Awful Overtones!

[Drummer Karl]

Yes, I know, and another tuning question...but I really don`t know a solution there.
I tuned my Ambassadors and my 10" and my 14" tom sound soooo clean and sweet BUT my 12" tom sounds just awful! It produces awful overtones and it has not the sweet sustain wich the other two toms have. I know that it is also a psychical problem: The tom next to the ride cymbal always sounds worse".
but how can I get a nice tuning for it? how to tune the batter/reso head to get a nice tone?? are there special techniques?

would be so happy about help!

thanks alot,

Karl

[Mista Bob]

Not really.
You just gotta make sure the heads are in tune with themselves. And also dont forget about how the relation between the two heads will affect sound and resonance.


http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/
Lots of great information on that site, check it out.

[Drummer Karl]

wow Mista Bob! thanks alot for that site, great tips!
...okay, so I just tried it again a few minutes ago...and I just thought that the tuning always changes because sometimes it sounds fairly good but just for a few minutes, then it always turns into an awful sound so I thought about Tune safers! hahaha, I made my own tune safers...
so: doesn`t Tama has their tune safers in the lugs or not? and: will my "Self-maded" tune safers keep the tuning or are they useless?

here is a nice pic (lol)...just put a nut between the lug and the screw:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h84/Drummer_Karl/nut.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h84/Drummer_Karl/nut2.jpg

Karl

[Mista Bob]

What sorta snare is that?
Looks like it has diecast hoops, is it a starclassic?
Eitherway it shouldint be going out of tune that fast.

Are you always tuning up? You should always tune up to get the desired pitch, never down.
If you gotta go down, go below the pitch you want than tune up to it.
And tuning the head in a nice even fashion, going around in a star pattern.
As long as your doing those, there shouldint be any fast de-tuning. If there is and you are doing those, than I wouldint know whats going on with the snare.

And as for those 'tune savers' yours, I'd personally be iffy putting them on my snare. Plus I cant imagine them doing much anyways.

[Drummer Karl]

What sorta snare is that?
Looks like it has diecast hoops, is it a starclassic?
Eitherway it shouldint be going out of tune that fast.

Are you always tuning up? You should always tune up to get the desired pitch, never down.
If you gotta go down, go below the pitch you want than tune up to it.
And tuning the head in a nice even fashion, going around in a star pattern.
As long as your doing those, there shouldint be any fast de-tuning. If there is and you are doing those, than I wouldint know whats going on with the snare.

And as for those 'tune savers' yours, I'd personally be iffy putting them on my snare. Plus I cant imagine them doing much anyways.

yeah, I know...those nuts are just on my 12" tom now...if I put two of those on one screw it should work...I think.
again thank you for that site...good tips on it, I also found another tuning bible like this, there is also tom tuning. My snare drum works well for me, there I havn`t got any de-tuning, I`m just afraid that my toms get de-tuning because I`m a pretty petty guy with tuning and I`m a person who just plays with every emotion if the drums are tuned perfectly for me. I know pretty much about tuning till now i think...just my 12" tom didn`t work for me at all but now this problem is solved I think.

thanks alot!

PS: I`ve got a Tama Superstar Custom 5-piece Fusion drum set...

Karl =)

[bamadrummer]

Referring to the 12" tom, it is very possible that you may have a slightly bent rim. One of my kits has one right now and I just havent fixed it. This issue can cause not only overtones, but tonal problems as well. My 12" almost sounds like a cheap mahogony kit rather than maple.

Also, I have had my snare drum to detune at low tunings. Are the rods that are loose near your primary backbeat hand? If so, hard backbeats are likely the cause. I find that if you just notice it and tighten them as needed, the problem is minor.

Hope this helps!!!

[Just Drums]

Referring to the 12" tom, it is very possible that you may have a slightly bent rim. One of my kits has one right now and I just havent fixed it. This issue can cause not only overtones, but tonal problems as well. My 12" almost sounds like a cheap mahogony kit rather than maple.

Also, I have had my snare drum to detune at low tunings. Are the rods that are loose near your primary backbeat hand? If so, hard backbeats are likely the cause. I find that if you just notice it and tighten them as needed, the problem is minor.

Hope this helps!!!

The best suggestion yet. Make sure your rims and your bearing edge is perfectly flat and level. Lay both on a sheet of glass or something perfectly level and take a look at them.

[ghuyuiq]

wow Mista Bob! thanks alot for that site, great tips!
...okay, so I just tried it again a few minutes ago...and I just thought that the tuning always changes because sometimes it sounds fairly good but just for a few minutes, then it always turns into an awful sound so I thought about Tune safers! hahaha, I made my own tune safers...
so: doesn`t Tama has their tune safers in the lugs or not? and: will my "Self-maded" tune safers keep the tuning or are they useless?

here is a nice pic (lol)...just put a nut between the lug and the screw:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h84/Drummer_Karl/nut.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h84/Drummer_Karl/nut2.jpg

Karl

How the hell could those bolts help your tuning??
The only thing they could do is prevent the screws to go deeper (so the head gets tighter)...
Does that sound logical? The screws can only get looser (theoretically) and against that, your tune safers can't do anything...

[brittc89]

How the hell could those bolts help your tuning??
The only thing they could do is prevent the screws to go deeper (so the head gets tighter)...
Does that sound logical? The screws can only get looser (theoretically) and against that, your tune safers can't do anything...

That sounded really rude man. And uncalled for. You definitely could have explained that in a nicer way.

[aydee]

[quote=Drummer Karl;217444]Yes, I know, and another tuning question...but I really don`t know a solution there.
I tuned my Ambassadors and my 10" and my 14" tom sound soooo clean and sweet BUT my 12" tom sounds just awful!

Exactly my experience. I spent a lot of time getting the tuning right on my yamaha custom maples, and with some forum help got my 8,10,14, 16 to sound great with that 'sweet sustain', by tuning batter head to a nice round tone and then tuning the reso to a 3rd or a 4th note higher, whichever sounded better.

All this worked great till I got to the 12. None of this worked on this guy and I tried for hours.Finally, I detuned the tom and retuned in to matching tones..and voila!

So, the 12" is the odd ball tuning in my 7 piece kit ( I even use the same principle for my kick), but, hey it works for me.

[ghuyuiq]

That sounded really rude man. And uncalled for. You definitely could have explained that in a nicer way.

Ow, I didn't read it myself before posting. Sorry, really, I'll do read it next time but I wasn't trying to sound rude or anything. Karl, I really hope you're not mad at me now...

[rockitman]

Yes, I know, and another tuning question...but I really don`t know a solution there.
I tuned my Ambassadors and my 10" and my 14" tom sound soooo clean and sweet BUT my 12" tom sounds just awful! It produces awful overtones and it has not the sweet sustain wich the other two toms have. I know that it is also a psychical problem: The tom next to the ride cymbal always sounds worse".
but how can I get a nice tuning for it? how to tune the batter/reso head to get a nice tone?? are there special techniques?

would be so happy about help!

thanks alot,

Karl

Hey Karl, try tuning the whole kit up from the 14 to the 12 then up to the 10. I know it sounds wierd but it works for me. You may be having an interval issue between the toms.
If you remove the 10 and 14 from the kit and then hit the 12 it may sound find by it self. But then surrounded by the other toms, the frequency interval maybe vibrating the other drums causing a nasty overtone and feed back. Tuning the kit up from 14 thru 12 to 10, you'll find proper intervals between the toms. They will not only be intune, but intune as an instrument, and fills sound so much better . Once you find it you'll never leave it.
Check out Tony Williams video where he does the single strokes on the yellow kit. Listen to the intervals of the drums.

[maddrummr]

hrm the 14 is my tuning oddball. But i made it better by not really tuning by tone or tension. I first toned the reso side because i felt that was the problem. It was and i just found wrinkles in my reso head. It got rid of some of the problem but i probably need new heads anyways.

I would not just check for wrinkles but just for any loose spots in the head that may carry the right tone but its just too loose.

sounds kinda obscure but its the best i got for not looking and playing the drum.

[Drummer Karl]

Thanks for your suggestions!!! Yeah, Tony`s toms and intervals sound brilliant. His tuning method is definitly effective.
But luckily I`m going to order a 4-piece...and if not as planned...earlier or later I`ll have one.

Overall after a few weeks I found a good tuning method how to make it sound warm and pretty clean.
Though I don`t use it too often anymore...I`m more and more playing my 5-piece as a 4-piece. haha...don`t know, it happened automatically.

Ow, I didn't read it myself before posting. Sorry, really, I'll do read it next time but I wasn't trying to sound rude or anything. Karl, I really hope you're not mad at me now...

No biggie. I`m not mad on you...and yeah, it may sound strange but my toms really tighten when playing them! Not much...but it seems like they would tighten up.

Karl

[ghuyuiq]

Thanks for your suggestions!!! Yeah, Tony`s toms and intervals sound brilliant. His tuning method is definitly effective.
But luckily I`m going to order a 4-piece...and if not as planned...earlier or later I`ll have one.

Overall after a few weeks I found a good tuning method how to make it sound warm and pretty clean.
Though I don`t use it too often anymore...I`m more and more playing my 5-piece as a 4-piece. haha...don`t know, it happened automatically.



No biggie. I`m not mad on you...and yeah, it may sound strange but my toms really tighten when playing them! Not much...but it seems like they would tighten up.

Karl

They can tighten up when it gets warmer...

[Mr. A.C. Perkins]

my 12" always gets a little wonky too... usually the bottom head goes out. the rest of them sound great though... I always had a beef with 13" toms, which is why I don't have one lol ;)

[Wavelength]

First find the lowest pitch where your heads resonate evenly. If you want a low rock sound, tune the resonant head to that pitch and the batter a third--fifth lower. If you want a resonant, open sound, tune the batter to the lowest resonant pitch and the resonant head a third--fifth higher.