STICK CONTROL (george L stone) your experiences and suggestions

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

You can use the book on the whole kit. You can use it with your feet. You can use it with accents and with different tempos. The possibilities are endless in developing your abilities using the book "Stick Control." Right now I'm practicing it using molar strokes. It's cool to see that using this approach adds some insane fluidity to the exercises. I've never read Stone's other book, but using the Molar technique you can utilize the rebounds using the Molar wrist technique.

Ah, yes, the Molar technique....and its ugly cousin, the rhythm cavity.

[DWDrummer]

obviously an amazing book... if you are looking for strictly a rudimental book this is not the book. this is a hand conditioning book

[h3r3tic]

On exercise 13 (RRRR LLLL RRRR LLLL), should it be played with fingers or open/close?
I think that with fingers it sounds more even.

What do you think?

[zambizzi]

On exercise 13 (RRRR LLLL RRRR LLLL), should it be played with fingers or open/close?
I think that with fingers it sounds more even.

What do you think?

I do this exercise everyday on the pad, I'd say it's both wrist and fingers for me. I would suggest not relying entirely on fingers or entirely on wrist. When I get really warmed up after a half-hour of doing rudiments (or so)...I get a nice wrist-snapping action going where the fingers serve as a "cushion" to catch the rebound of the stroke coming off of the pad...and it launches it back into a down-stroke.

It's hard to explain but I've gotten pretty fast and even w/ this motion and it's my favorite on that page of the book. The trick is; do this as quickly *and* softly as you can, once you've got good, even strokes. See how close to the head you can keep the strokes *while* keeping them even.

[h3r3tic]

I do this exercise everyday on the pad, I'd say it's both wrist and fingers for me. I would suggest not relying entirely on fingers or entirely on wrist. When I get really warmed up after a half-hour of doing rudiments (or so)...I get a nice wrist-snapping action going where the fingers serve as a "cushion" to catch the rebound of the stroke coming off of the pad...and it launches it back into a down-stroke.

It's hard to explain but I've gotten pretty fast and even w/ this motion and it's my favorite on that page of the book. The trick is; do this as quickly *and* softly as you can, once you've got good, even strokes. See how close to the head you can keep the strokes *while* keeping them even.

Thanks bro ;) yeah, it's the open/close ;)

[zambizzi]

Thanks bro ;) yeah, it's the open/close ;)

Mmmm...not necessarily, no. I've seen the "open/close" method demonstrated and that's definitely not what I do w/ my grip. I'm using the fulcrum much more and not actually contracting or opening my grip. It's pretty weird looking...but very comfortable and fast.

Maybe I'll try to get my vid-cam working and get a quick shot of it. I had a friend of mine ask me the other day, "what the hell are you talking about?"...so that might help. :D

[h3r3tic]

Mmmm...not necessarily, no. I've seen the "open/close" method demonstrated and that's definitely not what I do w/ my grip. I'm using the fulcrum much more and not actually contracting or opening my grip. It's pretty weird looking...but very comfortable and fast.

Maybe I'll try to get my vid-cam working and get a quick shot of it. I had a friend of mine ask me the other day, "what the hell are you talking about?"...so that might help. :D

That would be cool! ;)

[balboa]

There's just too many ways to use SC to list here! =)
Maybe one day, I'll write an article on it.

I'll make myself unpopular here but I think people get too caught up on trendy techniques. Moeller. Heel-toe. Etc. Sure - if you have all the time in the world to practice all these techniques and grips, knock yourself out. It surely can't hurt. But I can't say that I believe that it helps either. Pick a grip and just practice! =) I was introduced to Moeller in college after marching and that was it. I can play plenty fast and I never needed to resort to using a special technique.

OK - flame away for not being a Moeller fan.
you mean function without form? pretty hard to achieve full potential.. like saying "dont worry about proper form when throwing the baseball, just heave it." if it works for you thats great, but i have to learn these different techniques to constantly better myself and learn more...but if u dont thats great

[ajgdrums7814]

**IDEA**

I really like jazzsnob's suggestion for the use of "Stick Control." However, while looking at the exercises, I got an idea to help those of us who may not have the patience to wait 5 months before we can bump up the tempo.

Granted, you'll still have to have a lot of patience for this theory. There are 24 exercises on the first page, but really, there are only 13 that are unique. Numbers 14 through 24 are simply combinations of the first 13 exercises.

So what if, instead of spending a week on all 24 exercises, we spent a week on just the first 13. So in essence, you'd be following the same exact program that jazzsnob laid out, but wouldn't be covering the combination exercises. Week one, you play the singles, doubles and exercise 5. Week two you play singles, doubles and exercise 6. You repeat all the way until exercise 13....THEN you can start over and bump the tempo up to 104.

This way, it takes you 9 weeks or roughly 2 months to complete the cycle, as opposed to 19 weeks or roughly 5 months.

Obviously covering the combinations too is ideal, but it's obvious that a lot of people (myself included) might not have the patience to wait 5 months before changing the tempo. In this exercise, you're covering and becoming intimate with the basic rudiments that MAKE UP the rest of the page and following pages.

Any thoughts on this?

[drums512]

Hi all! Been reading many of the discussions and decided to register and add my two cents in. I too, about 40 some years ago, also used the Stone stick control book and recently got it out to re learn my control. Someone here had posted about starting at about 100 on a metronome and gradually increasing speed- there are some great metronomes on the internet if you don't have one- but I also was reading the bio of Joe Morello and he talked about having lessons from Mr. Stone. He said that after going through the exercises he would then start putting an accent on one of the strokes and going through each page accenting diffeerent notes. What a great idea! Here within those 24 exercises if you vary the tempos AND accent the different strokes- none first, then second note, then third and so,so one page has and almost endless supply of quality exercises that I am sure when done with the book will improve everyone's technique. Thanks all!

[3vil0n3]

I've been trying to find this book for a while in town. Nobody even knows what I'm talking about. Where can I order this off of the internet?

[King Of Drums]

Hmm I've recently started using this book in a way to co-ordinate my limbs and I am seeing results quickly. Basically I've just used the first page and played one sticking with the feet and the other with the hands over top of it. I am going to try to play every pattern against every pattern on the page I think it will greatly improve my independence. Then you can play stuff from the sections on triplets with the first page for some polyrhythms. The combinations are endless. I also like to work on co-ordination and bass drum speed by playing the patterns between my left hand and right foot it has helped my bass drum speed/control a lot.

[Wernervonwaltsleben]

hey guys.how goes?
im realy sorry for this stupid question actually, i just want to make sure.
if i do like the stick control book, im also busy doing masterstudies by joe morello.
but with the whole wrist and finger thing.
if i do the exercises in for example master studies.the slow speeds are obviously with your wrists.if i increase the tempo to do the exercise must i use my wrists till i must turn over to finger or how must i do it.

and is there a wrong way of holding a stick, ive been realy looking into stick grip lately.and i bought me the natural evolution, how to develop technique by dave weckl, just to see if im doing something wrong.realy sorry to send this lame picture, but is that correct.im just worried that im doing it wrong.if i do fingers i just flip my hand around(french grip, only for fingers)

the first pic is how my hand looks when i stop playing, lifted my hand up from the pad and took the photo.and the other one is when i play.
plz tell me.sorry again, this is lame.ive been playing for 5 years and now im asking questions about stick grip.lame


http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o264/WernerVonW/technique.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o264/WernerVonW/technique001.jpg

[centralzeke]

It looks fine to me.

People really have to see it in motion, because many different grips can be used as long as the motions are correct. It's much more practical to analyze an incorrect motion (or stroke) than a grip.

[Wernervonwaltsleben]

whoah, the floor looks so bad on that photo.it's not how it looks normally.promise:)
thanx for saying that dude.im realy so worried about technique and stuff.

[Therma lobsterdore]

Hey guys, just thought I'd relate some recent changes that have happened with how I use stick control.

I'm a double bass drummer and I've been using jazzsnob's idea of concentrating on the first page for several months, I've gone through the other pages but now I just focus on the first one.

Previously, I would go through the first page with both my hands and feet at the same time, this is fine until I get towards 200bpm (in 8th's) where my feet start to really struggle, I persevered with this for a while but I've now concluded that this was seriously taking away from what I was doing with my hands, to the point where I was almost exclusively concentrating on my feet.

After watching JoJo Mayer's new DVD (which is awesome) I've decided to just single stroke roll with my feet whilst I go through the exercise's on page one, this has allowed me start incorporating open/close double strokes and moeller triplets/quads as I work through page one.

I've taken the speed back down to 160 so I can get used to using all these different hand techniques. So far it's working out great, I'm working several different hand techniques and I'm working hand/feet independence at the same time.

I still practice rudiments on my feet separately, but for my main foot workout I now go through the linear fills in Joe franco's double bass drumming book, which seems to be working out fine too.

[jazzsnob]

whoah, the floor looks so bad on that photo.it's not how it looks normally.promise:)
thanx for saying that dude.im realy so worried about technique and stuff.

Well do you want to hear some commentary on your grip? I'm assuming so, because you asked.


The first issue with your grip is your wrist. It's almost turned as if you were about to shake someones hand. To do stick control well you really need a loose, even wrist motion. Try moving your hand up and down with your wrist how it is in the photo vs. completely flat, parallel to the floor.

It also looks like you are holding the sticks too tightly, when you have your knuckles wrapped around your stick you can't use your fingers very well, because you are using your knuckles to clamp on the stick, as opposed to using your fingers as clamps and your knuckles as hinges (I'm not sure if this is the best term, but if you hold the stick farther out in your fingers, you can get more control and power out of your fingers because the knuckles actually do some work as opposed to just curling up). This also makes it a good idea to flatten your wrist out(for pad work at least) because you can't even properly execute french grip right now.

You never want to start a stick control exercise with tension. It looks to me like just holding your stick how you do creates a bit of tension, but hey, maybe you're really loose and can rock that grip, that's cool then. I'd suggest opening things in your grip up, checking your posture, keep everything as loose as you can.


It's not the worst grip in the world or anything, but especially if you think you want to do gladstone, you have to change your grip up. One major part of gladstone is a specific grip, and as of now, yours is incorrect.

Of course don't worry about any of this too much, your grip will always change and develop, but these might be things you figure out down the road anyway, so I don't know.

Good luck.

[Wernervonwaltsleben]

thanx alot.i appreciate your help.
i took that pic while i was doing like a 220 bpm single stroke thingie with the one hand.i know my hand looks kinda stiff and stuff, but if you go over a certain speed, say 230bpm(im not like a amateurish guy, it's all about speed stuff), isint the stick grip gonna change slighty in your hand like when you go fast.usually when i do something fast, i feel my fingers and my wrists working or if i flip my hand to french grip, thats when i only do fingers.i dont play french grip like for wrists and stuff.but if i play fast and i stop and then i adjust my hand on the stick again.is that normal or not.or do you hand stay exactly the same as of youre playing something realy slow.cause i realy dont feel like stiff or anything.damn, its hard.i dont know what to think.how do someone practice stick grip.should i hold the stick and just do slow exercises with it and get used to the feeling of the grip or something?

[jazzsnob]

thanx alot.i appreciate your help.
i took that pic while i was doing like a 220 bpm single stroke thingie with the one hand.i know my hand looks kinda stiff and stuff, but if you go over a certain speed, say 230bpm(im not like a amateurish guy, it's all about speed stuff), isint the stick grip gonna change slighty in your hand like when you go fast.usually when i do something fast, i feel my fingers and my wrists working or if i flip my hand to french grip, thats when i only do fingers.i dont play french grip like for wrists and stuff.but if i play fast and i stop and then i adjust my hand on the stick again.is that normal or not.or do you hand stay exactly the same as of youre playing something realy slow.cause i realy dont feel like stiff or anything.damn, its hard.i dont know what to think.how do someone practice stick grip.should i hold the stick and just do slow exercises with it and get used to the feeling of the grip or something?

I'm suggesting that your grip is fine if you are fine with it, but the way to take it to a high level is actually choosing a system for yourself, an actual specific grip that you know works well. Right now it sounds like you've practiced a lot, but maybe haven't put a huge amount of though into why you hold the sticks like you do and whether or not there is a better way.


Oh yeah, ajgdrummers7814's idea for the first 13 sticking patterns is excellent.

[Deltadrummer]

You can use the book on the whole kit. You can use it with your feet. You can use it with accents and with different tempos. The possibilities are endless in developing your abilities using the book "Stick Control." Right now I'm practicing it using molar strokes. It's cool to see that using this approach adds some insane fluidity to the exercises. I've never read Stone's other book, but using the Molar technique you can utilize the rebounds using the Molar wrist technique.


I've been through Accents and Rebounds and it is actually a good book for practicing wrist technique or Moeller. You can utilize the rebounds, which I think was Stone's intention or you can use a pure Moeller whip stroke for the accents. The first way is the more difficult of the two. I went through the exercises and wrote in rebounds, taps and control strokes where necessary.

[PeartWeckler]

To make it a bit interesting as well as working on a bit of independence, try playing a Samba pattern with your feet while doing the sticking exercises.

Yeah, that is kind of what I do, not with Samba, but more of a BD-on-1 thing. I figure if I'm restricted on speed, due to my weak hand (left), then i might as well practice some coordination while I'm going through the (boring) exercises. I've also been doing a "doubletime" version of the exercises, at the end of my practice time, doing fills with my BD, and playing a swing pattern on the ride. And I've found some knew grooves out of it.

But that is not what the exercises are for, so I don't do it doubletime too much.

So, my other suggestion is to play only your weak hand parts. And start off with weak hand parts that start on count one. So for the left hand, that is exercise #2, 4, 10, 12, 15, 20, 22, etc, etc.

I'm still on page one and two! And after I started back practicing again a couple of months ago, I can agree that it will take years to get the technique and control that I want. Even though, I'm setting a goal of 1 year on technique.

Steph

[jbutl78]

Hello,
I'm sorry if this has already been talked about in this thread, but there's something that i'm really not sure about in the section about "how to practise "stick control"".

It says to practise each rhythm 20 times without stopping, 'then go onto the next one', but it also says to practise each rudiment at varying tempos with and without a metronome.

So does this mean (for example) we set a metronome on a certain speed, play an exercise 20 times, increase the speed, play the same exercise 20 times again, etc.

OR, do we go through (say) the first page, doing each exercise 20 times, then speed up the metronome and go through the page, doing each exercise 20 times again, etc.

or would it be better to go through several exercises at some tempo, then then next day increase the tempo doing the same exercises. . etc.?

Cheers,

[shuffle]

Hello Jbutl78

Mr Stone is just giving a few different ways to practice the exercises in the intro.

As you can see in the thread, there are many other ways to work them out, and the only rule seems to be that there is no rule, as long as you benefit from it.

I took a short break from the book myself, but I'm thinkin of gettin' back to it. The method I seem to get the most from is by using a metronome and doing each exercises 20-25 times, one after the other. I keep the same tempo over one session of exercises, but I like to move it, faster or slower - while remaining in a "comfort zone" - between sessions.

[PeartWeckler]

As you can see in the thread, there are many other ways to work them out, and the only rule seems to be that there is no rule, as long as you benefit from it.


I totally agree, although I haven't touched Stick Control since August. Every time I attempt an exercise (on page one), my wrists tighten up. I have, however, found beneficial practicing on real drums rather than on a practice pad, and I don't know if this has anything to do with my wrist fatigue. I do know that when I put on a marching snare and go over to the local high school after work, I immediately feel much more comfortable with my playing.

I'm still building up technique in my weak hand (traditional grip) at this point in my "comeback", so maybe Stick Control will show itself to be useful at some future point in time.

Oh.. another method I have been using to improve my weak hand is, to practice each stroke by starting in the UP position, and ending in the UP position. This is to be practiced at zero tempo, one beat at a time. So, it would be (in terms of stick position)UP-DOWN-UP, HOLD, UP-DOWN-UP, HOLD, etc. After you feel the "burn", then try UP-DOWN-UP-DOWN-UP, HOLD, UP-DOWN-UP-DOWN-UP, HOLD, etc, increasing the number of hits as you feel necessary to feel a workout. Always start the exercise with the stick in the UP position (UP being the stick in the vertical - ie., pointing toward the ceiling).

This is not for the match-grip, or at least I haven't found it useful and/or necessary. It is for the traditional grip, where muscles that allow the rotating of the forearm can be strengthened (use a closed grip, for the most part).

Well that's where I'm at right now :)

Where are YOU at? Huh??

Huhhhhhh!!!!

Steph

[jbutl78]

Hey thanks, i realised i probably should've read through the posts (so many..) before asking that. feel silly now.
But i really liked jazzsnob's post right near the start about it, a few things about it weren't really clear, but when i have time again i'll have to read through it all and sort something out for myself.

Cheers

[mhanon13]

Guys,

I just started to use this book since many drummers have recommended it to me. I have been playing drums for like 2 years. I seriously want to master this book.

How often should I increase tempo let's say from 100 to 104 and then 106? How often? If I am talking about the 1st page, which I plan in practicing every single day of my life from now on. I plan on dedicating 2hrs daily to this book. 1 hr in the morning and 1 on nights.
What techniques should I use?
Should I use fingers or wrists only?
Should I practice this in a pillow to avoid rebounds?

Thanks a lot! :)

[NUTHA JASON]

all your questions are probably already answered in this enormous thread. in short practice slowly and be patient. 2 hours a day is a lot so be careful you don't burn out. 2 hours is fine if it means you have another 4 hours on hand to develop other areas in your drumming. if not then i would advise to spend only half an hour of quality GLS time a day and the other hour and a half on other things such as pedal technique, grooves, other rudiments and reading etc.

j

[mhanon13]

I read all the thread but I was not clear in something...

when using the metronome... how many beats per click? thanks a lot! :)

[shuffle]

I read all the thread but I was not clear in something...

when using the metronome... how many beats per click? thanks a lot! :)

I prefer 4 beats per click.

I think you should always use the metronome with Stick Control.

[tim1987]

I have recently purchased Steve Smith's Drum Legacy DVD which by the way is an awesome production.

Near the beginning of the DVD, he goes into hand and foot combinations and how he applied Stick Control to this as taught by Alan Dawson. Does anybody know more about Alan's different ways of interpreting Stick Control?

Anyway, he starts by using just the first page and say if your playing the first exercise of eighth notes of RLRLRLRL, you substitute the left hand note for a foot. Then vice-versa. He then demonstrates playing different stickings- say RR LL RR LL RR LL and playing that on the snare while filling in with the foot between each note in the hand.

Any tempo suggestions for starters and targets for this method? Obviously it would be good to start at a slow tempo to develop the control necessary at the faster tempos.

Many thanks
Tim

[Phat_Rolls]

I'm WAY late with this thread, but here's how I did my first run in with SC...

I played each exercise in 3-5 minute intervals, speeding up between intervals. I would bump the metronome by 10 BPM until I couldn't play cleanly at all, then I would drop back 4 BPM, if I still couldn't play then I would drop back 1-2 BPM until I found the max speed I could play at. I would play that for 3-5 minutes straight and then try to move up 1-2 BPM... So I would start like

exercise 1
90 BPM (3-5 mins)
100 BPM (3-5 mins)
....etc
200 BPM (fail)
196 BPM (pass)
198 BPM (pass)
199 BPM (fail)

then I would work at 199 BPM until I could pass.

This really worked well once I got to the triplets section and beyond. 8th notes are pretty easy to play, even at my max metronome speed.

BTW, it takes me FOREVER to work through a page, but the results have been great!

This is all pretty standard stuff I'm sure, but it's what I did.

[cyclepilot2]

we would start at around 60bpm then move up 20 bpm when you get comfortable at the current level . justto clarify the click was on the 1/4 note .i 've never seen the legacy video but it seems like a excercise that kenny aronoff does where he takes the first page from stick control and adds the bass drum to the pattern ex.
LBLBRBRB,B=Bass in a 8th note pattern and 2 and 4 on the hi hat .. one other excercise that we did that steve smith did was apply the bossa nova pattern to our feet while the stickings were in 8th note then when your comfortable with that try 16th note patterns .its sorta kinda like the rudimental ritual steve was taught at berkley by alan dawson. also you can just do the standard 2 and 4 with your feet with the 16th note stickings.

[tim1987]

What would you say is a good target tempo as I have tried working it up and when I get to 120, I struggle playing singles with the left and bass drum. I will work it much slower though obviously!

[cyclepilot2]

assuming your using the click as a quarter note and the hands are playing 8th notes and the adding the bass drum creating a 16th note pattern. 120-140 bpm is doing pretty good, as long as its smooth . its a excercise for independance first, so try not to worry on how fast you can do it. start slow(+-60 bpm) and pay attention to your technique.and remember to place your Hihat on the 2 and 4 and not flam it cause at higher speeds it probably will if your not paying attention. chuck

[FunkyLover999]

I played Stick Control on so many ways.. I´ll share what I´m doing with it right now.

Lets say page number 5. Trade 4´s between playing four bars of ride swing pattern while comping and four bars of every exercise of the lesson. All this while you sing a jazz tune over it.
"R" would always be the bass drum while "L" could be either snare or toms. The sticking depends whether your hitting the snare or a tom. You can use cross sticking as well. Obviously play swinging 8´s, and accent the last note written of the exercise after four bars of playing it. I practiced this with pages 5 to 7.
Trading fours between comping and reading the lesson while singing will make you more aware of the structure of the song. Being able to improvise tom/snare phrasing while having the melody in your head will work as a chop builder as well as a tool to improve your musicality.


Practice it at many speeds and with all the jazz tunes you want.. remember the most important thing: make it swing!


:D
Cheers

[CheshireSounds]

A thousand and one uses....
Went through a few pages of this thread and I'm pretty sure no one's used it this way:
I like to take the first few pages and abandon the stickings. Play all the 8th notes as double-strokes (RRLLRRLL) and use the stickings they give you as accent patterns. I.e. all R's are accented, all L's are unaccented. With double strokes, this helps you practice secondary accents in a musical way, because the patterned created by the original stickings are musical phrases. As they get faster and faster, they sound cool.
It's also a good exercise for the brain. Eventually you won't have to think about keeping the double strokes, only the accent pattern. Like if you were to put accents in a single stroke roll, you aren't thinking RLRLRL the whole time, just about the accents. After doing this with doubles, you can move to paradiddles and other rudiments, and things get tricky. Then when you take these idea's and bring them to the kit you have a whole new can of worms for fill, solo, and groove ideas.
I started to doing this for two reasons. 1. To help clear my head and not get caught up in stickings while fill and soloing, but still sound fresh and 2. Begin to work on a lot of Jojo's DnB vocab. Working on those secondary accents let me play a lot of his grooves, and in this fashion, I was able to play them without though to what my hands were doing, and just focus on the phrase of what I was doin! Hope someone finds this useful...

[randrade89]

Hey i've been recently practicing a triplet exercise :

Replace all the Rs with Rll and all the L with rrL. Good for practicing doubles and also some bop fills when you work it up to speed I guess.

By the way, the exercise that duke posted. Do you have to raise the tempo after you finish with the 60bpm and 120bpm? Or just go on to the next 3 pages.

[FunkyJazzer]

I played Stick Control on so many ways.. I´ll share what I´m doing with it right now.

Lets say page number 5. Trade 4´s between playing four bars of ride swing pattern while comping and four bars of every exercise of the lesson. All this while you sing a jazz tune over it.
"R" would always be the bass drum while "L" could be either snare or toms. The sticking depends whether your hitting the snare or a tom. You can use cross sticking as well. Obviously play swinging 8´s, and accent the last note written of the exercise after four bars of playing it. I practiced this with pages 5 to 7.
Trading fours between comping and reading the lesson while singing will make you more aware of the structure of the song. Being able to improvise tom/snare phrasing while having the melody in your head will work as a chop builder as well as a tool to improve your musicality.


Practice it at many speeds and with all the jazz tunes you want.. remember the most important thing: make it swing!


:D
Cheers


Cheers, Alan Dawson!

[joseisfreshhh]

ok guys i need some help, on page 12, is the "closed roll" just another word for a buzz roll?
and if it is, why does it say 9 stroke roll under the bar of first excercise?
help is appreciated

[Deltadrummer]

You could read pp. 4, "the closed roll notated on pp. 12 and thereafter . . ." it is a 9 stroke because you are going to count that roll as a breakdown of 4 sixteenth notes.

[joseisfreshhh]

so you would just count it as double stroke rolls, so 1 8th note = 2 strokes? lol im confused
and from excercises 13-24 it says 7 stroke roll so yea

[Deltadrummer]

There are two ways to execute a 9 stroke roll, either as an open roll or as a closed roll. An open roll has 9 strokes, a closed roll uses multiple bounces. But when you count them, it is one -e - and -a 2 -e- and- a in either case, and the second beat is rolled. For the 7 stroke roll, the roll will end on the 'a' of two.

[joseisfreshhh]

ohh i understand now
and i also found a video to further help me haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhWVbGRm3PE

[bonzo the beast]

Could anyone give me clarification on Jazzsnob's original routine. First off, do you do all the single (rlrl, lrlr) and all the double (rrll, llrr) excercises, or just the right hand lead excersises?
Secondly, do you do like 6 minutes on each individual exercise; or do you do each exercise one time, then the next, then the next, etc. for 30 minutes.

[bonzo the beast]

Can anyone help with my question?

[bonzo the beast]

bump (and gibberish to reach 20 characters).

[roboboticus]

THE JIMMY SAGE/CHUCK BROWN/BILLY GLADSTONE METHOD FOR STICK CONTROL.
Set your metronome to an 8th note of about 100.

Would this be equivalent to setting the quarter note to 50 (so, 50 bpm) and then playing 8th notes? Or is it 100 bpm (200 8th notes per minute)? Hope that's not too dumb a question :P

Thanks!

[Kneedragger81]

I am confused. The exercises are written as 1/8 notes (if I recall correctly) and in Cut Time.

My teacher asked me if I was using 1/4 or 1/8 pulse @ 110bpm. This is my max tempo right now. He said decent speed and control is at about 180, with quarter pulse.

I am really confused now because now I am still playing 4 notes per beat....but only counting 2 beats out loud. In other words....I am treating beats 2 & 4 as "eighth" notes.

i.e. (this is what I mean) how I count and play....what is the pulse

110 bpm

"One" "Two"
#1 (RLRL RLRL RLRL RLRL)


See, my metronome is playing 4 quarter notes....but I only count out loud 2 beats. I am technically shouting out 2 on beat 3 of metronome. This is what I mean by 'treating 2 & 4 as 1/8 notes', they just help subdivide my 2 shouted beats. So to me, it feels like I am playing 8 notes for one beat.

I know this may be confusing for some. I just want to understand how to play w/ 1/4 or 1/8 note pulse. THE ONLY reason I seek clarification is because I realized counting outloud less often helps even notes out at higher speeds.

[Boomka]

I have recently purchased Steve Smith's Drum Legacy DVD which by the way is an awesome production.

Near the beginning of the DVD, he goes into hand and foot combinations and how he applied Stick Control to this as taught by Alan Dawson. Does anybody know more about Alan's different ways of interpreting Stick Control?

Anyway, he starts by using just the first page and say if your playing the first exercise of eighth notes of RLRLRLRL, you substitute the left hand note for a foot. Then vice-versa. He then demonstrates playing different stickings- say RR LL RR LL RR LL and playing that on the snare while filling in with the foot between each note in the hand.

Any tempo suggestions for starters and targets for this method? Obviously it would be good to start at a slow tempo to develop the control necessary at the faster tempos.

Many thanks
Tim

Tim!

I don't know how Dawson used Stick Control, but your last sentence seems like the smart way to go. Don't worry about tempo, but control and accuracy. How's the Blackley stuff going?

[Cuauhtemoc]

A great book and I have used it for years. You can vary the temps and of course modulate the meter to make exercises you've mastered even more challenging.

In my opinion though, use it like mapquest. Get where you want to go and then create your own sticking exercises to suit your own needs.

[JOE]

After I did the excercises with my hands & I must have done most of them thousands of times. Then I started doing some of the basic ones with my left hand & right foot. replacing my right hand with my right foot while I play the basic right hand rythyms on cymbal (Jazz, Rock, Latin).& appropriate high hat rythym.I use a lot of the patterns in music. It helped me to round myself out and its extremly usefull. I could'nt imagine playing without knowing that.

[mlewi1]

Ok, so I don't know if anyone will see this given how old the thread is, but I'll try. Jazzsnob suggests starting with 1/8 note = 100. Is this in 4/4 or 2/2?

Meaning is each note being played at 100 bpm or is each note getting played at 200 bpm?

Given that he says to start extremently slow, I am guessing each note is played at 100, which would make it 1/2 note = 50 bpm in 2/2 time. Is this correct?

[toddbishop]

Ok, so I don't know if anyone will see this given how old the thread is, but I'll try. Jazzsnob suggests starting with 1/8 note = 100. Is this in 4/4 or 2/2?

Meaning is each note being played at 100 bpm or is each note getting played at 200 bpm?

Given that he says to start extremently slow, I am guessing each note is played at 100, which would make it 1/2 note = 50 bpm in 2/2 time. Is this correct?

1/8=100 means just what it says in whatever meter. Since the exercises (I assume we're talking pp. 1-3) are all 8th notes, and the MM is 1/8=100, you'll be playing a note (and counting a syllable of 1&2&3&4&) with every click if you set your metronome to 100.

Last part is wrong- here's how that breaks down:
1/8 note = 100 bpm is the same as
1/4 note = 50 bpm which is also the same as
1/2 note = 25 bpm which is also the same as
1/16 note = 200bpm.

[mlewi1]

Ah, makes sense. I was totally over-thinking it and for that matter, under-thinking it. Thanks for the clarification. I guess I was seeing the 1/8ths counted as 11/6ths because it is 2/2 time...1e&a etc. and for that reason was not sure if the click at 100 was every stroke or every other stroke. Then I got my math wrong. So, thanks for getting me straightened away. I appreciate it. I also am amazed you saw the post given how old this thing is. Very cool. Thanks again.

[wannabe drummer]

Hey, I'm new here, and I'm not a drummer, although I've been practicing lately. Been a guitarist/bass player my whole life but started on drums way back in the day. Always wanted to come back to it just for my personal satisfsaction, finally got started earlier this year.
So anyways, I got SC without knowing what a great book it is. Thought I was the only one that knew of it, haha. I could tell it was awesome just by leafing through it at a used book store. Now I realize I was right! :)
I'm just self-teaching myself. As I said, I have no ideas of becoming professional, just doing it for myself.
Anyways, as far as practicing, I'm just doing it the way the boss, GLS, says to do it. Practice each exercise 20 times then go on to the next one. I practice out of the book a half hour to an hour 5 or 6 days a week.
Luckily I'm not new to music so it's very easy for me to read it.I did the first section at 120BPM, double beat rolls I had to start a little slower, around 80BPM. Closed roll I started way slower, but now am up to about 100BPM. Had trouble with that technique, still am to be honest.
I'm guessing by doing it this way, I should be able to fumble my way through it in about six months. I like doing it that way because, even though it won't be perfect, it will introduce me to all the techniques, drum patterns, etc. that I should know. But this is definitely a book that I will use for as long as I intend to play/practice drums. I have a couple other books I'm working with, but I always start my day off with this one. To me it seems indispensable. I can't imagine any drummer not using it.
I'm coming up to the Flam Beats section. Not looking forward to it for some reason. Looks like it's gonna be hard and not too much fun, and it's such a long section. But oh well.
My question (by looking ahead in the book) is, on p. 39 when it shows 5's then double beat 10's, then on p.41, 7s and double beat 14's!!! Is that just something you learn to feel? There's no way you can put any type of count to that I would assume. Looks pretty daunting, but I'm thinking it will be playable if I just start slow. That's about the only thing I see in it that seems very foreign to me.
Well thanx for listening to my amateurish jabber, :) This sites really cool though,

[wannabe drummer]

And just a side note. I was originally thinking of practicing kind of like what jazzsnob was saying, but not even the first page, just the first 8 exercises! I'm not a drummer but I would assume that just those exercises can be 90% of what an average drummer would ever need. Single rolls, double rolls and your basic four paradiddles.
I think after I go through the entire book once (like a bull in a china shop,,,) I'll start focusing in on certain exercises. Those first eight being the most important, Triplets and double beat triplets being a close second. And flams coming in third.

[jamest]

And just a side note. I was originally thinking of practicing kind of like what jazzsnob was saying, but not even the first page, just the first 8 exercises! I'm not a drummer but I would assume that just those exercises can be 90% of what an average drummer would ever need. Single rolls, double rolls and your basic four paradiddles.
I think after I go through the entire book once (like a bull in a china shop,,,) I'll start focusing in on certain exercises. Those first eight being the most important, Triplets and double beat triplets being a close second. And flams coming in third.

If you are new to drumming then practicing just the first few exercises on singles, doubles, and paradiddles is a good idea. Start to get those down and you'll be heading in the right direction for sure.
__________________

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going!"

http://www.excellent-offers.com/gravy1.jpg

[ricc333]

I don't know if anyone else has had this happen, but it's kind of a funny story. Eons and eons ago, back when I first started taking lessons, my drum teacher had me go out and get a copy of stick control. We worked out of it for some time. Basically he was just making sure I was playing the exercises correctly, and then it was up to me to practice out of it on my own.

So anyway, one day we were chugging on somewhere in the middle of the book, and with every page turned the notes would get wider and wider. It was some sort of printing defect that kept getting worse with every page. I didn't know what was up, but eventually it got to be where the whole music staff was just a thick black bar. My teacher didn't stop me because he thought it was funny to see my struggling to make the notes out. By the time I was like, "WTF man?", he was dying laughing.

Anyway, I still have it if anyone wants to see a pic of it. It's truly a young drummer's nightmare.

[Volentry]

This is an awesome thread, and I hope it gets stickied. I'll add the way I learned.

This is by no means the only way to do stick control, but this is a proven way to get some serious technique together. It requires A LOT of patience, and I don’t suggest starting it if you aren’t going to finish it. It’s EXTREMELY difficult sometimes. And also, the method takes about 3-5 years to complete. And you only practice the first page of the book.

THE JIMMY SAGE/CHUCK BROWN/BILLY GLADSTONE METHOD FOR STICK CONTROL.
Set your metronome to an 8th note of about 100. Most drummers should be able to do anything on the first page at that tempo after a few minutes of messing around. Now spend an entire week working(I’m sorry, I don’t have my book with me, so I don’t have exact numbers) on the . Just singles, doubles, and the first paradiddle exercise. Only those two , extremely slow. The doubles and paradiddles should sound EXACTLY like singles. It’s good to go over this method with a teacher, or to record yourself doing it on a snare drum to make sure everything is perfect. Then, one week later, you practice single, doubles, and the next exercise, inverted paradiddles(RLLRLRRL). If it takes you two weeks to get it perfect, fine. Give youself time on these excercises.

Another difficult part of the exercise is that every minute or so you should raise your stick to at least a 12-16 inch height and play at that height for 8 measures. Then you bring in back down. You must do this perfectly in time and make sure all the strokes are still uniform in dynamic and tonal quality and all that jibba jabba. This will give you “good pain” after a while, your muscles WILL get sore, but they will never give you terrible pain.

Remember, just like G.L. Stone said, stay relaxed 100% of the time, even when you go up. You should be putting at least 30 minutes a day into these excercises.


So you spend 2 months, going through excercises 5-24 or something at tempo 100. Done now? Great! Now you do it all over again at 104! and 108! and 112! and 116! and so on!. Never go up more then one click on a metronome when starting the page over.




The reason this exercise method is so difficult is because you have to be so patient. A lot of younger drummers especially want to start faster, speed up the next day, blah blah blah. If you do that you WILL NOT IMPROVE AS QUICKLY. This exercise really seriously does require patience. It apparently takes an entire year to get from 200 to 208.


The reasons this exercise is GREAT are numerous. First of all, you are always working on singles and doubles. Singles and doubles are what most of drumming is made of. Second of all, spending a couple weeks on only one combination of 8 notes makes you completely intimate with the pattern, and you will be able to interchange it in time with any feel you want. I guarantee you that by the time you finish this exercise(in 2112 or so) you will have some SERIOUS technique. One of my drum teacher’s older students is on 176 or something(he's been doing for 3 1/2 years) and has some crazy technical abilities.

Good technique means you can learn parts faster.

Yay for good technique!


p.s. do these excercises on a practice pad with LOTS of rebound. Don't worry, you won't need a pillow to "feel the burn" once you get to about 138 or so.
When you play all these exercises, you always play them as 8th notes just like it's written in the book? Which means when you get to 176, you're pretty much playing 16ths at 88bpm?

Start with the half-note 112bpm on the metronome. I say that because I'm pretty sure the subdivision for the beats on the first page is 8ths. I don't have the book in front of me, my friend borrowed mine, so forgive me. There should be four hand strokes per click.
And with this it also means 8th notes at 112bpm? Because you were talking about 112bpm and there should be 4 hand strokes per click, that would be pretty darn fast. But you meant half notes so... yeah I need some confirmation.

[GBaslJazzer]

I figured I'd share the routine I've developed and am currently using with George Stone's Stick Control. I've been doing the book's exercises at 130 bpm since I've purchased it about two years ago. I had a moderate level of technique prior to working with this text so this was a comfortable speed to use.

Like so many other routines posted here, this one only uses the infamous page five. Start by finding your comfort zone with a metronome (this might be 130 bpm or slower depending on your skill level). Once you find a comfortable setting, start playing through each exercise for five minutes without stopping. Keep a close eye on your stick height and be sure to make each stroke sound even. When you finish playing through all 24 exercises, play them an additional eleven times at the same tempo. Once you've done this, you will have played each exercise for one hour and have spent a full 24 hours on the page at your starting tempo. This will create a definite intimacy (as jazzsnob previously mentioned) with each exercise. Now increase your metronome by 5 bpm and repeat the process. I recommend you spend at least 30 minutes a day (6 exercises) when working through this routine.

It should be obvious that this routine will take a long time to complete if you continue to 200+ bpm. The idea is to gain speed and control at a slow, gradual pace. If you don't have the patience and dedication to keep up with this routine, I suggest you find a different method for practicing Stick Control. Any comments or suggestions you might have are welcomed. Thanks.

GBJ

[JohnW]

I have recently purchased Steve Smith's Drum Legacy DVD which by the way is an awesome production.

Near the beginning of the DVD, he goes into hand and foot combinations and how he applied Stick Control to this as taught by Alan Dawson. Does anybody know more about Alan's different ways of interpreting Stick Control?

Anyway, he starts by using just the first page and say if your playing the first exercise of eighth notes of RLRLRLRL, you substitute the left hand note for a foot. Then vice-versa. He then demonstrates playing different stickings- say RR LL RR LL RR LL and playing that on the snare while filling in with the foot between each note in the hand.

Any tempo suggestions for starters and targets for this method? Obviously it would be good to start at a slow tempo to develop the control necessary at the faster tempos.

Many thanks
Tim

Yikes! I just realized this post is over 2 year old. Sorry!

Anyway, I studied with Alan from 1982-83 as a fairly "green" player. And I don't make any claim on the Alan Dawson method. But what I recall among some of his teachings were TWO applications of Stick Control. The first was for the hands. You take the 1st column (Ex. 1-12) at say 1/2 note= 72 BPM, so you play each note as 8ths. Play the 1st exercise line once, then 4 Rights 4 Lefts, 4 Rights, 4 Lefts. Go to the 2nd line and so on. After the 12th exercise line, go back to the 1st line and follow it with 8R, 8L, 8R, 8L. Continue to the 12th line, then go back to the 1st line and follow up with 16R, 16L, 16R, 16L. Continue to the 12th line, then go back to the 1st line. Immediately following that, you play a 16th note single stroke roll lasting as long as one exercise line (4 beats or 2 Bars of 2/2) and ending on the down beat of the next bar. Then take a 4 beat breakThe key is to start the single strokes with the OPPOSITE Hand of the last note in the line preceding it. All the while keeping time-(Right foot taps on all four beats, Left foot rocks heel/toe on 2 & 4).

SIMPLY PUT IT'S:

EX. LINE 1: R_L_R_L_ R_L_R_L_ R_L_R_L_ R_L_R_L_ then R_R_R_R_ L_L_L_L_ R_R_R_R_ L_L_L_L_
EX. LINE 2: L_R_L_R_ L_R_L_R_ L_R_L_R_ L_R_L_R_ then R_R_R_R_ L_L_L_L_ R_R_R_R_ L_L_L_L_
Etc., to line 12

Then ex. 1-12 column with 8R, 8L, 8R, 8L
Then ex. 1-12 column with 16R, 16L, 16R, 16L
Then ex. 1-12 column with singles:

R_L_R_L_R_L_R_L_R_L_R_L_R_L_R_L_RLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRL RLRLRLRLRLRLRLR
Rest Rest Rest Rest
L_R_L_R_L_R_L_R_L_R_L_R_L_R_L_R_LRLRLRLRLRLRLRLRLR LRLRLRLRLRLRLRL
Rest Rest Rest Rest
And so on...

For the Set, his Stick Control method that I remember was this AABA song form exercise. The key is R=SNARE, L=BASS DRUM.

WHILE SINGING "Take the A-Train"!!! Metronome at 72:

Part A

4 bars of Swing time:
Hi Hat on 2 & 4
Ding dinga-ding on ride
Bass Drum on all 4s (or tap the heel)
Cross Stick rim click on 4

Followed by 4 bars of swung exercise line:
Hi Hat on 2 & 4
Ding dinga-ding on ride (1, 2ta3, 4 ta1...)

swung exercise line#1
(Snare___BassSnare___BassSnare___BassSnare___BassS nare___etc.)

Part A

4 bars of Swing time
Same as above but substitute exercise line#2
(Bass___SnareBass___SnareBass___SnareBass___SnareB ass___etc.)

Part B (Bridge)

4 bars of Swing time
Same as above but substitute exercise line#3
(Snare___SnareBass___BassSnare___SnareBass___BassS nare___etc.)

Part A

4 bars of Swing time
Same as above but substitute exercise line#4
(Bass___BassSnare___SnareBass___BassSnare___SnareB ass___etc.)

So the first 4 lines of Stick Control take up one full chorus of A-Train (A-A-B-A). You then repeat singing the song for lines 5-8 and again for 9-12.

This is what I remember and still practice now that I'm getting back into set playing again. There are some true teachers of Alan's style (Like John Ramsay) and I should emphasize that this is just what I got out of it; not a method, per se. There are some variations on this, and If I remember any addenda or corrections, I'll post them again. Hope it helps.

Cheers,

-John

[Gretsch64]

I hope someone can clarify something for me here. Numerous people give their metronome recommendations, lets say 130 BMP. In what context? I gather each line on the first pages are written in 2/4, so 1/8 = 130 would be really slow, 1/2 = 130 would be moderate. I am playing these really slow to begin with so am I correct in assuming most of these suggestions represent the value = 1/8?

[JohnW]

I hope someone can clarify something for me here. Numerous people give their metronome recommendations, lets say 130 BMP. In what context? I gather each line on the first pages are written in 2/4, so 1/8 = 130 would be really slow, 1/2 = 130 would be moderate. I am playing these really slow to begin with so am I correct in assuming most of these suggestions represent the value = 1/8?

Yes, this does get confusing. The best way I can explain it is to use lay terms, some non-musical. Look at any line on the first 3 notated pages in Stick Control. Each line has 4 "bunches" of notes, and each bunch, or group of notes is equal to a "BEAT" note. Forget the names of notes for a moment. When I set the metronome to 72, I'm playing one bunch of notes (or one beat note) for every click. It's as simple as that. And if I count, it turns out that I'm playing 72 bunches of notes every minute.

Now onto note values and time signatures. Sometimes terms get mixed up, and I've been known to be one of the guilty parties. But each line on those three pages is actually written in 2/2, NOT 2/4. Each line is divided in the middle by a vertical bar line creating two equal bars. There are a total of 8 notes equally spread within each bar, with 4 equally spread across each beat. Each one of these notes is called an "1/8th note", since they're equal to one eighth of the total bar. Visually, each note within a beat is connected with a horizontal line at the top, confirming that they are 1/8th notes.

So if you add up the total of notes within each beat note, you get 1/8th+1/8th+1/8th+1/8th = 1/2. So the value of each BEAT note is 1/2 note, NOT 1/4 note. And since there are 2 of these half note beats within each bar, the time signature is called 2/2.

After all is said and done, I don't think time signature. If the metronome is set to 72, I'm tapping my foot on each click, and playing one "bunch" or group of notes (a full beat note) every time my foot comes down. Sometimes if I'm playing very slow, I'll set the metronome to double time to keep the pulse steady. So instead of say 60, I'll put it to 120 and I'll hear 2 clicks every time my foot comes down.

On a side note, I think the Western application of time signatures can be very misleading and seems to fall short of an explanation when you get away from "common" time. For instance, where is there whole note in a bar of 3/4? 3/4 implies 3 beats per bar (or measure) and 1/4 note gets the beat. But where does that "1/4" note derive its value from? It has to be equal to 1/4 of something. Just as a quarter in pocket change derives its value as being 25% of $1.00, a quarter note in music is equal to 25% of a whole note. But in 3/4, the next whole note down beat happens at the 2nd beat of the next bar. Then again at the third beat of the next bar. Then another bar has to pass. Only after 4 bars are complete does the whole note land on the downbeat! In my mind, this sets up an implied cross rhythm, which doesn't need to be there. This may seem like semantics, or plain nit-picking. And it may be, with regard to most Western music which doesn't develop cross rhythms, poly-meter and the like. But as soon as these advanced ideas come into play, all bets are off. In these instances, if you try to deal strictly with time signatures, you're dealing with an implied cross rhythm which may have nothing to do with the direction of the music.

If I'm off base with any of these points, or missing something feel free to point out my errors.

There. I'm much better now!

-John W.

[GBaslJazzer]

@Gretsch64

I'll try to clarify this a little bit. As I stated in my last post, I recommended using 130 bpm as a starting point to gauge your comfort zone. When I play these exercises at this tempo, I'm playing 16 notes for every 8 clicks. So really, at least in my opinion, playing these exercises at 130 bpm in this manner is a fairly moderate speed. I hope this helps.

@JohnW

Excellent post! The way you explained it should make a lot of sense to everyone. Also, great advice concerning time signatures. Sometimes it's easier to just forget about them and concentrate on feeling the beat. I think this especially applies to a book like Stick Control. It's designed to be simple, so it's important not to get sidetracked from just playing the exercises in time.

GBJ

[Lavistyksia]

I figured I'd share the routine I've developed and am currently using with George Stone's Stick Control. I've been doing the book's exercises at 130 bpm since I've purchased it about two years ago. I had a moderate level of technique prior to working with this text so this was a comfortable speed to use.

Like so many other routines posted here, this one only uses the infamous page five. Start by finding your comfort zone with a metronome (this might be 130 bpm or slower depending on your skill level). Once you find a comfortable setting, start playing through each exercise for five minutes without stopping. Keep a close eye on your stick height and be sure to make each stroke sound even. When you finish playing through all 24 exercises, play them an additional eleven times at the same tempo. Once you've done this, you will have played each exercise for one hour and have spent a full 24 hours on the page at your starting tempo. This will create a definite intimacy (as jazzsnob previously mentioned) with each exercise. Now increase your metronome by 5 bpm and repeat the process. I recommend you spend at least 30 minutes a day (6 exercises) when working through this routine.

It should be obvious that this routine will take a long time to complete if you continue to 200+ bpm. The idea is to gain speed and control at a slow, gradual pace. If you don't have the patience and dedication to keep up with this routine, I suggest you find a different method for practicing Stick Control. Any comments or suggestions you might have are welcomed. Thanks.

GBJ

I'm beginning to use this book, and I think this is a reasonable way to start. I tried practicing at 130 bpm and it is comfortable to start with, but I'm feeling it might also be useful to practice it at slower speeds to gain the feel for slower tempos (70 or 60 bpm). Do you think doing that would be worthwhile?

[bigA415]

I hope someone can clarify something for me here. Numerous people give their metronome recommendations, lets say 130 BMP. In what context? I gather each line on the first pages are written in 2/4, so 1/8 = 130 would be really slow, 1/2 = 130 would be moderate. I am playing these really slow to begin with so am I correct in assuming most of these suggestions represent the value = 1/8?

i found out myself that i was going to fast when i realized that doing an exercise such as 13 (rrrr llll) would be nearly impossible at 200bpm even though an exercise like #1 felt fine at that tempo. if thats not the case for you, your probably doing it right.

[tarikghi]

I love this book. It's the most important book for any drummer to have. I would never practice fast with this book. Only from 60 - 84 BPM and that's all. One of the beauties of Stick Control is that there are endless ways to use it. Examples: On your practice pad - Full strokes at 60 bpm, each stroke = quarter note. One minute for each line (24 minutes per page) everyday, one page per week. Once you have gone through the book that way then do half strokes and then low strokes. That should take about one year

Now onto the fun stuff: On the set play a Latin pattern with your feet, samba, bosso, ect... and play the books patterns with your hands against it at 72-84 bpm. It can get challenging but make sure, again, one minute per line (24 min per page). One page a week.

Try playing single strokes with your feet and then go through the book playing against that with your hands. Paradiddles in your hands over singles in your feet can be very tricky.

Have fun!!!

[Redfern]

I'm beginning to use this book, and I think this is a reasonable way to start. I tried practicing at 130 bpm and it is comfortable to start with, but I'm feeling it might also be useful to practice it at slower speeds to gain the feel for slower tempos (70 or 60 bpm). Do you think doing that would be worthwhile?

I started at 80BPM and move up 5BPM every day... 60 felt a little too slow but its definatelty worth starting at slower tempos.

[BigSteve]

I started at 60BPM and only moved up once every line was landed cleanly, using cut time as written. One thing that has really helped my coordination between limbs was to simply count out loud (subdividing 1e&a2e&a) while playing the patterns and tapping my feet. I usually keep time with my right foot but I will switch it up at times to work the left as well.

There are so many good suggestions in this thread about how to use this material, I think once I have gone through Sick Control and have it up to some speed I'll start using some of these suggestions on the kit.

[Yopps]

Guys what do you reccomend for useing Stick Control for around the kit? I' m starting to use it on a 4 piece kit with a hat and ride only instead of just a practice pad/snare. Need some suggestions because there is just SO MUCH STUFF that can be done with it. Need some starting ideas/combos that work good for pop music and 60's rock. I plan on doing pg 5,6 and 7 for now. Also whats a good starting bpm? Thanks

[BigSteve]

Guys what do you reccomend for useing Stick Control for around the kit? I' m starting to use it on a 4 piece kit with a hat and ride only instead of just a practice pad/snare. Need some suggestions because there is just SO MUCH STUFF that can be done with it. Need some starting ideas/combos that work good for pop music and 60's rock. I plan on doing pg 5,6 and 7 for now. Also whats a good starting bpm? Thanks


Hi Yopps,

Have you read through this entire thread? A ton of ideas here on applying Stick Control to the kit.

[Yopps]

Yeah I have but there is just massive amounts of info and ideas here. Wondering what the best starting point was.

[toddbishop]

Here's a method for doing that- it specifically deals with making polyrhythms out of the 3/8 exercises (http://shipdrummer.blogspot.com/2011/07/cross-rhythms-using-stone.html), but applies to other areas of the book as well.

[Basturina]

Hello everyone,

Found this thread the other day and I must say it's full of great advices and ideas about "The Drum Bible".
I am just starting to use Stick Control and I came here to find some advices and uses on it.

After reading a good part of it I went with all that knowledge to this guy who is a last year student of a Jazz Academy in Austria.
I told him about all the feedback of this thread and I especially accented the first page of stick control and he then told that I should play these exercises using 32nd notes instead of 8th notes.

What do you think about that?

[Wavelength]

He then told that I should play these exercises using 32nd notes instead of 8th notes.

What do you think about that?

8th notes and 32nd notes can sound the same depending on the tempo; 32nd notes at 60 bpm = 8th notes at 240 bpm. Was he referring to how the click of the metronome lands?