New music videos! [Archive] - DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

Auger

10-13-2006, 08:25 PM

Hey man,

you sure play with a lot of energy.

Constructively speaking; The energy's great, but I think if you could develop focus a little more in a studio setting without loosing that energy, it would do a lot for your playing. Some of the playing sounds a little choppy or off to me. Don't get me wrong, I can see your definatly in very much a rock band and that you're going for the show -which is important in that genre, especially live. But, in this studio setting, it sounds to me like some of those big arm movements and how hard you're hitting is costing you in terms of precision and note-placement. Not that precision is the be-all / end-all of drumming (a lot of my favorite drumming is pretty un-precise and sometimes, in my opinion, less precise can be better) but, in this case, I found it distracting from the groove.

I liked your phrasing on the fills too, but I think you could also develop that just a bit more. Some of the more extended ones could have had a better progression to them beginning->fill->resolution, that sort of thing.

Anyway, just trying to be honest/constrcutive -I don't mean to sound overly critical. I'd maybe reccomend checking out Billy Ward's big-time DVD. There's a lot of stuff in there that's good for locking in a groove (his whole 'big-time' concept) and he can really play with a lot of volume/power when he wants to. Also, his phrasing is some of the best there is.

masonni

10-16-2006, 07:19 PM

During these videos I wasn't acctualy tracking any songs. Those had been shot during sound check and as B-Roll footage for my TV show. That's why I am playing with so much energy. That's how I play live.
While really tracking a song I am much more focused, and I don't swing the sticks the same way. I mean, damn can you imagine tracking in the studio for 3 hours and trying to keep that amount of energy up?? hahaha...

Breakaway Faction

10-16-2006, 08:43 PM

Sorry man but I just think you take things way to far. I have read your posts and watch the vid from your clinic and you obviously feel that you are a very talented and technical drummer.......But I have never seen in your playing anything with groove, feel, chops or anything much other then you making goofy faces and swinging like your hittin a baseball.

Not saying that I'm great cause I am definetly not, but I would never do a clinic or post a vid of myself on here because of that reason!

badlydubbedsean

10-16-2006, 09:08 PM

and all of this is going on while small, inexperienced Sean over here thought it was actually PRETTY GOOD and ENTERTAINING and I certainly can't do that. I would learn something from it, and THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

I'm so crap at constructive critisism. I'm no use to you lol!

masonni

10-17-2006, 06:32 PM

I have never seen in your playing anything with groove, feel, chops or anything much other then you making goofy faces and swinging like your hittin a baseball.

Guess you didn't download any MP3's from my website then did ya?

And to be honest... who gives a XXXXXXXXX about chops? Sorry, chops are boring as hell! I don't care how good you are, if you can't entertain people and give them a show, then you should not be in the show biz. And that's what music is! Entertainment!
You want groove and feeling, then download some of my MP3's, you want chops...then find some boring-ass drummer who plays like a XXXXXX

drumzac

10-17-2006, 06:58 PM

Obviously my posts are too much for the people here at Drummerworld. What a shame.

jazzsnob

10-17-2006, 07:15 PM

You know, Nick here makes his living as a musician?

He's shown enough musicians that he is dependable, friendly, has good time and flexible enough to want them to hire him and pay him enough money to survive. And he's in Modern Drummer occassionally.

I know more people who listen to his bands then anyone who listens to anything by dave weckl, thomas lang or ESPECIALLY virgil donati.

Just by the fact that he plays with successful bands that sound together prooves that he has enough groove and musicality to get work, so who cares about chops? Not everyone's goal in drumming is grow up and be Virgil Donati.

So give him some damn slack drumzac. You might have faster hands or more chops or krrrazy ostinato techniques, but Nick is a nice guy and he's MAKING HIS DAMN LIVING PLAYING MUSIC.

So shut up. I "highly suggest you change your outlook on the drumming community."

Having amazing chops and no one cares about your music? Eh, doesn't sound that great to me.

EDIT:And this doesn't make me one of the pocket police either. This doesn't mean I don't think Nick is a technically perfect player or anything. He's a good rock drummer, his technique could be better, but who the hell am I to tell him anything about how his musical voice should sound?

NUTHA JASON

10-17-2006, 07:19 PM

yeah. dudes this is trolling and we don't tollerate it here. and to masoni, keep the vids coming but watch the potty mouth.

j

masonni

10-17-2006, 08:28 PM

yeah. dudes this is trolling and we don't tollerate it here. and to masoni, keep the vids coming but watch the potty mouth.

j

Sorry dude, thanks for the edit with the "xxx"

I have just gotten really sick of how opinionated some people can be.
What ever happend to "if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it"
I have not come out and posted about "how good I am, or famous I am EVER! and All I wanted to do is post some videos for people to watch, but every other person seems to jump on it and tell me how Sh*tty of drummer and person I am. To be honest, I don't think I am an amazing drummer...I have been teaching for over 5 years, and yet I STILL TAKE LESSONS.
I stick to what I know, and I play to what a song calls for.

jazzsnob

10-17-2006, 08:33 PM

Hey man, you have a career and people get jealous. Hell I'm jealous. But troma fans need to stick together.

drumzac

10-17-2006, 08:34 PM

Heaven forbid a forum member speaks his mind...

Mediocrefunkybeat

10-17-2006, 08:52 PM

Nick, I have a lot of respect for you. Clearly you're a good drummer and you're making yourself a good career out of music. Sometimes people get angst at the fact that they've been working years and never got anywhere like half as far as you and it's partly out of frustration and partly self-perpetuating. Frustration doesn't get you gigs.

Now, the playing really wasn't my thing. But, I'm not saying that it was bad, just really not my style. Constructive criticism is ok, but trolling really isn't. As Jazzsnob said; the ultimate honour belongs to you making a living out of what you love doing. More power to you.

EDIT: Auger's post is basically the 'perfect model' for a thread like this to be honest.

mikei

10-17-2006, 10:21 PM

I don't know why people jump on Nick like they do.

They guy is having tons of fun making music and playing the drums for a living.

You know what? Musicians that are technically saavy are constantly condemning others who's abilities are less than theirs.

They really are jealous and frustrated seeing someone else succeeding while they continue to woodshed away by themselves to get better technically. They never work on the performance, entertainment or business side.

Nick, keep doing what your doing. You are a solid rock drummer (at least from what I have seen) and you are entertaining!

drumzac

10-17-2006, 10:24 PM

Again people aren't allowed to have opinions...

jazzsnob

10-17-2006, 10:31 PM

I'm not a chop monster and never would want to be, although I do have the chops if I want to be. I've done drum corps for 15 years. I have extremely versatile hands. If I have to be a prog guy and chop all over a song...I can, if I have to sit in the pocket and groove my butt off, then I can. I love being able to be so versatile and I've worked hard for it.

Well I guess you must be jealous that lots of people listen to nick's music even though you are so superior?

I don't get what you're trying to say. So you work hard and have great chops. Awesome. Still, you will never have the exact same musical voice as Nick, or me or anyone. People like Nick's musical voice enough to hire him, so lay the hell off him.

This is pretty much as silly as people being mad at Meg White(even though nick I think you are lightyears beyond meg white of course). I was talking to this kid who was all kinds of angry that more people know about Meg White than Dave Weckl. The problem is, more people want to listen to the music that she makes than the music he makes. It's very simple. Doesn't mean she's better, so stop complaining.

EDIT:Hey zach, don't sass the mods. free speech isn't necessary on a private internet forum. And forum moderators KNOW what trolling is.

NUTHA JASON

10-17-2006, 10:31 PM

phew. you are a reactive one. very presumptive too. smells like a billy goat bridge your last post. your sarcasm and touchy attitude will definitely shorten your stay here. lighten up. if you cannot take a telling off from me then you should not be here. i never even specifically mentioned you.
this dialogue is over.

back on topic...

j

mattsmith

10-18-2006, 07:43 AM

I have mixed emotions about this thread, in that I agree with most of Auger's technical comments, and strongly disagree with Nick's general assertion that music is only entertainment, while still giving anyone who actually works in music for a living a wide and respectful berth. He most likely came home with a few bucks on Saturday night playing drums, while I went to a movie.

But, in Nick's defense I thought the Suffer Cakes track grooved well for the genre of music being presented, and respectfully disagree with another poster's assertion. I would never go to a show like this, but I'm cool with the way the drumming was handled.

Originally Posted by drumzac
I'm not a chop monster and never would want to be, although I do have the chops if I want to be. I've done drum corps for 15 years. I have extremely versatile hands. If I have to be a prog guy and chop all over a song...I can, if I have to sit in the pocket and groove my butt off, then I can. I love being able to be so versatile and I've worked hard for it.
This post bears no resemblance to some USA style first amendment dare to be different issue. It's merely chocked full of thinly cloaked self promotional assertions, that are out of context with the thread itself. Moreover, people who say I'm not a chop monster and never would want to be, although I do have the chops if I want to be, absolutely always...without exception don't have the chops they think by a wide margin... and really, really, really wish they did. If I'm wrong about this poster, I'll apologize. But he really should post something of his own first. That too is fair.

TitanSound

10-18-2006, 10:35 AM

And whats with editing your posts when someone disagrees with you...man you cannot believe in what you say if you replace it with pity comments about how people are hating on you!!!

Anyways,

Nick....KEEP ON ROCKIN' MAN!!

Its evident that you have fun when you play and to me that comes before technical abilty.

Auger

10-18-2006, 04:11 PM

In my opinion it comes down to this:

be constructive!

which is to say, if you watch a video or listen to a performance someone posts here and you think you can offer suggestions that they will benefit from, even though that may mean being critical of some aspect of their performance, then it's a good thing to give that feedback. You're potentially doing the poster a favor -maybe even helping them spot some weakness that they didn't see. It's the same reason it's good to have someone else proof-read something you've written: it will be easier for them to spot mistakes or things that are unclear.

If you can't think of anything to improve on and you liked what you saw, then that's fine to share that too. Not just because that kind of encouragement feels good, but it also says to the poster that they're on the right track. Basically, your're saying that the poster has gotten it right from what you can see and "keep doing what you're doing -I don't see any flaws that you missed." -it's still guidance. It's proof-reading someone's writing and saying "looks good." -even though you didn't help them fix anything, you've still done something for them. And you're giving encouragement, which is always a good thing because that will only make someone work harder at what they do.

Or, maybe they taught you something, in which case it's good to say thanks.

But, if you just say, more or less, "dude, you suck" that does nothing but make the person who posted their work feel bad. Maybe that's your opinion, but, really ...who cares? You haven't done anything to help this person suck less and, in fact, maybe you've even discouraged them, which might make them worse. Basically, you're not doing anything for anyone but yourself when you make these kinds of posts.

Also, saying things like "I watched your video and x,y,and z sucks in your playing" is a pretty lame response too. Maybe you've pointed out specific things that you feel the player needs to improve on, but you've offered no suggestions to help them do any of it better and you've done so in a mean-spirited way that makes it clear your motivation is not to help them improve, but to get some personal staisfaction from telling them your opinon and, again, ...who cares? Who does this benefit? Only the the person making the mean-spirited comment.

Anyway, sorry to rant.

I think it's great that nick wants to share what he's made with us and I think there's a lot of good in it (looking back, I feel I should have made that point a little more strongly in my original post.) He's got more energy than 9/10 people I see play drums at any skill level and, yeah, I too think it's great that he's got so much joy in his playing.

And, yeah, nick, ...3 hours? ...I'd be shot after playing that way for 3 minutes, hahaha...

Steady Freddy

10-18-2006, 05:23 PM

I guess I have mixed emotions about some of the replies posted in this section of the forum.

One camp supports the position that just because an individual plays a common instrument that we should offer up support. We should be supportive, but lets not blow sunshine just for the sake of doing so. I've seen a large number of videos here that were absolutely horrible. It is my opinion that some of these guys will never become drummers. Sure, they play drums, they probably enjoy it, they may even play at a party or a wedding, but that's going to be the extent of it. For many it will be a self correcting problem. They will move on to other things and in most cases rightfully so.

Another camp takes the position that it's only your opinion and who cares about that? I would counter that by saying It's only your playing, and who cares about that? When an individual posts themselves here performing, they enter the food chain. It's no different from an audition or a performance. People will like it or they won't.

We should be constructive. We should be supportive, but do we do a greater disservice to an individual by blowing sunshine when we know they just don't have it? If the aspiring drummer has no sense of time, they're not going to be a drummer, plain and simple. Now if they want to be a hobby drummer and jam with friends or that type of thing, I say more power to them, but they should realize that they're not going to have a brilliant career as a drummer.

I would submit that we try to keep it real. If the drummers time is all over the landscape, telling them that Hey man, that really grooved may not be in the best interest of that individual. In time this will sort itself out, but at what cost to the individual. Might they wonder why they never get the gigs when all the guys on Drummer World tell them how great they sound?

Reality is very unforgiving.

AAYMMV

mattsmith

10-18-2006, 06:07 PM

When an individual posts themselves here performing, they enter the food chain.
AAYMMV
This is a great point. That's why when I see a thread titled Me just kinda screwing around, or Some mindless garbage I just threw together, so be gentle...I wonder why you posted it to begin with. Once you post it, back it up... with assertions or talking ponts based on what you feel is logical reasoning. But by doing this, it also doesn't mean your thoughts are necessarily correct.

I've been praised and flamed on sites with equal veracity. And because of my WFD relationship, I have experienced public criticism of a personal nature that few would ever know. But as someone once told me What are they going to do? ...take away your birthday?

Take now for instance. I have an out of the genre audio clip that's getting mixed reponse based on the pms I'm getting. All this doesn't mean I don't have a chance in other forms, it only means that the message I am attempting to convey is not consistently registering, for some artistic and/or technical reason. That's a good thing to know. It's also important to note that most things I read on this forum are usually constructive.

mikei

10-18-2006, 06:35 PM

I've seen a large number of videos here that were absolutely horrible. It is my opinion that some of these guys will never become drummers. Sure, they play drums, they probably enjoy it, they may even play at a party or a wedding, but that's going to be the extent of it. For many it will be a self correcting problem. They will move on to other things and in most cases rightfully so.

AAYMMV
Wow. I just don't understand it. What do you mean these guys will never be drummers? They are drummers now. People have different levels of playing abilities. Do you have to pass an exam of some sort to be a drummer? If so, where is it?

People who ask for constructive comments after posting videos should get just that. Also, understand that people who are posting these are proud of what they have done, regardless of skill level. I thought drumming was about having fun.

I saw multiple videos here of new drummers playing basic beats and struggling. It wasn't horrible. It was just a drummer with minimum experience learning. Perhaps for someone playing just a year or two, it was actually good. For these people, they have accomplished something and are growing.

Think about it. Would you call a child an idiot for stumbling over a couple of words in a book? Especially if the child was 5 or 6 years old? I hope not. They are learning. And although you and I can read fluently, they might be doing incredibly well for their age.

Should I quit drumming because I will never have the technical ability of Derrick Pope (You are awesome!)? If I practiced 10 hours a day for 10 years, I would be happy with just a quarter of his skill. I don't have the genetics to be a great musician. But that doesn't mean that I can't groove, play in a band, write good music and have fun.

Let me ask you a question. Should a business VP or executive look down on mechanics or waiters or ditch diggers due to their place in the food chain? Of course not. People have different levels of skill in all facets of life.

Try not to have your nose to high up in the air.

HardcoreLogo

10-18-2006, 07:19 PM

I think many great points are raised here, but I think we are taking this forum a little too serious......."food chain", do you think anyone will quit drums because of what maybe said here? Just as there drummers of all levels and abilities here, and rightly so, there are many reasons for posting here........some want to promote themselves, or a band or product, get praise from other drummers or most important, advise! I do think it's kinda lame to put on a clip and then get ticked when people give there opinion, in fact I think people are almost too nice, so I agree with that angle, and some people have there heads in clouds and need to told the truth, not to bash, but help them see the whole picture and get to the next level. I think DW is one of the most supportive and cunstructive forums for ALL players of any level that I have seen on the net.
I can only speak for myself when I say that I see DW as an amazing resourse to get meaningful insight and inspiration to help break rutts.........I admit I have never put "polished" clips of myself on here for a reason, I want help with my weeknesses! I just don't care about the "foodchain" aspect. I feel "off the cuff" recordings show the real deal, no excuses.............I'm not suggesting that I really play amazing and am using the old "I play it better at home" excuse, but, I could post a clip of me playing with one of the songs I've played a thousand times or take a few months and put together a "soloistic" clip, but then I have to consider if it would be anything new or exciting that anyone would really care about. Since I'm not a soloistic type drummer, the answer would be, for me, a big fat no......so for now I use DW as a stepping stone to get to the next level, and that means putting myself out there not saying "look at me!!!" but rather "help me!!!",,,,,,,but that's just me, I do enjoy all the clips I have seen, you just have to be real about where you are ............

mattsmith

10-18-2006, 07:36 PM

I don't pretend to speak for Steady Freddy, But I think what we have here is a terminology misunderstanding. Out of fairness, I'll try to break this down point for point.

=mikeiWow. I just don't understand it. What do you mean these guys will never be drummers? They are drummers now. People have different levels of playing abilities. Do you have to pass an exam of some sort to be a drummer? If so, where is it?
No you don't pass an exam to be a drummer, but those who post on Internet sites aren't doing it to live a fantasy. Hobbyist musicians post on a hyper critical drum forum to seek validation, and most times positive validation at that. BTW, there is nothing wrong with anyone who plays for fun. But should they expect the same considerations as those who try to do it for real? This is a question to your first question. But in the spirit of discussion, I would be interested in your comments. IMO What do you mean these guys will never be drummers? means they do not strive for the highest professional standard. This does not mean you have to be there now, only that you have no interest in attaining that level.

People who ask for constructive comments after posting videos should get just that. Also, understand that people who are posting these are proud of what they have done, regardless of skill level. I thought drumming was about having fun.
You are right. But sometimes those constructive comments are not what the hobbyist desires because most times they come on these sites expecting to be elevated. I am somewhat piqued and confused about the Also, understand that people who are posting these are proud of what they have done, regardless of skill level comment. If I had my young cousin try to fix a Corvette, I'm betting she would have a great time doing that, and would be proud of her work. But she will most likely tear up the car. So, should I allow her to do that? And more importantly should I offer praise for a job not well done? I think for a lot of people music is very serious business deserving of more respect than this. And this is in no way is a poor reflection on my cousin who I think a great deal of. As far as the having fun part, why can't the fun be the quest to attain your highest possible standard?

I saw multiple videos here of new drummers playing basic beats and struggling. It wasn't horrible. It was just a drummer with minimum experience learning. Perhaps for someone playing just a year or two, it was actually good. For these people, they have accomplished something and are growing.
We agree here.

Think about it. Would you call a child an idiot for stumbling over a couple of words in a book? Especially if the child was 5 or 6 years old? I hope not. They are learning. And although you and I can read fluently, they might be doing incredibly well for their age.
No, everybody wants to back up the learning curve of young children. But don't you get tired of those parents who talk about their kids like they are the center of the universe, when all they're doing is what everybody else their age is capable of? Why do we have to praise people simply because they exist?

Should I quit drumming because I will never have the technical ability of Derrick Pope (You are awesome!)? If I practiced 10 hours a day for 10 years, I would be happy with just a quarter of his skill. I don't have the genetics to be a great musician. But that doesn't mean that I can't groove, play in a band, write good music and have fun.
No, but at least striving to be on Derrick's level is a very worthwhile goal, whether you get there or not.

Let me ask you a question. Should a business VP or executive look down on mechanics or waiters or ditch diggers due to their place in the food chain? Of course not. People have different levels of skill in all facets of life.
Now this point was the one that especially gave me pause because I felt it was out of context. We are not talking about the type of work people do, but the quality they strive to attain in whatever avocation they select. Personally I don't see any difference between the greatest ditch digger in the world and the greatest drummer in the world. Both have attained a similar standard. Both have contributed something necessary and worthwhile...and both are credits to their professions and society as a whole.

With respect, I would then ask if your final sentence is not worth at least a little continued analysis?

Steady Freddy

10-18-2006, 07:40 PM

Wow. I just don't understand it. What do you mean these guys will never be drummers? They are drummers now. People have different levels of playing abilities. Do you have to pass an exam of some sort to be a drummer? If so, where is it?

We are tested everyday in every facet of our lives. We are tested on the job. In our relationships and every time a musician takes to the stage or studio he is being tested. If they are asked back they pass. If not they have failed the test at that given moment in time.

Would you consider a med school student a doctor? I doubt that they would. Not until they have graduated and completed an internship. Why would it be different for musicians. Dose owning a drum set make you a drummer? How about mindlessly banging away on it? I submit that if one makes a living playing drums then they are in fact a drummer. Others may play drums or be students of the drum, but I don't think they are really drummers yet.

If I were to ask you what you did for a living and you replied I'm a drummer I would assume that was how you made your living. If I asked what you did for fun and you said, I play drums, that would be a different deal altogether.

I thought drumming was about having fun.

I thought it was about creating a rhythm. The purpose of drums is to create music. It may be fun but that is a side benefit.

I saw multiple videos here of new drummers playing basic beats and struggling. It wasn't horrible. It was just a drummer with minimum experience learning. Perhaps for someone playing just a year or two, it was actually good. For these people, they have accomplished something and are growing.

That's really pretty subjective. So would you consider learning to play the drums the same as being a drummer?

Think about it. Would you call a child an idiot for stumbling over a couple of words in a book? Especially if the child was 5 or 6 years old? I hope not.

Of course not, but I wouldn't consider them a literary scholar either. I guess my point is you have the gift or you don't. Some have it more than others. Sadly some don't have it at all.

Should I quit drumming because I will never have the technical ability of Derrick Pope (You are awesome!)? If I practiced 10 hours a day for 10 years, I would be happy with just a quarter of his skill. I don't have the genetics to be a great musician. But that doesn't mean that I can't groove, play in a band, write good music and have fun.

I don't know if you should quit or not. Ultimately that is completely up to you. You don't have to have incredible chops to play music. Look at Charlie Watts and Ringo. But they had some serious groove.

Let me ask you a question. Should a business VP or executive look down on mechanics or waiters or ditch diggers due to their place in the food chain? Of course not. People have different levels of skill in all facets of life.

Who's looking down at anyone? Let me as you this: Would the VP ask the laborer for help with corporate decisions? Yes we all have our place and understanding where we fit in can be useful.

Try not to have your nose to high up in the air.

I didn't feel my post was condescending. I'm sorry if you did. The truth be told I don't consider my self a drummer. I play drums, and yeah it's fun, but until someone's is paying me to do that I'm just a struggling student of the instrument like most of the guys on here.

mattsmith

10-18-2006, 08:00 PM

Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.

Freddy I love your signature. For me it says it all, and brings great clarity to this discussion.

badlydubbedsean

10-18-2006, 08:19 PM

guys, if your going to post an amateur video on this forum, don't put any of your own opinion in the title or your introduction to the video. it'll just backfire. accept any critisism. If you are an amateur, it'll be helpful. If you are a professional and you're doing great, don't post videos, cos u dont need help and dont need to show off, or post videos to show what you do in a gig, and things that might help other people. yes Freddy is right, if you can't get it wrong then you don't need people to discuss your abilities, because the money's coming and you're doing fine. an amateur will have to accept the critisism, which, in any form, is constructive, because it shows how you can improve.

myself, I thought the video was entertaining. if Nick is doing a clinic then obviusly someone thinks his playing is good, and if he's a professional, then maybe there's more to his playing than the vid shows.

For drumzac, I can see his point. he disagrees with Nick. that is the end of the story. Let's face it, I bet the two of them would never be best friends. does that matter if they never meet eachother.

Another thing is that good music is written by those who can't necasarily play instruments that well, but know the instruments and their sound, and which sounds go best together. Writing music is not a skill, it's something u can learn.

The final thingy i want to say is that all of these posts in this thread apply, pretty much, to this thread only. I'm sure Nick isn't a complete snob about his playing, and drumzac's bad name applies only in this thread. Maybe Nick shouldn't have his nose so high in the air, but so far, his nose only sticks up in this thread. Anyone want to argue?

EDIT: GRRRRRRRRRR!

mattsmith

10-18-2006, 08:42 PM

guys, if your going to post an amateur video on this forum, don't put any of your own opinion in the title or your introduction to the video. it'll just backfire. accept any critisism. If you are an amateur, it'll be helpful. If you are a professional and you're doing great, don't post videos, cos u dont need help and dont need to show off. Anyone want to argue?
No argument, just a contention...

I personally find it refreshing when I read how someone intelligently explains what they are trying to do, whether I agree with them or not. People come on this forum from all different experience and/or retention levels. Mine for instance is somewhere in the middle. IMO having everyone just wantonly comment blindly is like giving everyone a gun and saying Shoot! Some people will bag a 12 point buck. But far too many will only shoot an innocent.

Now if someone posts: Hey, this is some worthless stuff I did messin' around with some friends, and we were drunk, but my girlfriend said post this because she thought this would be cool, but be gentle and not give me negative comments...Then, well...I understand your position.

I also love posts from pros because it's great to see things done the right way. Besides if you are a pro, I think showing off for us is way down on their to do list. It's rarely their point at all.

mikei

10-18-2006, 08:55 PM

Musicians will be musicians.

Look, Kurt Kobain was not a good guitarist. As a matter of fact, he never tried to reach the highest professional standard as a musician. Does that mean he is not a guitarist?

As far as the med student / doctor reference. You cannot compare medicine to drumming. There is no standard for drumming in order to be considered a drummer.

As far as someone learning to drum be a drummer, that is subjective. But yes, I would consider that person a drummer. Not a great drummer, but a drummer none the less. Until there is an objective measurement, it cannot be a subjective bar that needs to be passed.

As far as the literary scholar reference, it wasn't asked to be compared to that. It was meant to mean "if the child cannot read as good as you, should you not think that they are a reader? That what they achieved by reading is a good job perhaps for their level?"

I started laughing at the corvette reference! Spit my diet coke all over my shirt at work. I don't think someone learning the drums is equivilant to a child fixing a corvette.

Again, trying to play to the highest standard, is subjective. For me, I have a wife, kids and career. I don't have the time to practice to become like Derrick. Also, for me to have that pipe dream to achieve his skill level is obsurd. You should set goals that you can realistically meet. If I practice basketball nonstop for 10 years, I will never be able to play like Jordan. Why would I set a goal for myself like that? I would want to achieve short, mid and long term goals that can be met.

I played guitar for 20 years and realize that musicians are just that. Most are very judgemental.

mattsmith

10-18-2006, 09:22 PM

[QUOTE=mikei]Musicians will be musicians.
Look, Kurt Kobain was not a good guitarist. As a matter of fact, he never tried to reach the highest professional standard as a musician. Does that mean he is not a guitarist?
Supposedly according to those who knew Cobain, he didn't give a rip about how well he played the guitar, but was very serious about being a high end composer. Therefore he was serious about attaining the highest musical standard... just not as a guitarist. John Lennon was much the same way. His guitar playing sucked too. This doesn't take away from the fact that he was among the most influential song writers of the 20th Century.

As far as the med student / doctor reference. You cannot compare medicine to drumming. There is no standard for drumming in order to be considered a drummer.
I would also contend that judging by the quality of some doctors, certain medical school standards must be subjective as well. There is certainly a long standing way of evaluating who is drumming. History will prove this, making certain aspects of this discussion irrelative at least for now.

As far as someone learning to drum be a drummer, that is subjective. But yes, I would consider that person a drummer.
Many would consider that person an owner of drums who ocassionally sits behind them and does interesting things with sticks.

Not a great drummer, but a drummer none the less. Until there is an objective measurement, it cannot be a subjective bar that needs to be passed.
agreed...see above.

I started laughing at the corvette reference! Spit my diet coke all over my shirt at work. I don't think someone learning the drums is equivilant to a child fixing a corvette.
They are identical references if music is taken as seriously as auto repair.

I played guitar for 20 years and realize that musicians are just that. Most are very judgemental.
True, Yet I find this especially true of those who see music as a hobby, not be taken as seriously as work that applies to building bridges and moving objects from one place to the other. All serve valuable purposes and share equal importance... seriously.

DogBreath

10-18-2006, 09:38 PM

mattsmith

10-18-2006, 09:45 PM

DogBreath how about this?

Divide the Your Playing section into an Amateur/for Fun section where you have the kind of replies like Hey I like red drums...I dig your sweater in that vid etc... and a Drumming Projects section that would be treated more seriously in an evaluative context...and could be used for the pros on the board to announce their new stuff. This way there aren't any misunderstandings regarding purpose or conjecture.

Stu_Strib

10-18-2006, 10:10 PM

We should be constructive. We should be supportive, but do we do a greater disservice to an individual by blowing sunshine when we know they just don't have it?

Reality is very unforgiving.

I couldn't agree more. If someone makes a counting/timing mistake and I point it out, they should learn from that and not get defensive. (For example, in one of the videos on here, Nick loses track of time and adds a beat, unless of course, he was TRYING to play a 5/4 bar).

For us to say, "hey, not my bag" with all the flailing and pounding drumming...it is merely that...an opposing philosophy of drums and music. Why should that be off limits? Nick would probably hate my reserved, simple drumming, and I would have no qualms of him criticizing my lack of energy, emotion or feel. I also am not going to change, nor is Nick, so basically the whole point of a discussion forum is to talk about drums and drumming, with some agreeing and some disagreeing, and nobody changing. ;-)

Stu_Strib

10-18-2006, 10:12 PM

So... back on subject. Nice vids, but I think I would have introduced them with something like "Here I am just messing around on my set." That might have kept some of the silly comments that followed from being posted.

Yes I agree. I think we were setup to expect something very polished and professional, and instead we get your average rock drumming, complete with timing issues. I think it is all relative to how you frame a discussion, and in this case, it could have stood for some truth in advertising (i.e. "just messing around").

Breakaway Faction

10-19-2006, 01:38 AM

I couldn't agree more. If someone makes a counting/timing mistake and I point it out, they should learn from that and not get defensive. (For example, in one of the videos on here, Nick loses track of time and adds a beat, unless of course, he was TRYING to play a 5/4 bar).

For us to say, "hey, not my bag" with all the flailing and pounding drumming...it is merely that...an opposing philosophy of drums and music. Why should that be off limits? Nick would probably hate my reserved, simple drumming, and I would have no qualms of him criticizing my lack of energy, emotion or feel. I also am not going to change, nor is Nick, so basically the whole point of a discussion forum is to talk about drums and drumming, with some agreeing and some disagreeing, and nobody changing. ;-)

I agree.....but just don't hit my drums like that Nick.....hum who said that!

DogBreath

10-20-2006, 08:39 PM

Stay on topic. Send a PM for a personal conversation. Thanks.

drumzac

10-20-2006, 09:27 PM

Just doesn't cease to amaze me...

masonni

11-07-2006, 11:10 AM

Yes I agree. I think we were setup to expect something very polished and professional, and instead we get your average rock drumming, complete with timing issues. I think it is all relative to how you frame a discussion, and in this case, it could have stood for some truth in advertising (i.e. "just messing around").

Did anyone notice that along with the videos of me messing around, I also had a professional music video posted in this thread? Hence the title "new music videos"...

Here, allow me to post again...

http://www.nickmason.org/videos/Suffer Cake.wmv

Here is another one...

http://www.nickmason.org/videos/blackmagicmarker.wmv

Drum-Head

11-07-2006, 01:52 PM

Nick,

The following is not an attempt to bash you, but a simple analysis of the situation here by just another guy.

In my opinion, the problem is that the guys here are simply confused. This because you present yourself as being a professional level drummer, but your actual playing does not reflect this level which is exposed on your website. In short, the packaging does not seem to correspond with the actual product if I may say.

All powers to you to be making a living out of music, that is great, sincerely. But even though I understand that being a pro (as in playing for income) you have to set some publicity for yourself (your website bio (http://www.nickmason.org/bio.html)) you're being shown as some exceptional drummer whilst in reality, I'm sorry to say and I do not think of this in a mean way, your videos do not reflect this factor. This is why you come off to certain people as "cocky."

This is, in my opinion, where all the problem is coming from.

Peace out and take care,
Christopher.

gaspesien

11-17-2006, 09:17 AM

I guess this shows one point, take my exemple : I'm gigging around while i work my day job, thinking Hey, when i'll be good enough i might do this full time.

While Nick might think, i wanna do this full time, so there y'a go. It takes a lot of balls to pull it off, especially when a Lot of other guys could do it just as good. But they don't take the step, like I. So Great job Nick, you're a brave man!

timebandit

11-20-2006, 12:28 AM

Jusstickinaround

11-20-2006, 04:27 AM

My dad use to call guys like you a hotdog, lots of attitude and emotion with little skill to back it up. You're not the only one, there are plenty of drummers out ther making lots of money with not much technical ability. On the other hand some musicians actually play and learn technique because they want to be the best they can be, regardless if they make a living at it or if they sell a million albums. In my opinion, I'd rather have great skill at what I do and not as much fame rather than having more fame and less skill. I love the drums so much and want to be the best I can be knowing at my age I will never make a living at it. Not because a lack of skill, but rather not doing what I should have done when I was younger. But regardless, if your making a living at it playing like that, more power to you.

Drum-Head

11-20-2006, 02:34 PM

Hey Nick, Just checked out your site.Checked out all your stuff.That video with Mad Yellow sun was pretty tite!! Your drummin' sounds just as proffesional and well executed as any other rock drummer. As far as the bashin' from the other guys, just thier opinion, and you know what they say about opinions! Everybody has one.

With all respect to Nick, I find it hard to believe that those recordings were not quantized in Pro-Tools (or a similar program). In the clinic videos, his tempo was floating over the sample/songs that were being played, whilst in those recordings his drumming is rock solid. The difference between the two is drastic, at least enough to be puzzled...

Schnitzel

11-20-2006, 04:41 PM

i did not read every post but the first five were kind of hostile.

well, i think the problem was that you seemed like you try to show off with your playing, which aint work without amazing chops or cool grooves!!! and many people (including me) dislike people who think they're awesome and in fact are not!!!

whatever! im not trying to offend anyone!!!

TopCat

11-20-2006, 05:01 PM

This is Rock and Roll baby. Who gives a rats ass?

15yroldvirgin

11-20-2006, 11:53 PM

nice stuff dude!

its cool to see a drummer like you who doesnt exactly care about chops and rudiments, but cares more about putting on a great show!

keep up the great work and just play how you want, now how some dumbfarks tell you to

15yroldvirgin

11-20-2006, 11:56 PM

Jusstickinaround

11-21-2006, 04:01 AM

d.c.drummer

11-21-2006, 04:32 AM

OMG, losers will be losers. Don't sweat the haters, masonni. I like your stuff and your playing style. The guy who got this whole ball rolling is not a Buddy Rich himself so I dont know why he tried to deflate you like that.

I think its good stuff, i like the energy. I think this criticism is way out of hand. You didn't pump yourself up to be the best drummer since gene krupa so i dont know why everyone is saying that you sounded conceited. I think some are jealous becasue you are the real mckoy and they are stuck in their basement pounding out paradiddles (not that that is bad). I like the vids and keep 'em coming.

p.s. the heck with "technical ability". in the music world, if you can play well enough sell albums, you win (not the guy with swiss-ratamacues) !!!
people say travis barker has no technique..... but he has a large house, fast cars and plays drums for a living.

timebandit

11-21-2006, 06:34 AM

With all respect to Nick, I find it hard to believe that those recordings were not quantized in Pro-Tools (or a similar program). In the clinic videos, his tempo was floating over the sample/songs that were being played, whilst in those recordings his drumming is rock solid. The difference between the two is drastic, at least enough to be puzzled...Then put up then? Nick did!

morbius25

11-22-2006, 09:10 PM

Sorry dude, thanks for the edit with the "xxx"

I have just gotten really sick of how opinionated some people can be.
What ever happend to "if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it"

Well Nick I have to say that I think you are a good drummer. I also have to say that you posted these videos on here for what......? For us to have something to do with 5 mins of our lives. Did you think we would all be cookie cutter and say good job, keep it up, only to turn around and say it sucked. The beauty of an opinion is, that its mine. You think you don't need chops to be good, some of us do. I watched the video of your band, I have to say, something different would make me stay for a show. But the way it is would make me get up and walk out (scratch that) I wouldn't have a bought a ticket. Now the second part of your quote there. That flipped back on you. You totally went off on dude for saying something about you when I have heard said (in the bible) "do on to others as you would have them do on to you." I know a lot of people think the bible is overrated, I don't. You had nothing nice to say to him at all, yet, you said it. You want him to be nice to you, you should have said thanks for your opinion. The world hasn't gotten opionated, its always been this way, its the people that feel that they have the right to shut peoples opinions up.

Like I said Nick, your a great drummer, you have a great feel for music. And Nick I am not trying to bust your "chops" (Not drum chops) I just felt I had something to say about the whole thing. I am not trying to make you mad at me, nor anyone else on here. Again, I am entitled to MY opinion if no one likes it, fine, thats yours. My point was the what I quoted you on.

morbius25

11-22-2006, 09:37 PM

well lets say that your band becomes famous with a drummer that has a ton of passion and that can play well...

are you saying that if this was you, you would say: sorry dudes I care more about myself and my skill than our band, so im gonna quit this band so i can learn how to do a quintiplequadratipleliptlet paradiddlefiddleshizzle...

Ok lets look at some bands shall we....?

TOOL- Happens to be my favorite band. Do you think if Danny Carey couldn't do all 40
rudiments with hands and feet that they would be a great band with an amazing drummer.
They would be a band, but I bet no one would know who Danny Carey is.

Rush- Yeah same as TOOL man. Neil who?

Now, I think if you want to be sucessful and this is a word I have seen maybe once in this whole thing, you might want to care about talent, or skill, or chops. Look at Green Jello...
Where the hell are they now? My point is bands that have no skill, or talent seem to fall flat of the face of the planet. So yes, I think some skill helps. Rudiments are important, they help put hair on your chest.

Womble

11-22-2006, 10:33 PM

Then put up then? Nick did!

Like he did here? http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19660

timebandit

11-27-2006, 01:34 AM

Like he did here? http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19660

Yeah well, not bad. I'm the 1rst to give credit where credit is due. As I did for Nick, I will do as well , for Drumhead.The song was'nt to bad, and the drumming served the song. Nice job..........BUT! If I were to look it as drumhead seemed to look at Nick, in total honest crituqe fashion I would say, the drumming was actually kinda weak, there was nothing very creative, and absolutely nothing complex about it. As a matter of fact, it totally lacked any real feel or passion at all. But, again, it served the song well. And, when I went to click on the link, I was'nt expecting some drum god, so it was'nt a major disapointment when I did. The samme goes for Nick, was'nt expecting Thomas Lang, So hearing a nice solid rock beat that served the song did just fine. Whatever, I don't meen to be dissin' anybody!

dom

11-27-2006, 06:08 AM

first off i really liked the videos. Your drumming great my cup a tea.

for everyone bashing for lack of chops and what not, being a pro has little to do with that. That is how it seems to me. From what i understood in the latest modern drummer Zak Starkey just recently learned about doubles and paradiddles. Stewart Copeland and many other famous drummers say they have or had problems with speeding up. Just because you have flaws in you playing doesnt mean you are not good. now nick is great for the type of music he is playing and i love it. It seems to me like he is what some of us dream of and there may be a few people jealous.

anyway great job nick i really enjoyed the clenic videos on your site.

Drum-Head

11-27-2006, 11:53 AM

Yeah well, not bad. I'm the 1rst to give credit where credit is due. As I did for Nick, I will do as well , for Drumhead.The song was'nt to bad, and the drumming served the song. Nice job..........BUT! If I were to look it as drumhead seemed to look at Nick, in total honest crituqe fashion I would say, the drumming was actually kinda weak, there was nothing very creative, and absolutely nothing complex about it. As a matter of fact, it totally lacked any real feel or passion at all. But, again, it served the song well. And, when I went to click on the link, I was'nt expecting some drum god, so it was'nt a major disapointment when I did. The samme goes for Nick, was'nt expecting Thomas Lang, So hearing a nice solid rock beat that served the song did just fine. Whatever, I don't meen to be dissin' anybody!

If that is your opinion about my drumming that's okay - although I do have the impression you are purposely accentuating those details because you do not agree with what I have said about Nick. Whatever the case, it's not important to me.

That being said, you seemed to have totally missed my point about Nick. I never said chops were necessary, I never said busy patterns/grooves were necessary nor anything of the sort.

All my comments are based on the way Nick exposes himself. It's as simple as that - in my opinion his playing is not in adequation with the image he is putting up. To illustrate that, go look at his videos again and then read this (extract from his bio):

"Nick Mason! has grown up with sticks in his hand... Given his first snare drum at age two, he has shown more promise than any drummer of his kind. By age 10 he set out for percussion lessons and has been involved ever since. His first taste of Rock'n'Roll began with the Band Lurid, A melodic Thrash-metal band that started when he was 16 and lasted into his early 20's. By this time Nick became one of the leading drum educators around Western NY. "

Does that make any sense now?

That's my point and opinion about this thread since initially I was only trying to understand and explain why everyone was so harsh with Nick. I doubt anybody would have been hard on him as much as you can read here if he just put up these videos saying "He are videos of me having fun on the kit" don't you think? What IS important to me is that what I am trying to expose is understood the right way. Debating about how much Nick is *insert whatever he is or not here* is not of much importance to me - at the end of the day he is still earning a living doing what he loves.

Regards,
Christopher.

masonni

11-30-2006, 06:19 AM

Ok lets look at some bands shall we....?

TOOL- Happens to be my favorite band. Do you think if Danny Carey couldn't do all 40
rudiments with hands and feet that they would be a great band with an amazing drummer.
They would be a band, but I bet no one would know who Danny Carey is.

Rush- Yeah same as TOOL man. Neil who?

Now, I think if you want to be sucessful and this is a word I have seen maybe once in this whole thing, you might want to care about talent, or skill, or chops. Look at Green Jello...
Where the hell are they now? My point is bands that have no skill, or talent seem to fall flat of the face of the planet. So yes, I think some skill helps. Rudiments are important, they help put hair on your chest.

Guess what? Danny Carey was Green Jello's drummer before he joined TOOL....

You know what everyone? I am sorry for the way I acted in some of my posts here, and it will not happen again. Thank you to anyone who supported me, and to anyone who didn't well, thank you for your opinions. I'll try harder next time, but not for you, for me.

I am not the best drummer around, I don't have amazing chops and my timing can be off when I am not playing with a click. But I put on a show, I am a good teacher and I am having fun.
The next music video I have coming out features adult film star Ron Jeremy, I'll be sure to post it on here when it's done.

Oh and by the way, I forgot who said it, something about how that Mad Yellow Sun music video is all done with Pro Tools... guess what? That's the only song I have recorded in the last 3 years WITHOUT a click track and without fixing a lot in post production, but thanks for the compliment. ;)

morbius25

11-30-2006, 07:09 AM

Guess what? Danny Carey was Green Jello's drummer before he joined TOOL....

You know what everyone? I am sorry for the way I acted in some of my posts here, and it will not happen again. Thank you to anyone who supported me, and to anyone who didn't well, thank you for your opinions. I'll try harder next time, but not for you, for me.

I am not the best drummer around, I don't have amazing chops and my timing can be off when I am not playing with a click. But I put on a show, I am a good teacher and I am having fun.
The next music video I have coming out features adult film star Ron Jeremy, I'll be sure to post it on here when it's done.

Oh and by the way, I forgot who said it, something about how that Mad Yellow Sun music video is all done with Pro Tools... guess what? That's the only song I have recorded in the last 3 years WITHOUT a click track and without fixing a lot in post production, but thanks for the compliment. ;)

Did not know that he was the drummer for them. How cool. I will have to dig that cd out and check it out. I was like 12 when that came out so.....No clue who he was then.

Nick I like the beats you play. They are great beats. I have found myself trying to play some of them. As far as timing, who cares. If we were all perfect at timing, there would be no need for a metronome. Like you said your having fun, what is drums if you can't have fun. Sorry for the crap that I said to you. You are your own person that has your own style. Not everyone cares about the same stuff. Keep it up man, you do a great job at it. Again, sorry Nick....

Esoterik

11-30-2006, 09:01 AM

Hey. I'm new to the forums but watched your videos and wanted to say somethin'.

I liked the "suffer cake" video and it clearly demonstrates that you can keep time and do fills in time as well. But the timing with the other shorter videos wasn't really concrete so they sounded kinda funky

Drum-Head

11-30-2006, 10:55 AM

Guess what? Danny Carey was Green Jello's drummer before he joined TOOL....

You know what everyone? I am sorry for the way I acted in some of my posts here, and it will not happen again. Thank you to anyone who supported me, and to anyone who didn't well, thank you for your opinions. I'll try harder next time, but not for you, for me.

I am not the best drummer around, I don't have amazing chops and my timing can be off when I am not playing with a click. But I put on a show, I am a good teacher and I am having fun.
The next music video I have coming out features adult film star Ron Jeremy, I'll be sure to post it on here when it's done.

Oh and by the way, I forgot who said it, something about how that Mad Yellow Sun music video is all done with Pro Tools... guess what? That's the only song I have recorded in the last 3 years WITHOUT a click track and without fixing a lot in post production, but thanks for the compliment. ;)

Nick,

It was me who referred to Pro Tools as being used, but I was talking about your recordings in general not Mad Yellow Sun in particular. Please don't exaggerate my words - I spoke about quantizing as in tweaks in post prod. not being totally done (as in 95% artificial) with Pro Tools.

Sincerely, it is a great thing that you did not use PT in Mad Yellow Sun. Although you may not believe so and that I have my opinions about your drumming, I DO respect the fact that you earn a living playing drums and that you have much fun doing so.

All the best,
Christopher.

drumzac

11-30-2006, 02:18 PM

I am not the best drummer around, I don't have amazing chops and my timing can be off when I am not playing with a click. But I put on a show, I am a good teacher and I am having fun.

This is hilarious. You don't have amazing chops and your timing can be off, meaning its off quite often, you still think you are a good teacher?

*FOR YOU PEOPLE THAT CAN'T READ* I AM NOT A CHOPS MONSTER, I DON'T LIKE WATCHING PEOPLE CHOP ALL OVER. I LIKE GROOVE AND BACKBEAT...ok had to get that out.

A good teacher would have all the fundamentals down whether it's timing, technique, stick control, rudiments, grooves, etc... A good teacher must have all the necessary tools in place to make his students understand the instrument and excel on that given instrument. A teacher that is half-assed at his instrument will only make that student half-assed, cheating them out of possibilities and hard earned money.

You say you are one of the leading drum educators in Western, NY. That is the funniest thing I've read since...well...your bio. Tim Stodd, Gary Gill, Rick Rogers, Bill McGrath, are all TOP educators from Western to Eastern NY. Funny...I don't see your name or hear your name whenever any of those guys are mentioned.

tamadrummer132

12-02-2006, 02:51 AM

Well I guess you must be jealous that lots of people listen to nick's music even though you are so superior?

I don't get what you're trying to say. So you work hard and have great chops. Awesome. Still, you will never have the exact same musical voice as Nick, or me or anyone. People like Nick's musical voice enough to hire him, so lay the hell off him.

This is pretty much as silly as people being mad at Meg White(even though nick I think you are lightyears beyond meg white of course). I was talking to this kid who was all kinds of angry that more people know about Meg White than Dave Weckl. The problem is, more people want to listen to the music that she makes than the music he makes. It's very simple. Doesn't mean she's better, so stop complaining.

EDIT:Hey zach, don't sass the mods. free speech isn't necessary on a private internet forum. And forum moderators KNOW what trolling is.

i dont agree. drums isnt a tool for making money. drums is something enjoy and love to play, and if i make a few bucks along the way then so be it. the fact is, is that massoni does not play to his maximum capability, and i understand laying low during a song and not overpowering, but on his solo's he did not show any skill that i couldnt have played when i was a 2 year old drummer (not 2 years old, 2 years of playing)

he may have money and a band, but if love drums then u would try to be better, and if u dont love drums then u shouldnt be playing.

tamadrummer132

12-02-2006, 03:04 AM

oh yeah, this thread has to have the most long replys EVER!!! i just read em all.. lol

jazzsnob

12-02-2006, 05:34 AM

i dont agree. drums isnt a tool for making money. drums is something enjoy and love to play, and if i make a few bucks along the way then so be it. the fact is, is that massoni does not play to his maximum capability, and i understand laying low during a song and not overpowering, but on his solo's he did not show any skill that i couldnt have played when i was a 2 year old drummer (not 2 years old, 2 years of playing)

he may have money and a band, but if love drums then u would try to be better, and if u dont love drums then u shouldnt be playing.

You should tell people what drums should mean to them after you take the plunge and suffer a little bit trying to make it as a professional drummer. I'm working with some projects right now that I don't even like, but I have rent to pay and I'm going to do it. If I got the chance to play with the white stripes, even if I had to play those exact parts, you've better be goddamn sure I'd take it.

I bet nick practices as much as he can, and hell, and even if he doesn't want to, that's fine. He's a professional musician and if he feels secure in his place and he's making music that people enjoy, that's all that matters.

Get some perspective man, you have no clue how this guy lives his life and what's important to him.

timebandit

12-02-2006, 06:11 AM

You should tell people what drums should mean to them after you take the plunge and suffer a little bit trying to make it as a professional drummer. I'm working with some projects right now that I don't even like, but I have rent to pay and I'm going to do it. If I got the chance to play with the white stripes, even if I had to play those exact parts, you've better be goddamn sure I'd take it.

I bet nick practices as much as he can, and hell, and even if he doesn't want to, that's fine. He's a professional musician and if he feels secure in his place and he's making music that people enjoy, that's all that matters.

Get some perspective man, you have no clue how this guy lives his life and what's important to him.

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!}:-|

michael drums

12-02-2006, 06:28 AM

michael drums

12-02-2006, 06:32 AM

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!}:-|

Hey, tb! Love that album cover...PW is still an inspiration! Thanks...Play On! ;-)

timebandit

12-02-2006, 06:38 AM

This is hilarious. You don't have amazing chops and your timing can be off, meaning its off quite often, you still think you are a good teacher?

*FOR YOU PEOPLE THAT CAN'T READ* I AM NOT A CHOPS MONSTER, I DON'T LIKE WATCHING PEOPLE CHOP ALL OVER. I LIKE GROOVE AND BACKBEAT...ok had to get that out.

A good teacher would have all the fundamentals down whether it's timing, technique, stick control, rudiments, grooves, etc... A good teacher must have all the necessary tools in place to make his students understand the instrument and excel on that given instrument. A teacher that is half-assed at his instrument will only make that student half-assed, cheating them out of possibilities and hard earned money.

You say you are one of the leading drum educators in Western, NY. That is the funniest thing I've read since...well...your bio. Tim Stodd, Gary Gill, Rick Rogers, Bill McGrath, are all TOP educators from Western to Eastern NY. Funny...I don't see your name or hear your name whenever any of those guys are mentioned.
Ya know, it's funny...... of all your post, here and and at pdf, there is no show of any actual grooves or backbeats or even "chops" per say, posted by you. I can't believe any UPstanding forum member whose so readily critiqal about others playing, would not give us other forum members a chance to, lets say "even the playing field" by posting your best work.

drumzac

12-02-2006, 01:10 PM

Ya know, it's funny...... of all your post, here and and at pdf, there is no show of any actual grooves or backbeats or even "chops" per say, posted by you. I can't believe any UPstanding forum member whose so readily critiqal about others playing, would not give us other forum members a chance to, lets say "even the playing field" by posting your best work.

I've posted playing many times. You just have to search the PDF, it's there. I just don't play that game anymore. I don't feel the need to have a bunch of people on the internet tell me I"m cool and I play great. I know I play great, I know my teachers taught me well, and I have absolutely NOTHING to prove.

jazzsnob

12-02-2006, 08:25 PM

I've posted playing many times. You just have to search the PDF, it's there. I just don't play that game anymore. I don't feel the need to have a bunch of people on the internet tell me I"m cool and I play great. I know I play great, I know my teachers taught me well, and I have absolutely NOTHING to prove.

The thing is, none of this has ANYTHING to do with you "putting up" or "throwing down" or "bringing it on." Nick is no Dave Weckl, and it's entirely possible that you are technically better than him in many or all aspects of drumming. But it doesn't matter, it's similar to a situation I experienced hanging out with some shredder drummers at Berklee last year. They were all talking about how it's unfair that Ringo is so highly lauded when all of them are "better" than him.

example:

"Dude, Ringo really isn't that great"
"For serious man, I definitely have way better doubles than he did."
"He defintely couldn't have played double bass and left foot clave like I can"
me: "Hey guys this is kind of silly."
"hey man, I totally could have played that stuff with the beatles, easily, even better."
Me: "Sucks you weren't there for the audition. I'm sure the beatles would have benefited a lot from left-foot clave."
"hey man, it just sucks because more people know about ringo than tons of way better drummers!"
me: "Well, he was there, he made the music, he made the statements, and if it was good enough for the band, it's good enough for me"
"???"

Even if Nick has some technical stuff to work out, HE is the one that put the time into his band, he made artistic choices that people liked and he is the one who is getting the credit. Ability on the drumset is an aspect of job security, really. You might be more shredder than him, but he's doing fine with how he's doing it and if he is okay with sticking with his group and playing how he does, awesome. You can keep trying to go on with your style, and if you feel like your technique and skill gives you more job security, go for it, but your probably never going to sound exactly like him and you'll probably never steal a gig from him, so just CHILL OUT.

Blue

12-02-2006, 08:35 PM

No, that's not what I meant. When I said I'd rather have more skill than fame, I meant if I had to choose between technique or fame I'd take the technique. Ofcourse I'd stay with my band if we aquired a record deal, I'm not a complete moron.

I would take fame and success.. you can always get better, but to be heard... that's another thing

Blue

12-02-2006, 08:42 PM

i dont agree. drums isnt a tool for making money. drums is something enjoy and love to play, and if i make a few bucks along the way then so be it. the fact is, is that massoni does not play to his maximum capability, and i understand laying low during a song and not overpowering, but on his solo's he did not show any skill that i couldnt have played when i was a 2 year old drummer (not 2 years old, 2 years of playing)

he may have money and a band, but if love drums then u would try to be better, and if u dont love drums then u shouldnt be playing.

Reality check... like someone said, when you rely on drums to pay your rent... the drums ARE your Tool for making money. That may not be WHY you play, and it SHOULD never be that, but it is how you make money if you choose to be a professional musician. That's the luxury of playing drums for fun and being young, and not being professional... there's no financial pressure to play... when you're on your own, and I'm not quite there yet, but working towards it.... and you rely on your drums for you income, then yeah, in a very real sense, you're drums are you're income... and I think its a wonderful thing... of course, a second job is probably a must, but we do what we must

jazzsnob

12-02-2006, 09:05 PM

...I'm not quite there yet, but working towards it... a second job is probably a must...

haha, get used to eating a lot of rice man, beans, eggs, and pasta. it's actually pretty good for you, but you need to learn to cook. If you're going to move out and strike it on your own, save up a couple months worth of rent money first. But you're right on on your points.

drumzac

12-03-2006, 12:11 AM

The thing is, none of this has ANYTHING to do with you "putting up" or "throwing down" or "bringing it on." Nick is no Dave Weckl, and it's entirely possible that you are technically better than him in many or all aspects of drumming. But it doesn't matter, it's similar to a situation I experienced hanging out with some shredder drummers at Berklee last year. They were all talking about how it's unfair that Ringo is so highly lauded when all of them are "better" than him.

example:

"Dude, Ringo really isn't that great"
"For serious man, I definitely have way better doubles than he did."
"He defintely couldn't have played double bass and left foot clave like I can"
me: "Hey guys this is kind of silly."
"hey man, I totally could have played that stuff with the beatles, easily, even better."
Me: "Sucks you weren't there for the audition. I'm sure the beatles would have benefited a lot from left-foot clave."
"hey man, it just sucks because more people know about ringo than tons of way better drummers!"
me: "Well, he was there, he made the music, he made the statements, and if it was good enough for the band, it's good enough for me"
"???"

Even if Nick has some technical stuff to work out, HE is the one that put the time into his band, he made artistic choices that people liked and he is the one who is getting the credit. Ability on the drumset is an aspect of job security, really. You might be more shredder than him, but he's doing fine with how he's doing it and if he is okay with sticking with his group and playing how he does, awesome. You can keep trying to go on with your style, and if you feel like your technique and skill gives you more job security, go for it, but your probably never going to sound exactly like him and you'll probably never steal a gig from him, so just CHILL OUT.

That's just it. I'm not a shredder like Thomas Lang, Mike Portnoy, et al but I can if it's called upon. I'm versatile. That's what it's about.

...again wouldn't a teacher need to have the necessary fundamentals in place to be a credited teacher? From the playing displayed in this thread I hardly doubt his students are getting the best out his lessons. They are being cheated.

I certainly wouldn't get taught by him if I was looking for a teacher. I couldn't justify spending the money for lessons for a half-rate drummer/teacher.

timebandit

12-03-2006, 08:09 AM

[QUOTE=drumzac;245395]I've posted playing many times. You just have to search the PDF, it's there. I just don't play that game anymore. I don't feel the need to have a bunch of people on the internet tell me I"m cool and I play great. I know I play great, I know my teachers taught me well, and I have absolutely NOTHING to prove.[/QUO Nobody said you were cool, and we'll never know how GREAT you play unless you post something.As a matter of fact, i could care-less less how you play.You could be the next Weckl or Peart or even Bonham, you could have all the drumming skills in the world, and it would'nt help you. WHAT you are lacking is PEOPLE SKILLS.Thats probably what got Nick as far as he is, a great attitude and people skills.So instead of offering constructive critisism, and try and offer an opinion that could help a guy futher himself, you just want to knock a brother down, and there's nothin' cool or GREAT about that!