STICK TWIRLING AND SHOWMANSHIP TECHNIQUE.

[chino_Ocio]

Hello, I've been a drummer for almost 8 years, and through all that time, I've been only focusing on my technique. Recently I saw a portion of the Thomas lang DVD and realized how a little showmanship can take your grooves to the next level. Can someone help me and show me different stick twirling techniques??? PS... I play traditional grip. Thx!!

[Big_Drummer]

its a kind difficult to teach from here, i saw thomas lang dvd and i can do real twirl, fake twirl, and the helicopter, the buddy rich stick trick and some others, the only thing you have to do is practice, in 3 days you can achieve the real twirl and the fake is too easy

[NUTHA JASON]

my advice is really simple. regardless of which of the many twirling techniques you encorporate.

here's what you do.

get a dowel stick. i used one that was roughly the same thickness as a 7a drumstick but almost twice the length. i began spinning really slowly. letting the momentum of the stick do the work while my fingers grew accustomed to the pattern and feel of it. then after about a week i cut off about 10 cm of dowel. and so on until the dowel was nearly as long as a drumstick (in about three weeks) then i used an old 3a stick and twirled while i was stuck in traffic or watching tv. Slowly i built up speed. the crucial thing is twirling during playing tho. so i began identifying simple fills which i could do with one hand and my bassdrum while my other hand twirled.
aslo have a look at john blackwell's dvd. he introduces a fake twirl which took me one day to learn and incorporate.
j

[C_H]

yea you really need to be shown how to do it but if you feed it through all your fingers you can do what lang does when he does that groove while spinnin his sticks on the hat and snare, well thats what i do, the buddy stick trick is easy to learn but try asking your teacher or someone to show you some cool stuff

[Big_Drummer]

john blackwell's dvd sucks is one of the worse drummers that i watched.

[NUTHA JASON]

i completely disagree. john blackwell is a great drummer and showman. he is a little dull as a teacher and speaker, granted. i guess he really speaks with his hands. but his ability on drums and his respect for his influences are inspirational.

j

[Big_Drummer]

MY FATHER GIVES ME BLACKWELL'S DVD as a gift i think he plays cool song but he has many mistakes in that dvd, you have to watched good and you notice his mistakes, and i feel that he repeats too many times some fills and stuffs and that i dont really like it, maybe im wrong in saying that he is a bad drummer but i dont like him

[Milo]

Take a look at 'Drumstick Spinology' by Steve Stockmal. It's a book that comes with a DVD. He goes pretty in-depth!

[GPinney]

I use stick twirling sometimes in my drumming. But i find that it is better to not use alot. It cann really mess up a beat by twirling. Once you get it down it looks really cool though. My advice is to just practice twirling a stick in one hand while your laying in bed. Then the next day try and add it in to your drumming.

[Alesi]

Jeff Queen, on vic firth`s website, has a lot of stick tricks, like waliking teh dog or hitting the head with the back of your stick

[Jason Dorn]

Stick tricks when used thoughtfully can really develop the feel of a groove and help you keep time through pauses. They can serve many purposes other than just showmanship.

[Rudy McRudster]

I used to really like stick twirling. I even have a book/dvd called "Drumstick Spinology" and it was cool and all, but I sort of grew out of it. I use it for some things, and some of the spins have helped my playing in creating various techniques, but the big, flashy spins, quite frankly, are used a lot to divert viewers from their lackluster drumming performances. Call it cynical but that's what I think.

[DogBreath]

john blackwell's dvd sucks is one of the worse drummers that i watched.

Is his DVD as bad as your grammar? I look forward to your DVD, when you'll finally show us all how it should be done.

=-)


.

[LDGuy]

I used to really like stick twirling. I even have a book/dvd called "Drumstick Spinology" and it was cool and all, but I sort of grew out of it. I use it for some things, and some of the spins have helped my playing in creating various techniques, but the big, flashy spins, quite frankly, are used a lot to divert viewers from their lackluster drumming performances. Call it cynical but that's what I think.

Yeah, that is pretty true.

I still reckon it's cool to be able to do it even if you don't use it that much.

[Rudy McRudster]

Yeah, that is pretty true.

I still reckon it's cool to be able to do it even if you don't use it that much.

Yeah, it's always nice when you can show off to your friends with a stick or something.

[NUTHA JASON]

its part of the whole package. its too easy to program a realistic drum sound ... we could become obsolete as musicians ... but we are not. why? because people love us. they love the idea of us. they love to see us. so we must be more than a drumbeat. we must be a show. we are entertainers first and formost. stick twirling is important.

j

[Jordan]

How do you twirl drumsticks? I NEED HELP!!!

[arjunchawda]

Please can somebody tell me free ways to learn this!??!!!!??!

[NUTHA JASON]

i thought i would merge all these threads and retitle it as

STICK TWIRLING AND SHOWMANSHIP TECHNIQUE.

after all we are much more than drum machines. we are entertainers.

j

[finnhiggins]

I agree that the visual thing is important, but I'm actually fairly anti-twirling. It's kind of hackneyed, to be honest, and as a casual music listener / guitarist before I started playing the drums I used to think it was just lame. I learned to do it at music school - no tapping in class, had to do something with my hands - but I've never bothered learning to incorporate it into my playing.

I'm of the feeling that there's a million other, non-twirling visual tricks we can do that might be actually cool rather than just a cliche that's been part of "show off" drumming for decades... ?uestlove was good at this, he managed to do a fairly hilarious parody of Michael Jackson's dancing while sitting down and playing during a cover of Smooth Criminal. Good to watch, but not twirling...

[NUTHA JASON]

also watching just the facial expressions of papa jo jones is cool while he does a comparitively simple solo.
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Papa_Joe_Jones.html
but i still get a huge kick out of twirling and seeing someone else twirling. if you look at the picture of my practice kit
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1398
you will see that i have two mirrors to see what i can do to make the show behind the sound.

j

[A7X]

you will see that i have two mirrors to see what i can do to make the show behind the sound.

j


Nutha Jason that is such a great idea! how come i can never think of these things!

I always forget how different it looks from behind the kit to infront of the kit.

[Damon Dapper]

@Dog:

Exactly, and well put.


Dap.

[Stevis]

i completely disagree. john blackwell is a great drummer and showman. he is a little dull as a teacher and speaker, granted. i guess he really speaks with his hands. but his ability on drums and his respect for his influences are inspirational.

j

I Agree 150% w/ Nutha; john Blackwell is amazing and one of my idols. I don't think you realize that it is pretty Darn hard to spin both sticks while doing crossovers like john does. Next time do a bit more research. But if you have and you think he's bad I guess you the right to your own opinion.

[Drum4fun]

hi all,

just wondering whether someone can make a short vid or picture guide on how to do different spins and tricks?

i cant find anything that breaks it down step by step.

cheers,

[NUTHA JASON]

here you are. sorry if it is a bit soft but i just got out of bed.

presenting ....

NUTHA JASON'S TWIRLING PRIMER:


true twirl:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-true (http://media.putfile.com/twirling-true)

blackwell's twirl:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-blackwell

fake twirl:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-fake

letting it go:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-letting-go (http://media.putfile.com/twirling-letting-go)

stick on stick twirl (sticky sticks):
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-sticky (http://media.putfile.com/twirling-sticky)

mixing it up:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-mixing (http://media.putfile.com/twirling-mixing)

close ups:
http://media.putfile.com/twirl-closeup

but once you have got a twirl neat then the next step is to play a groove, adapt a fill so that all or part of it can be played with one hand while the other does the twirl, AND NOT LOSE TIME!
hope this helps.
j
ps: i have other twirls (thumb twirl and the change-to-butt-twirl) but maybe another day, eh?

[Bernhard]

Hi Nutha

You????? You!!!!! well, you're a real artist - great!!!

By the way - you can upload these vids also here as an attachment - and loading faster!!!

Bernhard

[HardRockDrummer]

thanks for all those tricks nutha jason! i didn't even know there was such thing called a 'true twirl'. i only knew the 'fake twirl', so I've gotta learn all of them! they're all so cool!
but... i can't watch the 'mixing up' video...i can hear the sound but no video. is there a problem with the server or is it my computer?

[HardRockDrummer]

video fixed now. i can watch all of them :D

[Drum4fun]

NUTHA!!!?!

YOU LEGEND!!

thanks a heap man, those were excellent, and so easy to see what you are doing!

thanks for you time mate, I appreciate it alot.

: D *beams cause he can stick twirl now too thanks to nutha*

[Sticksman]

Wow! You're an awesome showman, Nutha! I can see you as a professional drummer in the near future. Oh hell, what am I saying, you already are pro!

[thetourist]

I was wondering if anyone here as worked on some actual throwing or tossing technique. If youre into baton twirling or something like that, or if youve ever seen it, you probably noticed that a big part of the act is spinning in the air. For now at least, I've decided that its probably too risky to try during a song, or when people are watching, etc. I think its one of those things that you really have to do a million times before you know exactly what kind of spin speed, direction, height and so on you need to control in order to pull it off without flaw. Even though theres a considerable risk in really "letting go" of the stick, I still plan to incorporate a little at least, some time in the future when I really have done it a million times. I was wondering if theres anyone else that has considered or is using such a twirl.

[Sticktrick]

I use some tossing and throwing in my playing from time to time. There is one Toss, that is very easy - Mark Schulmann showed it to me. Sorry I cannot really describe it. I also use some tossing that was on Thomas Langs DVD, allthough his tosses are much more intricate (insane i.o.w.).

I also have some very cool Sticktwirls I´d like to share. Unfortunately I dont have a camera to record it. If I can get my hands on one, i will post em like Nutha did. Btw: Nutha - very very cool work and thanks for sharing. I knew all your tricks allready, but the way you perform them is just absolutely fantastic. Especially your ideas on the John Blackwell thing were great. Keep it up!

Does anybody have a tutorial on the Steve Smith HiHat Solo? I saw it and was blown away, but I have ne clue whatsoever, how he does some of that stuff...

[RudimentalDrummer]

Dear Bros

The " DRUM Mazagine " Issue No.111 which is the latest issue (Aug or Sept 2005) ... cover featuring Mike Portnoy has an article on Stick-Twirls on Page 93 to 97. It teaches us how to put it all together playing & twirling with pictures in step-by-step illustration.

( 1 ) Twirl 1: The Fake Twirl

( 2 ) Twirl 2 : Match To Traditional Twirl

( 3 ) Twirl 3 : Traditional to Match Twirl

( 4 ) Twirl 4 : Index Finger Twirl

( 5 ) Twirl 5 : Horizontal Fake Twirl

( 6 ) Twirl 6 : Full Finger Twirl

It says: - Stick twirling can be a skill almost as vital as playing in time. .... Tommy Lee, Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, Sonny Payne, Chick Webb uses these flashy sticks tricks to add some extra spiciness in their performances and it will of course not take away anything from their reputation .... All the above (6 Twirl) are examples of backward twirl and are for good reasons. After we hit a drum, we can perform a backward twirl during the upstroke, and once the twirl is completed, the stick is position high off the drum, which allow us to take a strong second stroke. There are some other exercises and small writeout in the issue also.

Check it out brothers and cheers !

PS: Nutha ... you're really good ... man !

[RudimentalDrummer]

ya thsoe were good. i knew them all. stick twirling si good to know but it gets borign when peopl use the same twirl over and over.

kekekeke Bro beat1212 ... how come you have the word "Banned" below your Nick har ? ? ?. and yes Twirling is good .... it's entertainment bro ..cheers !

[Anduin]

presenting ....

NUTHA JASON'S TWIRLING PRIMER:



Good stuff.

But you left out my favourite. It's like your true spin, but you start between index and up-yours fingers, rotate the opposite way from your true spin, and go through all the fingers, but not the thumb. I guess it's like the true spin, but goes index to pinky instead of thumb to ring, and it spins the other way. Once the spin is happening, you can keep it going pretty much forever, or until the groupies mob you, whichever comes first.

[NUTHA JASON]

dude film it and show it to us. i want to add that one to my collection.


j

[aahznightsky]

Good stuff.

But you left out my favourite. It's like your true spin, but you start between index and up-yours fingers, rotate the opposite way from your true spin, and go through all the fingers, but not the thumb. I guess it's like the true spin, but goes index to pinky instead of thumb to ring, and it spins the other way. Once the spin is happening, you can keep it going pretty much forever, or until the groupies mob you, whichever comes first.


this is the one i use the most too. you can go wicked fast and never stop rotating in one direction. But i just gotta find out how to film it on my digital camera and post it somewhere ....

ok so i know where ill put it and everything, just gotta wait for the batteries on the camera to recharge and im gonna be out for a few hours. I don't think there will be sound, but you'll be able to see what I'm doing clearly and I'll post an explanation too ...

[aahznightsky]

Ok here ya go, we call it the

Perpetual Spin (http://media.putfile.com/spin-219)

Credit goes to thetourist for teaching me this spin three years ago! And there's no oral explanation but a nice soundtrack that goes along nicely...

Basically there are three positions the stick goes into that you can see in the video, and you use your fingers to rotate it to these three positions. The video (which my little sister operated) started recording in the middle of a quick spin, but you can flick the spin out once real quick to hit a drum and it looks quite nice and sounds natural with practice.
Stopping the stick back in matched grip means not restarting the rotation over again with your index finger and letting the stick come out of the last position with your pinky and ring finger.

You can also stop the stick midspin (stop the momentum with the backside of your fingers) and do the spin in reverse.

i can explain more if you want....



edit: now its working and if you refresh a couple of times it will load all the video and show me going fast with it n stuff not just the slow version

[NUTHA JASON]

i also battled with putfile. is your file less than 10mb? otherwise it won't load up.

j

[aahznightsky]

perpetual spin (http://media.putfile.com/spin-219)

heres the link again just for clarification i suppose

what do you think? questions comments?

[thetourist]

One thing about the perpetual spin, as we have so called it, is that it takes a decent amount of patience to master, as would apply with Nuthas palm-spin. But all things have their purpose. I personally am satisfied when I watch others attempt it at first and then struggling with it, but maybe I'm twisted like that.
Moreover, Its good to have things to practice when forces out of your control prevent you from practicing in front of your drums.

A couple notes on learning how to spin:
First off, always start off slow learning the feeling of transition between each finger, and while trying to flip in such a manner that your fingers maintain control over the center of the stick. Trying to spin towards the outer thirds of the stick will result in loss of control, extra work for the fingers and generally a lack of consistency. To make the spin fluid, make sure the stick is rocking on the fingernail portion of the finger. If you want to go faster, you will have to relax and let the stick carry itself over the guidance of your fingertips, and generally develope a looser feel in your fingers.

But more importantly than any of the above, never give up.

[NUTHA JASON]

good advice tourist!

the real art in the spin is how you start. like fills its how you start it that really dictates how it will end. good momentum in a decent direction and angular momentum and sheer bloody minded determination will finish it off. same as juggling as well. its not the catching that is important but the throwing. (juggling is a long time hobby of mine). your hand must be right near the balance point of the stick (where it should always be anyway). about 1/3rd up from the butt end ....ish.

like i said earlier in the thread and bears repeating here. to learn spinning it is often a good idea to practice with a longer dowel stick that will have more omomentum, travel slower and strengthen up the fingers. as you can see in my videos i am using quite large sticks. they are actually very old marching sticks probably size 2B or something. i keep them by my television. (you should have sticks all over your house.) like the tourist says:
Moreover, Its good to have things to practice when forces out of your control prevent you from practicing in front of your drums.
i spin hundreds of times a day without really thinking about it. its almost a nervous twitch with me. while i read through DW. while i wait for the guitarist to sound check, in the van on the way to gigs etc etc. sometimes just as a cool down during my drum practice. i found i could practice at top concentration for about 40 mins. then it is a good idea to stand up, drink some water, eat a banana, go for a slash and spin sticks for a few minutes. that way you are ready for another 40 mins. and so on.

j

ps: aahznaasky: that video is wicked. its a cool spin. i'm just about getting it already but my pinky (small finger) is weak. nicely shot.

[Anduin]

perpetual spin (http://media.putfile.com/spin-219)

heres the link again just for clarification i suppose

what do you think? questions comments?

Yeah, that's the one I do. Except I start between index and middle. And I go between every pair of fingers on the way up, and it looks like you get a two-for-one deal in there. Basically the same thing, though.

I had no idea there were so many different spins. I knew of only three (with throws in another category). I've never really practiced them. To me they're more just something to do if I've got sticks in my hand and I'm not at a kit.

[TAMBURO]

how is Buddy spin trik, i don't understand

thanks for your help

ps: I own T.Lang video

[dothecrunge]

I have a spin that I haven't seen anyone talk about or show yet. It involves the thumb mostly. I don't have any sticks with me, because they're all in storage right now, but I guess I could make a little video later with a pen or something. Is anyone interested?

[aahznightsky]

I have a spin that I haven't seen anyone talk about or show yet. It involves the thumb mostly. I don't have any sticks with me, because they're all in storage right now, but I guess I could make a little video later with a pen or something. Is anyone interested?

I'm definately interested, but perhaps you should wait till you have some drumsticks lol

[dothecrunge]

I'm definately interested, but perhaps you should wait till you have some drumsticks lol

I don't really need a stick. I mean, it's not really that difficult. I might tape it later tonight, I have chinese food waiting for me!

[aahznightsky]

I don't really need a stick. I mean, it's not really that difficult. I might tape it later tonight, I have chinese food waiting for me!

i dont mean for you, i meant for the purpose of the video and showing people what it looks like with the proper sized thingamajiggy. But it's cool, use whatever ya want

[dothecrunge]

i dont mean for you, i meant for the purpose of the video and showing people what it looks like with the proper sized thingamajiggy. But it's cool, use whatever ya want

It doesn't really matter. A pen is the same shape as a drum stick.

[dothecrunge]

I just tried to take video of it with my crappy GE webcam, and it couldn't capture it very well. Maybe I could try to explain it?

[J0llyhunter]

yes, could someone show me traditional grip spins, almost all of the spins are based on matched grip. i tried to switch from trad to match and match to trad but the players were switching so fast i couldn't see what was going on. so umm...i did a forward spin from matched and i stopped when the stick was between my middle and ring finger and there was my trad grip. i did the true spin which nutha demonstrated above and got back to matched. i hope that's right...cause it doesnt look right to me. haha i also find the forward spin easier than the true spin

[Sticktrick]

I can show you a ton and actually I want to show you a ton. Unfortunately I cannot upload files, because the format my cam produces is not allowed. (I only have a cheap handy cam, lol)

Wait a few days until I have a different camera, then I will post many different twirls and combos. It will be fun to do and watch I hope...

[JOE]

Check out my stick technique on www.luckysoft.net.I'm 66 years old and I know I'm getting feeble.but you guys might see something you like.
Thanks Joe

http://www.luckysoft.net/

[aahznightsky]

Check out my stick technique on www.luckysoft.net.I'm 66 years old and I know I'm getting feeble.but you guys might see something you like.
Thanks Joe


Hey you have some really nice jazz chops! I'm really digging it. Unless its a problem with neighbors (or other ppl in the house haha), wouldnt you rather sell that thing and buy a nice three or four piece jazz kit? I think that would also really help getting gigs with something like that too. But really nice chops, for sure!

[NUTHA JASON]

JOE!!! very cool. that solo is intense. you throw sticks like papa jo jones. great stuff. i love how easy you make the catch look with your left hand in traditional grip. its like watching a magician.

66? you must be like my dad. he also looks ten years younger than he actually is. Feeble? i hope i'm as feeble as you when i'm 66. lol

j

[Bernhard]

I can show you a ton and actually I want to show you a ton. Unfortunately I cannot upload files, because the format my cam produces is not allowed.
.

Sticktrick - please check out again - I allowed mpg mpeg and avi now.....

Bernhard

[Sticktrick]

I just tried but it still doesn´t work. The format is called .3gp
It was recorded with a cam that is inside a cell phone (2 Megapixels and bad bad qual.). Maybe someone knows how to convert it into avi or mpeg.... If so, please let me know. Once again: As soon as I get my hand on a real cam, I will record and post stuff here.

Cheers and thanks Bernhard for the reply.

[jonathan]

Sorry when i interrupt but i have a question. I looked the videos of your tricks and the blackwell twirl too. And now the question how does he beat twirl and beat the next time?

[NUTHA JASON]

do you have the dvd? he uses the twrirl in both directions and does it very fast. once you've practiced it a bit you can make the stick do a full 360 with a flick of your wrist or even just the upward motion of the stroke. have a close look at the dvd to see. in a way its like the whole moeller thing. you can use the energy the stick has from a rebound to start the twirl.

in my experience twirls are like fills. when we are learning a new fill or twirl we tend to concentrate on how it all starts and where in the bar or measure. but in actual fact the ending is the most important part. thomas lang says to throw sticks the importand thing is to catch them on the beat. similarly a twirl is just a more controlled throw. the stick needs to be back in your hand and rteady for the next stroke on the beat...other wise you either do a double take and hesitate or you have to jerk the stick (often in the wrong grip and all) down onto the instrument so you don't miss your window.

j

[jonathan]

i don´t have the dvd i only saw the videos on drummerworld. you´re right they´re very quik and i have a bit english problems but it works. with direction i think you mean that he takes the rebound and twirls or throws the stick up so the stick has after the right position to hit. am i right with that way?
thx for your attention
gretting jonathan

[NUTHA JASON]

sounds right to me. if you are doing it right it becomes so effortless that it feels like you should do it all the time. billy ward calle this sort of non musical movement between strokes - mechanisms. we all do them to a greater or lesser degree... move something on our body to help keep tempo and groove...why not do something that's flashy as well.j

[Rudijens]

thanks for the nice tricks!=O)
for a special tanks im sendig you a video klip where im playing compound stickings and adding some backsticking tricks,hope you can be inspired to try something new enyoy and have fun drumming!=o)
thank you again from jens nielsen( greenland)
my homepage : www.jensnielsen.tk =o) feel free to show other drummers the klip!=o)

[largo61]

Good stuff.

But you left out my favourite. It's like your true spin, but you start between index and up-yours fingers, rotate the opposite way from your true spin, and go through all the fingers, but not the thumb. I guess it's like the true spin, but goes index to pinky instead of thumb to ring, and it spins the other way. Once the spin is happening, you can keep it going pretty much forever, or until the groupies mob you, whichever comes first.


I know what you are talking about. If you do it fast enough most people won't even notice you went through all the fingers. I can do it moderately. The trick I like is called Walking the dog. It is a roll used with one stick while playing traditional grip. You rest the left hand(right hand for me because I am a lefty) on the snare and simply start doing single strokes on the stick with your other stick. It is really cool and is really easy. I taught my guitarest to do it in a few seconds. Watch the video on Vic Firth.com. I saw the video from Jeff Queen I think. I may be mistaken though. But it is a great trick and is incredibly easy.

[DogBreath]

Check out my stick technique on www.luckysoft.net.I'm 66 years old and I know I'm getting feeble.but you guys might see something you like.
Thanks Joe
Hey Joe, those videos are great! You look like you have a lot of fun when you're playing.

[largo61]

It doesn't really matter. A pen is the same shape as a drum stick.


I know that trick. Can kind of do it. It is harder than it looks. I am learning to do it with a pencil and can do it with the stick. Do you you spin around the thumb using your middle finger? thats what I do.

[hotsauce3n]

where do you learn how to do these moves and twirls? i know some basic stguff but i dont know what fake, and all that stuff means, are there websites? videos? anything online would be awesome

[NUTHA JASON]

there are a couple of links in this thread to videos. have a careful look...


j

[nemo]

I have this book, The Next Level from Jeff queen. It is an amazing book
http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/queen.html
It’s a good buy

and john blackwell his DVD is SUPer for STICK TWIRLING and SHOWMANSHIP

[jmr2master]

A simple way to twirl is to first know what fingure you will use when you twirl. Some people twirl in the same spot they play in but others( like me) switch to a different spot before they start. So first know how to twirl, second take the sicks you play with and weight both ends down. (if your are me) you could buy those large rubber band sets, that are about $1 for a pack of 12 and buy a few of those and put on like 3 backs on both sides.( this is also go for chops because you can take the rubber bands off and put them all on the top end and get faster alot quicker) and take them with you everwhere( except to another band, or drum lines practice area).

[Fur drummer]

Thanks Nutha, Your video helped alot. I can twirl my sticks easier now. I can do the fake twirl in a clockwise direction but not in the counter clockwise direction. I still need to work on that. You have been alot of help. Thanks.

[ClockworkOrange]

Stick Twirling and tricks?


I think I'd rather sit there and look 'Purdie'.

I like watchin' Gene Krupa do this, because the man was poetry in motion, but, for some reason...I can't watch anybody else....Tommy Lee is the worst....I'd rather watch a disconnected TV.

[Johnny_Stacks]

Well i think in drumming you are the most important part in a band. doesnt matter if you are in a school band jazz band rock band punk band, any of that stuff. you are the most important person in the band. And part of your job is to get the Auidence pumped. and if your playing at a pub or just at a little show where everyone can see you, my drum teacher tought me this little trick on spinning the sticks. Its just an optical ollusion thow. And the crowd will go insane when you do a drum solo and you life your stick in the air and spin 10. The crowds raction would be like " oh my god whats happening. whats he gonna do next". and that really does happen lol. i did it at my last show and they were amazed:D so i think impressing the crowd is all assentrial to drumming...


Peace- John

[NaturalRaz]

At first I learned to twirl through all of my finger...but found that the stick had to do 2 rotations until I could grab it again to use...and that took too much time. So now....I just twirl between my index and middle finger...and also...you can do as many rotations as you want and you don't have to wait...and its easier to return to your hand for playin. You can do 1 or 100 rotations without having to manipulate your grip too much.

[aahznightsky]

At first I learned to twirl through all of my finger...but found that the stick had to do 2 rotations until I could grab it again to use...and that took too much time. So now....I just twirl between my index and middle finger...and also...you can do as many rotations as you want and you don't have to wait...and its easier to return to your hand for playin. You can do 1 or 100 rotations without having to manipulate your grip too much.

i do this (http://media.putfile.com/spin-219) spin which goes back to tip first after one rotation in case you want to check it out

[Riley05]

hi guys,

drumstick spinology.

Anybody knows ??

I have it and the DVD. It's pretty cool, but I haven't bothered to get too into it.

[green earings]

Thanks Nutha, Your video helped alot. I can twirl my sticks easier now. I can do the fake twirl in a clockwise direction but not in the counter clockwise direction. I still need to work on that. You have been alot of help. Thanks.


green earings here. cant find nutha,s video, is it on line

[NUTHA JASON]

i used a web hoster which deletes vids if they are not used for thirty days. i will put them up again for you now.


j

[NUTHA JASON]

her you are.

http://rapidshare.de/files/6057937/twirling_fake.MOV.html

http://rapidshare.de/files/6058364/twirling_true.MOV.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/6058364/twirling_true.MOV.html)

http://rapidshare.de/files/6058506/twirling_blackwell.MOV.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/6058506/twirling_blackwell.MOV.html)

http://rapidshare.de/files/6058179/twirling_letting_go.MOV.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/6058179/twirling_letting_go.MOV.html)

http://rapidshare.de/files/6058273/twirling_sticky.MOV.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/6058273/twirling_sticky.MOV.html)

http://rapidshare.de/files/6058824/twirl_closeup.MOV.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/6058824/twirl_closeup.MOV.html)

http://rapidshare.de/files/6058998/twirling_mixing.MOV.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/6058998/twirling_mixing.MOV.html)

let me know if it doesn't work. remember to scroll down the page and click free and then wait for about twenty seconds.
j

[Kris]

Well i think in drumming you are the most important part in a band. doesnt matter if you are in a school band jazz band rock band punk band, any of that stuff. you are the most important person in the band. And part of your job is to get the Auidence pumped. and if your playing at a pub or just at a little show where everyone can see you, my drum teacher tought me this little trick on spinning the sticks. Its just an optical ollusion thow. And the crowd will go insane when you do a drum solo and you life your stick in the air and spin 10. The crowds raction would be like " oh my god whats happening. whats he gonna do next". and that really does happen lol. i did it at my last show and they were amazed:D so i think impressing the crowd is all assentrial to drumming...


Peace- John

And that, my friend, is why all of us on drummerworld are better than you. Judging from that statement you just made, I can establish that all of us here are far better at drumset than you. Sure you might have some cool grooves and a few stick tricks, but your attitude is wack..

You're very arrogant when it comes to drumset playing... The only time a drumset player has all the focus is when he/she is soloing. If you try hogging the show, you'll never get anywhere. While playing drumset you should be trying to make all the people around you sound better. You should try to make the musicians in your band sound that much better while playing.

No person in the band is more important than the other.. If you feel that because you take 2 drumsticks and hit them on drumheads makes you more important, *points*, there's the door, please use it. There are things you miss while trying to hog the show by thinking your more important. Your bass player or guitar player could be ripping some cool riff, and because you're back on your drumset showing off too much you fail to see it and your crowd is caught between 2 different worlds. In 1 view is an arrogant drummer pounding his chest trying to look good, and a bass player that's taking his time in the spotlight and ripping a cool bass rhythm.

Now I know that you're gonna try saying that your the most important because you keep time... You're very sadly mistaken there... Any band can make it just fine without a drumset player. They don't need you to keep time. They're musicians enough that they can feel the beat or move their head or tap their foot or something. Sure it doesn't sound nearly what it would with a drumset player, but you must realize that the band members are equal. All the members of a band make the puzzle complete. When you have a complete puzzle and decide to make a piece larger, you mess up the form of the puzzle. Conserve yourself bro. I'm sure you've got some pretty good chops and can really play, but control it. When the time comes for you to solo, kick it and go all out, but when the band is playing, don't try hogging the show. Try your best to make them sound as best as possible.

[NUTHA JASON]

while i understand the good educational point you're making Kris, i think that it is you that needs to adjust. this post above is extreemly rude. 4th post and you are coming down very heavily on one of our members.
statements like:
And that, my friend, is why all of us on drummerworld are better than you. Judging from that statement you just made, I can establish that all of us here are far better at drumset than you. Sure you might have some cool grooves and a few stick tricks, but your attitude is wack..

are not allowed here. Johnny_Stacks was expressing his love for the instrument and showing us a window into his own experience so far. He doesn't suggest hogging the show, but rather playing a very large part in it, instead of hidding in the back line. who are you to slap him down with such harsh terms. be warned that your approach is not what this forum is about. anything else remotely this harsh from you and i will ban you.

in terms of what johnny was saying i actually agree with him to a large extent. visually drums are very exciting to watch. the sound of drums are so very pointed that mistakes on drums are a lot harder to forgive than a wrong chrod or and out of time vocal entry. in this modern world where programmed drums can and most often do sound far better than real drums, drummers have held their expensive (in terms of gear, stage space and transport)position literally because there is a primal fascination with the physical playing of drums. peopl like to see us.
j

[BrokenGlass]

Yea I was trying to do the fake twirl in a beat and I figured it out. But....I pretty much gave myself a wood burn on my finger and bruised up the side of my nuckle. Any pointers on how to incorporate other types of spins into my playing?

[NUTHA JASON]

Look at twirls as silent fills. each fill has an internal count...like syllables. blackwell's marching twirl has a count of one, a full fake twirl has a count of four and the true twirl i use counts as a three. also some twirls end with the hand moving up or down and a twirl on the up has to have a further count to bring the stick down on a cymbal. now like fills the twirl has to fit in the bar structure.

so the upshot of all this gobbledeegook above is that you should examine your own twirls and see how long they are and how they can be counted and then practice putting them before a crash.

also it is essential to see how you can play feet and the spare hand while the twirl is in progress. my first step was to start playing the standard fills with a single hand...this is still very much a work in progress.

further look into the structure of the song. put twirls in the stops.
eg (summer of 69):
'those...were....the.... best...days...of...my...life ...
beat beat beat beat beat flam space space space..crash...
..................................twirltwilrtwirl. .......
j

[JT1]

I'm right handed so obvioulsy i find it difficult to fake twirl with my left. Does anyone have any methods for practicing fake twirling with the left hand? Cheers

[HeyMang]

Um. Well. I dont have much advise other than listen to Nutha. But....i nealy pooped myself watching this. :)

http://www.geocities.jp/thetroposphere/videos.html

sigh ...imagine what they could do with a drumstick..

[NUTHA JASON]

great post heymang. i think i'm gonna try to adapt some of those to my repertoir. incredible what a person can come up with while waiting at a desk.

j

[candlemass]

Check out my stick technique on www.luckysoft.net.I'm 66 years old and I know I'm getting feeble.but you guys might see something you like.
Thanks Joe

http://www.luckysoft.net/

I'll leave to you the comment I did in the awe of watching your video:

"That m*****f***** does it great!!!"

Keep loud,
Eduardo

[Khempejjer]

Hello!

I recorded a video yesterday, and I share it with you now.
It's a basic trick, but I think it's worth seeing, at least, because of its quite good speed.
Here you are: http://khempejjer.atw.hu/rudiments/twirl.rar

[Mdrums83]

i completely disagree. john blackwell is a great drummer and showman. he is a little dull as a teacher and speaker, granted. i guess he really speaks with his hands. but his ability on drums and his respect for his influences are inspirational.

jWell Said, John Blackwell is fantastic the video under his page is a prime example.

[CraigJ]

For any Neil Peart Fans out there, I had just finished watching the RIO DVD, there is some kind of twirl which looks like its helicopter. Is there any short video clip or explanation on how to do that trick, 23 years of drumming, I have never understood that, I had slowed the DVD down and observed .

[NUTHA JASON]

thomas lang does a good explaination of it in his dvd. it looks cool but mostly as a marching twirl because it is lost behind a drumkit. i only practice twilrs i can lift up for the audience to see.


j

[fizzyfox]

lololol! I thought stick twirling went out of fashion with poodle rockers!...guess not :o(

if its showmanship you want put water on your floor tom (lame), or just smash the **** outta your kit on the last tune! (expensive)

[NUTHA JASON]

well you don't have to go that far. it takes surprisingly little to blow the average joe away. i sometimes have to wipe the sweat off my forehead in the middle of a groove and i unconsciously do this while keeping everything going with my left hand. i almost always catch someone staring at me in amazement and then tugging their friend's arm and pointing when i do this. even dropping a stick and not losing the beat gets admiration. its all part of the act. its something a sequencer will thankfully never be able to do ... that is until they build them like this....

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/vdrum.jpg (http://photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/?)

and then we drummers are really in trouble.

[Johnest]

First post here...
I totally agree with Nutha Jason about all that showmanship thing. I mean, you go to a show and you expect to be entertain, not just to see some musicians play music like some kind of robots. When i spend money to see a band perform live i don't want them to play like they have a baseball bat in the ***... It's suppose to be entertaining! So let's throw some sticks and make them twirl like crazy.

I'll take an exemple... I have seen the latest Motley Crue's show (carnival of sin)... Not so great musicians and an ''average'' drummer (no offense intended here) but man, that show was amazing!!! That's entertainment. The opposite was when i saw System of a down live... Great drummer but he play like a robot, he doesn't seem to have fun at all.

P.S. Excuse my poor english, i'm a frenchman from Québec city.

[pearl_floyd]

I'm pretty new to drumming and some of the tips for showmanship have been really helpful but my internet is extremely slow so i can't watch the videos that many members suggest. Does anybody have any simple tips to get me started on tricks with the sticks?

[fizzyfox]

Well I think the most impressive (showman-type) thing I've seen is on a Rainbow live concert on VHS

The drummer was doing a solo and grabbing sticks from his bag, hitting them on the cymbals and making them fly into the crowd....these things were flying though....right to the back of a major venue!! Everytime he hit a cymbal (which was in time of course) a stick flew off the cymbal and into the BACK of the crowd.

Well....I was 15 at the time so I was bound to be impressed, but care now...give me a drummer with a passion for his instrument and I'm a happy bunny....oh...they gotta be good though ;o)

Fizzyfox.

[Smoky_McPot]

The opposite was when i saw System of a down live... Great drummer but he play like a robot, he doesn't seem to have fun at all.


I saw System Of A Down at the Gold Coast Big Day Out - and i cannot agree. Whilst he didnt do any stick twirling as far as a saw, he was definately grooving and the music was coming on fast and hard. The whole band really seemed to enjoy pumping out Tentative off the new Hypnotize album - before either Hypnotize or Mesmerize were released!

[candlemass]

This year I got to watch a Whitesnake/ Judas Priest concert here. Tommy Aldridge, who works with Coverdale for many years now, is IMPRESSIVE specially if you consider he's already pushing his 50's.

He keeps his hair big, so watching him was like a comeback to the 80's. He headbangs with the songs and something he's ALWAYS doing is: Raising his left hand and make a, um, let's say, a "6" with the hand, before a snare drum note. He can do it for a whole song, and he's always playing with maximum force. I wonder how tiring that is, because he's not playing with his fingers, he's moving his arms and shoulders, and I've heard he has had trouble with his shoulder in the past.

Still, he's something very cool to watch. And of course, he's always twirling his sticks.

Edu

[dawg]

regarding john blackwell,the part i saw regarding his drum twirling was quite amazing.i saw a cat in so. cal. named bubba bryant in a small club do the same thing during a solo.really cool!

[Will-Myster]

I learned the fake twirl on my own, But the true twirl is very niceley done. I'm slowly trying to learn it along with the stick toss. I think because any sticks should be tossed or spun, the beat should be down packed. ;]

Will

[JOE]

I'll leave to you the comment I did in the awe of watching your video:

"That m*****f***** does it great!!!"

Keep loud,
Eduardo

WOW!!!!!! What a compliment. I was just playng around in my living room when I did that solo. I've had over 1100 vewings of it mostly drummers since September.It isnt even musical. Its at http://www.luckysoft.net For Drummers Only.

Practice does'nt make perfect

Perfect practice makes perfect.

[anders]

Nathan, I can do that motion on your version of the blackwell twirl.. I can do it kinda fast to, you know like - throw it around.. But I cant make it look soo good like blackwell, and cant do it and crashing...

It's VERY hard to describe, but I hope you understand me.. I guess the question is - is it just training and training? Imo my twirl doesnt look good..

[anders]

Nathan, I can do that motion on your version of the blackwell twirl.. I can do it kinda fast to, you know like - throw it around.. But I cant make it look soo good like blackwell, and cant do it and crashing...

It's VERY hard to describe, but I hope you understand me.. I guess the question is - is it just training and training? Imo my twirl doesnt look good..

[NUTHA JASON]

yes it just comes down to practice. although as my dad always says: perfect practice makes perfect.
once you can do it smoothly start practicing doing a spin (nice and slow at first) between a hit on the snareand a hit on a crash. the momentum and movent have a different effect on the stick and so there is a new set of control to practice. then try crashing left spin and crash right withthe same hand and back and forth, building up speed. soon you will look more like john.

j

[JOE]

Drumming is very visual as well as musical.How you feel about the things you do relate to the audience on & off the stage after you play.The average person wants to see what you do & visualize him self doing the same thing.You could be a beginning player & if you are thrilled about what your doing it projects.Even a beginner is doing things that took time to learn & the person watching thinks is neat.I think a good example was Gene Krupa.He played a good musical tom tom beat & loved every minute of it.One little stick spin with him would just add to the way he felt about what he was doing.

[anders]

I really apreciate the videos Jason - but I'm thinking it would be better for me to do it the other way, because it would have a more natural feel when you are going to crash a cymbal.. Or is it me just thinking wrong here?

[k3ng]

I love this thread. Good stuff.

The twirl I use is like the real twirl, but cut short. I don't go down the fingers, just using 1 finger. I guess it's easier, and still gets the 'wow' thing from the people who see it.

I was wondering if anyone figured out the traditional grip twirl that JoJo does. And any other twirls for trad grip??

[tintin]

hey wassup pple. i'm new in this forum, from singapore. and putfile has banned singapore from using it's uploading services so isit possible if u guys can upload to another website.. say... yousendit.com or something please?

[RudimentalDrummer]

hey wassup pple. i'm new in this forum, from singapore. and putfile has banned singapore from using it's uploading services so isit possible if u guys can upload to another website.. say... yousendit.com or something please?

Hahahaha A Warm Welcome To DrummerWorld & The Real World my bro. I'm from Singapore too. This is a wonderful forum and I see this is your 1st post .... cheers !.

[tintin]

erm?? haha anyone? can REsend those stick trick videos through another uploading site?

[DrumProgressive]

I'm really gonna practice my twirls now after reading all the comment and vieuwing the video's.

The only thing i can do already is a fake twirl, i kinda taught myself but i got 1 problem there. Instead of twisting it forwards, i twist it backwards. It's kinda hard to get in into a groove after u did it. Some one go a solution for that ?

[anders]

It's a good thing to do it backwards, seriously - it's alot harder.. Mike Portnoy do them backwards and personally, I think it's so much cooler... But if you want it the other way, then practice it the other way..

Practice perfect makes perfect ;)

[DamageInc]

does anyone know how to do the thing he does at the end of this vid?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7546058199531426643&q=cody+eivers

thanks in advance.......?

[k3ng]

I think that's just giving the stick a good whack with the other and letting it bounce off the drum into your hand. Can't see very clearly tho.

[DrumProgressive]

It's a good thing to do it backwards, seriously - it's alot harder.. Mike Portnoy do them backwards and personally, I think it's so much cooler... But if you want it the other way, then practice it the other way..

Practice perfect makes perfect ;)

Hmm, maybe ur rite but i can already do the forward too now, fake twirls are just too easy :)

[DrumProgressive]

does anyone know how to do the thing he does at the end of this vid?

thanks in advance.......?

That guy is insane, he rocks those rudiments

[NUTHA JASON]

want to watch some particularly impressive twirling and showmanship? check out jojo meyer in this DW video, about halfway into the video. my word i want to do that stuff!
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Jojomayermoeller.html

j

[DrumProgressive]

want to watch some particularly impressive twirling and showmanship? check out jojo meyer in this DW video, about halfway into the video. my word i want to do that stuff!
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Jojomayermoeller.html

j

That's true, man Jojo just rocks when it comes to rudiments and stick tricks. (btw: check out the pants he's wearing in that video !)

Another question for Nutha Jason: Can u give any tips on how to loop a true twirl the way you do them ? i learned the true triwl from your video but i can't really see how you loop it.

[NUTHA JASON]

by loop i take it you mean do it twice in a row. i grasp the stick at the end of the twirl but purposefully miss the stick with my small and ring finger. so thes tuck behind it and so for a fraction of a second my hand looks like it did at the start of the spinn and so i can then do it again. by this stage the stick has momentum so it takes less effort as well. i only discovered i could do this once i had the twirl very neat. my suggestion is to get a longer dowl which moves slower but has more momentum and then you will be able to see how your fingers need to move.
hope this helps.
j

ps: all of jojo's taste goes into his drumming it seems. lol.

[Latin Groover]

WOW! Just WOW! That vid of Jojo is amazing. That trick he does with the sort of pull back, drop and catch thing is awsome. Id love to c another of Nutha's videos demonstrating this trick. Hint hint NJ.

[NUTHA JASON]

i've still got to learn that one. unfortunately at the moment all my practice time is being evenly split three ways: WFD speed drills, double bass technique (i'm still a noob) and single handed rolling not using the rim.
j

[Latin Groover]

i've still got to learn that one. unfortunately at the moment all my practice time is being evenly split three ways: WFD speed drills, double bass technique (i'm still a noob) and single handed rolling not using the rim.
j


Where can u find WFD speed drills?

[NUTHA JASON]

i made them up. i'm using a drumometer see the thread
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5419
for some of my ideas.
j

[Audball]

Jason, do you happen to have a video of a twirl you use to go from regular (matched) grip to gripping the tip end of the stick for snare cross-sticking with the butt?

As a drumming n00b, I'm not particularly interested in the showmanship aspect of stick twirling yet, but it would be incredibly useful having a transition to/from cross-stick technique (I dislike playing entire songs with the butt of the stick as my instructor has me doing...).

If you don't have time/desire to make such a video, could you perhaps describe your technique in words?

Thanks!
David

[drumst1x]

Hey guys .. first post here ... This thread was great... just read through it... I can't ever really do spins while I'm playing, but i've been messing around with them ever since i've been holding the sticks... I can do the fake twirl pretty much indefinitely (hell, i guess that's why they call it the fake, right?) and I can do the real twirl, going through all my fingers over and over again too.... that open-handed spin I can do also (I actually learned to do that one while back in high school playing Bass Drum.. the bass drum beater was GREAT for that one 'cuz it was so heavy and had so much momentum). Another one which I can do that isn't super cool is kind of hard to explain. It's sort of just letting the stick drop.... Hold the stick in match-grip, then rotate your hand away from your body (like you were about to shake someone's hand) and let the tip fall toward the ground (over your pointer finger). As it falls far enough, put your middle finger out and over the top of the stick, then use the middle finger to pull the tip-side all the way back around and grab it with your thumb and back into match-grip (one full rotation, so the tip is still aimed towards the drum).

Don't have a cam now so I can't post a vid, but it's a quick little one that looks kinda cool....

The only time I really spin are between songs or during periods where' i'm resting... kinda lame I guess, but I have never spent time incorporating spins into my playing.. guess i'm too busy hittin the crap outta everything in view :) lol

Ya'll rock....

[k3ng]

Jason, do you happen to have a video of a twirl you use to go from regular (matched) grip to gripping the tip end of the stick for snare cross-sticking with the butt?

As a drumming n00b, I'm not particularly interested in the showmanship aspect of stick twirling yet, but it would be incredibly useful having a transition to/from cross-stick technique (I dislike playing entire songs with the butt of the stick as my instructor has me doing...).

If you don't have time/desire to make such a video, could you perhaps describe your technique in words?

Thanks!
David

What I can suggest is the twirl I use to go from Traditional Grip to Matched. It's pretty much the same thing.

I don't know if you'll understand it in words, but I don't have a cam to video it.(maybe someone else can do that.)
Start with ur matched grip, and have the bottom 2 fingers go behind the stick (now between your palm and your stick.) Using these 2 fingers, push the stick up through the fingers and over the thumb. It's alot like Nutha Jason's true twirl video, except you don't start by going around the index finger, but going around both the index and the middle.
Hope this helps, in some obscure manner... Cheers

[Latin Groover]

I spose u could also use 'the helicopter.' It's on the Thomas Lang DVD, 'Creative Control' aswell as others. Its also called the 3 point twirl. Going from trad grip to matched in 3 simple points. I dont have time to type it now but i will later sorry. Maybe sum1 else can.

[LumberjackIvan]

I was reading this thread and just wanted to add my two cents. I can do twirls, tosses, and all sorts of tricks while playing including the Jeff Queen "walking the dog" and backsticking. While I agree that some drummers use it to distract viewers from a lackluster performance I think it helps build chops and confidence when moving around the drum set. I rarely use tricks for the pure and simple fact that if you drop, and you will drop eventually, you can ruin a perfectly good set/performance.

[NUTHA JASON]

i stole this link from PDF...

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2XS01DFSI42N33LK97YZK54DGB

Great stick tricks in a zip folder!
J

[VHRocks]

I tend to climb the stick when i twirl. Is there anything that I can do about this problem?

[Ashbash]

yeah that happens to me too

[RamboKnife]

Wow, amazing:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7146132670960308557&q=drums

[RudimentalDrummer]

Wow, amazing:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7146132670960308557&q=drums

Yeah nice Virgil Donati did it....Have you seen the way John Blackwell did it...It's also very good and to me it's very musical.

[k3ng]

Wow, amazing:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7146132670960308557&q=drums

That's the Blackwell Twirl (from Nutha's Twirl Dictionary =P) style he's doing isn't it?

[RudimentalDrummer]

That's the Blackwell Twirl (from Nutha's Twirl Dictionary =P) style he's doing isn't it?

Teach Me the BlackWell Twirl

[Latin Groover]

Teach Me the BlackWell Twirl

Just watch Nutha's video's.

[NUTHA JASON]

check this kid's cool little trick (second half of the vid). excellent!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1736296512865291664&q=Drum

j

[Wegadrummer]

check this kid's cool little trick (second half of the vid). excellent!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1736296512865291664&q=Drum

j

that is just... wow! back to practise!

[DogBreath]

check this kid's cool little trick (second half of the vid). excellent!
j
Very cool! I'm going to try a bit of that.

[Bipitta]

Awe. Dang it. Suddenly I suck at playing drums again!
:P
That was sweet!

And here I thought I was so special because I finally learned how to do a true twirl (much thanks goes out to, by the way, to Nutha for the nifty videos).

Oh well, like wegadrummer says: back to practice!

[RudimentalDrummer]

Nice stuffs Nutha.....I'll try that tonight

[deadbirdsoup]

For about the first 3 and a half years from the start of my drumming career i never thought much about spinning, etc. I havnt used it regularley anywhere. iv started throwing and catching the stick on the beat sometimes plus the fake twirl. Im just basically trying to ask if spinning is a vital part of drumming. does anyone know any famous drummer who cant spin a stick...or spin it well even?

[NUTHA JASON]

at the very least it is one of the quiet skills of drumming. anyone who has been in a studio for any long length of time will tell you that, like the army, there is a lot of waiting around and then suddenly, lots of excitement. sometimes you will be allowed or have the energy to stuff around on your kit but a lot of the times its just you and your sticks and you can even get sick of the ol' practice pad...so then there is another skill which is kind of unrelated and yet cool...twirling.
and like i said before...what seperates us from programmed drumming is our visual 'entertainment' appeal.
j

[foursticks]

For about the first 3 and a half years from the start of my drumming career i never thought much about spinning, etc. I havnt used it regularley anywhere. iv started throwing and catching the stick on the beat sometimes plus the fake twirl. Im just basically trying to ask if spinning is a vital part of drumming. does anyone know any famous drummer who cant spin a stick...or spin it well even?

Bonzo can twirl his sticks. If you watch the Led Zeppelin dvd with the desert thing on the front he does twirl his sticks in some songs...

[RudimentalDrummer]

For about the first 3 and a half years from the start of my drumming career i never thought much about spinning, etc. I havnt used it regularley anywhere. iv started throwing and catching the stick on the beat sometimes plus the fake twirl. Im just basically trying to ask if spinning is a vital part of drumming. does anyone know any famous drummer who cant spin a stick...or spin it well even?

My personal experience. When I first started Drumming. I asked my Instructor to teach me Twirling and he don't seems happy with it. The reason was; - ..... I'm still new and the important thing for me to acquire initially is reading and playing Simple Groove, keeping time and not Twirling I guess.

After 5 months of hard training and now that I can play pretty ok, I'm telling myself.... Twirling is an art...it's SHOWMANSHIP and is indeed an important skill and I want to incorporate it into my Drumming for entertaining purposes. It is very important indeed. I'm not telling my instructor but I will show him one of these days when I perfected some of these incorporating them into my playing...kekekekeke !

Yes, I've seen very very good drummers here in my country who are jus not interested into the Twirling thing (I really don't know why)....but to me If I can Twirl well, it's a bonus.

Funny thing I realise is that when people going to certain clubs they are not so interested in the drummer playing, as long as he can keeps the groove. They go there to drink, talk to girls and love to see the drummer my Friend (Ricky Twirl his Sticks), and they get entertained...and everyone there says..."Good...Bravo Ricky" and they just perceived Ricky as a very Good Drummer. As a drummer myself, Ricky keeps good time, Just play Simple Groove, No Solo and Never Before, He can't read music notes...but he is friendly and everyone loves him....even me.

[heeeres_mikey]

I can spin my sticks in a number of different ways, but i was wondering if anyone had advice or links to pages saying how you do tricks while you are playing, and makes your playing look interesting aswell as sound interesting

Thanks

Mikey

[CanadianBonzo]

I really didnt appreciate the dynamic a few well-placed twirls can add to a performance, so i never really spent any time trying to learn. But, i was bored one day so i started learning some tricks (like fake & real twirl, that 360 thing around your hand, tossing it, etc), and after a week i got most of those down pat. I now incorperate at least one stick trick into my solos, and the crowd response is even better than before. Definitely worth the time and effort to learn.

One of my favorties that gets me lots of positive response from the crowd is to do a sort of fake twirl once around (I think Nutha demonstrates it in his tutorial) while im playing. But the catch is i do it WHILE i'm playing a quarter note ride pattern on the ride or high hats. This way i can do the twirl but still keep a complete solid groove at the same time. And the best part is its really easy.

[Class A Drummer]

just practice goin between ur three mid fingers on ur hand. practice. took me a week to master. But then again i know like 300000 ways to spin my sitcks/

[RTDRUMS]

I was wondering if anyone here as worked on some actual throwing or tossing technique. If youre into baton twirling or something like that, or if youve ever seen it, you probably noticed that a big part of the act is spinning in the air. For now at least, I've decided that its probably too risky to try during a song, or when people are watching, etc. I think its one of those things that you really have to do a million times before you know exactly what kind of spin speed, direction, height and so on you need to control in order to pull it off without flaw. Even though theres a considerable risk in really "letting go" of the stick, I still plan to incorporate a little at least, some time in the future when I really have done it a million times. I was wondering if theres anyone else that has considered or is using such a twirl.

I have been working on Lang meets Peart... while copping some licks from the part of pearts solo where he plays his feet in 3/4 and improv over the top .I was able to incorporate Langs arch toss
well what I do is while playing traditional grip i flip the left stick 1/2 turn back and catch it again with the left hand then hook toss it over my head and catch it with my right hand after feeding the stick from my right hand to my left. after I catch it I hit a china.. All of this is done in time

[Robson]

I just started to spin the sticks when I was watching TV or sittinig in the computer. I can do now the fake twirl, the John Blackwell twirl, the "letting it go" twirl (and double). I just those twirls and started to transform them to other kinds of twirls, right now I can do about 10 twirls, and learnd 8 of them in just a month.

[toolskid]

I'm sorry to be a pain, but I cannot vew ANY videos on 'putfile' I'm sure its just a quicktime incompatibility with my version of OSX, does it require quicktime 7?

Cheers in advance!

[luke-e-p]

I think stick twisting or whatever you want to call it is pretty stupid. Basically, the way i see it (apologise for my blunt approach) is that A. Stick twirling is pretentious, it makes me think less of someone because it shows that they are showing off as apposed to paying their full attention to the music and doing whats best for the band as they should be. B. If you want to F*** up a gig, a good way to start is by doing a stick twirl that you havnt completely mastered, lets talk worst case scenario, you lose the beat, panic, drop your stick, whole band goes out of time - embarresing, especially for the best bands among us.

Its up to you how you go about the approach to your drumming, but thats my view on it

[NUTHA JASON]

except that drummers are also entertainers. i think you are missing a large part of your job. read this whole thread for more on why i think this.

j

ps: i never twirl in the studio...then i am focussed on the music.

[Latin Groover]

except that drummers are also entertainers. i think you are missing a large part of your job. read this whole thread for more on why i think this.

j

ps: i never twirl in the studio...then i am focussed on the music.

Yea definently anyone who twirls in the studio is an idiot. Doesnt make sense, ur not entertaining through sound and visual in the studio, just sound, put all your focus into it. Also i would hate to be twirling in the studio, then muck up and drop the sticks, imagine what the producer would say. Not Happy.

P.S. Im now back, i went on holidays for a few weeks in the holidays, but back to reality now and my beautiful drums, and drummerwolrd of course. Although i still have been practising i just havent signed in for a bit.

[mata]

If you want to F*** up a gig, a good way to start is by doing a stick twirl that you havnt completely mastered

if you want to F*** up a gig just do ANYTHING that you haven't completely mastered...

[Latin Groover]

if you want to F*** up a gig just do ANYTHING that you haven't completely mastered...

Yea, doin a trick u havent mastered is a start but its only the start. There are way more things. Like loosing time, or mucking up (loosing concentration) because ur checking sum chick out, or thinking of sumthing else, trying sumthing u know u can't do etc. We r entertainers. On CD's we are audio, we need to sound good. With an audience if the audience thinks we're enjoying ourselves then so will they. Whats the harm in adding some spark to a show. Alot if you havent mastered it, but you wouldn't do it if you havent mastered it. Same as u wouldn't trying sumthing in ur playing that u know u cant do. The show should of course mainly be about the playing, but stick tricks add flavour to an act, just add a bit of spice, but dont go overboard.

And anyway if you do sumthing extremly hard, that only other drummers would understand the task you just pulled off, but the audience don't, wats the point, if they dont love it. No i change that cause it could just be the audience, or sumthing, and u need to love wat ur doing but stick tricks everyone in the crowd will get, and they will all love it.

[Stu_Strib]

In my experience, stick twirling is usually a diversion from the most important part..keeping the groove. Too many people learn the twirl before they learn the pocket.

If some of these guys would practice playing in time instead of learning a new twirl, their playing would be much better.

If you think it is absolutely necessary then I would say you are a bit of an egomaniac. Most people at a gig are there to drink beer and hear music. Very few people are actually watching the drummer, and even if they are, they probably have no clue as to the complexity involved.

Also, it depends on your type of music. John Blackwell Jr. does great tricks, and the fit the whole image of his gig. Try playing like Blackwell during an Elton John gig or something and watch it fall flat on its face.

[Latin Groover]

Sort of wat i was saying there.

[QUOTE]Too many people learn the twirl before they learn the pocket.
Yep, just wat i rekon.

If some of these guys would practice playing in time instead of learning a new twirl, their playing would be much better.
And yea

If you think it is absolutely necessary then I would say you are a bit of an egomaniac.
Not so sure wat u mean by a egomatic, but yea y not.

Most people at a gig are there to drink beer and hear music.

O.k, i 3/4 agree here. Your right about that, but obviously you wouldn't do showmanship in a non well lit place, but showmanship does add a bit more flavour to the act, but as i already said, as long of course it doesn't take away from the music, you don't want to just see sumone doing stick tricks while hitting a drum every now and then, u want to hear great music/drumming while see a stick trick or two just to add a bit off spice to it, but not to much. The crowd would like it, and isn't that who we are trying to please.

Very few people are actually watching the drummer, and even if they are, they probably have no clue as to the complexity involved.

Yea thats wat i said b4. Most ppl won't understand the complexity to what the drummers playing but they do understand a nice smmoth well placed stick trick or two.

Also, it depends on your type of music. John Blackwell Jr. does great tricks, and the fit the whole image of his gig. Try playing like Blackwell during an Elton John gig or something and watch it fall flat on its face. And yea of course. If i went to a jazz/latin gig and saw stick tricks, i would mind a bit because people that go to jazz most likely are musicians themselves, or just people who like jazz, but would probably understand all about it. Stick tricks should not make apperences in Jazz or Latin i rekon. In rock and other genres, yea but not jazz/latin/fusion when it really is just all about the music.

[Stu_Strib]

Not so sure wat u mean by a egomatic, but yea y not.

Yeah, a lot of people get upset with the term egocentric or egomaniac, when all it means is that you are going into the gig "THINKING" you are the center of attention, when in reality, you probably aren't (Think Singer or Guitar Player here).

Egomaniacs are those annoying coworkers we all have who think their jobs are the most important job in the company for the simple reason it is THEIR job.

Stick Twirlers give me the same kind of creeps, heh.

Besides, if you looked like me, the LAST thing you want is to draw attention to yourself ;-)

[Latin Groover]

Yeah, a lot of people get upset with the term egocentric or egomaniac, when all it means is that you are going into the gig "THINKING" you are the center of attention, when in reality, you probably aren't (Think Singer or Guitar Player here).

Oh yea, now all u had to use for an example is the singer. So many bands are like that the singer is top of the list then the lead g-tar then 2nd/rythem but bassist and the drummer hmmp, who needs them, im at the front of the stage so im the best. Its always (not always just most of the time, sorry if im being pretty front here) the bassist and drummer that r the no-bodys. Id like to see bands with singers like that try to play without their drummer or bassist, they are vital pieces in a band, everyone plays a equal part, apart from singers. Weird isn't it, singers rekon that tey r the top/best in the band when really they r actually the bottom, you don't need lyrics to make music. Of course we do need singers but well, yea u get me. But people who play bass and r the singer or guitar and sing, they still seem to keep a level head. It's just solo singers out the front that are "egomatics". Of course wat ive just said isnt the way for many bands, but still alot of bands, mainly rock. My bands for example in my band with my mates our bassist sings, well now he plays rythem and our was 2nd guitarist plays bass. They both play bass and they both play guitar but their priorities have switched. Well anyway he doesn't think he's above anybody or anything, we are all mates so thats why we don't have any probs like this, and that would be the reason for lots of other people on here, but for the older more expeirenced drummers on here that have been through bands, and played those gigs they will have for sure come acroos these self centered ecentric dick heads.

Stick Twirlers give me the same kind of creeps, heh.

LOL, urh really don't get that, ive already explained myself on this so yea.
Besides, if you looked like me, the LAST thing you want is to draw attention to yourself ;-)
I'm sure ur beautiful on the inside...and if ur not, may god have mercy on ur soul.(And im not even religious!)

[Stu_Strib]

I'm sure ur beautiful on the inside...and if ur not, may god have mercy on ur soul.(And im not even religious!)

Nor am I so I guess that's an empty comment ;-)

[Latin Groover]

damb : -)

dont bash r....

[Latin Groover]

Every one is always saying that the fake twirl is the easiest but i cant do it, ive got the Thomas Lang DVD and when he domnstrates it he just sort of does it with out say how u do it. I cant do it, i dont really care because im not focused on stick tricks id rather focus on groove and other practice but still it is frustrating. I can do it sort of but really its not it, its just the blackwell twirl in my middle fingers, so my wrist is moving, the wrist is not ment to move.

[NUTHA JASON]

egomaniac = rock drummer.

rock drummer = attention seeker = me

and i only practice twirling when i cannot practice drumming.

If you think it is absolutely necessary then I would say you are a bit of an egomaniac. Most people at a gig are there to drink beer and hear music. Very few people are actually watching the drummer, and even if they are, they probably have no clue as to the complexity involved.


not so. at my gigs most people drink beer, hear music AND watch me drum. twirling gives them one more thing to gasp at. leave 'em breathless and wanting more is my motto.
j

[Stu_Strib]

twirling gives them one more thing to gasp at. leave 'em breathless and wanting more is my motto.
j

Or so you THINK...

hehe, just kidding, I know YOU can play Nutha!

[NUTHA JASON]

but your point is well made. twirling must take a huge back seat to the true skills of drums.

j

[foursticks]

i have to agree with u there... there should be more focus on improving your general playing rather than your showmanship.

[gnomedevil]

Hello, I've been a drummer for almost 8 years, and through all that time, I've been only focusing on my technique. Recently I saw a portion of the Thomas lang DVD and realized how a little showmanship can take your grooves to the next level. Can someone help me and show me different stick twirling techniques??? PS... I play traditional grip. Thx!!



Stick twirling is overrated. Dont play traditonal or howerver you spell that if you want to twirl play new school.

[DogBreath]

Stick twirling is overrated.
Welcome to the forum! Come to the Stick Twirling Technique thread and talk about what a waste of time stick twirling is? Great idea.

[RudimentalDrummer]

Stick twirling is overrated. Dont play traditonal or howerver you spell that if you want to twirl play new school.

Hello devil

Stick Twirling is stick twirling ... nothing to do with overrating here, we are talking about showmanship technique here in this thread and not other kind of drum techniques.

Anyway many drummers are indeed very versatile and can play using bothTraditional and Match Grip depending on type of songs or their mood. Why are you so old-fashioned in your thinking - use traditional grip means cannot twirl stick izzit then if that's the case switch back to using Match Grip lol .... Ayoh ..Use your brain, use your brain ?

[NUTHA JASON]

now see this master drummer twirling. eric moore is amazing as a groover and as a chopper but also as a showman.

i have no idea how he does these twirls but by the time i'm 35 i better be doing them.

http://www.gospelchops.com/ericmooremasterclass.wmv

j

[skate4flip]

Hi, this is my first post in the drummerworld forum (I have been visiting the site for awhile though).

I know quite a few more twirls then the ones posted in this thread. I'll will try to get video of them soon.

Any simple fills or ryhthms that combine the twirling with drumming? Ive been drumming for about 3 years or so and ive known the fake twirl pretty much since ive started. I started learning many more twirls from spinning pens in class at school a few months ago (Dec. 05)

[thrashed]

john blackwell's dvd sucks is one of the worse drummers that i watched.

What are you talking about? John Blackwell is a legend on the drums

I learnt all of my stick twirling and showmanship from this guy, he is the god of twirling a stick, however i have not seen the thomas lang dvd yet :P but still dont be so damn dis-respectful,

Show us a video or mp3 of your playing then we will see who sucks

[Rudijens]

My first stick trick video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rswmHaGZtxs&search=jens%20nielsen -Its a litle sloppy but ill work on a new solo this year!=o)
hope u like,if YES please E-mail me and tell me what u think of it!=o)
-Jens Nielsen. (From Greenland!)
www.jensnielsen.tk

[matt949]

well im commenting with my thoughts cause if everyone emails you instead who will bump the thread?

i thought it was really really cool. i especialy like the part when you put one stick down hit it up with the other sitck and catch it. very cool.

[Rudijens]

This is my first stick trick video,i know that my playing is a litle sloppy but ill work on a better stick trick solo doing this year!
Heres the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rswmHaGZtxs&search=jens%20nielsen

---Let me know what U think of it and E-mail me!=o)

-Jens Nielsen (Greenland)

www.jensnielsen.tk

[NUTHA JASON]

very nice work there. you have a nice bag of tricks...mind if i steal some? lol. your snare sounds weird. do you have a white neoprene pad over it or something?

j

[Stu_Strib]

Hey Rudijens,

Fan of the Drumbassadors at all?

If you just have to do stick tricks, this is the way to do them! Pretty cool. And now I'm feeling inadequate again.

[Drummer Karl]

Graet tricks, better than mine!!! I like the video but like the post before said: can record some of your playing??

Karl

[gdlp182]

The video quality is poor. The sound isn't lined up with the motions. So I really didn't bother watching it. Is that a ludwig drum?

[Will-Myster]

Very, Very nice job.
What kind of drum is that?
I want the company, Skin type,
Its a snare I presume.

[DrumProgressive]

That were some of the best stick tricks i've seen so far, keep it coming !.

[Rudijens]

First of you have a good start and i know that you will master it if you continue to practice! But I'm a drummer and want to see you drumming! I saw your webpage looks like you are becoming a pro drummer. Can you record some of your playing with your cam? Would love to see it.

kk Yes i can record i little video of me on my pratice pad!=o)
-Jens Nielsen.

[Rudijens]

Very, Very nice job.
What kind of drum is that?
I want the company, Skin type,
Its a snare I presume.

--Its a new 14" QUIET TONE pratice pad made by SABIAN i use on the video,really nice pad and AMAZING pratice pad,the best ive ever tryed!=o)

-Jens Nielsen. (Greenland)

[skate4flip]

could someone help with doing some stick tricks while playing drumset or snare, like the stuff rudijen does in the snare video? I can do the twirling and drumming by themselves fine but i can't combine them. I would like to know some basic patterns to twirl the sticks to, to help get me started. Thanks.

[Rockter]

Rud...

If I had snare-drum technique like that I would never interrupt it with that silly stick spinning stuff.

All it does is drag your otherwise excellent timing.

I never will understand this stuff.

[Pedro]

That's another example that tell's my softly: "START DOING YOUR RUDIMENTS"

GREAAAAAAAT STUFF!!!!! Keep up the nice work. (I always admire people who have the courage to practice rudiments all day :-))

[cdawg_2010]

I liked the tricks, especially the one behind your back and when you twirled the stick sideways. Keep it up.

[Skameron831]

that... was badass man. the quality was actually pretty good on my comp.
i loved it man, keep it coming.
i wish i could do that stuff....

[kacperivo]

Dude, I've got a question. Did you practice those tricks BEFORE being born? What? You've learned it? Yeah right, and I'm supposed to believe that? Oh, come on! And I'm Frederick Barbarossa. ;)

Oh, or maybe you're a Jedi!

[drummerstar101]

has anyone found a video on the internet of someone twirling i wanna see how many different kinds of twirls that people have come up with

[NUTHA JASON]

um...read this whole thread. its peppered with links dude.

j

[Rudijens]

heres a little video i´ve made 4 fun with a few stick tricks!=o)
let me know what you think of it!=o)
heres a link 2 the video klip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cveBvT0wN4I

-Jens Nielsen. (Greenland)
www.jensnielsen.tk

[Jacko Wacko]

That's so cool! I wish I could do that but I'm really bad at stick tricks.

how long did it take you to be able do all that?

[gazzdw]

Ive been researching the buddy rich stick trick for ages like 6 months now and i still havnt been able 2 work out how its done. jo-jo meyer on this site doesnt make it clear, i'm talking about the actual one handed roll version not the clicking of the sticks.can some generous soul please show me how its done, i so so badly want to learn this technique :).

on that note even the click trick buddy does would be greatly appriciated if someone could show me it.
thanks alot gazz

[pimp_my_RIDE]

I am also a fellow stick tricker, and i think ur pretty good! A-. It didn't happen to often but your tricks brought down the quality of your playing. S'alright though, it even happens to jeff queen once in a while, key phrase:ONCE IN A WHILE(in other words, twice a decade)

[Korompay]

Hello!
Here is a four bar solo with some Gery Brown-John Blackwell type twirls:
http://www.korompayzsolt.hu/solo02tw.mpg
The transcription is here:
http://www.korompayzsolt.hu/Solo.JPG

[emmerson]

Is his DVD as bad as your grammar? I look forward to your DVD, when you'll finally show us all how it should be done.

=-)


.

good point and i agree : ]

[hevy kevy]

Aha! A fun post! I love to spin my sticks while I play. I hold the stick between my first two fingers and have found that when I spin forward, and grab the stick with the other fingers,stopping the stick, it helps keep time on a ride cymbal. That is really cool on crash cymbals. I'll have to get some video, I do a continuous spin on the hit hat and snare with both hands. It would be hard to explain.Some times I do the "fake twirl" on the ride and all I'm really doing is rotating my wrist, which is how I strike the crash cymbals.
I have a vocal mic on my left, so my right hand is more active with that stuff. I don't consider it "fluff because I have no finese" I consider it entertaining and challenging during a song that
does'nt need more noise at the time.
I don't throw and catch like Neil Peart, I'm more like Tommy Lee. And the blacklights just add to the fun!

[NUTHA JASON]

i cannot believe i found it!

here is the video that got me solidly into stick twirling about 14 years ago. watch the last +/-40 seconds of the clip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8PaBjdbn6g&search=poison%20life

[blender]

I was just wondering if anyone had a step by step with pics instead of a video, becuase I can't get any of the videos. Thanks

[Class A Drummer]

heres a little video i´ve made 4 fun with a few stick tricks!=o)
let me know what you think of it!=o)
heres a link 2 the video klip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cveBvT0wN4I

-Jens Nielsen. (Greenland)
www.jensnielsen.tk
Hey could u make a vid. kind of going through i step by step of how u did those cool tricks at the begining? up until the part where u hit the sticks together alot.

Thx.

[NUTHA JASON]

how did he do this one???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA_UuDUr0UI&search=stick%20trick

[The Bob]

here you are. sorry if it is a bit soft but i just got out of bed.

presenting ....

NUTHA JASON'S TWIRLING PRIMER:


true twirl:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-true (http://media.putfile.com/twirling-true)

blackwell's twirl:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-blackwell

fake twirl:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-fake

letting it go:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-letting-go (http://media.putfile.com/twirling-letting-go)

stick on stick twirl (sticky sticks):
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-sticky (http://media.putfile.com/twirling-sticky)

mixing it up:
http://media.putfile.com/twirling-mixing (http://media.putfile.com/twirling-mixing)

close ups:
http://media.putfile.com/twirl-closeup

but once you have got a twirl neat then the next step is to play a groove, adapt a fill so that all or part of it can be played with one hand while the other does the twirl, AND NOT LOSE TIME!
hope this helps.
j
ps: i have other twirls (thumb twirl and the change-to-butt-twirl) but maybe another day, eh?


man u're amazing. i almost got the true twirl. but i can twirl once but i cant start the second twirl faster. ( i think cant back to start of twirl again :) ) do u have a advice to make it clearly?

[Biz]

what do you think of these clips? anyone need a drummer or drum tech?
http://www.myspace.com/17892020

[NUTHA JASON]

man u're amazing. i almost got the true twirl. but i can twirl once but i cant start the second twirl faster. ( i think cant back to start of twirl again :) ) do u have a advice to make it clearly?

thanks bob.

like in most drumming the parts make up the whole. it was a couple of years of just doing the twirl once before i realised i could double it. in the beginning it was a bit jerky, the transition from the first twirl to the second, but then it got better. i found that practicing with a longer stick helped. i got half a pool cue to do this with. the long stick has more momentum so once it is going it kind of doesn't stop...your fingers then begin to figure out where they need to be at the transition point between each twirl.

j

[pdp 9091]

dont know if you have seen this but its a guy juggling sticks while playing

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QWpw19l0dNI

[NUTHA JASON]

that is brilliant. was that anton fig in the house band?

j

[skippy]

yeah thats anton. hes the man. and the guy playing is chip ritter he kicks ass. hes endorsed by trick drums and has his own signature snare. go to www.chipritter.com and check out some of his mp3 solos.

[NUTHA JASON]

as per requests i reuploaded stick twirling primer...here:

http://jasonhorsler.tripod.com/id10.html

j

[hateplow]

Love this thread, man. I remember nearly breaking my computer monitor practicing the twirls when it first was posted.

[MACPCC]

Hello people, First off, I love stick tricks and think they add greatly to your performance if your playing is solid. However, my question is about other crowd pleasers and "show moves."
I'm wondering what other showmanship "things" are out there besides just twirling sticks. But, I'm not looking for anything like puting water on your drums, nothing messy please.
Thanks

[NUTHA JASON]

it takes practice and the right hard flooring but in the right conditions i can throw mystick hard down (parallel) onto the floor and it will come straight back up into my hand.

j

[MACPCC]

what about things the are'nt throwing or spinning your sticks? (If there are any)
thanks

[Drummer123]

Hello, I think stick twirling is pretty cool and I do practice that, but what are some other crowd pleasers and "show moves." I don't ask this to be really proud, but it is fun sometimes. I'm not looking for anything messy or expensive, because there are a lot better things you can do with your money (helping others) and being messy is just disrespectful to whereever your playing

KP
Live for Christ, live like Christ (Jesus)

[franklinj]

heres a little video i´ve made 4 fun with a few stick tricks!=o)
let me know what you think of it!=o)
heres a link 2 the video klip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cveBvT0wN4I

-Jens Nielsen. (Greenland)
www.jensnielsen.tk

That

was


amazing!!!!!


I was watching that in awe the whole time! Good lord man!

[cwignall]

can anyone tell me what technique this is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0B2wtSuUf0

[badlydubbedsean]

Nutha Jason, your videos were pretty good! I'm having fun trying out the trick of letting go of the stick on my palm, it's hard.

A trick I discovered was doing the 'fake twirl' between two fingers, and throwing the stick up into the air straight afterwards. It's quite easy if you can do the twirl to begin with. You just do one spin and let the stick go, then catch it. I'll make a video of it maybe.

[NUTHA JASON]

can anyone tell me what technique this is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0B2wtSuUf0

its hard to tell. i think he may be fake twirling clockwise singles. look at his hads when he's not twirling. is he holding the sticks conventionally or between his pointer and middle finger ready for the twirl after each stroke?


A trick I discovered was doing the 'fake twirl' between two fingers, and throwing the stick up into the air straight afterwards. It's quite easy if you can do the twirl to begin with. You just do one spin and let the stick go, then catch it. I'll make a video of it maybe.

i assume you are going clockwise? i'm rubbish at that. lol.

[Tac3]

The claw roll is always good- its not that tricky, and impresses everyone who sees you do it, even other drummers!

Here's the wikipedia site (there's a video link down at the bottom):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Claw

[Bobhead]

There are some great video examples out there of stick twirling. Does anyone have some good sticking examples to use while trying out certain twirl styles?? I would like there are some good patterns for when playing only on the drums, and also good patterns for when hitting the cymbals while twirling. Do you find yourself doing a double or triple stoke on one hand while twirling with the other??

I'm thinking it would be great to notate the twirl as well to really get the feel of the rhythm going on. Maybe sometimes it isn't timed, but I think many times it is.
Maybe like counting trip-a-let, trip-a-let, you could notate one of them as "x's" showing when a hand should be doing the twirl.

So again, does anyone have some good sticking patterns to use while trying twirling??

thanks

[NUTHA JASON]

good question. yes i think the next step after learning a twirl is to concentrate on what your other three limbs can musically be doing while the one hand twirls. starting with the opposite hand i would work on triples and quadruples and application within parradiddle type figures. once this is in place then unison patterns with the feet going and finally linear patterns with feet against one hand while the other does the twirl. it would be good to work out a few stock fills this way and perfect them for use in shows. make sure you have fills+twirls of various lengths and speeds for different applications. this may be particularly useful at song endings when the time can be elastic and dramatic and space opens up for a twirl (plus i've found that at these points in a live show the band and the audience are looking at the drummer)

for more ideas get the book: 'drumstick spinology' by steve stockmal it includes a dvd.

[bonzolead]

I love seeing tricks,twirling,showmanship when seeing a drummer live but only if it dosen't. effect his or her playing.the playing should come first then the flash.just a thought.

Keep Swatting,
Bonzolead

[Wavelength]

Here's something to tickle yer knickers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZiQ-1aT0UQ

[Big_Philly]

Makes me wonder if he's compensating for something... ;-) But it's awesome! Great to watch.
I can't do any stick tricks yet, and nor do I really have the motivation to spend a lot of time learning them. But maybe one day I will...

[Deathmetalconga]

I agree that the visual thing is important, but I'm actually fairly anti-twirling. It's kind of hackneyed, to be honest, and as a casual music listener / guitarist before I started playing the drums I used to think it was just lame. I learned to do it at music school - no tapping in class, had to do something with my hands - but I've never bothered learning to incorporate it into my playing.

I'm of the feeling that there's a million other, non-twirling visual tricks we can do that might be actually cool rather than just a cliche that's been part of "show off" drumming for decades... ?uestlove was good at this, he managed to do a fairly hilarious parody of Michael Jackson's dancing while sitting down and playing during a cover of Smooth Criminal. Good to watch, but not twirling...

I agree. I think stick twirling is chiched and silly. However, if someone could twirl AND hit drums and cymbals, I think that would be cool.

[glen thomas]

Here's something to tickle yer knickers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZiQ-1aT0UQ

Now that's impressive. I'd love to see him play a kit and do that but even just
what he does there, is cool.

When I twirl sticks it normally ends up in my eye,
smacking my lower lip or flying into the back of my lead singers head....HA!
badda boom, badda bing! :-)

[crazydrummer]

Hi guys !

I made a Sticks Tricks Tutorial yesterday, with 13 explained sitcks tricks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5okeQVUn7aE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdp_-FPMw5Q

I hope you'll like it !

[darknessdude16]

i saw thomas lang dvd and i can do real twirl, fake twirl, and the helicopter, the buddy rich stick trick and some others

Sorry if its a stupid question but which T-Lang DVD is this? I want to look on Amazon for it

[NUTHA JASON]

nice tutorial crazy drummer. wicked skills. the backing track was great but it would have been better to have your voice.

j

[Wavelength]

Sorry if its a stupid question but which T-Lang DVD is this? I want to look on Amazon for it

Creative Control.

Twenty characters.

[Army Drummer]

Your stick tricks are amazing!! Now I want to try it.

[dea]

Stick tricks that actually perform a function ( backsticking, others? ) rock! Stick tricks for the sole purpose of showboating is just uninteresting to me.

BUT!!! They will implicitly increase your stick control skills.

[dea]

This guy has some cool functional stick tricks in this video.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=20148796&blogID=339901186

[bonzolead]

Like it has been posted before stick tricks are cool if it dosen't. interfere with your playing that being said stick tricks are cool because were not playing inside a IPOD were playing in front of people and the people have come to see a show and I'm gonna give them a show rather if they like it or not LOL

Bonzolead

P.S. most of the time they like it. LOL

[LunarNote]

Like it has been posted before stick tricks are cool if it dosen't. interfere with your playing that being said stick tricks are cool because were not playing inside a IPOD were playing in front of people and the people have come to see a show and I'm gonna give them a show rather if they like it or not LOL

Bonzolead

P.S. most of the time they like it. LOL

i prefer not to subscribe to that way of thinking about playing music...i mean.....that doesn't really make sense to me. it has nothing to do with whether we're playing inside an ipod or not...the point of all the stuff we do is to play able to play good music. some musicians do, but i dont think i would ever play a gig where i have to put on a show in that way. ps, i think we all have way more to work on in terms of stuff that is ACTUALLY important than to practice stick tricks.

[hitman050]

Can anyone upload the perpetual twirl again?

[bonzolead]

i prefer not to subscribe to that way of thinking about playing music...i mean.....that doesn't really make sense to me. it has nothing to do with whether we're playing inside an ipod or not...the point of all the stuff we do is to play able to play good music. some musicians do, but i dont think i would ever play a gig where i have to put on a show in that way. ps, i think we all have way more to work on in terms of stuff that is ACTUALLY important than to practice stick tricks.You might have got me wrong the playing comes before the showmanship I do some stick tricks live but I don't. ever let it effect the sound of the band or throw them off and I don't. over do it,I do it because i'm having a good time not to show off.

Bonzolead

[NUTHA JASON]

right. besides i only practice spinning when i cannot practice drumming.

showmanship is a big part of being a drummer. you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. in the studio you are a musician, on stage you are a musician AND an entertainer.

j

[LunarNote]

right. besides i only practice spinning when i cannot practice drumming.

showmanship is a big part of being a drummer. you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. in the studio you are a musician, on stage you are a musician AND an entertainer.

j

im going to venture a guess and say that no drummer i aspire to be anything like has ever spun a stick on stage. philly joe, art blakey, steve gadd, bill stewart, elvin jones....i would be pretty confident in saying that they NEVER did anything like that on any gig.

[bonzolead]

im going to venture a guess and say that no drummer i aspire to be anything like has ever spun a stick on stage. philly joe, art blakey, steve gadd, bill stewart, elvin jones....i would be pretty confident in saying that they NEVER did anything like that on any gig.
What about Gene Krupa the greatest showman of all time and Art Blakey he did one of the coolest stick tricks ever.

Bonzolead

[Wavelength]

im going to venture a guess and say that no drummer i aspire to be anything like has ever spun a stick on stage. philly joe, art blakey, steve gadd, bill stewart, elvin jones....i would be pretty confident in saying that they NEVER did anything like that on any gig.

Well, stick twirling would certainly seem out of place during a jazz gig, but if you're playing a party or a rock gig, a few twirls and tricks here and there will get the crowd even more pumped up.

[aydee]

....I wonder if Tony Williams' fast uptempo ride with the stick bouncing in and out of his hand was a stick trick, or just sick technique...( bounce/ release... somethng like that?)

[LunarNote]

....I wonder if Tony Williams' fast uptempo ride with the stick bouncing in and out of his hand was a stick trick, or just sick technique...( bounce/ release... somethng like that?)

it was definitely not a stick trick, i mean, not to sound like a pretentious jazzer or whatever, but like, that kind of stuff doesnt happen in jazz. (buddy rich doesnt count)

[LunarNote]

What about Gene Krupa the greatest showman of all time and Art Blakey he did one of the coolest stick tricks ever.

Bonzolead

art blakey did NOT do stick tricks. if he ever did, than it was ONCE on that youtube video when its him and elvin jones and max roach, and art blakey does the buddy rich stick trick click thing. Art would never have done a stick trick in any other context. I'm not in music to be a showman.

[abe]

art blakey did NOT do stick tricks. if he ever did, than it was ONCE on that youtube video when its him and elvin jones and max roach, and art blakey does the buddy rich stick trick click thing. Art would never have done a stick trick in any other context. I'm not in music to be a showman.

I hope it won't sound rude from me, but may I ask you why?

[LunarNote]

I hope it won't sound rude from me, but may I ask you why?

yeah absolutely. i mean....well if i want to be really clear about this it'll be a kind of long answer. When i was in high school, up until late junior year, i was really into drum line and that kind of stuff. i practice alll the drumline type of stuff, including stick trick whatever stuff. at about the end of junior year/during the summer, it began to dawn on me that drumline, was bullsh*t. It has nothing to do with anything i wanted to actually be as a musician....i mean...its not the MEANS to an end, it IS an end. The kind of musicians that i most directly want to be like are ones who, for lack of a better term at this point, don't play ANY bullsh*t. Stick twirling is bullsh*t. It has nothing to do with anything. The reason that i abslutely do not want to be a showman is kind of similar to how bebop jazz players felt about louis armstrong, ie, he was a "showman" and an "entertainer" of sorts (im not diminishing his musical virtuosity by saying that, but it still remains true that he was a showman), whereas miles davis would have never done anything in the vein of being a showman if the future of the human race depended on it. thats a little bit more of what im about. i hope that was a somewhat coherent answer.

[aydee]

it was definitely not a stick trick, i mean, not to sound like a pretentious jazzer or whatever, but like, that kind of stuff doesnt happen in jazz. (buddy rich doesnt count)

Sorry LN, I was just being facetious. I completely understand n respect where you are coming from. I also understand the difference between a pretentious jazzer and someone who appreciates and values the intrinsic worth of music in itself, without the bells and whistles.

I'll just say 2 things here. One, I think different artists express themselves differently. Some are Rembrandts some are Andy Warhols. Some subtle some dramatic, Some use brushes, others a chisel & hammer.
Some, like Papa Joe Jones used 'eye-tricks' to keep audiences riveted, while some like Max Roach wore a mask of professorial indifference through their performances.

I dont think good music is necessarily seriously performed music only, though, and in both cases, the audiences find their artists and vice versa.

Two, as a listener there are times when I want to listen to music, there are times when I'd rather dance to it or be entertained by it, as there are times when its nice that its there but you are focused other things. We wear many hats, even as a listener.

I have a musician friend...good musician, and he and I like to hang out and listen to music together and going to clubs to check out the different bands. However, he doesn't much care for Jazz, and everytime I plan on going to a Jazz thing , I have to dissuade him from coming along, because he's just going to talk through the entire evening and ruin it for me... thats when I just want to listen, undistracted.

I'd like to bill him 60 bucks for a ruined Arturo Sandoval evening. We had a blast at a Sting concert though, sing alongs et al.

[NUTHA JASON]

best post in the thread ever aydee

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/4/47/222px-The_Simpsons-Jeff_Albertson.png

[aydee]

Thank you, kind sir.
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