Concerning The 2-50 Exercise

[Pearlrules]

Dom Famularo recommends that you spend an equal amount of time with each hand seperately with his 2-50 exercise.
BUT, Art Verdi recommends that you play with your sticks at the same time (like a blast beat) because you can save practice time and you can watch the evenness of each stroke much easier... but doesn't this create flamming if you want to produce a single stroke roll?
If you wanna play a clean single stroke roll, how can you if you're training yourself to hitting both of the sticks at the same time?
http://www.tigerbill.com/media/sn03wfd6.wmv - 00:40

[Raymond Bloom]

If you want to develope nice and smooth single stroke roll then I'd suggest the 2-50 exercise but if you already have a good and solid single stroke roll then you could try Art Verdi's exercise

[Jeff Almeyda]

Dom Famularo recommends that you spend an equal amount of time with each hand seperately with his 2-50 exercise.
BUT, Art Verdi recommends that you play with your sticks at the same time (like a blast beat) because you can save practice time and you can watch the evenness of each stroke much easier... but doesn't this create flamming if you want to produce a single stroke roll?
If you wanna play a clean single stroke roll, how can you if you're training yourself to hitting both of the sticks at the same time?
http://www.tigerbill.com/media/sn03wfd6.wmv - 00:40

First off, the 2-50 is usually applied to the free stroke and Art is talking about finger control so they're not the same. The 2-50 free stroke exercise is a foundation exercise while finger control is more "icing on the cake" You should have a decent roll with your wrists before you move on to fingers.

It is just as hard, if not harder, to hit both sticks at the same time as it is to roll with them. If you can hit both sticks at the same time without flamming, you only need to displace the left hand by one stroke to get a roll. The key is to start slowly and relaxed. It takes a little time but soon you won't flam if you practice correctly. You should also be practicing your roll as well.

[jollymosher]

both are important. the best way to get good finger control is to switch to french and just do singles on your left hand as offen as you can. it will catch up with you right hand. and then from there do single strokes, doubles, triplets, paradidles, odd time... ect

[n2xlr8n]

I didn't start a new thread because my Q is relating to the 2-50 exercise:

Is the free stroke performed @ QTR note = 80, or 16th = 80?

Thanks for the help!

S.

[centralzeke]

I didn't start a new thread because my Q is relating to the 2-50 exercise:

Is the free stroke performed @ QTR note = 80, or 16th = 80?

Thanks for the help!

S.

It's quarter. Most people will need to go this slow to correct their technique, let alone learning what to do with the rebound.

[n2xlr8n]

It's quarter. Most people will need to go this slow to correct their technique, let alone learning what to do with the rebound.

Don't misunderstand; I'm correcting my 31 year-old technique, as well, lol.

Thanks for the help!

S.

[mikei]

What is the 2 - 50 exercise?

Thanks

[samthebeat]

start with two stokes per hand, then move to four then to six and so on till you reach fifty. Do it slow.

[Just Drums]

start with two stokes per hand, then move to four then to six and so on till you reach fifty. Do it slow.

Sounds like more of a mental exercise than anything else......

[samthebeat]

Sounds like more of a mental exercise than anything else......

according to dom it is an ecersicise in disciplin and concerntration as much as it is technique. He recons by the time you have completed the exersize for the fisrt time you will have mastered the free stroke. Meaning that it is so hard to keep count that it will take you ages to get it right and not loose count.

I did it fisrt time, so i dont really see the logic in it.

[DrummerBen1]

according to dom it is an ecersicise in disciplin and concerntration as much as it is technique. He recons by the time you have completed the exersize for the fisrt time you will have mastered the free stroke. Meaning that it is so hard to keep count that it will take you ages to get it right and not loose count.

I did it fisrt time, so i dont really see the logic in it.

and you're paying attention to your technique more if you're counting which is a good thing! :)

[samthebeat]

I could'nt agree more, it takes a lot of concertration. I dont fancy doing it every night of the week though.

[Jeff Almeyda]

start with two stokes per hand, then move to four then to six and so on till you reach fifty. Do it slow.

It is not 2 STROKES per hand then 4 and so on. Where did you hear that?

It is 2 MEASURES of quarter notes (8 strokes) played from the wrist from a full stroke position (stick perpendicular to ground) with each hand then 4 measures and so on. While one stick is working the other is held perpendicular to the ground in a full stroke position. This exercise should be done in front of a mirror while you are ultra-critical of your form.

At a recommended starting tempo of 80 BPM this exercise takes over 75 minutes to complete.

I did this for MONTHS. I can now do it at 300 BPM. I'm done with the whole thing in about 20 something minutes. It is an exercise to develop the wrist and reflex action. The end result is a relaxed and powerful wrist technique.

HERE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU NEED TO KNOW: Go to the Vic Firth website, find Dom Famularo's cyber-lessons and watch "The Free stroke". Do this 2-50 exercise religously, stop worrying about whether the exercise is too slow for your "advanced" technique or any other nonsense that is really just an excuse not to do the work, and you will improve your hands better than any other method that I know of.

[Timmay]

Thanks Jeff, I didn't know I was supposed to hold the pausing stick up, I was always relaxing in the low stroke position. Gives you a nice stretch I think.

[samthebeat]

It is not 2 STROKES per hand then 4 and so on. Where did you hear that?

It is 2 MEASURES of quarter notes (8 strokes) played from the wrist from a full stroke position (stick perpendicular to ground) with each hand then 4 measures and so on. While one stick is working the other is held perpendicular to the ground in a full stroke position. This exercise should be done in front of a mirror while you are ultra-critical of your form.

At a recommended starting tempo of 80 BPM this exercise takes over 75 minutes to complete.

I did this for MONTHS. I can now do it at 300 BPM. I'm done with the whole thing in about 20 something minutes. It is an exercise to develop the wrist and reflex action. The end result is a relaxed and powerful wrist technique.

HERE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU NEED TO KNOW: Go to the Vic Firth website, find Dom Famularo's cyber-lessons and watch "The Free stroke". Do this 2-50 exercise religously, stop worrying about whether the exercise is too slow for your "advanced" technique or any other nonsense that is really just an excuse not to do the work, and you will improve your hands better than any other method that I know of.

I must of miss read that, i wondred why I did it in 10 minutes. I bet thats much harder, thanks for that jeff. I feel like dumb ass now, but thats nothing unusual.

[DamoSyzygy]

Make sure your sticks return to full stroke position (directly vertical) with each hit and make sure you arent 'pulling' the stick upwards.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Make sure your sticks return to full stroke position (directly vertical) with each hit and make sure you arent 'pulling' the stick upwards.


Yes, the rebound will bring the stick back up. This is what the old-timers used to call "playing off of the drum". You're only doing half the work, the rebound handles the rest. All you need to do is stay of of the way by relaxing and allowing the natural action to take place.

Obviously this exercise must be played on a surface that has rebound for it to work.

[positive vibe merchant]

Yes, the rebound will bring the stick back up. This is what the old-timers used to call "playing off of the drum". You're only doing half the work, the rebound handles the rest. All you need to do is stay of of the way by relaxing and allowing the natural action to take place.

Obviously this exercise must be played on a surface that has rebound for it to work.

I.E It won't work if your doing your practice on a piillow....

M@

[Miggle]

It is not 2 STROKES per hand then 4 and so on. Where did you hear that?

It is 2 MEASURES of quarter notes (8 strokes) played from the wrist from a full stroke position (stick perpendicular to ground) with each hand then 4 measures and so on. While one stick is working the other is held perpendicular to the ground in a full stroke position. This exercise should be done in front of a mirror while you are ultra-critical of your form.

At a recommended starting tempo of 80 BPM this exercise takes over 75 minutes to complete.

I did this for MONTHS. I can now do it at 300 BPM. I'm done with the whole thing in about 20 something minutes. It is an exercise to develop the wrist and reflex action. The end result is a relaxed and powerful wrist technique.

HERE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU NEED TO KNOW: Go to the Vic Firth website, find Dom Famularo's cyber-lessons and watch "The Free stroke". Do this 2-50 exercise religously, stop worrying about whether the exercise is too slow for your "advanced" technique or any other nonsense that is really just an excuse not to do the work, and you will improve your hands better than any other method that I know of.


when you say quarter notes at 80bpm, does this mean one note per beat? then 8 notes = 80bpm x2?

[DamoSyzygy]

If you are playing each of your hits as QUARTER-NOTES, then each hit is in-time with 80bpm on the metronome.

This is the way DOm recommends it - This is not a speed exercise so dont be alarmed if it feels slow to you.

[Miggle]

If you are playing each of your hits as QUARTER-NOTES, then each hit is in-time with 80bpm on the metronome.

This is the way DOm recommends it - This is not a speed exercise so dont be alarmed if it feels slow to you.

I did that exercise today but counted till 6 only. My timing is just terrible I felt I had to stop. I was over, in synch, then under the click.

thanks for answerting my qusetion tho. I'll be sure to practice that diligently in the coming days and months.

[Wavelength]

I started practicing the 2-50 exercise a week ago at 200 bpm. I have practiced the free stroke before and the technique wasn't new for me, so I decided to try a bit higher tempo to start with. I can get pretty even full strokes right in the center of the drum for 10 to 15 minutes. However, the 2-50 does seem to dig out any technique discrepancies and lack of endurance, especially after you've reached the last half of the exercise. Usually around 25-30 measures my left hand starts to lose its relaxation, but on every cycle I manage to bump up the Barrier of Slight Discomfort a few beats further. During he last 50 measures of the exercise I can play quite easily up to 44 measures before I begin to lose my looseness. I've seen some great advancement in this department: the first time I tried this exercise I started getting stiff around 14 measures or so.

And now comes the question I prepped so vigorously!

When should I raise the tempo? Should I be able to perform the 2-50 flawlessly and completely relaxed from start to finish before upping the ante? I know I could do it quite a bit faster already, but would it be more effective to concentrate on perfecting the 2-50 at a slower tempo first?

[Miggle]

lower the tempo. its actually harder to practice at 80bpm than at 200bpm

[johnhavart]

I think this exercice is great although I think it would be more efficient to do a version with the 2 hands playing at the same time.
What's your opnion on this ?

[Jeff Almeyda]

I think this exercice is great although I think it would be more efficient to do a version with the 2 hands playing at the same time.
What's your opnion on this ?

While there are some exercises that work well with both hands together, I do not think that this is one of them. The whole goal of this exercise is to pay attention to the tiniest details in the stroke and smooth them out. Using two hands would be a little awkward, IMO.

I DO do the exercise as alternating stokes, however. That comes after MONTHS of work on the hands individually.

Another note, don't fall into the trap of speeding it up just because you feel you can do it. I had been playing for over 20 YEARS when Dom showed me this exercise. He made me start at the slowest tempos and he stood over me for an hour, pointing out things like: "Your left hand angle is different than your right, "watch the pinky" etc. I am glad for it because I thought that the exercise was for "beginners" and didn't give it the attention that it deserved.

So, remember, don't speed up the tempo until your form is PERFECT at the lower tempo. And I don't mean perfect in your friend's eyes. Imagine if Buddy Rich was standing behind you, would HE say you had it ? (Buddy was notorious for being hard on bad musicianship and technique). That's the level of attention to detail that I'm talking about.

[h3r3tic]

If you want to develope nice and smooth single stroke roll then I'd suggest the 2-50 exercise but if you already have a good and solid single stroke roll then you could try Art Verdi's exercise

I agree, I´m practising the moeller in triplets 5 times a week for 10 mins (on the first, then I´ll increase 10 mins every week until the first month) with both hands at the same time, there´s no doubt that Art Verdi´s philosophy makes perfect sense :)

[johnhavart]

I think that once the right position is mastered (grip, arm, wrist, fingers) with the 2-50 exercice, then I would go for the Art Verdi exercice for the same purpose

[Wavelength]

What's your take on individual stroke velocity? Should the strokes adapt to the tempo and flow nicely together, or should the sticks have time to stop briefly in the high position, even at 200 bpm? When watching Dom perform the free stroke, he does the individual stroke extremely quickly.

The flowing stroke thing seems quite easy for me, but trying to make the stroke as quick as possible really forced me to slow down the tempo. Due to the additional muscle stress my hands were burning after just ten measures.

[Shredder]

I believe a more advanced player can go with Art's exercise and be safe, but a beginner to intermediate should go with the 2-50. Even though the way Art explained it sounded correct I personally think that alternating hands while practicing is better, simply because drumming all boils down to one thing, muscle memory. Notice he did not demonstrate any alternating single strokes in the video, I was wondering why he didn't if using both hands in unison is suppose to develop nice singles. You should alter hands during the majority of your practice time. Teaching each hand to do whatever you desire takes time and should not be rushed.

[Shane G]

So....whats up w/guys like "Pearlrules" starting a thread like this, then never coming back to discuss the answers given?


Its all over this forum - guys asking a not-answerable question, then not participating in the thread.


sillyness.

[Pearlrules]

So....whats up w/guys like "Pearlrules" starting a thread like this, then never coming back to discuss the answers given?


Its all over this forum - guys asking a not-answerable question, then not participating in the thread.


sillyness.

uhhh, because I didn't need to answer back, because I understood what they were all saying... like with alot of other people "all over this forum" do.

[Shane G]

uhhh, because I didn't need to answer back, because I understood what they were all saying... like with alot of other people "all over this forum" do.
Ok.

Thanks for clearin' that up.

[PBW]

I find that doing free strokes real slow (eg quarter notes at 40bpm) really fine tunes my internal sense of timing. Just make sure not to tap your foot or count the in-between spaces - just concentrate on nailing each beat as close as you can. You might not want to do the full 2-50 at this speed though!!!!

[skinny]

Most drummers don't play more than 24 strokes with either hand
50 is a little to long I think