Zidljian A Sweet Ride for Jazz?

[AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken]

I just went to the local music stores and played some cymbals - I just got Paiste Signature Medium hats and I need ride & crash. One of the rides that really stuck out at me was the 21" Zildjian A Sweet Ride - it had nice ping and good wash, and I'm thinking of getting it. But I play mostly jazzy/rock type stuff and I want to see if others find this to be a good ride for that kind of music.

The Sabian Manhattan 'jazz' rides all sounded awful to me (way too washy) and the 'ping' rides weren't that great. I didn't really find Sabian's rides to be that good at all (but their Vault crash blew me away - amazing, "Oommmm" sound, perfect for chanting after).

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

louie bellson thinks so. as does art blakely. i do too, but their opinions probably hold more weight.

[zachg]

Zilidijian A Sweet Rides Rule man, I dont own one but my drum teacher has one and I really like it.

[AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken]

Cool, thanks for the feedback. That's kind of one of the things is that being new I don't really know who played what when and so forth, so it's always cool to hear that someone like Art Blakey played the gear you're looking at.

[Miggle]

You might want to consider a 22" avedis ride. hear lots of good things about it. and K custom dark ride... but thats not in scope.

nevermnd me.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

Cool, thanks for the feedback. That's kind of one of the things is that being new I don't really know who played what when and so forth, so it's always cool to hear that someone like Art Blakey played the gear you're looking at.

i'm no drum historian. all you need is this address: www.zildjian.com

just find the cymbal you're interested in, click on it, and on the right is a list of artists that use that cymbal

[Skitch]

louie bellson thinks so. as does art blakely. i do too, but their opinions probably hold more weight.


Uh....pardon my ignorance here, but hasn't Art Blakey been dead since 1990? Wouldn't be hard for him to endorse anybody's cymbal made after his departure? I don't mean offense here; I am weary of the marketing people saying "oh, yeah - this is what Art, Tony or Buddy really used!" in hopes of more sales. This may be why Neil Peart always used to take acetone to his cymbals and remove the logos! I read this in a Modern Drummer last year when the Paragon line came out.




Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

Uh....pardon my ignorance here, but hasn't Art Blakey been dead since 1990? Wouldn't be hard for him to endorse anybody's cymbal made after his departure? I don't mean offense here; I am weary of the marketing people saying "oh, yeah - this is what Art, Tony or Buddy really used!" in hopes of more sales. This may be why Neil Peart always used to take acetone to his cymbals and remove the logos! I read this in a Modern Drummer last year when the Paragon line came out.




Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

really?! yes, art blakely has been dead since 1990. i'm confused. when did the sweet

ride come out? it says on this page http://zildjian.com/EN-US/artists/artistDetail.ad2?artistID=2583

that his set up consisted of:

14" new beat hats
18" crash ride (2)
21" sweet ride

all avedis zildjian.

so you're saying that the sweet ride came out after art had died?

[photon]

Yeah the sweet ride is nice. My instructor has one as well. I would highly recommend it.

[Drummer Karl]

look: Louis Bellson plays the sweet ride but ALSO travis Barker (!!!) plays one. so not also pure jazz players like this sweet sound, also rock players! would be perfect for your style and if you like it: take it.

Karl

[jazzgregg]

really?! yes, art blakely has been dead since 1990. i'm confused. when did the sweet

ride come out? it says on this page http://zildjian.com/EN-US/artists/artistDetail.ad2?artistID=2583

that his set up consisted of:

14" new beat hats
18" crash ride (2)
21" sweet ride

all avedis zildjian.

so you're saying that the sweet ride came out after art had died?

I think what he's saying (or at least I'M saying=), is that don't always believe the endorser set-ups from the manufacturer, especially the 'classic' ones. Look at Kenny Clarke's for example. Do you really think he used those exact cymbals? Of course not, his were older, when everything was actually Hand Hammered. Z is giving the impression that you can walk in and buy the same stuff Kenny was using and it just ins't true. They were VASTLY different cymbals. An "A Zildijian' in 1940 is not what it is today, despite the name. How about Cozy Cole's 18" Cie crash? Yeah, right. He maybe used an ORIGINAL made in the 1920's or whatever, but not anything you can buy today, and so on. I've heard this complaint about Z before since they have so many legendary 'endorsers', take anyone's set up who you've not seen play with more or less a grain of salt, especially the old cats.

This isn't even mentioning how many artists today are endorsed by one company but use another eintirey. Yeah, Al Foster is really using a 22 K Custom Dark Ride-lol.
Etc, etc.

Now, this has nothing to do with whether or not a 'Sweet Ride' will work for you, only your ears can decide that.

G

[T-1000]

The Sweet ride is one of the most versatile rides on the market. I use mine as a left-side ride for softer stuff, because it has a great delicate ping and a nice tone when played softly - but it also doubles as a second crash. Oh yeah, and the bell is awesome!

You really can use it in any way, for any (musical) situation - and relatively easy on the wallet as well, so I'd recommend it.

[Cymbalrider]

I played on both a Sweet Ride and the 20" medium ride (I also own this one for some reason) in a jazz gig side by side. I really couldn't tell the difference in the two and for $100 or so more, I'm not sure it would be worth getting. The only Zildjian I can recommend is the A Zildjian & Cie. Vintage model they make now. It is the closest thing they have to the old crash rides. The new crash rides sound weird, they remind me of 70s med. rides. High pitched and ringy.

[dom]

The sweet ride is very versatile. It has a nice ping with a decent amount of wash. I love the crash sound the most.

[AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken]

I don't know, now I'm liking the Z Custom Medium Ride (22") better. Seems a little brighter in the ping, and if I ever have money again I'd like to balance out a semi-bright ride like the K Custom Medium with a Paiste Dark Energy MKII. Seems that would give me a good spread.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

ok, zildjian finally replied back to my question:

"when did the 21" avedis sweet ride come out? after 1990? if so, why does your cymbal configurator show art blakely as using/endorsing one?

their answer:

"Our vastly successful A Zildjian Sweet Ride was first introduced in 1998. In order to show some replication of what vintage artists used before specific models were introduced, we need to choose similar items that are now found within our Cymbal Configurator listing. We are sure that Art Blakely would have loved the Sweet Ride if it was specifically available during his time. That cymbal was in fact, designed from a very early ride model that would have been found during Art's tenure as a player."

wow.

that's terrible, is it not? ouch zildjian, that hurts your reputation in my book.

[Miggle]

I've been reading a lot on how the Avedis medium ride sounds very similar to the sweet ride, that the sweet ride is basically a 21" avedis ride.

I have this feeling I got to get the Avedis ride selling here for $90 and sell the K custom dark ride at twice that price. K Dark blends nicely, but i find it not too versatile and the bell is weak.

[Cymbalrider]

Perhaps he would have joined Morello, Thigpen, DeJohnette, and others and gone SABIAN... :)

It's true, for all the old artists, Zildjian says that they just put those on there. Which I believe pretty strongly that those drummers wouldn't use the modern versions of those cymbals. Not to mention those guys got custom made cymbals from Avedis and Armand Zildjian. For example, you can't say that Buddy Rich would be using the modern New Beat hi-hats. I think it would be neat, however, to see what all those guys would use in today's market. I think we would all be surprised. They might be Bosphorus endorsers or something...or even worse...PAISTE...just kidding.

[Supersteve]

Stay with the same family of cymbals, it you go with Zildjan A for one cymbal, Stay with that line for the rest also.

[Fur drummer]

The A Sweet Ride is great for jazz. It is a beautiful looking and sounding cymbal.

[ege_the_drummer]

I don't know, now I'm liking the Z Custom Medium Ride (22") better. Seems a little brighter in the ping, and if I ever have money again I'd like to balance out a semi-bright ride like the K Custom Medium with a Paiste Dark Energy MKII. Seems that would give me a good spread.

Be careful with that Z Custom....Z Customs are VERY loud and might not suit a jazz setting. If you looking for something with that can fit a jazz and rock setting, you might want to try an Avedis Medium Ride or stick with the Sweet Ride. Both are great sounding cymbals.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

Stay with the same family of cymbals, it you go with Zildjan A for one cymbal, Stay with that line for the rest also.

why? why limit yourself to one line?

[Supersteve]

why? why limit yourself to one line?


That is what I was told by my drum teacher to do to get all the sounds matching and souding alike it makes since to go with all the same family of cymbals.

[KR3]

I'm actually in the market for a sweet ride. I played one a couple of months ago and really liked it but didn't purchase it. Now everytime I stop in a music store I try one out but no luck, haven't found that sound again. They are inconsistant in the way they sound. I should have purchased the one I really liked...just got to keep looking I guess.

[skunkyjoe]

That is what I was told by my drum teacher to do to get all the sounds matching and souding alike it makes since to go with all the same family of cymbals.

Nah, you can mix and match and still have your cymbals blend. Hell you could even mix brands and they'll mix. The pros all mix. Very few play exclusivly As or A Customs or Ks or AAs or AAXs or HHXs...most blend.

-AG

[evans_69]

the sweet rides are better used for crashes lol.....i am serious though great rock crash, paired up with the zildjian k 20" ride of a 20" aax stage ride.... i wouldnt use it but me mate has tried it...

[Skitch]

Be careful with that Z Custom....Z Customs are VERY loud and might not suit a jazz setting. If you looking for something with that can fit a jazz and rock setting, you might want to try an Avedis Medium Ride or stick with the Sweet Ride. Both are great sounding cymbals.
I visited Troy's Drum shop in Carrollton, Texas on Tuesday. For a small "Mom and Pop" store, they had a great selection of Zildjians. The 19" Armand Ride was a good jazz ride and the K Constantinople Medium Low was a great cymbal but expensive. The Sweet ride was to high and pingy for me as a jazz cymbal, though and if you are thinking Medium Ride, you may want to try one with rivets. Then in the corner was a 24" K Constantinople with rivets. I think this is refered to as a Stan Kenton ride. It was huge!!!

Some of these rides are very specific as to their intended purpose. How about a 20" Deep Ride? I would definitely stay away for the Z Customs if you are looking for versatility. Alan White of Yes used a Z Heavy Power Ride on the Big Generator album. When I listened to one of the hit songs on that album I kept wondering what that annoying sound was, thinking it was a guitar overdub. It was that Z ride cymbal and it is there forever!

By the way, Troy and Heather were very friendly and I would recommend a drop in visit if you are in the area. They actually have the Tommy Aldridge rack from Tommy's Whitesnake days.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
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[thumper]

My god, yeah, stay away from those Z Customs, unless you are into heavy metal. I tried a 22" Power ride once at a gig, and my band wanted to kill me. (Hell, I wanted to kill me too). NO wash whatsoever, just PANG PANG PANG!
ATCNAT, I think you are right about the Sabian ride cymbal selection as well-I tried quite a few (20" Sabian Pro, 22" Paragon, 20" AA Medium/Heavy, 20" Hand Hammered Medium as well as the Zildjian Z Custom abortion), and they weren't what I was looking for. Then I tried a Zildjian 22" K ride, and looked no further. I was told it is a "jazz oriented" cymbal, but I use it for soft and medium rock, and it is PERFECT!
All this crap about not mixing cymbals, is just that: CRAP. The K ride blends in so nice with all my Sabians (and my 16" Wuhan China). It's all how it sounds to your ear.I'm kicking myself now for my stupid "Sabian only" prejudices....cost me a lot of time, and money for trade ins:(

[CVdrummer]

i love the 21' sweet ride


i use one at school for jazz band, i couldn't ask for a better cymbal (well actually i can, but you know..you can never satified us drummers)

[AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken]

I actually ended up getting a really sweet deal on eBay for a ~30 year old Zildjian Avedis 20" ride in excellent condition. I'm not sure of its official name but it sounds remarkably like the Sweet Ride. I'm using it with my Paiste Light/Dark 20" Ride and that gives me a really nice range.

And I don't know why anyone would think mixing cymbals or heads is wrong. If everyone played only one line, that would limit your possibilities. I wouldn't settle for a crap ride just because it had a certain name on it. But that's just me.

[gretsch223]

I actually ended up getting a really sweet deal on eBay for a ~30 year old Zildjian Avedis 20" ride in excellent condition. I'm not sure of its official name but it sounds remarkably like the Sweet Ride. I'm using it with my Paiste Light/Dark 20" Ride and that gives me a really nice range.

And I don't know why anyone would think mixing cymbals or heads is wrong. If everyone played only one line, that would limit your possibilities. I wouldn't settle for a crap ride just because it had a certain name on it. But that's just me.
i agree....

my rock cymbal setup:

14" new beats
18" paiste alpha china (very good sound for an alpha)
18" vault crash
16" A custom crash
8" avedis splash
20" a custom ride

mostly zildjian but still mixed

[OZjazzer]

ok, zildjian finally replied back to my question:

"when did the 21" avedis sweet ride come out? after 1990? if so, why does your cymbal configurator show art blakely as using/endorsing one?

their answer:

"Our vastly successful A Zildjian Sweet Ride was first introduced in 1998. In order to show some replication of what vintage artists used before specific models were introduced, we need to choose similar items that are now found within our Cymbal Configurator listing. We are sure that Art Blakely would have loved the Sweet Ride if it was specifically available during his time. That cymbal was in fact, designed from a very early ride model that would have been found during Art's tenure as a player."

wow.

that's terrible, is it not? ouch zildjian, that hurts your reputation in my book.

That's a real marketing shocker "We are sure Art Blakey would have etc etc ......." Wow, with that kind of logic prevailing at Zildjian it makes you wonder about all the other dead guys in their stable of endorsers. Zildjian don't have to do this sort of crap, why do they?

[jazzgregg]

Wow. I'm with OZ, that's just stupid, they've really outdone themselves with that one. What are Z thinking..oh, wait, they're obviously not. All you Z users should be ashamed of yourselves=) It makes them sound like stupid message board speculation- what would Bonham have thought of Slipknot or whatever...

RFUS- thanks for asking Z the questions and showing them for what they are. More people need to know their constant lies and desperation.

G

[Skitch]

really?! yes, art blakely has been dead since 1990. i'm confused. when did the sweet

ride come out? it says on this page http://zildjian.com/EN-US/artists/artistDetail.ad2?artistID=2583

that his set up consisted of:

14" new beat hats
18" crash ride (2)
21" sweet ride

all avedis zildjian.

so you're saying that the sweet ride came out after art had died?

Yes, the Sweet Ride came out after Art had Died. That is what I am saying.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

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http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw (”http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw”)

[Skitch]

ok, zildjian finally replied back to my question:

"when did the 21" avedis sweet ride come out? after 1990? if so, why does your cymbal configurator show art blakely as using/endorsing one?

their answer:

"Our vastly successful A Zildjian Sweet Ride was first introduced in 1998. In order to show some replication of what vintage artists used before specific models were introduced, we need to choose similar items that are now found within our Cymbal Configurator listing. We are sure that Art Blakely would have loved the Sweet Ride if it was specifically available during his time. That cymbal was in fact, designed from a very early ride model that would have been found during Art's tenure as a player."

wow.

that's terrible, is it not? ouch zildjian, that hurts your reputation in my book.

Are you kidding me?????? They actually said that!? The original marketing on the Sweet Ride - and correct me if I am wrong here and I am sure someone will - but the Sweet Ride protoype was one from Armand's private collection! It sounds as if Zildjian is starting to have some credibilty issues here, all for a cheap marketing ploy.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
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[Skitch]

Wow. I'm with OZ, that's just stupid, they've really outdone themselves with that one. What are Z thinking..oh, wait, they're obviously not. All you Z users should be ashamed of yourselves=) It makes them sound like stupid message board speculation- what would Bonham have thought of Slipknot or whatever...

RFUS- thanks for asking Z the questions and showing them for what they are. More people need to know their constant lies and desperation.

G
Okay, just out of curiousity, I did some digging on this whole "Art Blakey would have endorsed" thing:

From the 1958 Cymbal set-ups of Famous Drummers, a booklet marketed by Zildjian themselves:

Art Blakey 14" Hi Hats ( Medium Thin); 18" Crash Ride( Medium Thin); 20" Sizzle (Medium)

From another Cymbal set-ups of Famous Drummers (early to mid-1970s), a booklet marketed by Zildjian themselves:

Art Blakey 14" New Beat Hi Hats; 20" Ride (Medium); 21" Ride (Medium)


From another Cymbal set-ups of Famous Drummers (Copyrighted 1980), a booklet marketed by Zildjian themselves:

Art Blakey 14" New Beat Hi Hats; 20" Ride (Medium); 21" Ride (Medium) and the only change from the previous booklet an 18" Mini Cup Ride (which were awful in my opinion).

Don't even get me started on what they say Steve Gadd was using in 1980: 14" New Beat Hi Hats, 18" Medium Thin Crash, 20" Deep Ride, 22" Medium Ride, and a 14" Thin Crash Sizzle. Uh....this was right before Zildjian introduced the new K Zildjian line, known today as the Early American Ks or EAKs.

Okay, so here you have some idea of what Art may have been using. In my opinion, Zildjian should have never infered this. It hurts their credibilty which is the only real thing we have to offer in this world. Maybe what they meant to say is, "This is what we would have given Art in his annual allotment or paid him to say that he used."

And now I think back to a Gregg Bisonette clinic where he said that he chose from the cymbals that the store had to offer for sale which speaks volumes for Gregg as a class act!!

Then Dave Weckl brought in his own hand-selected cymbals alotted to him from the vault. THis was about the time the K Custom thing started where Dave and Steve Smith's K Customs were ALOT thinner than the ones offered to the rest of us (which are basically unlathed Rock Rides). Sorry about the tirade here but I get sick of slick marketing. And what is hurting Zildjian the most right now is that their field of competition has broadened to where the whole genuine turkish cymbal thing really is no long true


So how about it Zildjian? Quit all the marketing hype and return to what got you where
you are: making great cymbals and offer them to the everyday drummer!



Mike

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[rendezvous_drummer]

I am trading in my Sabian 20" AA rock ride for a Zildjian 21" A Sweet Ride. I went today to Long n McQuade with the intentions of possibly purchasing a K 20" ride, but instead, fell in love with the sweet ride.

[jazzin']

Sorry about the tirade here but I get sick of slick marketing. And what is hurting Zildjian the most right now is that their field of competition has broadened to where the whole genuine turkish cymbal thing really is no long true



There is no slick marketing going on by Zildjian here.

That is poor marketing of the worst type. Some unfortunate junior will probably get sacked for this.

[Mr. Pasquini]

That is what I was told by my drum teacher to do to get all the sounds matching and souding alike it makes since to go with all the same family of cymbals.

Tell your teacher he's wrong. I use Stagg, Zildjian, Dream, and Wuhan for cymbals.

[jazzgregg]

Tell your teacher he's wrong. I use Stagg, Zildjian, Dream, and Wuhan for cymbals.

No, he isn't. It's his way of looking at it. He is no more wrong than you are.

G

[Cymbalrider]

I just did a gig tonight with a 20" medium ride and 21" sweet ride for cymbals and that's it (along with 14" new beats, bass and snare) Great versatility in sound here. This was in a jazz quartet setting but these cymbals also work for the school big band I'm in as well. I've done funk rock things with them as well. The Sweet Ride is definately a jazz ride as it's really kinda quiet despite is large size. I can't see using this entirely as a main ride though, the 20" medium I have works great for that strong defined ride sound and the sweet ride covers the crashy, low, well...sweet spots. I'm not too fond of Zildjian's marketing strategies either. I could easily get the sound I want in Bosphorus as well but I have Zildjians and I'll stay with that for as long as I own these. Sometimes I wonder about the sanity of Zildjian employees as they realize the need for thinner cymbals but they release a light ride in 24"... the A series changed character in the 1970s and really hasn't since. Some of the K Customs are just weird and besides how many 22" medium rides do they offer now anyway. 22" K, 22" K dark, 22" dark medium, etc. Zildjians aren't bad cymbals you just have to find them yourself and not rely on anything the company tells you. (like they say the new rides work for jazz trio as well as heavy rock...) (they also say new beat hi-hats have been made the same way for 50 years...yet the old one's weighed about 200g less per cymbal) A 1970s medium ride though is essentially todays 20" crash/ride (they do sound the same..kinda weird) today's medium is more like the old ping rides, etc.