Playing Gadd Solo

[Class A Drummer]

This is me playing around half of a solo of The great Steve Gadd. It definitly needs cleaning up with the triplet roles between the hihat and ride.

The reason the ride sounds so weird is because i muffled it with a towel (if i didnt you would not be able to hear the hi hat very well).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=b4Z4sKrruAE

[cdawg_2010]

sounded good, pretty soon ur gonna have steve gadd mastered. lol. nice storage for the drum key too lol

[Class A Drummer]

thx alot man. And yes, its a good spot for the key. That way, i always know where it is, and its convienient for whenever it is needed. Also my set came with one for each drum, and i use to have 4 or 5 on the floor tom.

[Drummer Karl]

sounded pretty good, you are catching the groove, nice one...it is just the timing, I see that you have the groove but now you have to hold this timing, it doesn`t matter what you play now in the groove but you have to hold the timing, clearly: We all have some problems with our timing, nobody can hold the perfect timing but maybe try to improve it...then we can do together, I do, too.

Karl

[Ufipman!]

If you learned how to count in time what you play, you might be dangerous. You are close but not touching. Learn to count in time and you will be very happy... Damn, I sound like a Chinese fortune cookie.

[Drummer Karl]

If you learned how to count in time what you play, you might be dangerous. You are close but not touching. Learn to count in time and you will be very happy... Damn, I sound like a Chinese fortune cookie.

yes, sounds a bit like chinese fortune cookie BUT you are right. Take a timing and play with this basic timing...but okay, can`t explain it as good as you, Ufipman! :-D

Karl

[Class A Drummer]

sounded pretty good, you are catching the groove, nice one...it is just the timing, I see that you have the groove but now you have to hold this timing, it doesn`t matter what you play now in the groove but you have to hold the timing, clearly: We all have some problems with our timing, nobody can hold the perfect timing but maybe try to improve it...then we can do together, I do, too.

Karl
thx alot. I definitly need to work on the timing. I finally got my metranome so i should improve quickly on that.

[jazzsnob]

You really should definitely look into a couple lessons with a real technique expert. Your hand technique looks extremely tense and impractical. You seriously have some bad habits that you need to kick NOW. Good luck.

[wondering]

if you didn t tell me it was gadd I would never imagine that is.

[Class A Drummer]

if you didn t tell me it was gadd I would never imagine that is.
ummm..... ok...............

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Are you kidding me? do you know anything about playing drums? im not just single stroking, im doing incredibly hard gohst notes, difficult samba beats, the 2 handed cross over which is one of the most difficult things to do, and much others. Think before you post.

That'll haunt you for the rest of your life.

[Loading...]

Much better than the last video. I agree wiith UfipMan, you need to learn how to count in time and watch your tempo. For a beginner with a sessions you have a good start... I would recommend turning that set into a four or five piece to begin with. The part at 0:47 was clean. Get the basics down before you start doing this though.

[Class A Drummer]

Much better than the last video. I agree wiith UfipMan, you need to learn how to count in time and watch your tempo. For a beginner with a sessions you have a good start... I would recommend turning that set into a four or five piece to begin with. The part at 0:47 was clean. Get the basics down before you start doing this though.
thx, but i think i have the basics down. I split every section and learned them long before i made this video. Also, this was pretty much the only thing left to learn in my steve gadd book besides an incredibly difficult cowbell samba beat im trying to learn now.

[Loading...]

I didn't mean the basics of the beat, I meant the basics of drumming.

[Stu_Strib]

I'm going to be brutally honest Class A....


STOP trying to play complex stuff, because it is way over your head at this stage of your development. You need to really just concentrate on playing simpler stuff very solidly before you try to move on to what you are trying to play right now. All that you are achieving is really spastic muscle memory and a bad sense of timing with this kind of playing. Back it way back, take the doubles out, and the ghost notes, and just explore all the possibilities with quarter notes and 8th notes for now. Don't be afraid of NOT playing notes either, because sometimes it is what you don't play that counts.

I felt I had to say that because you are getting entirely too much of a false sense of security with all the relatively nice things people are saying in here. While we all applaud your effort and your tenacity, you just need to hear a REAL and meaningful critique, or you won't get any better!

[Loading...]

Stu said what I mean in a more direct about the basics Class A.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Stu treads where others agree to tread. And all follow!

[Drummer Karl]

good, stu, good one. I mean, that is the thing...can just agree, and now Class A, it is up to you!

Karl

[Stu_Strib]

Well I don't mean to destroy him or anything...I just feel if he doesn't realize that his video isn't very good ( I couldn't find anything positive to say about it) and then everyone tells him how good it is, why would he think it isn't good? I just want to help is all.

If he were my student, I would stop him, explain a few things, then slow him down and make him do it again. I think a lot of my students 'think' they are doing it right, until I stop them and tell them what's wrong, then show them what it should look/sound like. Maybe a good teacher is in order?

[Drummer Karl]

Well I don't mean to destroy him or anything...I just feel if he doesn't realize that his video isn't very good ( I couldn't find anything positive to say about it) and then everyone tells him how good it is, why would he think it isn't good? I just want to help is all.

If he were my student, I would stop him, explain a few things, then slow him down and make him do it again. I think a lot of my students 'think' they are doing it right, until I stop them and tell them what's wrong, then show them what it should look/sound like. Maybe a good teacher is in order?

Oh Stu, you could be my teacher: he thinky like you, too...so he thinks right.
I also had fear because everybody would JUST tell me that I`m awesome etc and that I think I do everything right, but fortunately they also critizized me, gave tips.

PS.: We know that you don`t wanna destroy him, who wants this, this would be awful!

Karl

[aahznightsky]

That'll haunt you for the rest of your life.

Oh I remember when I first saw that! Oh man are you right.

[Bernhard]

Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bernhard

[finnhiggins]

I'd definitely agree a good teacher is in order.

The run-down of what's wrong here:

1) Technique. Them hands are awful stiff, Class A. You really need to back off and go back to things like the free stroke at really low tempos and try to get comfortable incorporating rebound.

2) Connected to the above, dynamics. You're playing Gadd stuff. One of the key characteristics of Gadd's playing is his excellent dynamic control, his ability to really separate out his accents from his ghost notes. All of your notes are basically the same volume, you don't seem to have any solid conception of down and up strokes and where they should be falling inside the patterns you're playing. There's a lot more to parts than which order you hit with your left and right hands. So once you've got the hand of the free/gladstone full stroke then you need to start slowly examining the basics of moeller technique and gladstone down, up, tap and half strokes.

3) Tone. You've got lots of drums, but they all sound like crap - moreso than is forgivable on a camcorder microphone. Take all the toms off and spend all your drumhead money on making the snare sound good, then your bass drum. Once you have some spare change again then get to work on one of your toms. Work outwards from there. I'll forgive you the nasty cymbal sounds until you're old enough to work and can afford some better ones.

Tone isn't just about heads, either - it intersects with tuning and very particularly technique. If you go watch a bunch of student drummers playing the same kit and listen to their double-stroke and backbeat snare tones you'll notice that they almost invariably sound totally different on the same drum. If you want to sound like Gadd you're going to need to work on playing your double strokes so that they sound smooth and warm at low dynamics on basically any drum, at any tempo.

4) Time. You're juddering all over the place, this isn't the smooth rubato push/pull of a Gadd or Tony Williams solo. Great drummers can move the time around like an expensive car with an equally expensive driver - it's a sort of smooth, professional confident surge or dip. You sound more like a student driver in a manual 1982 Mazda 323 with one of the tyres completely flat - there's flopping, juddering and screeching all over the road going on everywhere.

Basically what's going wrong here is all the stuff that separates beginning players from intermediate and advanced ones. In my book an "intermediate" player is somebody who has all the understanding of material that you have but who also has the ability and understanding to at least rehearse existing material so that their technique and timing comes out cleanly. An advanced player is somebody who can do this intuitively on all the material they play, without having to practice it. The material you're trying to copy is stuff pulled out of the bag with great ease by an extremely advanced player, but you're not yet at the level of technique or timing that you can execute it convincingly even with a lot of practice.

My suggestion is that you forget about all this paradiddly latiny business for the moment and just dedicate yourself to working on material like Stick Control, Accents & Rebounds and Gary Chaffee's "Time functioning patterns" book. Believe me, this stuff is not (and I repeat: NOT) below your level. It is going to be stuff that you can work on productively for the next ten years and still see improvements. But if you keep trying to think of yourself as an advanced player who can tackle technically complex material then you're never going to develop the foundation that will actually let you achieve that level of playing.

[Drummer Karl]

Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bernhard

How do you mean that? :-D

Mhhhh....

Karl

[finnhiggins]

How do you mean that? :-D

Mhhhh....

Karl

Sort of like a woman screaming "Oh my baby!!!!!" upon finding her child terribly injured, I suspect.

[YAMAHA DRUMMER]

Well I don't mean to destroy him or anything...I just feel if he doesn't realize that his video isn't very good ( I couldn't find anything positive to say about it) and then everyone tells him how good it is, why would he think it isn't good? I just want to help is all.

If he were my student, I would stop him, explain a few things, then slow him down and make him do it again. I think a lot of my students 'think' they are doing it right, until I stop them and tell them what's wrong, then show them what it should look/sound like. Maybe a good teacher is in order?
Hey Stu ,
i agree with every word you've said here , this forum is for people to say what they realy think in order to help and not to destroy.
it's very easy to be nice and write - " wow , you are great , awesome playing man " etc...
it's hard to say " hey man you don't do it right ,you don't keep time and bla bla bla "
we need to learn how to say what we think with out hurting each other.
and also people need to understand that nobody want to make them feel bad, this is all for good.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Sort of like a woman screaming "Oh my baby!!!!!" upon finding her child terribly injured, I suspect.

Funniest post this year. Without doubt. Funniest post all year.

[Loading...]

Good post Yamaha but the thing with Class A is he never takes criticism very well. These threads usually turn into three pagers consisting of the same arguements.

[YAMAHA DRUMMER]

Good post Yamaha but the thing with Class A is he never takes criticism very well. These threads usually turn into three pagers consisting of the same arguements.
hey Loading
if he never takes criticism ..... why does he posts new thread ?
never mind , we all need to know to get the good out of the bad...
anyways Loading , take care man

[LinearDrummer]

I'd definitely agree a good teacher is in order.

My suggestion is that you forget about all this paradiddly latiny business for the moment and just dedicate yourself to working on material like Stick Control, Accents & Rebounds and Gary Chaffee's "Time functioning patterns" book. Believe me, this stuff is not (and I repeat: NOT) below your level. It is going to be stuff that you can work on productively for the next ten years and still see improvements. But if you keep trying to think of yourself as an advanced player who can tackle technically complex material then you're never going to develop the foundation that will actually let you achieve that level of playing.

I startin taking lessons with my new teacher whos kinda of a legend in L.A. and the first thing he tells me is "You know your NOT good right cause the minute you think your too good for certain exercises then I'm not the teacher for you"..and I hadn't even played for him yet!

Moral of the story is sometimes most of us ALL need some humble pie...

I think if ClassA realizes he needs to take a step back for now and gets back to the basics the Gadd stuff will come out much better later on cause he does have some ability...JMO....

[YAMAHA DRUMMER]

I'd definitely agree a good teacher is in order.

The run-down of what's wrong here:

1) Technique. Them hands are awful stiff, Class A. You really need to back off and go back to things like the free stroke at really low tempos and try to get comfortable incorporating rebound.

2) Connected to the above, dynamics. You're playing Gadd stuff. One of the key characteristics of Gadd's playing is his excellent dynamic control, his ability to really separate out his accents from his ghost notes. All of your notes are basically the same volume, you don't seem to have any solid conception of down and up strokes and where they should be falling inside the patterns you're playing. There's a lot more to parts than which order you hit with your left and right hands. So once you've got the hand of the free/gladstone full stroke then you need to start slowly examining the basics of moeller technique and gladstone down, up, tap and half strokes.

3) Tone. You've got lots of drums, but they all sound like crap - moreso than is forgivable on a camcorder microphone. Take all the toms off and spend all your drumhead money on making the snare sound good, then your bass drum. Once you have some spare change again then get to work on one of your toms. Work outwards from there. I'll forgive you the nasty cymbal sounds until you're old enough to work and can afford some better ones.

Tone isn't just about heads, either - it intersects with tuning and very particularly technique. If you go watch a bunch of student drummers playing the same kit and listen to their double-stroke and backbeat snare tones you'll notice that they almost invariably sound totally different on the same drum. If you want to sound like Gadd you're going to need to work on playing your double strokes so that they sound smooth and warm at low dynamics on basically any drum, at any tempo.

4) Time. You're juddering all over the place, this isn't the smooth rubato push/pull of a Gadd or Tony Williams solo. Great drummers can move the time around like an expensive car with an equally expensive driver - it's a sort of smooth, professional confident surge or dip. You sound more like a student driver in a manual 1982 Mazda 323 with one of the tyres completely flat - there's flopping, juddering and screeching all over the road going on everywhere.

Basically what's going wrong here is all the stuff that separates beginning players from intermediate and advanced ones. In my book an "intermediate" player is somebody who has all the understanding of material that you have but who also has the ability and understanding to at least rehearse existing material so that their technique and timing comes out cleanly. An advanced player is somebody who can do this intuitively on all the material they play, without having to practice it. The material you're trying to copy is stuff pulled out of the bag with great ease by an extremely advanced player, but you're not yet at the level of technique or timing that you can execute it convincingly even with a lot of practice.

My suggestion is that you forget about all this paradiddly latiny business for the moment and just dedicate yourself to working on material like Stick Control, Accents & Rebounds and Gary Chaffee's "Time functioning patterns" book. Believe me, this stuff is not (and I repeat: NOT) below your level. It is going to be stuff that you can work on productively for the next ten years and still see improvements. But if you keep trying to think of yourself as an advanced player who can tackle technically complex material then you're never going to develop the foundation that will actually let you achieve that level of playing.
i just felt that i must say that you are more then right .
you said it all
good post
take care

[meandhimcallitus]

Harsh thread... ha, but true. This type of stuff takes time. Good Luck ClassA.

[franklinj]

20 characters -

[ege_the_drummer]

Sorry man, I have to agree with the rest of the gang. Your timing is horrible.

Fist things first: GET A METRONOME! That will help you so much, you'll wonder why you ever stopped using it! I remember the first time I sat down with a metronome...grueling business, but well, well worth it in the end.

Second: Get a tacher. This will aslo help so much. My teacher has shown me so many things that I dont know how I would be playing (Oh, and Jere, if youre looking at this, post once in a while!). He showed me how to play funk, and I mean real linear style of playing, which is obviously what youre interested in (as was I).

Thrid: Advanced Funk Techniques, Stick Control, Syncopation for the Modern Drummer, and if youre feeling especially adventerous, Conversations in Clave. Look them up. Buy them. Use them (with a metronome, of course, and a good teacher :>) )

Fourth: As stated above, youre obviously interested in funk, so I HIGHLY recommend getting into the style with such bands as Galactic, Tower of Power (or anything with Garibaldi for that matter). You really need to get used to the style before attempting a solo in it.

Last: Tune those toms man. I just recorded myself with a crappy camera, and my snare/toms didnt sound NEARLY as horrible. My snare aactually sounded exactly how I wanted it.


And no, I wont post my video, because I OVERPLAYED (something which I swore I would never do!) the song. However, I may be posting the same song and me playing it in 2 weeks time (Galactic-Villified).

Oh, and Finns, that was brilliant.

Peace out, and remember my comments.

Sorry dude but I'm gonna have to agree with everyone else.
Basically what Finn and franklin have already said is what came to my mind. Definatley practice at slower tempos, working on technique. And finally, find a teacher. A good teacher will take the time and explain what you need to work on. If you keep working at it, you should eventually get it!

[Class A Drummer]

I'm going to be brutally honest Class A....


STOP trying to play complex stuff, because it is way over your head at this stage of your development. You need to really just concentrate on playing simpler stuff very solidly before you try to move on to what you are trying to play right now. All that you are achieving is really spastic muscle memory and a bad sense of timing with this kind of playing. Back it way back, take the doubles out, and the ghost notes, and just explore all the possibilities with quarter notes and 8th notes for now. Don't be afraid of NOT playing notes either, because sometimes it is what you don't play that counts.

I felt I had to say that because you are getting entirely too much of a false sense of security with all the relatively nice things people are saying in here. While we all applaud your effort and your tenacity, you just need to hear a REAL and meaningful critique, or you won't get any better!
good post, and i agree with alot of it, but some i dont. I dont think i would be able to take much more then a baby or a small step back because after playing this kind of stuff, alot would seem boring. I took a look at some of the books they had at the local gc. Found some made by great drummers i know of and started picking random things out from them. Alot of it was so easy and got me bored quickly. I am searching for one that you are describing along with in the thread.

[franklinj]

good post, and i agree with alot of it, but some i dont. I dont think i would be able to take much more then a baby or a small step back because after playing this kind of stuff, alot would seem boring. I took a look at some of the books they had at the local gc. Found some made by great drummers i know of and started picking random things out from them. Alot of it was so easy and got me bored quickly. I am searching for one that you are describing along with in the thread.

Dude, dont say that. You have NO IDEA how those books can be applied. For instance:

Look at Stick Control. Sure, RLRRLRLL might seem boring at first. However, put a swing ride pattern over that, use the L for your left hand, and have the R as either your left or right foot, with the other foot keeping a steady pulse. Sound easy? Try it.

[fourstringdrums]

I agree with what everyone has said here. You NEED to get a teacher. Sure you can learn things on your own, and it's great that you're delving into harder things, but you need to learn how to run before you can walk. Just being able to reproduce the notes in a groove does not mean you know how to play it. You have to do it in time, with some sort of feel, and you have to do it cleanly.

Also, has a few others said, your drums sound lousy. Please take some time to tune your drums and take those O-Rings off and get some heads you like the sound of without them. If someone had told me they were Pearl Sessions without me seeing your pics as proof, I wouldn't believe it. They sound no better than a cheap CB kit IMO...sorry if that's brutally honest, but it's true. I wouldn't blame it on the camera mic either. Sure, mic's can pick up bad frequencies you wouldn't hear in person, but a properly tuned drum will still sound halfway decent.

I personally would much rather see someone who hasn't been playing long (or anyone for that matter) play a nice simple groove that has good time and feels good rather than something that is supposed to impress but dies a horrible death while doing so.

[Class A Drummer]

I'd definitely agree a good teacher is in order.

The run-down of what's wrong here:

1) Technique. Them hands are awful stiff, Class A. You really need to back off and go back to things like the free stroke at really low tempos and try to get comfortable incorporating rebound.

2) Connected to the above, dynamics. You're playing Gadd stuff. One of the key characteristics of Gadd's playing is his excellent dynamic control, his ability to really separate out his accents from his ghost notes. All of your notes are basically the same volume, you don't seem to have any solid conception of down and up strokes and where they should be falling inside the patterns you're playing. There's a lot more to parts than which order you hit with your left and right hands. So once you've got the hand of the free/gladstone full stroke then you need to start slowly examining the basics of moeller technique and gladstone down, up, tap and half strokes.

3) Tone. You've got lots of drums, but they all sound like crap - moreso than is forgivable on a camcorder microphone. Take all the toms off and spend all your drumhead money on making the snare sound good, then your bass drum. Once you have some spare change again then get to work on one of your toms. Work outwards from there. I'll forgive you the nasty cymbal sounds until you're old enough to work and can afford some better ones.

Tone isn't just about heads, either - it intersects with tuning and very particularly technique. If you go watch a bunch of student drummers playing the same kit and listen to their double-stroke and backbeat snare tones you'll notice that they almost invariably sound totally different on the same drum. If you want to sound like Gadd you're going to need to work on playing your double strokes so that they sound smooth and warm at low dynamics on basically any drum, at any tempo.

4) Time. You're juddering all over the place, this isn't the smooth rubato push/pull of a Gadd or Tony Williams solo. Great drummers can move the time around like an expensive car with an equally expensive driver - it's a sort of smooth, professional confident surge or dip. You sound more like a student driver in a manual 1982 Mazda 323 with one of the tyres completely flat - there's flopping, juddering and screeching all over the road going on everywhere.

Basically what's going wrong here is all the stuff that separates beginning players from intermediate and advanced ones. In my book an "intermediate" player is somebody who has all the understanding of material that you have but who also has the ability and understanding to at least rehearse existing material so that their technique and timing comes out cleanly. An advanced player is somebody who can do this intuitively on all the material they play, without having to practice it. The material you're trying to copy is stuff pulled out of the bag with great ease by an extremely advanced player, but you're not yet at the level of technique or timing that you can execute it convincingly even with a lot of practice.

My suggestion is that you forget about all this paradiddly latiny business for the moment and just dedicate yourself to working on material like Stick Control, Accents & Rebounds and Gary Chaffee's "Time functioning patterns" book. Believe me, this stuff is not (and I repeat: NOT) below your level. It is going to be stuff that you can work on productively for the next ten years and still see improvements. But if you keep trying to think of yourself as an advanced player who can tackle technically complex material then you're never going to develop the foundation that will actually let you achieve that level of playing.
1) Technique- I dont understand. with the techinique ive been using since i started, my playing has been fine. I can play fast with good power and everything. If you could show me a good grip maybe i could help myself.

2)- I agree completly, i need to work on the ghost notes and accents.

3) Tone- You are wrong. plain and simple about the sound. The drums sound amazing In my opinion and many others. I used a cheap digital camera witha recorder on it. When i watched my video, i thought the toms and snare both sounded terrible. (and if you are wondering about the ride cymbal, i put a towel on it to muffel the sound or else you wud not be able to hear the hi-hats.

4) Time- i know the time is off. I have never been good at time, but i have been working on it. Actually if you watch the video of this drum solo under the clinic section of drummerworld, you can see that steves time is also not steady.

I can definitly tell that most of the critism is true and that i need to work on it.

[fourstringdrums]

Dude, dont say that. You have NO IDEA how those books can be applied. For instance:

Look at Stick Control. Sure, RLRRLRLL might seem boring at first. However, put a swing ride pattern over that, use the L for your left hand, and have the R as either your left or right foot, with the other foot keeping a steady pulse. Sound easy? Try it.
Great example. Stick Control is an AMAZING book. There is so much you can do with it, you just have to expand your mind to the possibilities.

*edit*

A Class - You must have a pretty poor understanding of what good time is if you're saying that Steve's time is off when he plays that groove. Not everyone is metronome perfect, but when you compare your time to his time, his time, no matter what, you can always feel and keep up with what he's doing.

[Class A Drummer]

Funniest post this year. Without doubt. Funniest post all year.
please stop posting here. IMO your posts here have had nothing to to w/ the thread. Please give me some critism like most people post helpful hints or somthing.

[aahznightsky]

Found some made by great drummers i know of and started picking random things out from them. Alot of it was so easy and got me bored quickly.

That's the problem right there. We're saying that you couldn't possibly be playing the boring stuff that well, because then this video here would seem alot more solid.

[Class A Drummer]

Sorry man, I have to agree with the rest of the gang. Your timing is horrible.

Fist things first: GET A METRONOME! That will help you so much, you'll wonder why you ever stopped using it! I remember the first time I sat down with a metronome...grueling business, but well, well worth it in the end.

Second: Get a tacher. This will aslo help so much. My teacher has shown me so many things that I dont know how I would be playing (Oh, and Jere, if youre looking at this, post once in a while!). He showed me how to play funk, and I mean real linear style of playing, which is obviously what youre interested in (as was I).

Thrid: Advanced Funk Techniques, Stick Control, Syncopation for the Modern Drummer, and if youre feeling especially adventerous, Conversations in Clave. Look them up. Buy them. Use them (with a metronome, of course, and a good teacher :>) )

Fourth: As stated above, youre obviously interested in funk, so I HIGHLY recommend getting into the style with such bands as Galactic, Tower of Power (or anything with Garibaldi for that matter). You really need to get used to the style before attempting a solo in it.

Last: Tune those toms man. I just recorded myself with a crappy camera, and my snare/toms didnt sound NEARLY as horrible. My snare aactually sounded exactly how I wanted it.


And no, I wont post my video, because I OVERPLAYED (something which I swore I would never do!) the song. However, I may be posting the same song and me playing it in 2 weeks time (Galactic-Villified).

Oh, and Finns, that was brilliant.

Peace out, and remember my comments.
another good post i think. now my response.

First- I just got my metranome actually (day or 2 after i made this video). I know i need work on the timing, but then again so does steve gadd. go to the clinic section and check it out your self. When he is doing the solo his time isnt so hot either (but better than mine because when he switches around he keeps it constant enough).

Second- I have a teacher. An amazing teacher who is one of the best drummers i have ever seen in my life and easily better than 75% of the people on the "home" page of drummerworld. We do not have enough money to get another teacher, and i am not willing to stop taking lessons with my guy. Mainly because his spaces fill up fast.

Third- Sounds like a great book and i will look into it :D

Fourth- interesting.

Last- My toms sound amazing. The camera is true garbage. It sounds totally different from what they sound like in real life.

If you havent noticed, i am trying to take the criticism as well as possible, but there are just some things i dont agree with.

[Class A Drummer]

That's the problem right there. We're saying that you couldn't possibly be playing the boring stuff that well, because then this video here would seem alot more solid.
nah, this stuff is alot harder then what i played in those books.

[franklinj]

1) Technique- I dont understand. with the techinique ive been using since i started, my playing has been fine. I can play fast with good power and everything. If you could show me a good grip maybe i could help myself.

2)- I agree completly, i need to work on the ghost notes and accents.

3) Tone- You are wrong. plain and simple about the sound. The drums sound amazing In my opinion and many others. I used a cheap digital camera witha recorder on it. When i watched my video, i thought the toms and snare both sounded terrible. (and if you are wondering about the ride cymbal, i put a towel on it to muffel the sound or else you wud not be able to hear the hi-hats.

4) Time- i know the time is off. I have never been good at time, but i have been working on it. Actually if you watch the video of this drum solo under the clinic section of drummerworld, you can see that steves time is also not steady.

I can definitly tell that most of the critism is true and that i need to work on it.

1) Just because you THINK your technique is great, it is NOT. Your hands are moving eratically (sp?). The energy that is wasted with horrible technique could translate into much, MUCH more speed, power, and endurance with proper technique.

2) Refer to point one. Technique would make these techniques incredibly easier to pull off and understand.

3) We are not "WRONG, PLAIN AND SIMPLE". As ive said before, I recorded myself with a crappy home camera, and my toms did not sound bad at all, same with my snare. They all sounded decent, even with a crappy camera. They had the sound I was looking for; my snare had a low, funky pop, and my toms were controlled , punchy, and not too many overtones. Your toms should sound MUCH better, especially since that is a MAPLE SESSIONS kit.

4.) At least you admit your time is off. Saying that Gadds time is off though is just stupid. If his time was off, do you think he'd be able to complete successive one take studio sessions? Dont think so.

[Class A Drummer]

4.) At least you admit your time is off. Saying that Gadds time is off though is just stupid. If his time was off, do you think he'd be able to complete successive one take studio sessions? Dont think so.
take a look at the video. His timing is not constant. He speeds up and slows down alot. Dont belive me? check it out.

[TopCat]

Ignorance is not bliss, just so you know.

[franklinj]

I havent seen the video, but I guarantee hes doing either 32nd notes or hes purposely speeding up to give that part of the solo more "urgency". You know what I mean? That man is like a metronome.

[Class A Drummer]

I havent seen the video, but I guarantee hes doing either 32nd notes or hes purposely speeding up to give that part of the solo more "urgency". You know what I mean? That man is like a metronome.
he is. I was just stating that it is not a constant beat in perfect time.

[franklinj]

he is. I was just stating that it is not a constant beat in perfect time.

Well, that is NOT the case in your solo. Its just kind of eratic with the time.

Sorry man, I have to be blunt.

[fourstringdrums]

take a look at the video. His timing is not constant. He speeds up and slows down alot. Dont belive me? check it out.

I just watched it and I already said this above in case you didn't see it. No one is metronome perfect, but you should atleast be able to follow along with what the drummer is playing and keep up with the feel. That is what sets his video apart from yours in the time department. I also don't think you know what it is to have good time. There are fills he plays where he uses alot dynamics and plays against the time which may give the illusion to a beginner that he's speeding up or slowing down. Tap your finger consistantly while you watch the video, it will always come back on beat.

...although if you're already having time issues, that may not work that well. Sorry, just had to say it :)

[Class A Drummer]

Well, that is NOT the case in your solo. Its just kind of eratic with the time.

Sorry man, I have to be blunt.
i know and i agree 100%

[Class A Drummer]

Ba ZING!


Seriously man, really, REALLY work at a solo before posting it for the whole world to see.

Oh, and I doubt your drum teacher is as good or better than 75% than the featured drummers on this page. If he was really that good, we would have heard about him by now, dont you think?

Oh, and just because youre a great drummer, that doesnt mean your a great teacher.
well you will just have to take my word for it.

And he is a great teacher.

[fourstringdrums]

Oh, and just because youre a great drummer, that doesnt mean your a great teacher.

Exactly. My first teacher was IMO a better drummer than my current teacher (who is still a very talented drummer and musician in his own right), but his teaching style didn't suit me at all, and I personally think is inferior to that of my current teacher.

[TopCat]

well you will just have to take my word for it.

And he is a great teacher.
Show him the 'solo' and tell us what he thinks.

[franklinj]

Exactly. My first teacher was IMO a better drummer than my current teacher (who is still a very talented drummer and musician in his own right), but his teaching style didn't suit me at all, and I personally think is inferior to that of my current teacher.

Same thing with me, except my new teachers better than my old teacher too! Its a win win for me (except I have to drive about 20 mins to get to my lessons, and thats if it isnt rush hour!)

[meandhimcallitus]

I def. see this thread going into the 5-6ish pages...

And plz post the vid of Steve Gadd having bad timing... i would love to see it.
(The guy played with Chick Corea and Chick Corea doesn't play with whichever drummer he finds on the street especially, one with bad timing!) Ex: Vinnie Colaiuta, STEVE GADD. etc.

EDIT: yes i know am only contributing to this thread and making it longer

[fourstringdrums]

I def. see this thread going into the 5-6ish pages...

And plz post the vid of Steve Gadd having bad timing... i would love to see it.
(The guy played with Chick Corea and Chick Corea doesn't play whichever drummer he finds on the street especially, one with bad timing!) Ex: Vinnie Colaiuta, STEVE GADD. etc.

EDIT: yes i know am only contributing to this thread and making it longer

http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/Steve_Gaddlayingall.html

[Class A Drummer]

I def. see this thread going into the 5-6ish pages...

And plz post the vid of Steve Gadd having bad timing... i would love to see it.
(The guy played with Chick Corea and Chick Corea doesn't play with whichever drummer he finds on the street especially, one with bad timing!) Ex: Vinnie Colaiuta, STEVE GADD. etc.

EDIT: yes i know am only contributing to this thread and making it longer
clinic section. watch all the vids till u find it.

[pdp 9091]

About the tom tone thing. Class A's definition of great sounding toms might not be what everyone else sees as great sounding. I saw the video quality on all your videos and the video picture was very good so the sound of the toms on the video cant be that decieving (because cameras with good picture quality usually have good audio quality) so the case is you might just think your toms sound good when actually what you need to hear is a tom tuned by a professional (or someone who actual knows how to tune) and re-define in your mind what a "great" sounding tom sounds like.

[meandhimcallitus]

http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/Steve_Gaddlayingall.html

PLZ tell me you were kidding...

[fourstringdrums]

PLZ tell me you were kidding...

Nope, that's the groove he was trying to play and referring to as Gadd having bad time.

[pdp 9091]

clinic section. watch all the vids till u find it.


i think someone at your level listening to someone at gadds level play may seem sometimes off tempo to you. believe me....gadd knows what hes playing. If hes making any mistake that you can so easily pick out and be so confident on and compare it to your video, then he wouldnt be one of theee greatest drummers ever

[pdp 9091]

Nope, that's the groove he was trying to play and referring to as Gadd having bad time.


thats just too funny...haha

[Class A Drummer]

im just talking about the part where he stops going from ride to hi-hat, and it starts getting a little more intense.

[pdp 9091]

im just talking about the part where he stops going from ride to hi-hat, and it starts getting a little more intense.

i still dont see it..

[finnhiggins]

good post, and i agree with alot of it, but some i dont. I dont think i would be able to take much more then a baby or a small step back because after playing this kind of stuff, alot would seem boring. I took a look at some of the books they had at the local gc. Found some made by great drummers i know of and started picking random things out from them. Alot of it was so easy and got me bored quickly. I am searching for one that you are describing along with in the thread.

Right, here's the thing: if you are finding the exercises you NEED to be practicing "easy" and "boring" it's essentially because you do not understand what you're doing wrong when you play them or see how you need to work on these problems. If your teacher can't explain this to you then you need a new teacher.

Here's the thing - I don't find playing an 8th note hi-hat ostinato against bass drum on the "1" and snare drum on the "2" boring or easy, and I don't think I'm going out on a limb by suggesting I can play at a considerably more advanced level than you're showing here.

Thinking material is "below you" is the first sign that you've got something wrong in your head. Quite simply, the stuff that makes Dave Weckl or Steve Gadd sound good playing complex material is the exact same stuff that makes ?uestlove or Matt Chamberlain playing simple stuff sound great. More complexity or co-ordinational difficulty is not the measure of how hard something is to play - I'd argue the opposite. I find fast, difficult-looking accented paradiddle material much much EASIER than playing straight, simple grooves with perfect pocket and timing. And so do you, you just haven't noticed.

Now, moving onto technique. Your hands are working from the front and back at the wrong times, your fingers are getting involved when it should be all wrist... and the other way around... You're rushing arm movements, they're not smooth and deliberate... ditto your leg, there's a "snatching" movement going on there like you've really not got a comprehensive idea of where your foot should be going - and you're getting the timing problems associated with that. Really you need to break this stuff right back down to basics: focus on free strokes, the relationships between the different grips, working from the back of the hand, Moeller and accenting techniques with the hands. Work on a proper, understood bass drum technique with the feet, concentrating on lifting your leg well in advance of the strokes (an 8th note is a good measure in the 70-90bpm range) so you can get a good relaxed movement. Then you need to practice simple material like the Chaffee fatback exercises against very basic 8th note ostinatos until you start being able to properly co-ordinate your hand and foot movements so there's no more rushing, snatching or tension.

I'll do a technique video someday on this stuff, but no time soon - no camera, and it's not easy to get.

If your teacher is as good as you say he is then I can only suggest you're taking his advice about as well as you're taking ours, and you're as blind to his criticism as you are to ours.

Many of the problems on this video collapse down to a few simple issues:

1) You think you're too good for simple material. Despite being unable to deal with simple stuff like Steve Gadd can you think you're up to playing his parts.
2) You have some weird idea that quality of drumming is about what material you play, not how you play it.

It doesn't matter what exercises you are practicing, the goals should always, ALWAYS be the same: consistency of timing, control of tone and dynamics and good understanding of the musical purpose of every note. If you're instead concentrating on playing things faster or trying to learn more dense material then I have to say that you're never going to get better.

There are many, many more amazingly technical drummers out there than Steve Gadd. What separates Gadd from the rest is his feel, his consistency of timing, the way he makes his particular tone integrate together as a musical instrument. If you want to tackle really technically complex parts you could take a look at some Tony Williams. But please, don't! I've got no urge to hear Agitation played like this. The point is that Steve plays considerably more simple material than Tony, he just makes it sound really, really good because of the quality his playing has down to every tiny little stroke.

If you really love Steve Gadd then this is what you need to focus on. Not more paradiddles, 32nd notes or triplet combinations or whatever.

[meandhimcallitus]

Nope, that's the groove he was trying to play and referring to as Gadd having bad time.

I understand how ClassA can get confused on that groove. Especially since Gadd tries to make you lose the 1and plays in a very free timeish(sp?) kinda of way towards the end.
But thats poor excuse to say Steve Gadd has bad timing. psh..

[franklinj]

I understand how ClassA can get confused on that groove. Especially since Gadd tries to make you lose the 1and plays in a very free timeish(sp?) kinda of way towards the end.
But thats poor excuse to say Steve Gadd has bad timing. psh..

I think he shifts the groove over one beat, and thats what gives it that "out of time, but not really" feel. Try it sometimes, its really, really weird.

[timebandit]

How about this.......just change the "G" in GADD to a "B" and it will all make more sense!

[jazzsnob]

A lot of teachers lose students by being honest with them. I don't think your teacher has been completely honest with you. He has been letting you work on advanced things when you are not able to play simply well. You should ask to be hones with you about your technique and to not let you get away with mediocre understanding of concepts. If you refuse to practice these things that are "boring" to you, you will hit a wall and will NEVER be able to get work. Good luck with whatever you do.

[Loading...]

Class A, you are not too good for the books you've been picking up. Your posts should not consist of rebuttles to statements made by members. Take the criticism and run with it. All of this will amount to more than your drum teacher has taught thus far.

[DrummerBen1]

work with a metronome and invest in some new skins for your kit as well

good luck.

[Bernhard]

I have the strong feeling that drums are just the wrong instrument for you....

What about violin - for sure more challenging. In the first lesson the teacher will show you how to emulate and ameliorate the playing of Yehudi Menuhin...

Bernhard

[pdp 9091]

I have the strong feeling that drums are just the wrong instrument for you....

What about violin - for sure more challenging. In the first lesson the teacher will show you how to emulate and ameliorate the playing of Yehudi Menuhin...

Bernhard



hahaha yehudi menuhin!! thats funny and i dont even know who he is,,,,,,,hhaaha
or myabe ive had a lil to much to drink

[Bernhard]

hahaha yehudi menuhin!! thats funny and i dont even know who he is,,,,,,,hhaaha

that's the Steve Gadd of the violin...

B.

[pdp 9091]

that's the Steve Gadd of the violin...

B.


aaahhhh....like YO YO Ma is to the cello!

[Pearlrules]

I have the strong feeling that drums are just the wrong instrument for you....

Wow Bernhard, I'm surprised you said that. That was pretty harsh.

No I think this kid has potential, but he won't get anywhere if he doesnt listen to these other members on the forum and take their criticism seriously.

[Bernhard]

Wow Bernhard, I'm surprised you said that. That was pretty harsh.

No I think this kid has potential, but he won't get anywhere if he doesnt listen to these other members on the forum and take their criticism seriously.

don't get it - what's wrong with violin??

Bernhard

[Pearlrules]

don't get it - what's wrong with violin??

Bernhard

No, nothin is wrong with violin.
You see, this kid probably loves playing the drums...
And he would probably hate to hear the Founder of Drummerworld say somethin like that to him, i think lol

[brittc89]

No, nothin is wrong with violin.
You see, this kid probably loves playing the drums...
And he would probably hate to hear the Founder of Drummerworld say somethin like that to him, i think lol
Im pretty sure that would be the first time that he truly respected anyones opinion or criticism, so I wouldnt be to worried about that anytime soon.
I agree with a lot of the things being said. Work with a metrenome and please dont tell me, "Well steve gadds tempo fluctuates." It wasnt any fluctuation in tempo, it was just a lacking in any sort of groove. You really need to work on your basics, which you claim to be too easy and boring, before you move on to this difficult stuff. Yes, making the easy stuff sound perfect is boring, but its something you have to go through or else the hard stuff sounds hard, way harder than it should, and just not very good. Im gonna be perectly honest with you, it just isnt there. I would post something that youre great at, not something that just sounds like it is way outta your league. Keep on working man, but make sure you use your practice time wisely.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

i must say, i clicked on class a's link in his sig a while back and wasn't impressed. i

didn't post anything because i wasn't about to say that i thought it was awesome, but at

the same time i didn't have the heart to criticize either.

frankly class a, i don't understand why you're being so defensive of the constructive

criticism being given to you. you should be thankful instead of trying to justify your

means. i liked topcat's suggestion a while back concerning your teacher in which he

suggested you play the clip for him, and tell us what he has to say. will you oblige?

[drummersgroove]

I noticed you mentioned Gadd's playing was out of time, or words to that effect. After seeing his video and yours, it should be clearly apparent who's time keeping was off. Gadd's video was 100% on it. Get a metronome, and use it ALL the time.

[T.Underhill]

It's never too late to try out the Kazoo.

[Davidb59]

I didn't mean the basics of the beat, I meant the basics of drumming.

Ouch!!!!!

20......................

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

May I suggest he takes up the oboe? Possibly of another variety but I'll probably get told off for saying the full phrase.

Look Class_A. You're getting a full wealth of advice on these threads. But every time you come back with a useless and indefensible excuse. You have a very defensive attitude, so rather than accepting criticism, you feel like it's a personal attack. Here's the deal constructive criticism is not a personal attack. The other day, for instance, a certain forum member made the remark that he thought that my timing was out. Fair enough, no gripes there. I know. And it's only because he said that bluntly, and I understood and took it on board, that I can start to improve my timing.

For everybody who says you're awesome on youtube, there are five that say you're not doing so well. Here's the deal: stop listening to what you want to hear. It's not going to get you anywhere in life. Saying that you think material is below you, or that you are somehow better than Tre Cool (who is actually a bloody good drummer, despite playing 'beginner beats' and 'beginner fills' he has an excellent feel for the music and is probably more than capable of tackling the material you attempted presenting here) is going to make anybody with any sense of maturity think you are just an arrogant kid. If you continue with this arrogance, Paul, any friends you might have will eventually realise it and continue on out of there. Arrogant people are, as a rule, arseholes. Arseholes don't get what they want in the end. They get it thrown back in their face.

So: quit the arrogant attitude, listen to what we're saying. I mean, for God's sake, BERNHARD has said something. And he's the freakin' admin. I have respect for Bernhard and all the posters above in this thread. If you knew what side your bread was buttered you'd start listening to what they say. Most of them (Finn, Brittc89 amongst others) are great players, and those who aren't such great players, actually have the mental capacity and objective analysis skills to help you. So freaking listen!

And Britt, I love your new avatar. One of my favourite movies.

[Drummer Karl]

1) Technique- I dont understand. with the techinique ive been using since i started, my playing has been fine. I can play fast with good power and everything. If you could show me a good grip maybe i could help myself.

2)- I agree completly, i need to work on the ghost notes and accents.

3) Tone- You are wrong. plain and simple about the sound. The drums sound amazing In my opinion and many others. I used a cheap digital camera witha recorder on it. When i watched my video, i thought the toms and snare both sounded terrible. (and if you are wondering about the ride cymbal, i put a towel on it to muffel the sound or else you wud not be able to hear the hi-hats.

4) Time- i know the time is off. I have never been good at time, but i have been working on it. Actually if you watch the video of this drum solo under the clinic section of drummerworld, you can see that steves time is also not steady.

I can definitly tell that most of the critism is true and that i need to work on it.

ARGH! How can a kid be so stubborn???

1) I think you understand very well! You think your technique would be so fine and your playing, too. and now we say to you what to make better. I`ve seen your hand technique, too and I really have to agree with everyone here: Learn a better technique, watch out for "Stickcontrol" and Moellertechnique. And please read THIS: Your technique looks not just awful in drummers eyes, it will also be VERY, VERY dangerous and painful for you if you don`t stop playing with such a hand technique!!! We in Germany say "Sehnenscheidenentzündung" for this. It is a inflammation of the sinew in your handjoint. It is one of the most painful things. I didn`t have it but my mother and she was really crying when she had it. So also see the physical consequences if you use a bad technique.

2) NO! First, you work on your hand technique and on rudiments....

3) I think this is a personal preference. If you like it like this, do it.
I personally loved the idea with the towel! With the Towel, the cymbal produced a very "Gaddish" sound I think.....but the rest of the kit sound I didn`t like so much....

4) As I said, work on your timing, USE A METRONOME!!!

and about Gadd`s timing: Clearly, nobody`s timing is PERFECT but are you kidding?! Gadd`s timing is awesome. -point-

Karl

[Ufipman!]

good post, and i agree with alot of it, but some i dont. I dont think i would be able to take much more then a baby or a small step back because after playing this kind of stuff, alot would seem boring. I took a look at some of the books they had at the local gc. Found some made by great drummers i know of and started picking random things out from them. Alot of it was so easy and got me bored quickly. I am searching for one that you are describing along with in the thread.

Obviously some people like to kick you when you're down... I've read a few of your posts and I wanted to kick you in the teeth. But you have the balls to show what you can do even if it's lacking technique and musicality. You need chops, but more you need groove.

You never responded to my post and I still recommend counting in time or at least be able to vocalize what you play (in time).

If I walked into Guitar Center and checked out the drum books I'd probably get stumped eventually, but for you they are all easy books... you are not realizing something. figure it out. You reach out to us but do not listen.

Here's a real horoscope for Sagittarius from today, are you Sagittarius????
"The moon in Aquarius is affecting nearly every one's emotions today, making most people more aloof than usual. For you this particular influence will be an advantage, and will help sort an emotional matter, giving you the distance you need and enabling you to see the wider picture!"

[Sticktrick]

Hey Class A!

The point is not that your playing sucks - which it does, no question about it. The point is that you don't realize that it sucks. See, there are a few different stages of development in a musical life - Finn refered to them earlier as beginner, intermediate and advanced. Let me get into more detail to help you out here:

1.: Stage of Development is called Unconscious inability. This means that you don't have any abilities but you don't know that you don't have any abilities. This is - sadly - the point of development you're at right now

2.: Comes Conscious Inability. You still don't have any ability but you'er aware of that fact now and can work on it

3.:Conscious Ability: You have worked on your weaknesses and have gained ability. But you're still very conscious about it all and think too much whilst playing. This is a high level - technically it might be the highest.

4.: Unconscious Ability: You have complete control of your instrument in all aspects of playing and you can play in any style, any tempo and any musical situation without even having to think about it. Your techique is just the tool you use to execute your musical ideas. You don't have to think any more about what you play, you just play. Very very few people reach this point.

5.: Mastery. This is, where only the fewest of the fewest arrive. It is a point at which no longer the instrument plays a role but only musical expression. The only persons I could think of as true masters would be Tony Williams, Buddy Rich and Vinnie Colaiuta.



Now you're prime goal should be to learn about your weaknesses. And this starts by listening to guys like Finn - who is probably around category No4. Read his first post. Copy it into MS Word. Set the Font Size to 1000. Print it as a poster. Wrap it around your drumset and every time you sit there, READ it and WORK on it. Seriously.

And about your teacher: Play the solo for him. If tells you its good, dump him. No joke.

If you were my student, we'd start of at absolute zero. Because that is were you have to start over since you obviously have no clue about what good technique even means.

And about Gadds Video: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me you were making a joke about his timing. You cannot possibly be serious about this. Absolutely not.


P.S.: I really don't intend to bash you here. Absolutely not. But sometimes the truth just hurts - same things (and worse) happened to me when I was at your age. Really: everybody here just wants to help you and you do have talent for sure. Now is just the time to really cut the crap, take off the pink sunglasses that make everything look great and do the real work. You can do it! And around here is the greatest communitiy on the whole freaking net and they are all on your side willing to help you!

AND: EVERBODY startet out at Level 1 - including Gadd, Vinnie and Tony. The question is: Who will make it out of that Level and into the higher ones....

[Jay.B.]

1.: Stage of Development is called Unconscious inability. This means that you don't have any abilities but you don't know that you don't have any abilities. This is - sadly - the point of development you're at right now

2.: Comes Conscious Inability. You still don't have any ability but you're aware of that fact now and can work on it

3.:Conscious Ability: You have worked on your weaknesses and have gained ability. But you're still very conscious about it all and think too much whilst playing. This is a high level - technically it might be the highest.

4.: Unconscious Ability: You have complete control of your instrument in all aspects of playing and you can play in any style, any tempo and any musical situation without even having to think about it. Your techique is just the tool you use to execute your musical ideas. You don't have to think any more about what you play, you just play. Very very few people reach this point.

5.: Mastery. This is, where only the fewest of the fewest arrive. It is a point at which no longer the instrument plays a role but only musical expression. The only persons I could think of as true masters would be Tony Williams, Buddy Rich and Vinnie Colaiuta......

Okay I have found my place on that list, I'm honestly at number 2, maybe I'll reach number 3 in a year or two

as for what everybody else is commenting on, I'm speechless...

[TitanSound]

Class A...

I have been playing for near on 15 years this year and have actually gone back to basics in regard to my playing. I was lucky in that I realised I was trying to do too much with bad habits I had accumulated over those years of playing. Its never too late to re-evaluate your playing style and maybe admit to yourself that you are not as good as you thought you were.

Basic rudiments and exercises may be boring but I would rather be bored for a few months and notice a dramatic improvement in my playing than be bored for 10 minutes and try to do something I am not properly capable of and get frustrated.

Don’t see any comments made here as negative or condescending as I can see nobody here who is being disrespectful or going out of their way to insult you. I imagine that if you followed people’s advice and posted in 6 months time after listening to what everybody has mentioned people will be proud that you have taken their advice on board and that you are now a better drummer for it.


Good luck.

Edit: Maybe post in This Thread (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12134) with some objectives you want to acheive. Then in a couple of months when the thread is revived you can see what you have accomplished, that was my whole reason for starting the thread...so we can keep a check on each other.

[finnhiggins]

And this starts by listening to guys like Finn - who is probably around category No4.

I make it a #3. I can play alright, but it does tax my poor little brain...

[Stu_Strib]

Ok, so I'm glad everyone understood where I was heading with my first posts. I hope not to deteriorate it further, but I feel I need to substantiate my initial comments with a response to the other comments made after mine:



1) Technique- I dont understand. with the techinique ive been using since i started, my playing has been fine. I can play fast with good power and everything. If you could show me a good grip maybe i could help myself.

I've been playing for 20 + years and I am thankful my technique has evolved "since I started". You need to change or you will continue to have timing and dynamic issues. Playing "fast with good power" is not important at all at this stage. You need to play slow with good timing.



2)- I agree completly, i need to work on the ghost notes and accents.

See, again, you are in way over your head. Forget accents, and ghost notes for now. You need to be able to play simple single strokes evenly. I would bet that if you just played 8 8th notes at say, 100 bpm, with one hand, you couldn't play them in time and evenly, let alone playing them with alternating hands. Crawl Walk Run. You are a 8-month-old trying to run. Once you can play even simple single strokes, you can start thinking about the three stick heights, couble strokes, grace notes, etc. etc.



3) Tone- You are wrong. plain and simple about the sound. The drums sound amazing In my opinion and many others. I used a cheap digital camera witha recorder on it. When i watched my video, i thought the toms and snare both sounded terrible. (and if you are wondering about the ride cymbal, i put a towel on it to muffel the sound or else you wud not be able to hear the hi-hats.

I wouldn't blame the camera. Those drums sound awful, even if Steve Gadd were to sit down and play them. I don't understand the need for a towel. It seems that nearly every drummer in the past 100 years has been able to play well enough that the hi-hat doesn't get drowned out by the ride.



4) Time- i know the time is off. I have never been good at time, but i have been working on it. Actually if you watch the video of this drum solo under the clinic section of drummerworld, you can see that steves time is also not steady.


"I've never been good at time" should be a huge cloud hanging over your own sense of self-worth as a drummer. If you aren't good at time, then why in the world are you playing drums? Isn't this the single most important ability of any drummer?

About Steve Gadd's timing....the reason you think it is bad timing is because you don't understand the form and structure of the lick he is playing, nor can you appreciate the phrasing. Phrasing comes much further down the line (at least for my students) so get your time solid first, and those singles even, then we can talk about phrasing.

I have a constructive suggestion that will help you right away. Buy Tommy Igoe's "Getting Started on Drums" instead of all the other, more advanced books that everyone has recommended. You seriously need to scale back to the absolute basics, even down to how to setup drums (based on the video), how to tune drums, and how to sit and play comfortably.

If you are 'bored' by simple playing, you need to watch Tommy Igoe play the "money beat". Bass drum on 1 and 3, snare drum on 2 and 4. If that is boring to you, then you obviously haven't mastered that basic foundation and the 1,000s of logical permutations that follow.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Category #1 or #2 for me. I'm just not a particularly good drummer. But at least I'm aware of that.

I realised this morning that my playing just isn't that good. My technique isn't bad but it isn't good either and as things currently stand, I'm not going to make much more progress carrying on this way. So I've gone right back this morning and decided to work on the free stroke, Moeller and all those things I should've done years ago. All to a click on a practice pad, at 60 or 80 BPM. In other words, I've done and will continue to do this until I'm happier with my technical playing.

It's realisations like this that make us better on our chosen instrument(s). We need to be objective about our playing, even if it means we're tough on ourselves sometimes. It's the same with anything, self-realisation is the first key to recovery (or in this case, improvement). It can also be the hardest stage to really actualise. Actualise it. Listen. Do it. You might end up a better player and person if you did.

[Sticktrick]

I realised this morning that my playing just isn't that good. My technique isn't bad but it isn't good either and as things currently stand, I'm not going to make much more progress carrying on this way. So I've gone right back this morning and decided to work on the free stroke, Moeller and all those things I should've done years ago. All to a click on a practice pad, at 60 or 80 BPM. In other words, I've done and will continue to do this until I'm happier with my technical playing.



If you really want to advance as a drummer..... check out this weblog I'm writing and jump on board. Travelling alone is not half as much fun as having teammates.

and stu: what was ............................... be supposed to mean??

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I'm reading your weblog and I'm going to jump on the bandwagon. I just have some serious focus problems. But I agree, charting progress is one of the best tools for improvement.

[Sticktrick]

The solution to all serious focus problems: cocain.

...


Hey, is it allowed to make jokes around here?

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

The solution to all serious focus problems: cocain.

...


Hey, is it allowed to make jokes around here?

Heh. I think Ritalin might be a slightly better idea in my case. To be honest.

[Davidb59]

How do we find the weblog?

[Sticktrick]

Yes, Ritalin is also cheaper. But I always go for the snow. Once you're a fan of winter sports, you will always be!

Hey and now back to serious and back to topic.

[Sticktrick]

How do we find the weblog?

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16348

Here it is!

[Class A Drummer]

How about this.......just change the "G" in GADD to a "B" and it will all make more sense!
o boy that might cause a little contraversy.

[Class A Drummer]

Class A, you are not too good for the books you've been picking up. Your posts should not consist of rebuttles to statements made by members. Take the criticism and run with it. All of this will amount to more than your drum teacher has taught thus far.
i know, but if it is boring, i lose interest. And drumming is about having fun.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

i know, but if it is boring, i lose interest. And drumming is about having fun.

And you'll eventually give up because you're not making any improvement. Not fun either. And more long term.

[ege_the_drummer]

i know, but if it is boring, i lose interest. And drumming is about having fun.

I know exactly where you're coming from, I used to be the same way. But trust me, looking through those books, even if its 10 minutes a day, will help you in the long run. If it wasn't for the books I have, I wouldn't be anywhere close to where I am now in terms of both reading and playing. Sit down and use them, even though it might (and probably will) be boring. You'll thank yourself in the long run.

BTW MFB brings up a good point. If you just do what ever you want, your technique (and playing) will go nowhere and may even get worse.

[Bernhard]

Ok - I give up...

No drums, no violin......so perhabs the triangle??

B.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I still stand by my pink oboe assertion...

And I'm KIDDING. Triangle would be much better.

[ege_the_drummer]

I still stand by my pink oboe assertion...

And I'm KIDDING. Triangle would be much better.

Or how about the cowbell? Everyone needs more cowbell!

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I think this says it all really:

[ege_the_drummer]

I think this says it all really:

LOL. MFB gets the funniest post of the day award.
Sorry Class A, couldnt resist.

[Davidb59]

Hey Class A!

The point is not that your playing sucks - which it does, no question about it.

I think this is the funniest post of the day. A classic and beautifully delivered line.

[IDDrummer]

Class A, I have to say I've never encountered a musician with a more stunning lack of self awareness.

Drumming is indeed about having fun, but it won't be fun for long if you don't improve and no good musicians want to play with you. An analogy that comes to mind is snowboarding - it's supposed to be fun, but if you suck so bad you fall down every time you step on the board (and you won't accept anyone's help) it's gonna get old fast.

The real problem is that you are steadfastly unaware that you are falling down, even as people try to help you up.

[Class A Drummer]

And you'll eventually give up because you're not making any improvement. Not fun either. And more long term.
wrong. im always improving.

[Class A Drummer]

Class A, I have to say I've never encountered a musician with a more stunning lack of self awareness.

Drumming is indeed about having fun, but it won't be fun for long if you don't improve and no good musicians want to play with you. An analogy that comes to mind is snowboarding - it's supposed to be fun, but if you suck so bad you fall down every time you step on the board (and you won't accept anyone's help) it's gonna get old fast.

The real problem is that you are steadfastly unaware that you are falling down, even as people try to help you up.
actually, i once snowboared for like 5 hours, 2 days striaght. Fell 2-3 times a min, got hurt alot, but it was fun as hell. i still love it.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

wrong. im always improving.

Well, I for one, am not seeing it. You'll reach a plateau in a few weeks, even if you are improving and you won't be able to get over that one. Believe me.

And are you actually reading half of these posts? All indications lead to no.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

actually, i once snowboared for like 5 hours, 2 days striaght. Fell 2-3 times a min, got hurt alot, but it was fun as hell. i still love it.

seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. two to three times a minute eh? falling 1,800 times must have been a bummer.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. two to three times a minute eh? falling 1,800 times must have been a bummer.

You'd have hoped it would have broken his jaw or at least his hands... but alas...

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

And are you actually reading half of these posts? All indications lead to no.

i would have to agree. either that or class a is extremely stubborn in his ways and would

rather continue on a faulty path rather than admit mistakes and go back to the basics.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

You'd have hoped it would have broken his jaw or at least his hands... but alas...

hahaha.

alas...





.

.

[IDDrummer]

actually, i once snowboared for like 5 hours, 2 days striaght. Fell 2-3 times a min, got hurt alot, but it was fun as hell. i still love it.

Wow, you could have missed the point by a little more...

Um, no, I guess you couldn't.

You are beginning to smell like a troll. I think I'll step out of here now and get some fresh air.

[ege_the_drummer]

You'd have hoped it would have broken his jaw or at least his hands... but alas...

Or perhaps knock some sense into him....
Class A, accepting constructive criticism might help you. You'd be suprised what it can do for you...

[finnhiggins]

wrong. im always improving.

No, you're always learning new material, which in your wierd world you seem to think means improvement. The standard at which you play that material is what I'd expect from a beginner after a few weeks of lessons, it's just harder material than I'd give them.

There's no way I'd be telling students to learn Gadd licks if they were at your level of playing. Quite simply it's like asking a learner driver to get behind the wheel in a F1 race - maybe funny just to see how spectacularly they fail, but beyond that there's not a chance in hell of it ever coming out correctly.

Here's the one single undisputable fact that you need to get through your skull:

What separates a good drummer from a bad one is their playing quality, not the difficulty of the parts they play.

A great drummer sounds good playing anything. A terrible drummer sounds terrible playing anything, as you've kindly demonstrated with such energy for us over the last two days.

You have some very silly ideas about practice, too. Practice should, ideally, be fun for you. But it's not playing. If you want to have fun, play - I recommend to all my students that they take dedicated playing time every day as well as their practice time, and that they start thinking of it as different things. Playing is fun. Practice should be fun, but the reality of practice is that if you're not working on stuff that you can't do then you're not practicing. And that can get frustrating, and therefore not so fun.

I'm going to ask you again Class A... why do you like Steve Gadd? The parts he plays are not the most co-ordinationally difficult out there. Why aren't you posting horrible videos with titles like "Me playing a Virgil Donati solo"? What makes Gadd a great drummer is the quality with which he plays, something you seem to think is below you. If it's not below Steve Gadd then how the hell is it below YOU?

[Jay.B.]

Come on now guys, save your energies for practicing haha anyway, I'm sure if he was to take any notice it would've happened by now, some people just don't want to be helped, so why not just leave him the hell alone and save all your words of wisdom for somebody who would actually appreciate them, or at least understand them :-)

[pdp 9091]

does this thread mark the firery crash of Class A's presence on this discussion forum? haha


but this thread actually has helped me myself. Unlike Class A i admit i have not improved as rapidly as i should have in the past year. This is a result of me not practicing rudiments nearly as much as i should. So today i got back into rudiments and started back with the basics even thought it might be BORING it is better in the long run as so many people have said. I am only 16 (only 1 year older than Class A) and i can relate to him because sometimes i feel that i should try only hard stuff and try to play it but when i cant i get frusterated. That is what made me think. Trying the advanced stuff where i am way over my head, it is only hurting me. I went on VicFirth.com (which you too Class A should do also) and practice all the simple rudiments (single stroke fours, triple stroke rolls, paradiddles, ect...) and apply them with different BPM for timing which even you say your not good at. Dont just be arrogant when it comes to critisism. Everyone on here is trying to help. Read every post and do what people with more experiance tell you. They know what their talking about

[pdp 9091]

No, you're always learning new material, which in your wierd world you seem to think means improvement. The standard at which you play that material is what I'd expect from a beginner after a few weeks of lessons, it's just harder material than I'd give them.

There's no way I'd be telling students to learn Gadd licks if they were at your level of playing. Quite simply it's like asking a learner driver to get behind the wheel in a F1 race - maybe funny just to see how spectacularly they fail, but beyond that there's not a chance in hell of it ever coming out correctly.

Here's the one single undisputable fact that you need to get through your skull:

What separates a good drummer from a bad one is their playing quality, not the difficulty of the parts they play.

A great drummer sounds good playing anything. A terrible drummer sounds terrible playing anything, as you've kindly demonstrated with such energy for us over the last two days.

You have some very silly ideas about practice, too. Practice should, ideally, be fun for you. But it's not playing. If you want to have fun, play - I recommend to all my students that they take dedicated playing time every day as well as their practice time, and that they start thinking of it as different things. Playing is fun. Practice should be fun, but the reality of practice is that if you're not working on stuff that you can't do then you're not practicing. And that can get frustrating, and therefore not so fun.

I'm going to ask you again Class A... why do you like Steve Gadd? The parts he plays are not the most co-ordinationally difficult out there. Why aren't you posting horrible videos with titles like "Me playing a Virgil Donati solo"? What makes Gadd a great drummer is the quality with which he plays, something you seem to think is below you. If it's not below Steve Gadd then how the hell is it below YOU?


awesome awesome post finn....just awesome

[DrummerBen1]

Class A

I recommend that you look into all these lessons IF you want to improve.

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/domfamularo.html

[jazzsnob]

Do you have any recordings of yourself with a band?

[theduke86]

Class A-
Hey man, I'm glad it looks like the advice of our esteemed members is starting to rub off a little bit- your ego is checking itself a little bit but we still have some places to go. I don't want to say anything honest, it's been said already..
I have no doubt your teacher can play. However, your improvement from the last paradiddle Gadd video is not very much. I doubt your teacher is really helping you very much. You need to dump him, and get into the serious basics. Here's the thing- I don't think the basics ever really stop. Today, I was working Stick Control front to back at 60 bpm... in eighth notes on a practice pad. I don't think it's terribly rude of me to say that I think that my drumming is at a different level that yours is- but I still work on these basics, every day, for hours at a time, often. Get a teacher who will show you the different ways to use the Ted Reed book... You need to surrender your ego to get better.
If you love to challenge yourself and play like Gadd, why don't you just slow the solo down to 40 bpm with a metronome and count out loud? I guarantee you, if you do that for a month, this will sound better.
If you're practicing for thirty minutes a day, say, why don't you work on the absolute basics for twenty minutes, then shed that Gadd thing for ten? Go through the Time Functioning Patterns book, maybe the chapin and stone books as well... I promise you'll sound better quickly. I also promise that drums get MUCH more fun when you start to improve. If you don't have to worry about your technique, then you can start doing cool stuff that is quite a bit more fun than worrying about your paradiddles.... you can work on music, isn't that more fun? Man, if you ever need any help or suggestions, or anything to do with drumming, I'm more than happy to help, andrewdyrda@hotmail.com
I also have to mention- those Gadd solos are a tough reading challenge, you get some props for being able to read it. Have fun with it, man. If you want to do music for a career, shut your mouth, open your ears.

[Paul Quin]

This thread proves the value in this forum. Aside from a few shots (and I am not saying that Class A didn't open himself up - some of his statements look like a big bullseye, and there's no shortage of sharpshooters on this site), there is some excellent advice here. In fact, maybe by inflaming the ire of more seasoned players Class A is actually developing a brilliant strategy to get thousands of dollars of free advice! If so - good for you.

There is little more to say: Stu, the Duke, Finn and others have done a great job of suggesting where Class A needs to go. Bernhard and MFB have also suggested where Class A needs to go but that wasn't so constructive, although pretty damn funny! I will only add a couple of comments:

If indeed all those books you are looking at are too easy and you feel the need to tackle complex Gadd stuff you must be an incredible reader. I have a six year old who is an incredible reader (english not music) but I still suggests she reads the Magic Tree House rather than delve in a little Saul Bellow. She may able to read the words but that doesn't mean she understands the meaning and the nuances. You should take a step back into the drumming equivalent of the Magic Tree House. If you could play bass drum on the 1 and the 3 and snare drum on the 2 and 4 - and play straight eighth notes on the hi-hat -and keep the tempo and use dynamics, people would be much more impressed by your playing. If you can do that - post it and see what people say! Think Back in Black or Kashmir. I suspect you would not say out loud that those things are beneath you. If you beleive they are then nail them and video it - people will praise you on this very site - honest!

Second, I think you have done a much better job of taking criticism in this post that in your last - but there is still more than a strain of resistance. Try to get rid of it. And under all circumstances and every situation NEVER use a statement like "Steve Gadd and I . . ."

Paul

[finnhiggins]

And under all circumstances and every situation NEVER use a statement like "Steve Gadd and I . . ."

Unless you're Bernhard and intend to follow up with "... look rather similar"

[pdp 9091]

Unless you're Bernhard and intend to follow up with "... look rather similar"


haha good one

20 characters

[HardcoreLogo]

Hummm....well I think everyone has pretty much nailed the technical aspects of your playing, and I would have to agree......though I would'nt use the word "suck", I just think you priorities are are a little mixed up......Let me ask you this.......
Why Steve Gadd?
Is it because........
A) Steve has a sound a feel that really speaks to me, when I here him play, there is just a vibe that is all his own and when I think who I would someday to sound like the most, it's Steve.........OR

B) My drum teacher tells me he is like, the best ever, so I took some of his more simplistic concepts, watered them down and hacked through them, so I must be a great drummer too, I mean who will notice the silly little details like feel and tempo........

I hope A) was the answer, because THAT you can work with......go back to those "easy" methods and play until you start to hear what you love about Gadd poke through........this may take weeks, months or a lifetime......it's a long ride, but well worth the trip.

P.S. I used to be more like B) until I realized all those "easy" steps I skipped were the essence of good drumming.........I just played like 13 paying shows last month, and all that was required was Solid Time, Good Feel and Playing for the Music.....everything else is a bonus.......learn to play good music first, the rest will come with hard work............

[YAMAHA DRUMMER]

Hummm....well I think everyone has pretty much nailed the technical aspects of your playing, and I would have to agree......though I would'nt use the word "suck", I just think you priorities are are a little mixed up......Let me ask you this.......
Why Steve Gadd?
Is it because........
A) Steve has a sound a feel that really speaks to me, when I here him play, there is just a vibe that is all his own and when I think who I would someday to sound like the most, it's Steve.........OR

B) My drum teacher tells me he is like, the best ever, so I took some of his more simplistic concepts, watered them down and hacked through them, so I must be a great drummer too, I mean who will notice the silly little details like feel and tempo........

I hope A) was the answer, because THAT you can work with......go back to those "easy" methods and play until you start to hear what you love about Gadd poke through........this may take weeks, months or a lifetime......it's a long ride, but well worth the trip.

P.S. I used to be more like B) until I realized all those "easy" steps I skipped were the essence of good drumming.........I just played like 13 paying shows last month, and all that was required was Solid Time, Good Feel and Playing for the Music.....everything else is a bonus.......learn to play good music first, the rest will come with hard work............
i like this post
a really good one...

[Class A Drummer]

seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. two to three times a minute eh? falling 1,800 times must have been a bummer.
i guess thats a little exageration. but you know how it was when you started. I personally could not stand up on flat ground. took me a while to learn balance.

[Class A Drummer]

Wow, you could have missed the point by a little more...

Um, no, I guess you couldn't.

You are beginning to smell like a troll. I think I'll step out of here now and get some fresh air.
no i didnt miss it. i just think he is wrong. If you suck at drumming, it can still be fun. when i started, i could barly do quarter notes. But it was still fun.

[Class A Drummer]

Or perhaps knock some sense into him....
Class A, accepting constructive criticism might help you. You'd be suprised what it can do for you...
i am accepting it. some of it. but not all. I am not accepting parts i disagree w/, which is mainly about the tones of my drums.

[Class A Drummer]

Class A

I recommend that you look into all these lessons IF you want to improve.

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/domfamularo.html
been there. watched all of em atleast 3 times.

[pdp 9091]

i am accepting it. some of it. but not all. I am not accepting parts i disagree w/, which is mainly about the tones of my drums.


if you have everyone on here telling you that your drums sound untuned then why dont you ask yourself: hmmm...theyre right and im wrong because theres so many people telling me

been there. watched all of em atleast 3 times.


then why dont you use them and improve upon watching them?

[Class A Drummer]

You'd have hoped it would have broken his jaw or at least his hands... but alas...
no, my worst fall was one of my last ones.

I face planted and when i hit the ground, my legs bent and the boart hit me in the back of the head.

[Class A Drummer]

if you have everyone on here telling you that your drums sound untuned then why dont you ask yourself: hmmm...theyre right and im wrong because theres so many people telling me




then why dont you use them and improve upon watching them?
well here goes 1000 more posts about how they agree with you.

my answer is because they have not actually heard them. The camera made the sound so horrible i also thought to my self how bad they sounded.

[Class A Drummer]

if you have everyone on here telling you that your drums sound untuned then why dont you ask yourself: hmmm...theyre right and im wrong because theres so many people telling me




then why dont you use them and improve upon watching them?
done it. just not shown well in my vid.

[pdp 9091]

well here goes 1000 more posts about how they agree with you.

my answer is because they have not actually heard them. The camera made the sound so horrible i also thought to my self how bad they sounded.


so you dont have one single doubt in your mind that your toms tuning could be a little off because if the sound quality was SO BAD then why wasnt the video quality

[Class A Drummer]

so you dont have one single doubt in your mind that your toms tuning could be a little off because if the sound quality was SO BAD then why wasnt the video quality
i thought about it, but it sounds so different.

on video-i hate the sound
playing on the drums-i love the sound and dont want to change it.

its about how i want it to sound, and it sounds how i like it. so chill.

[finnhiggins]

done it. just not shown well in my vid.

Class A, I'm starting to think that snowboard may have dislodged something vital.

If that stuff is not showing in your video when you play then you have not "done it", you have considered it. "Done it" means it has become integrated to the level of muscle memory and you don't need to worry about it so much anymore apart from a bit of maintenance and improvement when you have the free time.

As for your drum tone, heres the drill: Camcorder microphones are not great microphones. They do not pick up all frequencies evenly and without distortion. However they do not add nasty frequencies to a drum sound that are not there in the first place. Everything you are hearing from that drum kit in the video is there in the real sound. Indeed, it may even be exactly what the audience hears from the other side of the kit, because you do tend to get a certain pleasing aura of low-mids from behind the kit that may not necessarily carry out past the cymbals. Generally speaking if your drums sound like crap on a camcorder microphone it means that they sound less than good in real life.

I've done enough recording and playing on different kits with different grades of microphone to know the difference between a nice-sounding kit and a nasty-sounding kit through a cheap microphone. Your drums do not sound nice in real life. Trust me on this one.

[pdp 9091]

. so chill.


hey im chill


20 20 20 20

[jonescrusher]

Quite how material this poor gets such a staggering amount of attention is beyond me. Yes, we know Class A has trouble with longer posts and is adverse to criticism yet this happens repeatedly. Surely some of the guys who post here who could really benefit from detailed advice deserves more this level of attention. Why these Class A threads suck me in I have no idea.

Class A - if you're having fun then keep doing what you're doing, no one said you have to acquire technique. Just don't drag Steve Gadd into it.

[Loading...]

I am going to have to agree with Finn: the drums don't sound good. We can still make out the pitch and resonant pitch of the toms from the video even if the quality is bad.

[Class A Drummer]

Quite how material this poor gets such a staggering amount of attention is beyond me. Yes, we know Class A has trouble with longer posts and is adverse to criticism yet this happens repeatedly. Surely some of the guys who post here who could really benefit from detailed advice deserves more this level of attention. Why these Class A threads suck me in I have no idea.

Class A - if you're having fun then keep doing what you're doing, no one said you have to acquire technique. Just don't drag Steve Gadd into it.
i like playing his music. i bet you wud too if you tried it.

[TopCat]

http://masklinnscans.free.fr/4chan/please_leave_4.jpg

Ba-zing.....

[finnhiggins]

i like playing his music. i bet you wud too if you tried it.

No you don't. You like playing series of stickings that vaguely resemble things he has used. You don't even come close to considering playing anything to do with what makes Gadd musical, and you fight me tooth and nail every time I try to suggest you might want to try.

[Class A Drummer]

No you don't. You like playing series of stickings that vaguely resemble things he has used. You don't even come close to considering playing anything to do with what makes Gadd musical, and you fight me tooth and nail every time I try to suggest you might want to try.
dude calmn down. Fine, "i i like playing series of stickings that vaguely resemble things he has used." you would probably like playing "series of stickings that vaguely resemble things he has used," also.

[finnhiggins]

dude calmn down. Fine, "i i like playing series of stickings that vaguely resemble things he has used." you would probably like playing "series of stickings that vaguely resemble things he has used," also.

Not particularly, series of stickings are boring and almost totally interchangable.

Can you answer me a question? Why are you so resistant to answering any questions about why you like Steve Gadd's playing. Can you honestly write me a post consisting of more than one line which explains what is good about Steve Gadd?

[pdp 9091]

dude calmn down. Fine, "i i like playing series of stickings that vaguely resemble things he has used." you would probably like playing "series of stickings that vaguely resemble things he has used," also.


see i think this is inncorrect....i think finn would actually be able to play it (given the all around knowledge he has about the concept of drums) so finn would be playing a series of grooves and licks that mostly and sometimes totaly resemble things Gadd has used.

[Class A Drummer]

Not particularly, series of stickings are boring and almost totally interchangable.

Can you answer me a question? Why are you so resistant to answering any questions about why you like Steve Gadd's playing. Can you honestly write me a post consisting of more than one line which explains what is good about Steve Gadd?
its really hard to type out. im not very good about expressing this kind of think. i guess i just like the way everything flows. He has such a different style than everyone else. like i see he plays alot of jazz, but not once have i seen him do the standard jazz beat with the right hand (hope you know what im talking about with the jazz beat). Also i consider him to the be best drummer in the world and greatest drummer of all time.

[jonescrusher]

i like playing his music. i bet you wud too if you tried it.


Aaaarrghhh!!! Well funnily enough, i've only recently been attempting to emulate some of his stuff; it's only after fourteen years of playing that i feel confident enough technically to attempt it.

[Class A Drummer]

Aaaarrghhh!!! Well funnily enough, i've only recently been attempting to emulate some of his stuff; it's only after fourteen years of playing that i feel confident enough technically to attempt it.
really? have you been using any of his books?

[finnhiggins]

its really hard to type out. im not very good about expressing this kind of think. i guess i just like the way everything flows. He has such a different style than everyone else. like i see he plays alot of jazz, but not once have i seen him do the standard jazz beat with the right hand (hope you know what im talking about with the jazz beat). Also i consider him to the be best drummer in the world and greatest drummer of all time.

Cool, now we're trying!

Now, you like the way Gadd's playing flows, yeah? So where does this flow come from? What generates a feeling of "flowing"? Flowing is a smooth, consistent feeling. When you watch a river flowing you get a very different feeling from watching a bunch of firecrackers go off. Firecrackers are all about quick, unpredictable instant change, not smooth consistency.

So in order to be able to play like Gadd you've got to try to achieve smooth consistency in your playing. That's our first point.

Second point is that Gadd's sound is also fairly rounded, some would say dead. That's not just about his Pinstripe heads, it's also about the way he plays double strokes and single strokes, the way he picks his sticks up off the head when he plays.

Steve Gadd doesn't just sound like Steve Gadd when he plays the sticking patterns you're trying here. He sounds like Steve Gadd when he plays double strokes, when he plays single strokes, when he plays a basic 2/4 rock groove.

So what are the things that make Steve Gadd and Class A Drummer different? We've listed them for you below, and they're *all* about simple stuff like ability to control the sticks, ability to control your time and tone and many other things. This is all the stuff that you need to be concentrating on to play ALL of your exercises correctly.

Now, since the stuff you're trying right now is HARD for you then you won't have much brain left to focus on all this stuff. So instead you need to drop back to exercises that are EASY for you to understand and play and you need to focus on all the stuff that Steve Gadd could do if he was playing that exercise, but which Class A Drummer can not. In other words, the tone, the consistency, the "flow".

Record yourself playing even the simplest exercises over a metronome. It'll be pretty humbling hearing how far you drift against the time. Steve Gadd doesn't. Ditto the dynamic inconsistencies. Some of these timing and dynamic problems you have are a function of your hand technique, so you NEED to fix that as a matter of urgency if you want to get better.

Of course, you might not think all that stuff is fun - nobody's putting a gun to your head, this instrument may not be the one for you. Plenty of great non-drummers think Gadd is awesome too. But you're going to have to realise that Steve Gadd IS one of the greatest drummers of all time, and that is true because of all the stuff you're missing. Most people who like Gadd really get that. So if you're going to keep putting up videos with Steve's name in the title then you're going to get a lot of unhappy people going "THAT'S NOTHING LIKE STEVE GADD!!" in an annoyed manner.

It really comes down to a simple question:

Do you want to put the work in to be able to play at a standard closer to that of your idols? Or are you content just bashing? If it's the latter, don't worry about whether your teacher is amazing, blah blah. Just have fun. If it's the former then you need to start doing the work on the things that are going to make the difference. And that's NOT more Steve Gadd paradiddle 32nds, trust me.

[finnhiggins]

Here's the simplest way I can explain the problem here.

Read out loud the following few words. Just indulge me here, I'm going somewhere with this. Say it out loud, to yourself, in your room:


I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.

Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.


You've read it out loud? Good.

Now listen to this.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/mp3clips/politicalspeeches/mlkingihaveadream3xxsss.mp3

What's the difference? Same words, right? But when you say it it sounds like you, and when Martin Luther King says it it sounds like Martin Luther King.

Now imagine you got a little kid to learn that speech and say it. You'd be able to tell it was a little kid reading it - their voice is not full and mature, they'll make pronounciation errors, etc etc.

So the difference is not the words, it's the voice and delivery.

The reason your "Gadd solo" doesn't sound anything like a Gadd solo is not the "words" - the notes on the page. It's the voice. When Steve Gadd "speaks" on the drums he says it clearly and perfectly, every "word" prounounced perfectly and with authority. When you say the same thing on the drums it is stuttering, lacking in confidence, nasal, faltering.

You can never have another person's voice. Everybody has their own. But you can train yourself to be able to improve your own delivery and mannerisms to emulate those of your idols. If Steve Gadd speaks clearly and with clarity on the drums then you need to work more on copying this, rather than just repeating his words over and over again while making the same mistakes on every new thing you learn.

You see?

[pdp 9091]

I look at it as a building. Gadd is on the 50th floor. Class A wants to get to that 50th floor as fast as he can so he thinks (just like alot of young drummers) that taking the stairs are boring (simple rudiments) so he trys to get up another way by cutting straight to the chase and trying all the stuff thats over his head.

[Paradiddle my snizzle]

Finn will not rest before Class A understands!!! ;)

LOOOL...

(interesting reading btw Finn)

[T.L.]

ClassA,

First off, listen to what everyone here has posted -- almost every one of the posts in response to your video has at least a few good tips for you.

Second, I suggest you cut and paste the contents of this growing thread into Microsoft word and then print them all out..............Read them over every couple of months..................Eventually, you'll understand what your friends here at DW are trying to tell you.

It's easy for us to forget that you're 15 years old now and most likely have not been drumming too long -- maybe your ears just don't get it yet......................If you print out this thread, I promise it'll make more sense when you're more experienced.

Now, say it with me......................"The metronome is my friend."

[franklinj]

Aaaarrghhh!!! Well funnily enough, i've only recently been attempting to emulate some of his stuff; it's only after fourteen years of playing that i feel confident enough technically to attempt it.

I can play something that VAGUELY resembles 50 Ways. What I mean is, I can play the sticking, and play it in tempp, but I cant get the feel down. Im kind of like ClassA in that aspect, minus the sticking and the tempo.

har har har!

[Class A Drummer]

ClassA,

First off, listen to what everyone here has posted -- almost every one of the posts in response to your video has at least a few good tips for you.

Second, I suggest you cut and paste the contents of this growing thread into Microsoft word and then print them all out..............Read them over every couple of months..................Eventually, you'll understand what your friends here at DW are trying to tell you.

It's easy for us to forget that you're 15 years old now and most likely have not been drumming too long -- maybe your ears just don't get it yet......................If you print out this thread, I promise it'll make more sense when you're more experienced.

Now, say it with me......................"The metronome is my friend."
i have understood everything that has been said in this thread. i just disagree with parts of it.

[franklinj]

i have understood everything that has been said in this thread. i just disagree with parts of it.

But the point is, YOU SHOULDNT!
Its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact. It really was NOT that great by any standards man. I seriously would not have known that was Gadd if it wasnt in the title. Work on the basics, no matter how boring or dull it seems at first. Your playing WILL get better, which makes the learning process funner.

[mattsmith]

Look, he's been strongly told a million times to get a metronome, and he won't do it. He says workin' on fundamentals is boring, when even dedicated practice to single strokes would appreciably elevate his progress.

And because he refuses the hard work part, nothing ever changes.

But you know? We can change.

Why do we listen to these monstrosities and post 163 times, in an attempt to describe them?

I strongly suggest that until Class A cleans up his act, NO ONE POST on his threads. We can designate one or two people to listen to his latest Gadd love letter, and report if any progress has been made. IF such progress is obvious, and IF his comments demonstrate greater maturity, then OK.

Until then, why are we feeding this guy? Everytime this scenario goes down, it diverts attention away from the latest Karl, Britt, Duke, new guy effort truly deserving of our attention.

Is this fair?

[franklinj]

Good point Matt. I really am tired of seeing these types of threads pop up every so often that are like

"i can play gadds stuff. its just a LITTLE over my head, but for the most part, i got it. i also put complex samba beats, ghost notes, and other subtleties in my playing that most of you dont see!"

Man, I need to get some of my playing up here.

[Class A Drummer]

Look, he's been strongly told a million times to get a metronome, and he won't do it. He says workin' on fundamentals is boring, when even dedicated practice to single strokes would appreciably elevate his progress.

And because he refuses the hard work part, nothing ever changes.


ummmm......... i got a metranome. i think ive said it a few times in this thread. also, I have not refused the hard work. w/o hard work, i cudnt have finished the solo without hitting wrong drums on wrong beats and doing wrong notes and stuff like that.

[franklinj]

ummmm......... i got a metranome. i think ive said it a few times in this thread. also, I have not refused the hard work. w/o hard work, i cudnt have finished the solo without hitting wrong drums on wrong beats and doing wrong notes and stuff like that.

Youre not willing to do the building blocks though. THAT is where the hardest work lies.

Why do you think Gadd and all of the greats still have to re evaluate their grip and strokes from time to time? Its hard, hard work man, and you are NOT WILLING TO DO IT! Youre the most stubborn person I have (n)ever met!

I tried being nice and helpful at first, but nothing is getting through to you! Listen man, this is coming from someone in your age range. I just turned 16, so im not some dude twice as old as you. I used to be in the same boat as you technique wise, and my playing was helped SOOO much by playing with a metronome and using good technique. I played with a metronome so much, that when I had friends come over and jam, even on my FIRST jame session, they commented on how steady my groove was. If you want to get ANYWHERE, especially like the greats you worship, then you need to learn, and not just play.

[finnhiggins]

ummmm......... i got a metranome. i think ive said it a few times in this thread. also, I have not refused the hard work. w/o hard work, i cudnt have finished the solo without hitting wrong drums on wrong beats and doing wrong notes and stuff like that.

So instead of playing the wrong notes now you're just playing the right notes wrong.

That's not an improvement. In all honesty, the WRONG notes played RIGHT would sound a lot better and a lot more like Gadd.

Did you read my post about your voice and delivery vs your words?

WORK ON YOUR VOICE AND DELIVERY.

NOT MORE WORDS.

It doesn't matter if you get the words in the right order if you sound stupid saying them.

Or do you think that if you read the words to "Bring the Noise" out from a book then you're rapping like Chuck D?

[Drummerboy3940]

Dude I want to know why you even post videos of yourself?? The whole point of posting a vid is to get constructive criticism from others. If you dont want to hear what others have to say, STOP POSTING YOUR VIDEOS.

[Class A Drummer]

So instead of playing the wrong notes now you're just playing the right notes wrong.

That's not an improvement. In all honesty, the WRONG notes played RIGHT would sound a lot better and a lot more like Gadd.

Did you read my post about your voice and delivery vs your words?

WORK ON YOUR VOICE AND DELIVERY.

NOT MORE WORDS.

It doesn't matter if you get the words in the right order if you sound stupid saying them.

Or do you think that if you read the words to "Bring the Noise" out from a book then you're rapping like Chuck D?
who is chuck d?
-------------

[finnhiggins]

who is chuck d?
-------------

Would anybody be overly disappointed if I shot myself?

[Class A Drummer]

Dude I want to know why you even post videos of yourself?? The whole point of posting a vid is to get constructive criticism from others. If you dont want to hear what others have to say, STOP POSTING YOUR VIDEOS.
have you even read this thread? think. read all my posts. all. 2wice. actually 3 times. if ou say i dont want to hear constructive critisism, you are wrong. I truly truly trrrruuully hope that this is the last time i will say this.

I am accepting the critisism, but only the critisism that i agree with.

[franklinj]

have you even read this thread? think. read all my posts. all. 2wice. actually 3 times. if ou say i dont want to hear constructive critisism, you are wrong. I truly truly trrrruuully hope that this is the last time i will say this.

I am accepting the critisism, but only the critisism that i agree with.

QUOTE OF THE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Oh, and id miss you Finns!

[Class A Drummer]

QUOTE OF THE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Oh, and id miss you Finns!
if i saw you play, and you played great, perfect timing, techinique, all the works. And i told you, your technique was great, and your timing was terrible, what would you think?

edit-my case is a little different, but considering the cercomstances (spelling?).

[pdp 9091]

QUOTE OF THE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Oh, and id miss you Finns!

Ya thats is just too funny

[rendezvous_drummer]

please stop posting here. IMO your posts here have had nothing to to w/ the thread. Please give me some critism like most people post helpful hints or somthing.
why should he give you criticism when you don't listen to criticism?

[rendezvous_drummer]

who is chuck d?
-------------
HAHAHAHAHAHA! wow.........

[franklinj]

if i saw you play, and you played great, perfect timing, techinique, all the works. And i told you, your technique was great, and your timing was terrible, what would you think?

Dude, if Finns was the one that told me; if MFB was the one to tell me, etc., id LISTEN and PRACTICE. I also would not be posting a video of me doing someting WAYYY over my head. For example, latin grooves. Way over my head, and I would NEVER post a video of my playing them until I was certain I could nail the song/solo.

Criticism is not something that you can handpick and slect the ones you want listen to. Take everyones advice. Dont be an arrogant douche, for your ignorance will get you NOWHERE in life. Let this be a lesson in humility.

[timebandit]

Finn.......Dude........your 25, he's 15. why are you argueing. You are waisting a tramendous amount of valuable info.( very well versed,mite i add) although, i am enjoying it thuroughly.And i think, i myself mite of learned something. so it was'nt a total waste. Class A ........heres the thing, I'm 40 and been playin' since I was 8. and I'm still learnin'.

[Drummerboy3940]

Dont be an arrogant douche, for your ignorance will get you NOWHERE in life. Let this be a lesson in humility.


HAHAHAHAHA....you got told

[rendezvous_drummer]

Class A, you cannot choose which criticism to believe and which not to believe because if many people point something out, regardless if you agree or not, you have to take it into consideration. now im goin to go play some dave weckl.

[Tuxido]

(w)ow ! that was great i like this kind of contempory music with the weird tempo changes, great stuff ! and that stick trick at the end was uber cool !








no but seriously, id recommend slowing down tempo, even if you can do it at great speeds, slow down and recheck all your strokes, sometimes, playing slow will make the fast stuff much smoother. and maybe learn all your flams/drags and stroke rolls it will help everything.
remember, youll get better faster by working slower.

oh and i went to steve gadds clinic in montreal, someguy asked him to show some exercices, so he did a couple of stickings over foot paterns, at one point he did one and could not get it tried like 3 times and gues what he did ? SLOWED IT DOWN and said ill have to WORK on that ,

so if you wanna be like steve gadd, you know what to do.

[Jookbox]

Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bernhard

haha funniest post yet

[Class A Drummer]

heres the thing, I'm 40 and been playin' since I was 8. and I'm still learnin'.
not to be like others, starting pointless arguments but......... i never said i stopped learning. i love learning new things when it comes to drumming. Thats why i love crazy difficult stuff so much, like steve gadd material.

[finnhiggins]

Bernhard, can you suspend the swearing ban just for this one thread? Please?!

[MSUMetal]

Why hasn't this thread been locked yet? 182 (now 183) replies and everything has been said before the first page was even finished!

[Drummerboy3940]

not to be like others, starting pointless arguments but......... i never said i stopped learning. i love learning new things when it comes to drumming. Thats why i love crazy difficult stuff so much, like steve gadd material.

you dont learn it though. you try to play and fail

[pdp 9091]

you dont learn it though. you try to play and fail
EXACTLY!!!!!!

not to be like others, starting pointless arguments but......... i never said i stopped learning. i love learning new things when it comes to drumming. Thats why i love crazy difficult stuff so much, like steve gadd material.


YOU CANT PLAY GADD. YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE BASICS FISRT!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CANT JUST SIT DOWN AND PLAY "CRAZY DIFFICULT STUFF LIKE STEVE GADD MATERIAL". IT JUST DOESNT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT!!!!!

[Class A Drummer]

you dont learn it though. you try to play and fail
dude. shut up, leave the thread. dont be a jerk. i disagree with alot of things said here, but im not a jerk telling people they "try and fail" and that they "suck at drums"-Drummerboy3940.

edit- (( )_crayola_(( >

[finnhiggins]

dude. shut up, leave the thread. dont be a jerk. i disagree with alot of things said here, but im not a jerk telling people they "try and fail" and that they "suck at drums"-Drummerboy3940.


That's the point though Class A. You do try this stuff, but:

YOU DO FAIL.

We have told you why. We have told you why more trying with this approach won't help. We have told you what to do to fix the problem. All you have to do is engage that snowboard-dented brain of yours and read.

[Drummerboy3940]

dude. shut up, leave the thread. dont be a jerk. i disagree with alot of things said here, but im not a jerk telling people they "try and fail" and that they "suck at drums"-Drummerboy3940.

edit- (( )_crayola_(( >

you fail because you are playing stuff that is too hard for you. i know your better at easier stuff. I wasnt the one who told you to find another instrument to play

[Class A Drummer]

you fail because you are playing stuff that is too hard for you. i know your better at easier stuff. I wasnt the one who told you to find another instrument to play
I personally think you would "fail" attempting this solo also. I hear you tell me that i suck, but i belive you would do much worse than i did on this solo.


-dont be a jerk.

[Drummerboy3940]

I personally think you would "fail" attempting this solo also. I hear you tell me that i suck, but i belive you would do much worse than i did on this solo.


-dont be a jerk.

read my signature. you dont get to be drumline captain and center snare if you arent good.

[pdp 9091]

I personally think you would "fail" attempting this solo also. I hear you tell me that i suck, but i belive you would do much worse than i did on this solo.


-dont be a jerk.

wow! hes not being a jerk....hes right...u do fail...its honesty...u cant watch that video and tell me you didnt fail. And maybe drummerboy would fail at it or maybe not....we dont know but hes not the one posting videos that are of him attempting to play over his head complex stuff. You basically set yourself up by putting up this video and being ignorant to constructive criticism at the same time. It might have been different if you actually took everyones advice and ran with it but NO! you just pick out certain tips and totaly blow off certain other ones that you dont agree with (particullary the tips that tell you to tune your toms better and to go back to the basics)

[tomgrosset]

You guys seriously have to let this go.

Class A refuses to practice efficiently and chooses to only take some of the advice from these other drummers who have experience. You guys are all offering helpful advice and he only chooses to pay attention to some of it. He doesn't even approve of the basic fundamentals - he finds it too "easy" or "boring".
After 195 posts, he's still not listening to you guys. Theres no point in constantly pressuring this kid to listen if he's not taking any notice.
Theres other drummers out there who want advice and are willing to practice properly and aren't so conceited.

I agree with Matt - we are simply wasting our time. It's ridiculous.

[pdp 9091]

You guys seriously have let this go.

Class A chooses not to practice efficiently and refuses to only take some of the advice from these other drummers who have experience. You guys are all offering helpful advice and he only chooses to pay attention to some of it. He doesn't even approve of the basic fundamentals - he finds it too "easy" or "boring".
After 195 posts, he's still not listening to you guys. Theres no point in constantly pressuring this kid to listen if he's not taking any notice.
Theres other drummers out there who want advice and are willing to practice properly and aren't so conceited.

I agree with Matt - we are simply wasting our time. It's ridiculous.

ya im about fed up with Class A's close mindedness. Im about done in this thread. If i see anything in the future that i see is worth replying to,,....dont worry i will

[finnhiggins]

That's my lot too, folks. I was taking this is practice incase I ever found myself with a student so obstinate and unwilling to learn to see if I could figure out a way of cracking the nut. But I think if I got to this point with a student I'd just ask them not to come back.

Class A goes back on ignore, methinks.

[mattsmith]

If everyone were to delete all their posts from this thread right now, a great lesson could be learned.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

yup, this thread has gotten a bit ridiculous. 100+ people telling one kid the same thing...

and the kid chooses not to accept the criticism he doesn't like. awesome.

everyone should move along, class a is helpless. if he thinks he can play gadd... then he

thinks he can. obviously no number of dw members telling him otherwise will make him

believe any different, do there isn't anything we can do guys. he's a hopeless cause. but

only because you choose to be class a.

by the way finn, what an awesome post (martin luther king). that was a perfect way of

explaining the situation in a different context. very nice stuff.

[Class A Drummer]

read my signature. you dont get to be drumline captain and center snare if you arent good.
dude, im the head snare guy also for my drumline, wupty doo. your might be a little more competitive then mine, actually, i know yours is more competitive then mine if you put it in your profile, but you need skiill to be a drumline captain whether is crazy serious like yours or not.

[Class A Drummer]

If everyone were to delete all their posts from this thread right now, a great lesson could be learned.
might take a while for certain people. maybe everyone cud just, not post.

[SheekLucci]

I'm not even going to read the rest of this thread so excuse me if this was already addressed

"if you watch the video of this drum solo under the clinic section of drummerworld, you can see that steves time is also not steady."

I cannot believe you just said that.

[DrummerBen1]

dude, im the head snare guy also for my drumline, wupty doo. your might be a little more competitive then mine, actually, i know yours is more competitive then mine if you put it in your profile, but you need skiill to be a drumline captain whether is crazy serious like yours or not.

your drumline probably sounds really bad then if you're the head snare guy. lol
I don't know whos in charge of your drumline or what your drumteacher is teaching you, but that is just ridiculous, seriously lol

[Class A Drummer]

I don't know whos in charge of your drumline or what your drumteacher is teaching you, but that is just ridiculous, seriously LOL
you have never seen me play snare.

Edit-our line sounds great considering we have had one practice which was last friday. Also we played our first gig yestarday. We did the shotgun start off for a golf tournement at a local country club.

[DrummerBen1]

you have never seen me play snare.

uhh yea it's pretty obvious that your hand technique is really sloppy in your solo so thats enough to convince me that you aren't very good at it.
I cant imagine how bad the other drummers sound if you're head guy. lol

[cdawg_2010]

the Madness well never enddddd.

[Stu_Strib]

been there [Vic Firth website]. watched all of em atleast 3 times.

Dude, you just don't get it. I've been there t0o. Not only have I watched ALL of them about 5,000 times, I've also spent HOURS doing each of them.

You've inspired me to make a video this weekend. I think I shall title it "How to Post a Gadd Video the Correct Way".

[Stu_Strib]

Can you honestly write me a post consisting of more than one line which explains what is good about Steve Gadd?

He uses Yamaha drums and looks like Bernhard?

[Stu_Strib]

I can play something that VAGUELY resembles 50 Ways. What I mean is, I can play the sticking, and play it in tempp, but I cant get the feel down. Im kind of like ClassA in that aspect, minus the sticking and the tempo.

har har har!

Not only can I play 50 Ways vaguely, I can also play it with the Gadd sticking and it STILL doesn't sound like Gadd. That is the pure genius of Gadd.

I'll actually do a video of this to make this exact point: how a decently skilled guy with 20 years of experience can play all the right drums and stickings and still not get it right.

And WHY do we keep telling Class A about Steve Gadd, when he is obviously YEARS away from being able to play anything resembling Gadd.

Why don't we direct Class A to something a little more manageable. Meg White, for example?

[Stu_Strib]

ummmm......... i got a metranome. i think ive said it a few times in this thread. also, I have not refused the hard work. w/o hard work, i cudnt have finished the solo without hitting wrong drums on wrong beats and doing wrong notes and stuff like that.

Ok, I'll call you out on this one too. Why don't you post a transcript of the "solo" since I believe you are just playing random notes that you think sound like Gadd. Post the transcript of the part you made a video of, so I can tell you just how many mistakes you made.

Keep in mind, there is waaaaay more to drumming than just hitting the correct drum. It is HOW you hit the drum that matters, as Finnhiggins has pointed out several times already.

If you have a metronome, then why in the world aren't you using it?

[Bernhard]

Ok ok ok, so......what's all about the real Steve Gadd Groove??????

I open my private archive and show a original Steve Gadd Groove. I filmed it at Pasic and as you can see the difference to the VicFirth Videos is: better angle, you can see the Snare Drum.

Here it is:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/stevegadd33.mov

enjoy

Bernhard

[rendezvous_drummer]

Why don't we direct Class A to something a little more manageable. Meg White, for example?
BEST QUOTE EVER!!! I'm Class "A" should look at drummers who are hardly drummers because he'd be able to relate pretty well. I'm not going to post anymore in this thread but i do want to say that after looking at CAD posts and his constant refusal to take the constructive criticism, i am very angry and have the urge to hit something very hard. Bernhard is right, drums are not for you, hell even the triangle is pushing it.....maybe...nevermind, just don't play any instruments and give me your drumset. That's it i'm done here in this thread until further notice.
Mike

[rendezvous_drummer]

And bernhard, that's a great video. I can now see what class a was trying to play.....and it was a travesty!

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Is there a brick wall I can hit my head against? Closely followed by Class A's head I think. Then a swift kick in the balls. Stop being such an arrogant little and grow the hell up. When I first joined the original DWF, I wasn't much older than you. I wasn't the most enlightened soul either, but when I did post some playing, I got encouragement and good, constructive criticism. I'll say it again:

[i]Constructive Criticism Is NOT A Personal Attack

Arrogance will lead to personal attacks. Nobody here has the remotest amount of respect for you after this thread, you've managed to run out of friends, and no, some guy called 'Sessions' who was an alter-ego does not count as a friend. Got it? Comprende? Now go **** yourself.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Here's what you need to do:

Since you sound just like Gadd, go out and audition for a few local bands and show 'em your stuff. You should have no problem nailing down some of the hottest gigs in town.

The bass players especially should love your pocket. It's just like Gadd's.

[Chip]

I'm stunned to see why he must fail to realise he has terrible technique. It is not that hard to just get a good fundamental technique, with even notes. I guarantee, just 1/2 an hour a day for a week or two just working on the rebound will yield nice results.

I don't give a s*** if you find it boring, technique is one of the most boring practice routines. Have some friggin' discipline about you, just stop practicing stuff that you can not, I repeat can not play, and practice the fundamentals. If you are that lazy, and think you are so above rudiments, and think that just being able to do them is enough to cover them, at least practice the friggin' Free Stroke!!! And I don't mean give it a quick glance (5 minutes, and then "OK, I've grasped that, now onto breaking the speed record", or just watching the videos three times), I mean SERIOUSLY shed it. Set your new metronome to 60, play on the click exactly for half an hour (ten minutes if it's too below your great hand technique) with the free stroke. IT HELPS!!! I can tell you now, my drumming and yes, even my quality of life, has vastly improved no that I can play fairly well. It may sound cheesy, but it's the truth.

I didn't want to post this, but I think he's going to need as much drilling in of this information as we humanly can.

Not that it will make much difference:
READ THE ADVICE GIVEN!!! GO TO VICFIRTH.COM, LOOK UP THE FREE STROKE, LEARN THAT, EMULATE IT, LISTEN, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ADMIT THAT YOU AREN'T GOOD!!! From these videos you clearly need to just stick on to evenness and clean notes, good technique...... ugh, the list goes on, and on, and on...

[Sticktrick]

Class A!

I'm confused here... I don't get it. So just for the record and my personal interest: Could you tell me (and all of us) how YOU think about that Solo you posted. Just a quick and brief summary of how you think about the technique used, the sound, the timing and how close you think it is to Gadd. Thanks!

[Stu_Strib]

The bass players especially should love your pocket. It's just like Gadd's.

Ok, I just snorted coffee out of my nose....ouch.

[drummersgroove]

I think this thread is actually one of the most helpful threads in existance. The plethora of information and advice given by, cleary very experienced and knowledgable members and musicians is not something to brush aside, or pick and choose from, what you think is beneficial. In a strange way, I thank you Class "A" for making this thread, because as a result I (and I imagine numerous others) have learnt a fair bit from it - and being self taught myself, this thread is the next best thing to having a personal teacher!

[Drummerboy3940]

Here's what you need to do:

Since you sound just like Gadd, go out and audition for a few local bands and show 'em your stuff. You should have no problem nailing down some of the hottest gigs in town.

The bass players especially should love your pocket. It's just like Gadd's.

I fell out of my chair im laughing so hard. This is the hilarious.

[foursticks]

dude. shut up, leave the thread. dont be a jerk. i disagree with alot of things said here, but im not a jerk telling people they "try and fail" and that they "suck at drums"-Drummerboy3940.

edit- (( )_crayola_(( >

Dude, I'm gonna be brutally frank (like many on this thread), and say that your playing truly did 'suck' (sorry, but it's the only word I can find to describe it). So 'sucky' was it that if it weren't for the title I'd of thought it was a poor attempt to try and play an 8 bar rock groove. If you haven't noticed the fact that you only choose the critism you LIKE, is going to get you nowhere. Yes, critism may upset you, but if you learn to accept it with an open mind, you'll soon see how both your playing improves, but your life in general seems better. I hope you decide to listen to my words and not just call me a jerk, as I want to help...

Foursticks

[ege_the_drummer]

Is there a brick wall I can hit my head against? Closely followed by Class A's head I think. Then a swift kick in the balls. Stop being such an arrogant little and grow the hell up. When I first joined the original DWF, I wasn't much older than you. I wasn't the most enlightened soul either, but when I did post some playing, I got encouragement and good, constructive criticism. I'll say it again:

[i]Constructive Criticism Is NOT A Personal Attack

Arrogance will lead to personal attacks. Nobody here has the remotest amount of respect for you after this thread, you've managed to run out of friends, and no, some guy called 'Sessions' who was an alter-ego does not count as a friend. Got it? Comprende?


Class A, you really need to stop the arrogant s*** and grow and accept the fact that you need help. Taking any bit of the 7 PAGES OF ADVICE WE HAVE GIVEN YOU might really help. In all honesty, it looks like you really need it.

EDIT: Might want to change it to 9 PAGES OF ADVICE. Maybe you should use some of it Class A. You need it.

[fourstringdrums]

I just wanted to say one more thing in response to something A Class said.

A Class, you mention that your head of your snare drum line and defend that your snare playing technique is better. To put it blunty, that's bull. Your technique should be no different on a marching snare than on a drumset snare. I find it hard to believe that on a marching snare you have great technique but as soon as you sit behind a kit and do things on the snare as in this video, you slop out completely. .

Also I just think that if you haven't gotten the tips and points we're trying to make here, all with your best interest as a drummer in mind, you never will. You should want to strive to be the best you can, even if you think you're not doing much wrong, you should still look at your playing objectively and try and see it from our point of view. I've had people give me critcisms in my video that even if I didn't think they were 100% accurate, I worked on their suggestions anyway.

[HardcoreLogo]

This thread has become somewhat of a Soap Opera for me, I find myself checking everyother hour to see the new comments..................look kid, there has been some bashing for sure, but your kinda calling it on yourself..........all things aside, you need to learn how to accept and respond to advice and criticism............look at my thread(plug,plug)I got nailed on some very important points, and they were right!!!!
Since those posts, I have spent the last couple of mornings reviewing some grooves I once learned(rusty) read tons of info on the internet, ordered some instruction stuff and am bidding on some hand drums and such on ebay so I can learn the real patterns.......I have taken the advice to heart and am willing to put in the time to try and get my playing to the next level...........now you try!

[Class A Drummer]

I just wanted to say one more thing in response to something A Class said.

A Class, you mention that your head of your snare drum line and defend that your snare playing technique is better. To put it blunty, that's bull. Your technique should be no different on a marching snare than on a drumset snare. I find it hard to believe that on a marching snare you have great technique but as soon as you sit behind a kit and do things on the snare as in this video, you slop out completely. .

Also I just think that if you haven't gotten the tips and points we're trying to make here, all with your best interest as a drummer in mind, you never will. You should want to strive to be the best you can, even if you think you're not doing much wrong, you should still look at your playing objectively and try and see it from our point of view. I've had people give me critcisms in my video that even if I didn't think they were 100% accurate, I worked on their suggestions anyway.
if i have time, i will make of video of my on my pad, i will do a solo that i used to get to be the head guy for snare drum. also, im not as bad a player as you would think because in an audition i did for blast from the past, idid not make it. But, i was 2 points away from making it. I did not think i would make it, but i did better than i though. Considering i was the youngest trying out, and one of the 3 people who made it is considered to be the best drummer in the state within the high school age group. And yes, i know that 98% of you do not belive that story.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

The question is why don't 98% of us believe that story?

Simple: it's utter bull.

[meandhimcallitus]

The question is why don't 98% of us believe that story?

Simple: it's utter bull.


HAHAHAHA.... ouch! that one stung a bit!

trust me... by making "snare captain" means very little drumming wise.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Well; ok. Either it's bull or it's the worst snare line in history. Pretty simple choice really.

[Class A Drummer]

HAHAHAHA.... ouch! that one stung a bit!

trust me... by making "snare captain" means very little drumming wise.
i know. thats what i was trying to tell drummer boy.

[pdp 9091]

i know. thats what i was trying to tell drummer boy.


you just have to take advice better man...i have learned from this....read my thread i made...i just let it all out and admitted i needed a change,....and its true...i do need a change and you do to. The past 2 days i have spent 2+ hours on just pariddles and double stroke rolls themselves and keeping them in time. Thats what you need to do. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE simple rudiments.Over and Over and Over again.....thats how a good drummer is formed....years and years of practice. Believe me....and believe the rest of the 1838748 other people that have been trying to say this. And dont give me that "its boring" bs and that "i only agree with some advice" bs....you have to shape up.

[Class A Drummer]

you just have to take advice better man...i have learned from this....read my thread i made...i just let it all out and admitted i needed a change,....and its true...i do need a change and you do to. The past 2 days i have spent 2+ hours on just pariddles and double stroke rolls themselves and keeping them in time. Thats what you need to do. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE simple rudiments.Over and Over and Over again.....thats how a good drummer is formed....years and years of practice. Believe me....and believe the rest of the 1838748 other people that have been trying to say this. And dont give me that "its boring" bs and that "i only agree with some advice" bs....you have to shape up.
actually, by doing steves parradiddle groove, unconsciously my paradiddles improved tremendously, along with controlling my doubles. My doubles became much much much cleaner because of practicing that groove a billion times. along with my diddles.

[pdp 9091]

actually, by doing steves parradiddle groove, unconsciously my paradiddles improved tremendously, along with controlling my doubles. My doubles became much much much cleaner because of practicing that groove a billion times. along with my diddles.

you still dont get it though....you need to go back to the simple basics of those rudiments....not the gadd grooves...maybe you can master your paraddidles in that one groove but it may not help you throughout other grooves or even moving onto perfecting your double paradiddle.

[Class A Drummer]

you still dont get it though....you need to go back to the simple basics of those rudiments....not the gadd grooves...maybe you can master your paraddidles in that one groove but it may not help you throughout other grooves or even moving onto perfecting your double paradiddle.
what i meant was, not just my paradiddles, but all the diddles that i have tried since learning that groove improved tremendously. What i liked most about learning it was, not only did i get really good at diddles, and a few other rudiments, but i had alot of fun with it. Thats the kind of thing i like doing. Somthing challenging, but works the rudiments im rusty on, or need improvment.

[TopCat]

Ok, I'll settle this.


http://masklinnscans.free.fr/4chan/gtfo.jpg

[mattsmith]

you still dont get it though....you need to go back to the simple basics of those rudiments....not the gadd grooves...maybe you can master your paraddidles in that one groove but it may not help you throughout other grooves or even moving onto perfecting your double paradiddle.

Interestingly enough, this is precisely why WFD participation can be valuable. Most guys my age don't want to learn fundamentals. I'll bet this guy hasn't played an hour of single strokes in his entire life. Think of how many things here would get cleaned up. Think of how relaxation in the arms would have to occur if he wanted to see those little digital numbers end up where he wanted them.

Yeah, sure he would abuse all of this initially. He would whack away at a Drumometer pad, and force himself to get 700s. But then he would lose and not get the little prizes. Now in his case, nobody can say how such procedures would ruin his playing, since he's already done enough of a job of that himself. Instead he would have to reexamine procedure, because finally he would be able to see the nose in front of his face.

Some people need the tangible to understand. In this case, subjective evaluation just aint workin'.

[Class A Drummer]

Interestingly enough, this is precisely why WFD participation can be valuable. Most guys my age don't want to learn fundamentals. I'll bet this guy hasn't played an hour of single strokes in his entire life. Think of how many things here would get cleaned up. Think of how relaxation in the arms would have to occur if he wanted to see those little digital numbers end up where he wanted them.


Actually i use to do single stroke roles for about 10-15 mins, but now that i got my metranome ive been trying that mangini 90 min. thing. ive done it twice.

[pdp 9091]

Ok, I'll settle this.


http://masklinnscans.free.fr/4chan/gtfo.jpg


O MY GOD! HAHA....thats just bruttle...haha

[Stu_Strib]

Yeah, sure he would abuse all of this initially. He would whack away at a Drumometer pad, and force himself to get 700s.

Interestingly enough, 800 is a magical barrier for me, so I'm gonna guess he'd spend a LOT of time whacking away in the 700s (as if 750 or so is shameful!)

[Class A Drummer]

Interestingly enough, 800 is a magical barrier for me, so I'm gonna guess he'd spend a LOT of time whacking away in the 700s (as if 750 or so is shameful!)
anyone know what a good number for someone my age? not counting you matt cuz ur the fastest minor ive ever seen.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Like you'd be able to get close to any good number Paul.

[Class A Drummer]

Like you'd be able to get close to any good number Paul.
you never know. i have no idea how high i would go.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Not high with that sort of technique, that's for sure.

Again, a wonderful display of arrogance. I can't get very high and I'd be willing to bet that my technique is better than yours, even if it's not exactly textbook-great.

[franklinj]

This threads making me bust out the practice pad. Tonight, im going for that 90 minute thing. My singles are too slow as of now.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

This threads making me bust out the practice pad. Tonight, im going for that 90 minute thing. My singles are too slow as of now.

You're not the only one whose seen a positive aspect of this thread too. I've gone right back to basics on the back of this thread.

It's funny to think that he's about 10 months younger than I was when I joined the original DWF. Says something I think.

[finnhiggins]

Alright, I beat Stu ;)

820 consistently achievable here in trad grip, about 805 in matched. My flatmate's drum shop has one, so I had a play.

But I honestly don't think a drumometer or WFD would be good for our man Class A here. Why? Because he'd fake it out. I've seen people with no technique whatsoever going at those things mashing like crazy and getting scores of 960+.

Sure, he'd lose in competition. But then he'd just be pulling out the whole "I can do it at home!" / "The setup here was weird, it was losing notes" nonsense judging by what's been seen so far in this thread.

C'mon, you all know it's true.

[Class A Drummer]

Not high with that sort of technique, that's for sure.

Again, a wonderful display of arrogance. I can't get very high and I'd be willing to bet that my technique is better than yours, even if it's not exactly textbook-great.
how am I being arrogant?

[Class A Drummer]

Alright, I beat Stu ;)

820 consistently achievable here in trad grip, about 805 in matched. My flatmate's drum shop has one, so I had a play.

But I honestly don't think a drumometer or WFD would be good for our man Class A here. Why? Because he'd fake it out. I've seen people with no technique whatsoever going at those things mashing like crazy and getting scores of 960+.

Sure, he'd lose in competition. But then he'd just be pulling out the whole "I can do it at home!" / "The setup here was weird, it was losing notes" nonsense judging by what's been seen so far in this thread.

C'mon, you all know it's true.
your wrong. first of all, i doubt i could ever hit 900, next im not a bad sport. i take martial arts, and we learn to not get pissed off if we lose, or say he cheated and the ever so popular "sholda coulda woulda."

[finnhiggins]

your wrong. first of all, i doubt i could ever hit 900, next im not a bad sport. i take martial arts, and we learn to not get pissed off if we lose, or say he cheated and the ever so popular "sholda coulda woulda."

I took you off ignore to read this, and it wasn't worth it.

Of course you're a bad sport. Have you read this thread lately?

"My drums sound fine! My technique is fine! Steve Gadd has timing problems too! That beginner stuff is too boring for me!"

You do martial arts? How do they feel about your obsession with practicing black-belt material when you can't even tie your white belt properly yet?

[Class A Drummer]

I took you off ignore to read this, and it wasn't worth it.

Of course you're a bad sport. Have you read this thread lately?

"My drums sound fine! My technique is fine! Steve Gadd has timing problems too! That beginner stuff is too boring for me!"

You do martial arts? How do they feel about your obsession with practicing black-belt material when you can't even tie your white belt properly yet?
its called disagreeing, being a bad sport is completly different in my opinion. it seems our meanings are different.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Right now, Class_A, nothing would please me more than a good Yokomen One and a Shoemen Two with a katana, failing that, a Jo or a Bokken, a martial artist should understand those terms. I could write a book on your arrogance, it's just beyond comprehension.

And those things Finn listed above just aren't a batter of opinion, drum sound, yes, but terrible sound is different from a sound you don't like. Technique has objective measures, and as for timing. Another objective! My we're onto a winner here.