anyone up for some harder stuff?

[Wim Coppers]

for people that like the dillinger escape plan, botch, mastdon, keelhaul etc...

here are 4 songs of our first full length album from my band Officer Jones And His Patrol Car Problems. probably "too hard" for most of you, but aah well, what the heck! feel free to give me some feedback.

Thieves On S. Alcaniz (http://www.mashnote.net/audio/officerjones_thieves.mp3) pretty fast song, finished 2 weeks before we went in the studio, close call!

Palafox (http://media.putfile.com/OJAHPCPP) probably our most "easy listening" song

Female Caucasian Delinquent (http://media.putfile.com/OJAHPCPCFD) is a slower 6 minute song, doomy stuff with samples as the cherry on the pie. (this is the last song on the album)

Deathwish Shooter Cocktail Recipe (http://media.putfile.com/OJAHPCPDWSC) is a hard and agressive song with A LOT of stuff going on.



take care!

http://www.ojahpcp.com
www.myspace.com/officerjonesandhispatrolcarproblems

[finnhiggins]

Wow, I can definitely hear the DEP in there. Awesome playing there, mate. If I had any criticism it might be that I'd almost feel I was listening to DEP - it's maybe a little too heavily influenced in that direction?

But seriously, great job on the playing front. You've got the whole spastic all-over-the-place Chris Pennie thing going on. I can hear a bit of Bran Dailor in there too with the snare fills.

[Class A Drummer]

I cudnt stand that music sry, i only listened for like 30-45 seconds, and it did not seem terribly difficult to me, but i might not have been listening that hard. If i saw the music it wud probably be harder then what i think it is.

[Wim Coppers]

Wow, I can definitely hear the DEP in there. Awesome playing there, mate. If I had any criticism it might be that I'd almost feel I was listening to DEP - it's maybe a little too heavily influenced in that direction?

But seriously, great job on the playing front. You've got the whole spastic all-over-the-place Chris Pennie thing going on. I can hear a bit of Bran Dailor in there too with the snare fills.

thanks a bunch, Chris Pennie and Brand Dailor are 2 amazing drummers, so that's really a nice compliment. we allready played some shows with DEP overe here in europe and i agree, you can hear some influences, but we do our best to do our own thing. i honestly think we succeed in it. anyways, thanks and take care man!

[~tamadrummer~]

I cudnt stand that music sry, i only listened for like 30-45 seconds, and it did not seem terribly difficult to me, but i might not have been listening that hard. If i saw the music it wud probably be harder then what i think it is.
Then why comment on it?

I'll give it a listen later tonite, when I won't disturb sleeping family members...

[finnhiggins]

I cudnt stand that music sry, i only listened for like 30-45 seconds, and it did not seem terribly difficult to me, but i might not have been listening that hard. If i saw the music it wud probably be harder then what i think it is.

Class A, I'm going to have to tell you off for this. The music that is being played there is plenty hard to play with consistency, crisp strokes, tight timing and good controlled articulation - all of which are there on that recording. I think I'll have to file this post alongside "I could battle Eloy Casagrande" in the Class A Drummer book of giggles....

[~tamadrummer~]

Class A, I'm going to have to tell you off for this. The music that is being played there is plenty hard to play with consistency, crisp strokes, tight timing and good controlled articulation - all of which are there on that recording. I think I'll have to file this post alongside "I could battle Eloy Casagrande" in the Class A Drummer book of giggles....
I thought he was on your ignore list.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

On 100% agreement with Finn on the above comment. Sometimes you really should think before you post to be honest.

Wim, what can I say? Great playing. Obviously there's not much in terms of dynamics, but that's not expected. You're tight, precise and you have a wonderfully tight band there. Really impressive work. Crazy phrasing and just a great sound. Keep it up.

[finnhiggins]

I thought he was on your ignore list.

I took him off to see his attempts at playing Steve Gadd and forgot to put him back on afterwards...

[~tamadrummer~]

It's quite funny reading his posts sometimes...

[finnhiggins]

Wim, what can I say? Great playing. Obviously there's not much in terms of dynamics, but that's not expected. You're tight, precise and you have a wonderfully tight band there. Really impressive work. Crazy phrasing and just a great sound. Keep it up.

You'd be surprised how much of that DEP-type stuff has actually quite tricky dynamics. Have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRP3UqvIEIY&search=chris%20pennie

Watch how he breaks up even some of the very aggressive stuff towards the start with actually quite subtle accents on the cymbal, he's not just playing straight up and down. I'm certainly hearing a bit of that kind of control in what Wim's doing here, which certainly added to my enjoyment of what was going on.

On a second listen there's a couple of the quiter bits where the time doesn't quite sit as well as during the heavier sections, notably around the 1:20 mark or so with the hi-hat stuff. But I'm still totally impressed, welcome to the forum Wim - I'm absolutely looking forward to having you around after seeing your kit and hearing this...

[theduke86]

Nice job, man. I'm not a huge fan of the hardcore stuff but this is slammin'. Great work- like Finn said, I look forward to having you around, for sure.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I was very impressed with the groove around 1.10 on that video particularly, those are the sort of grooves I enjoy trying to play, but obviously not at that sort of intensity or skill level. I stand corrected. I can't have my speakers too loud because of the time but with an empty house tomorrow morning I'll give it a better listen. Wim, I too want to see more and hear more of you in the following weeks and months!

[Wim Coppers]

thanks a lot guys for the kind words and warm welcome.

yes finnhiggins, i know what you mean with the "01.20 part". but i suggest you listen to it for a couple of times, you'll notice that what's going on there, is fully intented. you can follow the time until that short break (just keep on following over the "weird bridge". after that short break i just play the same thing reversed... pretty hard to explain in another language on a forum, but i think you know what i mean? i did my best anyway!

i'll put another song online if you guys want to hear more.

take care you guys.

[finnhiggins]

yes finnhiggins, i know what you mean with the "01.20 part". but i suggest you listen to it for a couple of times, you'll notice that what's going on there, is fully intented. you can follow the time until that short break (just keep on following over the "weird bridge". after that short break i just play the same thing reversed... pretty hard to explain in another language on a forum, but i think you know what i mean? i did my best anyway!


I think I get you... but my problem isn't actually the part, I think you've just got the first one or two snare drums after the dynamic drop at 1:20 or so just fractionally late, or at least further behind the beat than everything else around there. Nothing measurable, but it just throws the groove a little out of pocket for a second which was kind of noticable. But seriously, this is just nitpicking...


i'll put another song online if you guys want to hear more.


Absolutely, I'm keen!

[~tamadrummer~]

Just listened...VERY good job. Excellent timing and great sound.

[Wim Coppers]

here you guys go, 2 more songs, take your pick.

Female Caucasian Delinquent (http://media.putfile.com/OJAHPCPCFD) is a slower 6 minute song, doomy stuff with samples as the cherry on the pie. (this is the last song on the album)

Deathwish Shooter Cocktail Recipe (http://media.putfile.com/OJAHPCPDWSC) is a hard and agressive song with A LOT of stuff going on.

hope you guys like it and thanks for the feedback!

[Class A Drummer]

Class A, I'm going to have to tell you off for this. The music that is being played there is plenty hard to play with consistency, crisp strokes, tight timing and good controlled articulation - all of which are there on that recording. I think I'll have to file this post alongside "I could battle Eloy Casagrande" in the Class A Drummer book of giggles....
Remember, i only listened to like 30 seconds of it (i dont really like that kind of death metal kind of genre stuff) if you read my post. And dont tell me you wudnt wanna battle eloy, i still stand by what i said, id love to do that, it wud be fun :D

[~tamadrummer~]

Remember, i only listened to like 30 seconds of it (i dont really like that kind of death metal kind of genre stuff) if you read my post. And dont tell me you wudnt wanna battle eloy, i still stand by what i said, id love to do that, it wud be fun :D
You'd lose. And that wasn't death metal.

[HardcoreLogo]

Freakin' crazy.........I love it!!! It's not as "out there" as i thought when I first read the other posts, which is a good thing.Alot of bands in this style go a little far over the edge(IMO) You guys have a good balance going on there, and the playing is tight as a ducks a%# ....water tight!!! Great work!

[Class A Drummer]

You'd lose. And that wasn't death metal.
what is it then? i cant think of anything else to call it. Thrash maybe?

[~tamadrummer~]

Thrash/Hardcore...Black Metal would be Cannibal Corpse and the like...haha give them a listen class a.

[YamahaDrummerAus]

/start rant.

Class A, grow up dude. I am only a year older than you, but I don't go bragging about how good I am. So mature and get your name out there before you go one saying that "Your better than Eloy" or "better than most of the pro drummers on this site (Endorsements? thread)."

So I can play some Avenged Sevenfold stuff (the Rev) but you don't see me bragging.

/end rant.

[HardcoreLogo]

Since everyone is sooooooooo hung up on lables, I'll call it "Black Death CrazyCore"..........LMAO.........also, Cannibal Corpse isn't really Black Metal, thats more of a Norway area kind of style, Cannibal Corpse are more of an old school American Death Metal, and there are so many more interesting bands to sight as examples of extream "heavy" metal........I dunno, I think good is good..........did that make sense(LOL)

[Symbolic]

No, cannible corpse are death meal. Emperor and Immortal are black metal.

[HardcoreLogo]

Black Metal gives me bad dreams(LOL).......what the hell is "death meal"..........just kidding with ya.........

[meandhimcallitus]

Nice playin. and Nice music. Not as techincal/chaotic/heavy as TDEP(but i dont know any band that is haha). But its still good stuff. You guys seem more Botch infulenced to me though which is def. a plus(one of my fav. bands). And the music sounds like something from "We are the Romans" cd

[Loading...]

That really wasn't that heavy, but it was very good Wim! The drumming was extremely solid, I was very impressed. After delving into thrash and metal a tiny bit and playing it live I realized the hardest part is not the speed, but fluidity. Which brings me to my next point: that music was very intelligent. The structure and small variations in the riff made it really interesting. At one point (correct me if i'm wrong, I only gave it one listen through) the drums mock the guitar riff for a measure or two and then the riff started on the off beat and you kept the pattern going. That stuff is crazy! You guys managed to stay in 4/4 for a lot of it but still make my head spin. One other thing I'd like to compliment you on is your transition to half time towards the end. Someone else mentioned the roll between the cymbals and snare, but the impressive part was you used that roll to create chaos and then proceeded to calm it with the half time (if that made sense). Really nice work, be proud of your drumming.

P.S. Check out Morgan Agren!

[NY_Recording_Freak]

haha, not heavy enough for me, but good stuff anyway, very Dillinger Escape Plan
my only complaint is that diminished feel is beaten to death, a bit to Dillinger and over use of that chord progression. But very tight playing overall

I would like to hear more tention insted of follow the leader, toss a little Meshuggah in there and its all good. There are never any moments where your not all matching so it gets a little repeditive. But thats just me.

Great playing very tight, I do like the band dont get me wrong but it doesnt stand out to me apart from DEP enough. Being from NY I need more beatdowns and a more technical aproch.
Great job and I would enjoy a live show

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

here you guys go, 2 more songs, take your pick.

Female Caucasian Delinquent (http://media.putfile.com/OJAHPCPCFD) is a slower 6 minute song, doomy stuff with samples as the cherry on the pie. (this is the last song on the album)

Deathwish Shooter Cocktail Recipe (http://media.putfile.com/OJAHPCPDWSC) is a hard and agressive song with A LOT of stuff going on.

hope you guys like it and thanks for the feedback!

This isn't even my scene and I'm finding it eminently fascinating listening to it. Caucasian Delinquent has a great feel and impressively good recording. I am always, always impressed by the sound of a good Sonor. I don't know what it is, Bernard Purdie when he was playing Sonor, Jojo Mayer, Nicko McBrain in the 80's, and now this kit. It's a stunningly good sound. Their lower lines for what they are sound just great too, right down the 505 when put back to back with the equivalents and even some kits higher up in the ranks of some other manufacturers.

The other song is absolutely mental. So tight, so energetic and a great use of tempo contrast. Really unsettling rhythmically in the best possible way. Wonderful drumming and a wonderfully tight band. You have a great groove as well as everything else.

And Class A, please stop digging yourself a deep, deep hole in the ground. The quicker you stop staying stupid things, the quicker people might just start to have an iota of respect for you. You're like the kid who's trying to dig through the World to get to Australia. Just stop it, it's painful to watch.

[jazzsnob]

Three comments, one to Wim, one to Class A, and one to everyone else.

In order:

1.Wim, really nice playing there man. It's not my style, but I can definitly appreciate the virtuosity and the creativity. It fact, it seems to be becoming my style because I like it more on second listen. Great job.

2. Class A, you need to think about what you post man. How would you feel if someone listened to a recording of you and said "um sry i rly cudnt listen to more than 30 secs of it because your technique is really bad and your teacher isn'ts good as you think he is". You'd probably flip out and wish they hadn't posted. Well, everyone in this thread wishes you hadn't posted, because you essentially said you didn't like the music, and THEN defended you're dislike of it by saying you didn't even care to really listen to it. COME ON BROTHER. Also, I would never want to battle Eloy because DRUMMING SHOULD NEVER BE ABOUT BATTLING. EVER. I would LOVE to jam and play drums with Eloy and maybe trade 8s with him, but why does it have to be battling? That competition is going to kill the art man.

3. Everyone else, sorry about the little idealist rant at the end of my last point. Regarding Class A, I think that everyone needs to remember that he is only 14 o(or 15) and that even though that shouldn't mean anything, I know that I was A LOT more lame when I was 14. There are some kids on this forum who are 14 and younger who are definitely wise beyond their years, but for the most part, I don't think any member of this forum would be hard-pressed to find a 14 year-old someone on the internet who is WAY more lame then Class A. So don't get too worked up when he says dumb things, because he'll learn when he starts losing friends. Also, run on sentences are fun.

[Wim Coppers]

hey you guys, first of all, thanks a lot! i'm happy to read positive feedback and people that are openminded to the music even if it isn't their style, that's what it's all about!

haha, some people told me "we weren't as out there as TDEP". of course we aren't, it's TDEP for god's sake! and i'm not defending my band, but there are a lot of bands out there trying to make their music as crazy, technical and unlistenable as they can (daughters, the number twelve looks like you,...). we don't. we still strive for some catchyness, we care a lot for melody and some "flows" in our songs AND we try to play some crazy phrasing at the same time.

if you would really like to label our music, i think you could label it as "math-core". it certainly isn't black/death metal that's for sure!

thanks again for those who LISTENED to the song(s), means a lot to me, take the best of care,

Wim

[wnameth]

Pretty cool man, Im not a huge fan of this stuff. Protest the Hero Is my limit. But you guitarist is great and your playing was perfect in every way on these tracks.

-Wes

[Breakaway Faction]

WOW you guys kick ass. I love it great drumming!

[meandhimcallitus]

i think you could label it as "match-core"?

did you mean "math-core"?

And I don't think bands like Daughters, TN12LLY, etc. strive to be unmelodic or unlistenable i think it just comes out that way. Even though there are probably bands out there that do it on purpose.

Other than that.... have you heard Daughters new stuff?? Its sick, and you should listen to it if you havent already


Stay Fresh,

Chris

[Wim Coppers]

hey Chris,

haha man, yes... i mean math-core, my bad.

nope, i didn't hear the new Daughters stuff yet. i saw them over here (Belgium, Europe) about a year ago, and that show was really baaaad. haven't checked any of their records out ever since. but okay, i'll take your word for it and see if i can check it out somewhere.

take care!

[meandhimcallitus]

http://www.myspace.com/daughters1 - to hear the new daughters song (since the cd hasnt come out yet), the song is called "Fiery" no screaming which makes them stand out once again from the "grindcore" genre.

Oh, and on that lighter song, did you guys put COPs samples over it? if you guys did thats hella tight, a simple yet clever way to make the music stand out.

[funked_up]

Then why comment on it?

I'll give it a listen later tonite, when I won't disturb sleeping family members...

Because he wanted to speak his thoughts. I thought that was obvious.

[Wim Coppers]

http://www.myspace.com/daughters1 - to hear the new daughters song (since the cd hasnt come out yet), the song is called "Fiery" no screaming which makes them stand out once again from the "grindcore" genre.

Oh, and on that lighter song, did you guys put COPs samples over it? if you guys did thats hella tight, a simple yet clever way to make the music stand out.

yep, it's a mix of a lot of COP's samples. you are the first one to notice it! we have a 5th guy in the band that's only in charge of samples and electronics, like you said, it helps to make the music stand out.

[AtreyuInMyBlood]

Sweet ass band you got man. Awesome drumming, and set you got. I would love to buy and CDs if you have some.

[Wim Coppers]

AtreyuInMyBlood, i've sent you a mail.

i'm working on the song "panasonic youth" by dillinger. i'm gonna record it and try to get it on the forum one of these days. that's gonna be one hell of a party!

[meandhimcallitus]

Hey Wim,
Do you have the tabs for that song or sheet music (perferred)?
If so pls feel free to send me a copy via email
haha
it will be greatly appreciated since i can only find "Cleoptras Sling" and i already learned that song years ago.

Stay Fresh,

Chris

[Wim Coppers]

well yeah, i do. i wrote it down for myself, piece by piece. but i'm afraid that will not help you a lot because i have "my own" way of writing drum tabs. but since i have it anyway, i'll try to make it understandable and send it over. (might take me a couple of days)

feel free to send me the tab/sheet of Cleoptras Sling, i would appreciate that!

take care!

[DrumProgressive]

Wow, i didn't have time to read the whole thread as you gets so much comments, and you should. I really like the stuff going on with your band Wim. I like the recordings aswell. Now i'll continue in dutch =)

Nog is mijn complimenten op de muziek. Ge had iets gezegd van ooit te hebbe opgetrede me DEP. Als g enog zoiets ga doen in belgie laat me dan iets weten, dan kom ik zeker is kijke. Echt geweldig om nog een belg zo'n zalige muziek te hore maken.

EDIT: ik ben vergete vrage waar ge die liekes opgenomen hebt en wa het gekost heeft.

[Wim Coppers]

thanks DrumProgressive! i'll say my stuff in dutch as well:

bedankt man! we spelen dit jaar op pukkelpop, ik weet nog niet zeker welke dag, maar check onze site regelmatig daar staan alle data op en zodra we het weten zwieren we het daarop.

Memorial is opgenomen in de art-sound studio in Houthalen (limburg). mix & mastering (en zang-opnames, samples,...) hebben we in de Electric City in Brussel gedaan. bekend van within temptation, hooverphonic, arno enz. Dan Lacksman (Telex) heeft zelfs mee wat noise gemaakt met moogs op enkele tracks, van een samenwerking gesproken.

hoeveel het hele opname-proces exact gekost heeft? hmmm, laat me zeggen dat het rond de 5000 euro zal zitten (waarvan slechts 2 dagen drum-opname).

kom gerust eens hallo zeggen als je toevallig op pukkelpop bent dit jaar, altijd fijn om nieuwe drummers te leren kennen!

hou je haaks!

[Danny]

YES.

I enjoyed the music very much. Absolutely spectacular drumming, and your band is very very good. I could see myself buying your cd!

How long does it take for you guys to get a song down? Do you actually have music written out so you can see where you are doing this specific fill or this specifc part of the song? It's very complicated (and good)!

[Wim Coppers]

hey Danny.

all songs are written by our guitar player and me. we allways start with a pretty basic riff and modify it untill it's what we want it to be. he delivers the melody, i deliver the strange hooks & rythms. we don't restrain ourselfs to verse-chorus-verse-chorus song-writing and really nothing is too crazy: for one song we recorded some stuff and learned how to play it the other way around. if our bassplayer learns the songs he has got some ideas of his own that we sometimes use.

it takes us about 2-3 months to actually FINISH a song and yes, we do write it down, but it's not online anywhere. it's pretty hard to learn all this stuff without writing it down. there are a trillion tabs on the floor in our rehearsal room.

thanks and take the best of care!

[timebandit]

Wim, I really dig your music. the drums are tight. very well executed. your guitar player is awsome, very creative. although that sound has been done , many times before, you guys are by far the best I've ever heard. ( its not my thing so, i don't know many other bands) but I bid you well, because I'm sure you guys have a good future in the music biz- if you don't already. It's a simple formula..good musicians.... good sound...good music ...good job! well done!!

[wondering]

The more you post Class A, the more i think you re a fool.

About your playing wim Coppers, just let me congratulate you. Very consistent playing, you re very precis with the tempo, in french we would say it sounds square. I don t know if i can say that in english but i hope you understood what I mean. Good dynamics, at such fast tempos, you must be totally sure of what you will play, improvising is much more difficult to stay so good in the tempo. ( I know what I m talking about, I will be covering Iron maiden the trooper next weekend in front of at least 1000 people ). I m used to improvise in breaks, but there isn t that easy to do.

Well done, I like your playing but not my favourite kind of music!

[secondXheartbeat]

i freaking loved caucasian

Ambient music like that gets me, and it reminded me of "Hearts Alive" by Mastodon. Your singer kind of sounds like Troy Sanders too, awesome stuff. Send me info if you have a cd I can order!

[Wim Coppers]

thanks a bunch! hearts alive, that one major compliment man.

i've send you an email with more info on how to order a cd.

take the best of care.

[Pantera Buds]

God damn I loved it! I'm a big metal fan and this sounds great, as does your drumming. I'd buy an album! (dont hold me to it)

[jangus]

Definitely reminds me of Botch. Real nice playing. Thats some hard stuff.

[Wim Coppers]

a picture of our show last weekend:

http://www.funevent.be/photography/images/ojbig.jpg

take care and keep on hitting those drums!

[Ian Ballard]

Pretty awesome stuff.

As for "too hard for most of you" ... that's a little arrogant.

[Wim Coppers]

probably "too hard" for most of you, but aah well, what the heck!


for some people our music just IS "too hard" because there is screaming and no singing + loud guitars, it's a simple fact. believe me, i've heard it a thousand times before.

but anyway, thank you Ian Ballard for NOT telling me it's too hard for you!

take the care !

[Ian Ballard]

Honestly, it would take me some time to be able to do that stuff, since I shattered my ankle a year ago and frankly I'm not the double bass drummer I once was as a result.

I really respect your ability to play the way you do and you seem to have a better grasp of solid timekeeping amidst the relative rhythmic insanity. Some drummers who play in that style (Jordison), tend to speed up and slow down in a very uncomfortable way. Your groove is far more solid and your band is equally tight. This kind of music definately is a positive evolution in music in that, metal and Frank Zappa already existed, but combining wacked-out meters and tempo changes with metal and doing it well... is a good thing. I always wanted to do that but in a more or less jazzy format.

I'm sure for a good portion of cats here, it would be a struggle both physically and mentally to do that stuff. I just think it goes without saying, hence my statment.

Keep rockin'!!!

[adcuz]

Excellent, i would buy the CD

[Jusstickinaround]

Ever heard the saying, "There are only two kinds of music, good and bad"? Well, sorry, but that falls in the latter. Nothing musical I could hear, I couldn't make heads or tails of it, and don't get me started on the screaming.

[jmontroy]

Ever heard the saying, "There are only two kinds of music, good and bad"? Well, sorry, but that falls in the latter. Nothing musical I could hear, I couldn't make heads or tails of it, and don't get me started on the screaming.

Shut up. Open your mind a little bit and if you don't having anything good to say, don't say anything at all. I used to hate metal because I was like you. Now I realize it's one of the most diverse and interesting genres of any. Just takes a little patience. In the mean time, don't speak, because you clearly know nothing about metal and wouldn't try to grow to like it.

(Sorry to the rest of DW, I'm just sick of people slandering metal for poor reasons)

Good playing man, I could definitely hear the DEP thing going on. All around great playing, no complaints. And although it wasn't grossly heavy at all, good call on the warning, for people like jusstickinaround.

[Ian Ballard]

Ever heard the saying, "There are only two kinds of music, good and bad"? Well, sorry, but that falls in the latter. Nothing musical I could hear, I couldn't make heads or tails of it, and don't get me started on the screaming.

While you are entitled to your opinion, the phrase you mentioned is asinine. Basically it tells me you live in a black and white world.

[Wim Coppers]

Jusstickinaround, maybe one day you will find out there is a lot more music you can learn to appreciate (and i'm not talking about my band here). I used to be the opposite of you, i was pretty close-minded and listened to "hard music" and nothing else for years. You should check out my record collection now, only 30% is hard music. Thank god i expanded my horizon.

I'm saying this because there are bands out there with AMAZING drummers (and other musicians) that are worth checking out, but they might play a genre you don't like. I'm sure you can learn something from some of them.

Anyway, thanks for proving my point about the "too hard for some of you" thing. It was about time!

[The_Chaotic_One]

No, cannible corpse are death meal. Emperor and Immortal are black metal.

Thankyou, you saved me the effort hahaha!

[Jusstickinaround]

I'm saying this because there are bands out there with AMAZING drummers (and other musicians) that are worth checking out, but they might play a genre you don't like. I'm sure you can learn something from some of them.

In my opinion that was not musical playing, no melody, not even a groove. I know there are many metal drummers who can play fast and loud with many chops, so what, the music is awful and the drumming can't help it. I really don't like drummers who play technical without playing melodic. There so much more to drums than just bashing away,and seeing how many notes you can cram in. I do listen to many types of music, from rock to jazz, to classical, even a lot of ethnic music, but there are two types of music I cannot tolerate, metal and country. Although country probably has more melody, I cannot stand the country twangy vocals. Metal is probably worse, sorry, if you like it fine, I don't, to each his own. By the way, I believe it was Count Basie or one of those guys from that era who said there were two types of music, good and bad, I diidn't just make that up, I'm not that witty.

[jmontroy]

I'm saying this because there are bands out there with AMAZING drummers (and other musicians) that are worth checking out, but they might play a genre you don't like. I'm sure you can learn something from some of them.

In my opinion that was not musical playing, no melody, not even a groove. I know there are many metal drummers who can play fast and loud with many chops, so what, the music is awful and the drumming can't help it. I really don't like drummers who play technical without playing melodic. There so much more to drums than just bashing away,and seeing how many notes you can cram in. I do listen to many types of music, from rock to jazz, to classical, even a lot of ethnic music, but there are two types of music I cannot tolerate, metal and country. Although country probably has more melody, I cannot stand the country twangy vocals. Metal is probably worse, sorry, if you like it fine, I don't, to each his own. By the way, I believe it was Count Basie or one of those guys from that era who said there were two types of music, good and bad, I diidn't just make that up, I'm not that witty.

Although I still disagree, express yourself like this first. Think about what you say before you post it, like...will this offend people? That way, less headaches for all.

I'll accept this, but with a question. How much "metal" have you heard? Stuff you've heard on the radio? This is the root of most problems metal oriented.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Wow, that was fast, explosive and kinda caught me off guard making it all confusing at first before I picked it up after a little bit. Nnice playing and I like the music too.

[wnameth]

a picture of our show last weekend:

http://www.funevent.be/photography/images/ojbig.jpg

take care and keep on hitting those drums!
Sick picture! you guys are playing for a huge crowd. my band plays the casbah in hamilton ontario. i will post pics this saturday after the show.
BTW i love the horns.

-Wes

[Wim Coppers]

Jusstickinaround, the thing is, we're not even playing metal, neither is my drumming about cramming in as much notes as i can. au contraire, there are a lot "empty" pieces in some songs because i want to let another instrument/vocals stand out. if you don't hear the melody/dynamics in those songs, i think you might have to give it another go, and look for it in a "non-conventinal way". but i know you'll save yourself the time listening to something else, and that's fine. like you said, to each his own, i totally respect that.

take the best of care y'all, and don't forget:

DYNAMICS !

[registering is a pain]

Hey man, that was cool. I didn't really like metal but after reading these posts and listening to your drumming, I can see how some people could like it. I have heard about 15seconds Dillinger Escape Plan in my life - the beginning of Panasonic Youth. You guys are pretty good. But I don't understand if by "is anyone up for harder stuff?" you mean hard as in difficult to play or hard as to loud, driving music?

[Wim Coppers]

the second kind of loud that is.

[shortman1984]

awesome playing man.....keep it up...i love that style of music....and people dont understand the difficulty in that style...i love it...

[Jusstickinaround]

Jusstickinaround, the thing is, we're not even playing metal, neither is my drumming about cramming in as much notes as i can. au contraire, there are a lot "empty" pieces in some songs because i want to let another instrument/vocals stand out. if you don't hear the melody/dynamics in those songs, i think you might have to give it another go, and look for it in a "non-conventinal way". but i know you'll save yourself the time listening to something else, and that's fine. like you said, to each his own, i totally respect that.

take the best of care y'all, and don't forget:

DYNAMICS !
Wim Coppers, went back and listened again just to give it another shot......I'm sorry, but it made me laugh, your screamer, er..singer sounds like he took vocal lessons from Animal,(I'll bet he finds a compliment in there somewhere). I'm not trying to start an argument, it's just what I thought of. I really tried to find something melodic in the songs, but it just sounded like a bunch of notes put together with no real thought of what it might sound like. Don't get me wrong, your drumming doesn't sound bad, but the vocals seemed to drown them out a bit. It's certainly not dance music, and you can't sing to it, or hum it while at work. I've heard this kind of stuff before, and to me it's only real purpose is to get kids wired and piss off there parents. In 15 years most of those kids will outgrow that music and the bands playing that type will fall like the metal bands of the eighties, playing anywhere that will have them. I don't see it lasting like more mainstream bands. Someday you'll be older and you'll be lucky if you can still hear, I know just playing in rock bands most of my adult life I've lost some hearing, so take care of your ears, I hope you wear plugs or even better in ear monitors, that's what I do now. If you enjoy what you're doing that's all that really matters, and my opinion doesn't mean diddly.

[shortman1984]

Wim Coppers, went back and listened again just to give it another shot......I'm sorry, but it made me laugh, your screamer, er..singer sounds like he took vocal lessons from Animal,(I'll bet he finds a compliment in there somewhere). I'm not trying to start an argument, it's just what I thought of. I really tried to find something melodic in the songs, but it just sounded like a bunch of notes put together with no real thought of what it might sound like. Don't get me wrong, your drumming doesn't sound bad, but the vocals seemed to drown them out a bit. It's certainly not dance music, and you can't sing to it, or hum it while at work. I've heard this kind of stuff before, and to me it's only real purpose is to get kids wired and piss off there parents. In 15 years most of those kids will outgrow that music and the bands playing that type will fall like the metal bands of the eighties, playing anywhere that will have them. I don't see it lasting like more mainstream bands. Someday you'll be older and you'll be lucky if you can still hear, I know just playing in rock bands most of my adult life I've lost some hearing, so take care of your ears, I hope you wear plugs or even better in ear monitors, that's what I do now. If you enjoy what you're doing that's all that really matters, and my opinion doesn't mean diddly.

you must be an old man or something..my dad also thinks metal is a bunch of noise..people dont understand how complicated metal can be..especially for a drummer. I know you have to be in shape..do you know that the drummer for slipknot runs like 2 or 3 miles everyday just so he can keep in shape to do the double bass.....he may run more a day..thats just what i heard....so playing drums for a metal band is not so much easy work...it will wear you out fast....

[Drum-Head]

Great stuff you guys have put toghether there. You've successed in creating some cool music, and moreover you've got the great attitude to go with it (dealing with bachers in this thead.) I'd buy your band's album if I had the occasion to do so.


Keep Rockin',
Christopher.

P.S. The pic is awesome!

[Jusstickinaround]

you must be an old man or something..my dad also thinks metal is a bunch of noise..people dont understand how complicated metal can be..especially for a drummer. I know you have to be in shape..do you know that the drummer for slipknot runs like 2 or 3 miles everyday just so he can keep in shape to do the double bass.....he may run more a day..thats just what i heard....so playing drums for a metal band is not so much easy work...it will wear you out fast....
I didn't realize drumming is an Olympic sport. Look, I know playing the drums is very physical, I've been doing it for years, but just because you can run a marathon doesn't make you a great drummer. There's a lot more to it, if the guy from Slipknot can play with a good touch and make the drums sing at a lower volume I like to hear it. I don't want to argue about how good someone is or how fast he might be, the point is, to me drumming is more about feel than power, I've seen videos of these metal drummers, and I'll tell you I saw more stamina from a Louie Bellson video when he was 64 years old than any of these guys posess. I know a guy who plays in a death metal band and all he cares about is how loud his drums are, so you see I'm not that old, I just have different taste than yours.Be cool.

[Ian Ballard]

I didn't realize drumming is an Olympic sport. Look, I know playing the drums is very physical, I've been doing it for years, but just because you can run a marathon doesn't make you a great drummer. There's a lot more to it, if the guy from Slipknot can play with a good touch and make the drums sing at a lower volume I like to hear it. I don't want to argue about how good someone is or how fast he might be, the point is, to me drumming is more about feel than power, I've seen videos of these metal drummers, and I'll tell you I saw more stamina from a Louie Bellson video when he was 64 years old than any of these guys posess. I know a guy who plays in a death metal band and all he cares about is how loud his drums are, so you see I'm not that old, I just have different taste than yours.Be cool.

Okay, so you don't like metal. Give up your attempt to prove your opinion. Some people share it and others don't. However most people with class, will avoid threads and topics involving music they don't like... the rest just want to wave their interweb genitals around and lure others into an argument. Nobody cares to hear you continue to expand on why you don't like heavy music and especially nobody cares to hear UBER-obvious mantras like "drumming is about feel, not power/speed/volume" or whatever.

As much as l love Louie Bellson and every double-bass drummer in the world should bow down and owe him gratitude, even he would not admit to being able to play that stuff, whether he likes it or not. Football players from the 50's could not run as fast or hit as hard as the guys of today do... Buddy Rich with all his speed, in his prime, could not play Dave Lombardo's parts in Slayer... and yet Buddy actually liked hard rock and roll.

Wow, imagine that... a great drummer with an open mind.

[Jusstickinaround]

Buddy Rich with all his speed, in his prime, could not play Dave Lombardo's parts in Slayer... and yet Buddy actually liked hard rock and roll.

Wow, imagine that... a great drummer with an open mind.[/QUOTE]
Now I know you're a dreamer, it's not if Buddy could play Slayer, it's if Lombardo could play anything Buddy played, no freaking way! I've seen Lombardo, I've seen Buddy, there's no comparison. Buddy could outplay most drummers when he was in his sixties, a great drummer can still play if he stays in condition as they get older. Buddy thought most rock drummers were a joke, as did most great jazz players. As far as Louie goes I'm talking about a solo I have of his, and as far as playing metal, I'm sure if he or any great drummer wanted to learn a metal song or any rock song they could play it, I don't think the same holds true for a metal drummer trying to swing a big band. Don't get me wrong I'm a rocker, but I know where the greatest drummers come from, and that's jazz, rock drummers don't have the same feel and technique for there instrument. There are a lot of good rock, metal drummers, but they can't play like the jazz greats, anyway, that's what I think, be cool. .

[Ian Ballard]

And again the same oversimplified and overgeneralized opinions that make you look like a fool.

Different styles of music yeild different styles of playing. This is not rocket science. You seem to think that if a drummer can play jazz really well... by default they can play anything really well. But a drummer that plays metal (in a recording for which you have no idea if the guy is capable of other styles) cannot play jazz very well. That's a big load of bullcrap.

The only reason I made the Lombardo/Rich comparison is because ... they aren't comparable and that is my logical conclusion about your entire argument. You seem to think that "jazz greats" automatically can outplay any metal drummer by virtue of the fact that they play jazz.

Nice. You've got some slick debating skills.

[Cephalic]

So far, I'm still listening to the first song you posted, but it's very good!
Great playing, and a good sounding band. I'll download the rest then and post some more comments if I come up with anything.

[Jusstickinaround]

[QUOTE=Ian Ballard]And again the same oversimplified and overgeneralized opinions that make you look like a fool.

Now, now, watch the name calling, no need for that. Coming from a rock drummer like myself, I know I would have a more difficult time playing a big band song than trying to play a metal song. I can listen to metal music and pretty much figure out what the drummer is doing, and make a pretty good attempt at playing it. Big band or fusion type jazz is much more difficult to grasp, I figure one reason people choose rock is because for the most part it's simplier than jazz. I'm sure everyone has seen the Burning for Buddy video, where all these drummeres play Buddy's tunes. Well I saw Neil Pert, Matt Sorum, Kenny Arnoff and Rod Morgestein do pretty fair jobs covering the songs they chose, then I saw Steve Smith, Dave Weckle, Marvin Smitty Smith, and Joe Morello play there songs. What a difference, these guys except for maybe Morello, have done the rock thing with no problem, and really showed the forementioned fellows the meaning of the word taste. When you watch them play you can tell the jazz guys have better technique and a better feel, watch the left hand of a jazz guy compared to a rock guy, there's no comparison. Be cool.

[meandhimcallitus]

Wim Coppers, went back and listened again just to give it another shot......I'm sorry, but it made me laugh, your screamer, er..singer sounds like he took vocal lessons from Animal,(I'll bet he finds a compliment in there somewhere). I'm not trying to start an argument, it's just what I thought of. I really tried to find something melodic in the songs, but it just sounded like a bunch of notes put together with no real thought of what it might sound like. Don't get me wrong, your drumming doesn't sound bad, but the vocals seemed to drown them out a bit. It's certainly not dance music, and you can't sing to it, or hum it while at work. I've heard this kind of stuff before, and to me it's only real purpose is to get kids wired and piss off there parents. In 15 years most of those kids will outgrow that music and the bands playing that type will fall like the metal bands of the eighties, playing anywhere that will have them. I don't see it lasting like more mainstream bands. Someday you'll be older and you'll be lucky if you can still hear, I know just playing in rock bands most of my adult life I've lost some hearing, so take care of your ears, I hope you wear plugs or even better in ear monitors, that's what I do now. If you enjoy what you're doing that's all that really matters, and my opinion doesn't mean diddly.

Wow that was pretty pointless... and so is my post
100% is not ture
Listin to TDEP and Botch

[d.c.drummer]

Metal guys dont get alot of respect beccause people think is all thrashing about and most drummers suck at it. You deserve alot of respect for being one of the better metal drummers I've heard on this website. Awesome timing, great chops. I hate metal but i love your playing.

[Jusstickinaround]

Metal guys dont get alot of respect beccause people think is all thrashing about and most drummers suck at it. You deserve alot of respect for being one of the better metal drummers I've heard on this website. Awesome timing, great chops. I hate metal but i love your playing.
Wow, saying I hate metal, but I love your drumming is a bit contradictory. How can you love a style of drumming without loving the music it's in? One of the reasons I don't like the drumming is because of the music it supports, it all goes together, you can't have one without the other. I don't get it, if you don't like something just say it, it's like saying I hate Beethoven, but I love the way you play the violin to music I hate. Holy moly.

[meandhimcallitus]

Wow, saying I hate metal, but I love your drumming is a bit contradictory. How can you love a style of drumming without loving the music it's in? One of the reasons I don't like the drumming is because of the music it supports, it all goes together, you can't have one without the other. I don't get it, if you don't like something just say it, it's like saying I hate Beethoven, but I love the way you play the violin to music I hate. Holy moly.

Just to disprove what you said...

Josh Freese, I like his approach to pop songs/ his playing to pop songs... really
doesn't want to make me buy the Kelly Clarkson/Avril Lavigne/Good Charlotte cd he played on... I still liked his playing on them nonetheless.

This goes for a lot of drummers too

[MSUMetal]

Well, I've only listened to one song, which was the slower "female caucasion delinquent" one, but it was pretty sweet. I like it a lot. I'll now listen to your harder songs, but keep in mind, it takes me many tries to get use to heavy stuff (usually), but after that I'm hooked.

Okay, listened to your Thieves song, and that was sweet. I really liked it instrumentally, especially teh rolls a bit past half way. Not much of a fan of the singer though...oh well, overall great (I'm not much of a DEP fan either though, I'm more of a metalcore type of guy, still, sweet stuff).

[Wim Coppers]

thanks a lot guys, i really appreciate it!

say juststickinaround, imagine you are going to a restaurant and somebody puts a plate with spaghetti in front of you. isn't it possible to say: "i hate spaghetti, but i love this tomatto-sauce?" now this is just a example, but music-wise, there are a lot of bands/artists that i don't like, but i still like some of the musicians in it. i really don't think this is too hard to understand and it's certainly not contradictory.

oh, and what's up with all this "i'm a rock drummer" and "i'm a jazz drummer" stuff? i don't consider myself a rock drummer at all. every free minute i have, i'm playing jazz and starting this year i'm going to study jazz at one of the best jazz-schools in europe (if i get in that is).

anyways, keep it up you guys!

take care.

[Nergretty]

Hey!

Great playing.

Take care

Nerg

[wondering]

oh wim I didn't notice you were coming from belgium !

[Wim Coppers]

hey there Wondering,

yes, i'm from one of the smallest towns on the planet in the flemish part of belgium. where are you from?

take care.

[Mapex589]

First off, congrats on a great recording! I only listened to "Theives" but I thought it was killer. I thought it sounded more Mastodon than DEP which in my opinion is a good thing. Better vocals than DEP too. Keep up the good work and good luck!!

[Jusstickinaround]

thanks a lot guys, i really appreciate it!



oh, and what's up with all this "i'm a rock drummer" and "i'm a jazz drummer" stuff? i don't consider myself a rock drummer at all. every free minute i have, i'm playing jazz and starting this year i'm going to study jazz at one of the best jazz-schools in europe (if i get in that is).

anyways, keep it up you guys!

take care.
That's great, but if you're such a jazz fan why do you play metal? Let me guess, so you can be versatile, and be a jack of all trades. I think that's good, you should be versatile, more power to ya. I'm the same, I love listening and playing different types of music, but metal is not one of them. Take care, and remember to wear those ear plugs.

[Latin Groover]

Well i just thought i'd come back and check this thread out, to find that i never actually commented, mm swear i did. Anyway i when i found this thread i downloaded thieves and i loved it. I never downloaded the others, but i did listen to them. AWESOME PLAYING!!! Some/alot of the stuff you where doing was great and your band is very tight, how long have you been together? It's a good quality recording, you do the designers justice.;-) I'd also love to hear some of your jazz stuff.

edit - Writing this post it came back to me i have posted in this thread bofore, i was on the first few posts. Anyway awesome playing, oh and how can i download the other 3 songs to my computer cause at the moment you can only listen to them through putfile.

[Wim Coppers]

hey latin groover, thanks man! we've been playing together since 1999 but only started doing shows around 2002-2003. from the moment i have some jazz-related stuff recorded, i'll post it here. i'm working on another project now, but it's without drums, without melody, it's just about "sounds" basicly. (www.myspace.com/abrahamsoundmanipulator) check it out if you want to.

i have no clue how to fix that putfile-stuff so you can download all songs? anybody?

take care y'all!

[Wim Coppers]

we will play our very last show somewhere in december...

what a bummer!

[meandhimcallitus]

That sucks... it was one of the few bands/music I would actually listin too regurly that has been posted on these forums.
Good Luck in the future and do you have any sideprojects?

[Latin Groover]

Yea bummer man i listen to your songs very regulary. Have to post up a long vid of the final show! ;-)

[Wim Coppers]

we're planning on taping the whole last show and i'll try to get that stuff online. we will continue with this band minus the sample/synth man & singer. so only 1 drummer, 1 guitar player and 1 bass player. we'll do the (few) vocals ourselves.

thanks for caring guys, i'll keep you up to date with the new band (and other projects).

take care!

[Synthetik]

Sounds excellent! You and sonor bring the power on these cuts! Great job!

I am cranking it up right now. If I had any hair, it would be blowing back!

[Wim Coppers]

the last show was great, we couldn't ask for more.

some sketchy live footage:

01. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHiWK9PEil8
02. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHGzsy74h58
03. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2vdzp6Gzqo
04. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4azT7iFrvJE
05. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNgbtiOHEFw
06. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN1Ki0-lwPE
07. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jvanKxjKmU
08. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1In_HhlZ60
09. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0HMPJl-ZwM

(number 9 is a cover: Botch - saint matthews returns to the womb)

more pictures and better footage might be underway.

take care y'all!

[Latin Groover]

Well its not Arabic, Italian, French, defintly not manderin, japenese, german or English, its also not spainish, Korean, Portuguese or russian...and googles all out of ideas. What do people in Belgium speak?

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

You guys are very tight and very professional sounding. I think you guys will do quite well. I'd like to pick up the album myself. Very dynamic and I really love the different parts you came up with. Inspiring.

[Wim Coppers]

Well its not Arabic, Italian, French, defintly not manderin, japenese, german or English, its also not spainish, Korean, Portuguese or russian...and googles all out of ideas. What do people in Belgium speak?

haha Latin Groover, Belgians speak Belgian! (which is almost the same as Dutch). and thanks SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ, the only problem is, since 23-12-06 we don't excist as a band anymore. our album is still available in the states though. and if you really can't find, send me a message/mail, we'll work something out.

take care y'all!

[Shinx]

Hey man, sorry to hear about your band, I saw the bullitens on myspace. You guys were great, good luck for the future

[meandhimcallitus]

Sweet... am excitied to hear the Botch cover, ill check out the rest when I get home tommrow.

[Wim Coppers]

sweet,

do you play in any band man? so far your taste in music was pretty nice. btw, we spoke about daughters earlier in this topic, we've played 5 shows with them over here in europe, they are cool guys, we've had fun.

take care!

[meandhimcallitus]

Thanks, I try to be as open as possible when it comes to music.
As for the, Am I in a band,... no, unless jammin with friends counts..?hah
Happy New Year
CHris

[ahector]

Great drumming.

Remember guys, don't feed the trolls.