has been part of the "standard" rock/pop drum tone for much of the 80s and 90s. So if you're playing music that is twenty to thirty years old you will need to have your rimshots down. And for most of that music nobody will give a rat's posterior if you can play a solo or not - they just want the drums to sound right in the groove. Rimshots will do that. If you walk into many rock studio situations and fail to play rimshots for your backbeats you'll either be asked to do it (if the band or producer is savvy) or just not asked to come back because they won't think your backbeat tone is "right".

You do need to be a bit cautious though - rimshots are not universally applicable. Music from the 60s often sounds just plain WRONG with rimshots - 60s drumming was often a lot lighter in touch than modern playing, and rimshots just makes it sound cheesy and badly played. Ditto in jazz, you can still use them for a varied tone and for accents, but your comping shouldn't all be rimshots.

But returning to the missing-of-the-point above: what the stuff you play SOUNDS LIKE is ultimately more important than what you're playing. In most music you can get away with playing a very basic pattern to define the time as long as the tone is good. But if your tone is bad or inappropriate then any amount of flailing won't save you from just sounding like a bad drummer.

Rimshots are snare drum tone lesson 1, along with strokes to the centre and edge of the drum at different dynamics. If you can't adequately control all of those tones then you need to forget about your paradiddles and cheesyfiddles and just sit down and practice playing single strokes at 30bpm until you can play all those tones cleanly and consistently, and move between them at will.

Best.... Post..... Ever.....

[ellenvannin105]

I think a well-placed rimshot can speak in many languages all by itself. When I started playing drums I initially paid scant attention to the rimshot until I first heard Bill Bruford when he was with Yes; he had the most distinctive rimshot sound that I had ever heard,a very musical tone that really made me sit up and take notice. Drummer Karl says that he sometimes comps with rimshots,I do also whilst striving,even at my old age,to approximate the beauty of Bruford's incredible rim sound.Also,Bruford is a jazzer and proof positive that jazz players can easily fit rimshots into their styles; in fact,they invented the rimshot. I do take issue with Finn on one point though: if drummers of the 1960s sound "wrong" it is because they probably felt they had to play rimshots louder than they needed to,like the ones in Wipe Out,for example. Ringo plays beautiful rimshots in songs like She Said She Said (in fact,he achieves a "Bruford" feel 3 years before Bruford made his public entrance in Yes,) Charlie Watts also uses them tastefully,and what about the Motown/Stax drummers Benny Benjamin and Al Jackson of Booker T. & The MGs? All great rimshot players of the 60s. As for poor Class A,I have no idea what he sounds like and am therefore not qualified to comment,other than to say if you do solos without doing rimshots your soloing is probably going to be abit on the bland side. A drum solo without afew well-heeled rimshots is not a solo at all. Expert Tabla players use every square inch of their two little drums,so how much more important it is for us kit drummers to apply the same strategy. Makes total sense to me...

[franklinj]

Dude you can't be serious....

As I can tell from your name, it seems like there is another linear- lover on here. In linear playing, rimshots are GODLY. They are just as important as ghost notes, if not more important.

Class A- once again, you're wrong. Rimsots are very important, and your tone sucks :>|

[Josh is a cult]

Idont understand how rimshots couldent be important...
its another woderful sound you can get out of your drums. why not use it to its full potential?
Some people just dont make sence to me....
=]

[finnhiggins]

I do take issue with Finn on one point though: if drummers of the 1960s sound "wrong" it is because they probably felt they had to play rimshots louder than they needed to,like the ones in Wipe Out,for example. Ringo plays beautiful rimshots in songs like She Said She Said (in fact,he achieves a "Bruford" feel 3 years before Bruford made his public entrance in Yes,) Charlie Watts also uses them tastefully,and what about the Motown/Stax drummers Benny Benjamin and Al Jackson of Booker T. & The MGs? All great rimshot players of the 60s.

No dispute there! My point was more that a lot of 60s material is played without rimshots, often at relatively low dynamics in comparison to what is popular today. If you play a lot of that stuff with rimshot backbeats and high-hand dynamics then it's just going to sound a bit silly - not saying that there weren't great drummers using rimshots in the 60s, just that the popular sound of the era doesn't tend to feature them as prominently as later music from the 70s, 80s and 90s.

For example, trying to play "Apache" by The Shadows with big rockin rimshots would probably be an exercise in disaster given how much of the original feel comes from playing at quite low dynamics with no rimshots...

[doublebass]

hmmm i belive rimshots arent that suitable for jazz,i think the main application is on straight rock beats and it would be out of the general feel to use them in jazz

[h3r3tic]

hmmm i belive rimshots arent that suitable for jazz,i think the main application is on straight rock beats and it would be out of the general feel to use them in jazz
Who said that they´re not suitable?
I think the corect word would unvulgar. But still, it can be done...
Yes their application is more needed in rock and metal, but rimshots can be applied on other styles even in jazz
At least that´s what I think;)

Peace Bro

[RudimentalDrummer]

Who said that they´re not suitable?
I think the corect word would unvulgar. But still, it can be done...
Yes their application is more needed in rock and metal, but rimshots can be applied on other styles even in jazzAt least that´s what I think;)

Peace Bro

Yes you're right...I think the misconception of many (including myself when I started out drumming) was that - Rimshots are supposed to be loud...but is that really so?. The answer is NO

Rimshot makes it sound better (though a little louder only that's all - if you choose to) that's all....but through practice...one can control the volume of the shot...and yet play it very fast, and it make your normal playing and rudiments just sound so much better & dynamical & musical which doesn't means...Lould here....It boils down back to SOUND.

[Miggle]

Wow, and here I am just starting to learn rim shots. My current success rate is getting a good rim shot 1 out of 10 attempts. Hopefully will get that worked out with both hands in a month or 2 then start learning to roll with rim shots. Any tips?

I've seen Class A's videos, they're right. The last i've seen your hits are faily inconsistent. At times I couldn't tell the difference between a ghost note and an accented note. Its not the camera either. I know it sounds bad but i've recorded good drummers play with the crappy recording capabilities of my camera and their playing still shows. (Its a powershot A620). MY mp3 player records even better (Zen Vision M). I've heard you've improved already though.

[RudimentalDrummer]

Wow, and here I am just starting to learn rim shots. My current success rate is getting a good rim shot 1 out of 10 attempts. Hopefully will get that worked out with both hands in a month or 2 then start learning to roll with rim shots. Any tips?

.

Your most important objective now is to get the shot (here you do not focus on sonsistency of sound)...just getting a hit on the rim each time you expedite it...that's all...once ok...then comes control and getting the consistency in sound.

Cheers !

[Miggle]

been playing basic 4 beat for hours and i'm getting the hang of doing rim shots with my left hand. And they sound pretty even. Rim shots on the 10" tom sounds lovely! Man, i'm loving my kit more and more (Catalina Maple).. to think I almost sold it a few months after getting it. I'm right handed so getting them with my right hand is easier but not used to using the right hand for backbeat.

Cheers to this forum!

[Vinnysimmo]

Ok so I have been doing some very vigorous practice since I seem to be missing out on something really important...

I can say my right hand is getting pretty consitent..

But I'm still having trouble getting solid rimshots on my left trad grip... frustrating!! Any ideas? I've tried tilting the snare, but it's about the same whatever angle I put it at....

Some of the things I've been practicing

7 stroke rolls using a rimshot on the last stroke
groups of 5 patterns RlrlrLrlrl using rimshots on the accents
and rlrlRLRL again using rimshots for the accents

I can't get my trad grip to work properly... gah!

My tip would be to lpay along with songs that have a lot of rimshot in them, at different tempos and different genres.
Hope that helps, mate.

[stasz]

Um... thread bump?

I love rimshots. As much as I'd love to wax philosophical on their application I can't state it better than in Finn's post. God it's eerie to read it now... but he's still right. We miss you, Finn.

[Bipitta]

From my experience I've found rimshots extremely useful as a nice, colorful accent when coming into a verse or chorus from a big build-up or when that "welcome back to this section" is needed in a song.

I play primarily in a cover band that covers A LOT and I was quite surprised where and in what styles the darn thing can be st(r)uck.

When I started out, the old drummer spent some time "training" me in and he said used them all the time, flat out, all the time... so I did that for a while, but it just got to be too much as far as the feel went. It was too heavy, all the time. I wasn't hitting hard, which was nice, but that ol' rimshot has the benefit of sounding like you're beating the heck out your poor snare (and it looks like it too after a night of what is, essentially, trying to chop your stick(s) in half on the rim!), so it kind of adds to that "illusion" of drummers needing to hit as hard as possible (when really we don't -- that's what mics are for right?!?)

That was how I learned to play them consistently... kind of a trial by fire for a month or two... just rimshots... four hours straight... every Friday and Saturday night. Sometimes, now, it seems weird NOT to play them all of the time. But I try to keep in mind that most people can't tell the difference between a rimshot and a regular snare hit UNTIL one starts using that rimshot as a different color... that's when the bar-goers take notice!

Now, I use them a lot at the end of rolls just to give that accent a bit more oomph. I also use them to offset a ghost note every once in a while just to switch things up a bit.

The drummer who got me interested in the rimshot was Jimmy Chamberlin from the Smashing Pumpkins. Take a listen to "Tristessa" from Gish for an example of throwing it in as a dynamic punch to a few fills -- or for a more dramatic-powerhouse-sounding example listen to "Geek U.S.A." from Siamese Dream. He would just throw them into spots that just seemed so perfect and really added dynamically to the song.

I go for the less is more approach. Think of it as a different drum all together and use it when the moment is right.

Man I talk too much. Hope that helped a bit.

[mrchattr]

Man, I know this is an old thread, but since it got bumped, I have to say that I am pretty shocked at the way many people in here talk about rim shots. So many misconceptions.

First of all, rim shots are NOT just used to be loud. When you play shots, you can use them at all dynamic levels, including the softest and loudest.

Secondly, many styles of jazz, including acid, free, hard bop, and many others, use rim shots A TON. Elvin Jones used a ton of shots in his playing. Blakey used them frequently. Buddy was a master of controlled shots. The list goes on and on...

Thirdly, the people who said that rim shots are essential for "strong backbeat" style playing were absolutely correct. When I play with my main cover band, I play 2 & 4 as rimshots more often than just on the head...and yet, it is no louder than when I play just on the head for other songs...it just takes control.

One final note...rim shots REALLY open up the sonic options you have on a drum. A shot where you hit only a quarter inch or so up the stick sound very different than a shot that's an inch up the stick, or an inch and a half up the stick, etc. If you can master a bunch of rimshot sounds, you can not only find a good backbeat sound for each song, but use it in soloing well...a five piece kit has a TON of sonic options when you have each drum being able to produce a straight head sound and then four or five (or more) rimshot sounds. I use this trick a lot to change the tone of an open single stroke roll on one tom.

[CASP3Rdrummer]

well i prefer much more ghost notes than rimshots. actually in more than 2000 songs i got on my pc you wont hear a rimshot but ghost notes occasionally yes. so my thougts are if so much music can be made without rimshots then they arent that important but not that they are useless and shouldnt be played.

[jonescrusher]

actually in more than 2000 songs i got on my pc you wont hear a rimshot


I doubt that very much.

[Wavelength]

well i prefer much more ghost notes than rimshots.

Well, I prefer a Porsche over a dustbin, but I wouldn't dream of throwing garbage in it.

[mrchattr]

well i prefer much more ghost notes than rimshots. actually in more than 2000 songs i got on my pc you wont hear a rimshot but ghost notes occasionally yes. so my thougts are if so much music can be made without rimshots then they arent that important but not that they are useless and shouldnt be played.

Bull. You might not even recognize that they are rimshots, because, again, if played right, they are just a different tone.

Oh, and who's to say you can't play both? Or play...(wait for it...) ghost note rim shots?!?!?!?!?!? It can be done. I do it. Not often, admittedly, but it can be done, and there are far better drummers than me out there who do it too.

[stasz]

Well, I prefer a Porsche over a dustbin, but I wouldn't dream of throwing garbage in it.

Couldn't have put it better myself. As funny as this statement is, it's exactly what's incorrect about saying "I like ghostnotes better than rimshots". You may like playing one more than the other, but both have their place.

Oh yeah mrchattr... I love ghosted rimshots. I usually pull back towards the rim a little bit to play them but they sound so sexy.

[CASP3Rdrummer]

first of all i can list you the bands that i have. (mostly the whole discography)
tell me then if any of them have played rimshots...

secondly when i say i prefer ghost notes over rimshots it doesnt mean ghost notes are better or worse than rimshots. just my ears preference. it doesnt mean the one cancels the other. just a preference.

edit: oh and even if i cant recognize who am a drummer why would normal audience do much better than me, whats the point of them then?

[rhydianjlewis]

I prefer peanut butter to rim shots.

For a while i actually questioned my own understanding of a ghost note, but now i'm writing this i understand how strange this all is, and i need to get some sleep badly.

[rhydianjlewis]

That reminds me...


- Whats the difference between ghosts and peanut butter?
- Ghosts don't stick to the roof of your mouth.

[jay norem]

For whatever it's worth, I play jazz and I don't ever play a rim shot. In fact, I pretty much avoid it. I like to just sort of float on my snare, you know, caress it so to speak, make music with it, play jazz on it; it's a real nice sounding drum and it speaks at exactly the volume I like to play. BUT, that's just me. The rim shot is a sound that's there for drummers to use as they choose. I choose not to use it.
Now that I think of it, though, there are one or two places in my songs where I have to go "crack!" But that's pretty much written in, and my snare drum produces a real nice, soulful rim shot sound. But that's about it. I just play the snare drum, I don't bash on it. Not to say that there's anything wrong with bashing, but come on guys. Shouldn't we be looking to come up with our own sounds? I mean, I never got hired because of my rim shots...
There are as many ways to do a thing as there are people to do it.
Still. I can play a rim shot that'll have your ears ringing for days. But that's not the kind of music I play.
For rock music, though, I would think that it's essential.

[k3ng]

WOW, i never thought I'd see my old thread from almost 2 years ago.. Amazing!

Since I started this, perhaps i can also shed some light now that I have err.. err.. seen the light.

Rest assured, from the time I actually posted this till now, there is monumental improvement. Rimshots? Piece of cake. Ghost not rimshots? Easy as pie. (nice reference on the sexy sound a few posts up, I agree totally)

To anyone who is harbouring the misconception that rimshots are unimportant, or that you barely hear them, open your ears. I've now slowly settled into the performance and recording bit in my drumming and I have to say, if you didn't know how to pull out a proper rimshot, you'd soon be fired. Even in a jazz combo. Excerpt from a conversation a while back with my band when trading fours

'Mate, your solo sounded just so... flat. What's up with the snare drum?'
'Err?' - that was me by the way. Months later, practicing incorporating rimshots into my solos and even comping, the results were amazing. The sound was so much better. That beautiful crack of the snare that just travels through the entire room/hall/auditorium.

For those who say you can't hear rimshots in the songs you have, I ask you to record your own drums and see why you lack something. From what I've heard, near 90% of recorded backbeats are rimshots. You only think they aren't because they sound different from your own kit when you sit behind it. Record it. And regret not using rimshots.

I have to say, finn's old post really shook up my playing, and I'm glad it did.

[jay norem]

if you didn't know how to pull out a proper rimshot, you'd soon be fired. Even in a jazz combo.

Oh come on. Huh? Really, that's way overstating it. You're speaking from experience, I take it.
Fired from a "jazz combo" for not playing rim shots...happens all the time.

[xopethx]

this thread is...wow...some people are severely misinformed...


i'd compare using rimshots in your playing, to using headlights when you're driving a car....certainly not always necessary, but look at all the advantages when they're being used! and what an integral part of a drummer's sound! it's so important to master the quietest ghost notes , all the way up to the loudest rimshots (which take barely ANY effort!) and everything in between. Otherwise, your dynamics are rather limited, and you're certainly not using your drums anywhere near their potential.

[jay norem]

and what an integral part of a drummer's sound!

There is where I part ways with this idea. The only thing integral to a drummer's sound is what he uses, how he plays, to make that sound unique. When I hear anyone say "you've got to do this, you've got to be able to do that," then I start getting suspicious.
Yeah, rim shots. Okay. But they're just there, along with a multitude of other ways of playing a drum that you can use or not, depending on what it is you're trying to say, or what it is that the person who's paying you to play is trying to say.
Don't be at all surprised if one day your employer tells you to stop playing all those rim shots.
Really. Most of the time it's not your call. It's up to who's writing the checks.
That is, if you want to do this for a living.

[foursticks]

My thoughts on this are as follows: as a musician it is important to explore all the sounds possible from one's instrument, in order to build up a vocabulary of sound and texture in which one can use to respond to the musical context and fellow musicians in question. Limiting one's vocab is limiting one's ability to fully communicate, respond and add to the music.

So why limit yourself?

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Rimshots are simply a timbral tool. That timbre happens to be fairly vital in some styles and not so in others; that does not however, limit you from experimenting with them in whatever you play. My rimshots are a large part of 'my sound' but for somebody else it might be snare/hi-hat interaction or the fact that they prefer to play towards the bell of the ride. I think it's necessary that we are all capable of playing rimshots and that we use them appropriately. Like playing ghost notes, we should all be capable of playing them if necessary, but that doesn't mean they are needed all the time.

It's merely a case of choosing the appropriate tone for what you want to achieve. It really is as simple as that. Some styles demand it more, some demand it less - some drummers prefer to use it in different contexts that would be considered 'less usual' but that doesn't mean they shouldn't use it; it's a preference and a crux of some styles, but not others.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Rimshots are simply a timbral tool. That timbre happens to be fairly vital in some styles and not so in others; that does not however, limit you from experimenting with them in whatever you play. My rimshots are a large part of 'my sound' but for somebody else it might be snare/hi-hat interaction or the fact that they prefer to play towards the bell of the ride. I think it's necessary that we are all capable of playing rimshots and that we use them appropriately. Like playing ghost notes, we should all be capable of playing them if necessary, but that doesn't mean they are needed all the time.

It's merely a case of choosing the appropriate tone for what you want to achieve. It really is as simple as that. Some styles demand it more, some demand it less - some drummers prefer to use it in different contexts that would be considered 'less usual' but that doesn't mean they shouldn't use it; it's a preference and a crux of some styles, but not others.

That pretty much sums it up.

[mrchattr]

There is where I part ways with this idea. The only thing integral to a drummer's sound is what he uses, how he plays, to make that sound unique. When I hear anyone say "you've got to do this, you've got to be able to do that," then I start getting suspicious.
Yeah, rim shots. Okay. But they're just there, along with a multitude of other ways of playing a drum that you can use or not, depending on what it is you're trying to say, or what it is that the person who's paying you to play is trying to say.
Don't be at all surprised if one day your employer tells you to stop playing all those rim shots.
Really. Most of the time it's not your call. It's up to who's writing the checks.
That is, if you want to do this for a living.

I don't know if xopethx meant to imply that it's integral for ALL drummer's sounds. If so, I agree with you...there are drummers who don't use it, though they are getting fewer and further between, at least in rock and pop. But there are also drummers (HI!) who it is integral to their unique sound...as I said, I use a ton of shots, in a ton of ways, to vary my sonic options as much as possible. Then again, I'm known mostly for my hands, and getting a variety of sounds from each of my instruments, but not everyone is even interested in that being a part of their sound.

[mrchattr]

first of all i can list you the bands that i have. (mostly the whole discography)
tell me then if any of them have played rimshots...

secondly when i say i prefer ghost notes over rimshots it doesnt mean ghost notes are better or worse than rimshots. just my ears preference. it doesnt mean the one cancels the other. just a preference.

edit: oh and even if i cant recognize who am a drummer why would normal audience do much better than me, whats the point of them then?

The point of them is that it makes your drumming better and more unique, even if someone in the audience doesn't realize it. Most audience members will never say, "Woah, the drummer just played a paradiddle, followed by a single stroke roll around the toms and then a measure and a half of syncopated 16th notes split between his hands and feet," but we still learn how to use that stuff, and do use it.

If you seriously want to post some artists from your collection, go ahead. But let me ask you...do you have any Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Phish, Grateful Dead, Avril Lavigne, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock, Jack Johnson, Phish, Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, Nirvana, Jimmy Eat World, Dashboard Confessional, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimi Hendrix, Santana, Neil Diamond, Allman Brothers, Muddy Waters, or Dave Matthews Band? Because if so, don't even bother posting stuff...you have music with lots of shots in it.

*Those artists were picked at random from looking at the CDs I have off to the right of my computer, but they all fit the bill perfectly.

[CASP3Rdrummer]

The point of them is that it makes your drumming better and more unique, even if someone in the audience doesn't realize it. Most audience members will never say, "Woah, the drummer just played a paradiddle, followed by a single stroke roll around the toms and then a measure and a half of syncopated 16th notes split between his hands and feet," but we still learn how to use that stuff, and do use it.

If you seriously want to post some artists from your collection, go ahead. But let me ask you...do you have any Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Phish, Grateful Dead, Avril Lavigne, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Herbie Hancock, Jack Johnson, Phish, Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, Nirvana, Jimmy Eat World, Dashboard Confessional, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimi Hendrix, Santana, Neil Diamond, Allman Brothers, Muddy Waters, or Dave Matthews Band? Because if so, don't even bother posting stuff...you have music with lots of shots in it.

*Those artists were picked at random from looking at the CDs I have off to the right of my computer, but they all fit the bill perfectly.


hmm .. audience will not be able to describe something like you did but they would sure say "wow that was a heck of a complex beat! i bet hes awesome drummer!!!" ...but when its a rimshot in more mainstream music (you know... the type of music that 80% of worlds population listens to) wont even notice it.

now about those bands you listed (you typed 2 times phish) i do actually have some of them on my pc but not that i listen to that much (actually it belongs to my dads collection) but i listen to iron maiden, metallica, megadeth, children of bodom, morbid angel, slayer, rotting christ, ensiferum, kalmah and that "stuff"...

[jay norem]

This all so theoretical. Of course you want to be able to play anything and everything, but when it comes down to it what you have to play is what the person who has hired you wants you to play. That is, as I said before, if you intend to do this for a living.
To say that the rim shot is an integral part of a drummer's sound...I just don't buy it, not if you want to be a sub-contractor.
"Hey, this guy plays rim shots all the time, he'd be perfect for this date." It just doesn't happen like that.
Can you imagine the producer saying to the drummer "Don't play all those rim shots," and the drummer saying "But that's an integral part of my style." Goodbye studio work!

[caddywumpus]

Can you imagine the producer saying to the drummer "Don't play all those rim shots," and the drummer saying "But that's an integral part of my style." Goodbye studio work!

The opposite has been more of my experience. Producers say, "can you get a bigger sound out of the drums?" I'll tune the toms down, stop burying the beater on the bass drum, and play rimshots. Works every time.

Anytime you argue with a producer or act like you have a conflicting opinion or can only play "your style"...goodbye studio work!

[jay norem]

Anytime you argue with a producer or act like you have a conflicting opinion or can only play "your style"...goodbye studio work!

Well exactly. You play what you get hired to play. Period.

[bobdadruma]

I just read this entire thread. That was an amassing discussion. I have to put Visine in my eyes. In my wildest dreams I never thought that the rim shot would be discussed in such depth. That was cool. I never thought about rim shots that much before. I'm going to go and practice my shots and reflect on this thread some more.

[caddywumpus]

I just read this entire thread. That was an amassing discussion. I have to put Visine in my eyes. In my wildest dreams I never thought that the rim shot would be discussed in such depth. That was cool. I never thought about rim shots that much before. I'm going to go and practice my shots and reflect on this thread some more.

And I'm sure it will go into more depth. I mean, c'mon, the thread's only 3 pages long! Apparently we've only scratched the surface...

[bobdadruma]

I thought about it. The rim shot is probably one of the oldest tricks in drumming. When the first trap sets were invented the drummer only had a bass,snare and one trap cymbal. The rim shot was a key tool in his arsenal. When I was a child one of my first memories of drummers was hearing the crack of a rim shot at a wedding. I liked it! It has been used in theater and Vaudeville acts, on variety shows, and in every comedy club that I've ever been to. It's here to stay, people joke about, but we all like it. All genras of music use it to this day. Every drum solo that I've ever heard has them in it. I think that it was one of the first things that I tried to do when I first played a drum. It's no wonder that music producers still insist on having them on their recordings.

[Ruok]

I'm very thankful for threads such as this because it got me to start practicing rimshots which I TOTALLY ignored in about 35 years of drumming. Talk about a late start and I'm kicking myself for it! Though I'm not a pro drummer, I can't get over how much better I sound when rimshots are used in the right places. The snare had so many more sounds in it that I never took advantage of by ignoring rimshots. What a fool I've been! I've got a ways to go to be real good at rimshots, but I've been having noticeable improvement.

[bobdadruma]

The obvious is so often overlooked. I also had forgotten all about them. I took them for granted! Just like my first two wives!

[jangus]

I'm guessing somebody has already said this but there are a wide array of sounds you can achieve using rimshots; they aren't just for POWER. They can be used effectively to give your solos more shape, and more "melody."

[bobdadruma]

I'm guessing somebody has already said this but there are a wide array of sounds you can achieve using rimshots; they aren't just for POWER. They can be used effectively to give your solos more shape, and more "melody."
Nice TRY! Yea, we've been there and done that! Keep on thinking, You may come up with something. I know that you can do it! Bring it on. Were going for the record here. This is great! I know that there must be something left that hasn't been touched on yet. Come on gang. How about the ladies, Surely they must have something to say about Rim Shots. I'M JUST KIDDING! I enjoyed this. Please don't take this seriously. I have a weird sense of humor. I don't mean anything by It. I'm really miffed that the band Phish was brought into this , that was a low blow, I'm a former Hippy, and I still play in a jam band from time to time. That's not fair! All music is respected here.

[jonescrusher]

Nice TRY! Yea, we've been there and done that! Keep on thinking, You may come up with something. I know that you can do it! Bring it on. Were going for the record here. This is great! I know that there must be something left that hasn't been touched on yet. Come on gang. How about the ladies, Surely they must have something to say about Rim Shots. I'M JUST KIDDING! I enjoyed this. Please don't take this seriously. I have a weird sense of humor. I don't mean anything by It.


Nothing wrong with reading a post back after writing it and using the backspace button....

[caddywumpus]

Nothing wrong with reading a post back after writing it and using the backspace button....

Besides the backspace button, there's also the "delete this post" button...

Here's something new, but I don't know if it's a good "discussion" piece. When listening to older jazz records, I sometimes can't tell if they're doing a stick shot or a rim shot. Do any of the rock drummers here ever play stick shots as part of your fills and such? I'm curious...

[bobdadruma]

STOP PLEASE! YOUR KILLING ME! I"m laughing so hard that my sides ache! My drum, instructor never warned me about this!
I LOVE YOU MAN!

[Der Februar]

Do any of the rock drummers here ever play stick shots as part of your fills and such? I'm curious...

Is a stick shot when you hold one stick on a drumhead and then hit that stick with your other instead of hitting the drumhead? If so, then I do them from time to time.

[Wavelength]

When listening to older jazz records, I sometimes can't tell if they're doing a stick shot or a rim shot. Do any of the rock drummers here ever play stick shots as part of your fills and such? I'm curious...

Stick shots are fairly easy to hear. They tend to sound bright and thin as opposed to rim shots, which sound full and fat. I don't remember seeing or hearing a rock drummer using this sound.

[caddywumpus]

Stick shots are fairly easy to hear. They tend to sound bright and thin as opposed to rim shots, which sound full and fat. I don't remember seeing or hearing a rock drummer using this sound.

You would think that they'd be easy to discern, but on some of the really early stuff when the recording gear wasn't that great, I have a hard time telling sometimes. From about the 50's on, however, it's a piece of cake. And yes, I hear both often, so I disagree with the whole "rimshots aren't for jazz" argument.

So, any other stick shot users in the rock idiom?

[DrummerAz]

this thread is...wow...some people are severely misinformed...


i'd compare using rimshots in your playing, to using headlights when you're driving a car....certainly not always necessary, but look at all the advantages when they're being used! and what an integral part of a drummer's sound! it's so important to master the quietest ghost notes , all the way up to the loudest rimshots (which take barely ANY effort!) and everything in between. Otherwise, your dynamics are rather limited, and you're certainly not using your drums anywhere near their potential.

headlights are always necessary when driving in the dark

[SickRick]

now about those bands you listed (you typed 2 times phish) i do actually have some of them on my pc but not that i listen to that much (actually it belongs to my dads collection) but i listen to iron maiden, metallica, megadeth, children of bodom, morbid angel, slayer, rotting christ, ensiferum, kalmah and that "stuff"...

These are the bands you have on your PC and you think none of them use Rimshots? Man, you've got to be either deaf or you have no clue how a rimshot actually sounds like in a production.

This thread is actually quite funny. I just read it aigan and I have one question directed towards Class_A: Do you still think the same way today or have you changed your point of view? Since your first posts in this thread must be more than a year old, I'd be really interested in this. Would be cool to hear a reply.

[mrchattr]

hmm .. audience will not be able to describe something like you did but they would sure say "wow that was a heck of a complex beat! i bet hes awesome drummer!!!" ...but when its a rimshot in more mainstream music (you know... the type of music that 80% of worlds population listens to) wont even notice it.

now about those bands you listed (you typed 2 times phish) i do actually have some of them on my pc but not that i listen to that much (actually it belongs to my dads collection) but i listen to iron maiden, metallica, megadeth, children of bodom, morbid angel, slayer, rotting christ, ensiferum, kalmah and that "stuff"...

Ok...that stuff uses shots almost all the time. You just don't know what you're hearing when you hear a produced shot. Basically, you are arguing against a technique that most of the drummers you listen to use all the time.

[mrchattr]

You would think that they'd be easy to discern, but on some of the really early stuff when the recording gear wasn't that great, I have a hard time telling sometimes. From about the 50's on, however, it's a piece of cake. And yes, I hear both often, so I disagree with the whole "rimshots aren't for jazz" argument.

So, any other stick shot users in the rock idiom?

I really like the sound they create, but have only found a few places to put them. When I'm playing "Blister In The Sun," I use them for the "dut dut, dut dut" hits (If you know the song, you know what I mean). Overall, it's a sound that I love, but I have only found it works easily in solos...

One thing I love to do, though, is change the angle of the stick, and where you hit it, so that I can end up getting a bunch of different tones...then I play them kind of a like a scale...then I loosen up my grip on the left hand, and (this is hard to explain)...well, I strike the stick, but in a way that creates a diddle on the snare, so that I'm playing straight 16th notes on the snare with the left hand stick, but playing 8th notes ON that stick with my right hand. It's a really cool sound. I think I got it from Portraits In Rhythm, but I really don't remember.

[caddywumpus]

One thing I love to do, though, is change the angle of the stick, and where you hit it, so that I can end up getting a bunch of different tones...then I play them kind of a like a scale...then I loosen up my grip on the left hand, and (this is hard to explain)...well, I strike the stick, but in a way that creates a diddle on the snare, so that I'm playing straight 16th notes on the snare with the left hand stick, but playing 8th notes ON that stick with my right hand. It's a really cool sound. I think I got it from Portraits In Rhythm, but I really don't remember.

I know exactly what you're talking about in both accounts...I do those same things. Sometimes when I take solos, I start pulling out the "stick shot scales", and the other players turn as if to say, "What the...how is he getting that flangey sound out of the snare?". The 16th note thing is great. You can vary your right hand speed to make your left hand shuffle, do flams, do triplets, etc. It's very useful and a crowd pleaser. Plus, the guys that hire you for gigs like to see stuff they've never seen other drummers do. It kind of "sells" you, in the right environments, of course!