Freddie Gruber - GURU

[NUTHA JASON]

what qualities does someone have to have to be the teacher, yes the teacher of people like buddy rich and niel peart as well as a list of literally the top thirty drummers in the world? look at this man's page on drummers world and be blown away by who he's tutored. this guy must win the prize for being the absolute and ultimate DRUMMING GURU.
any thoughts?
j
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Freddie_Gruber.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drum26/freddiegrubernamm04.jpg

[MaxRoach]

can someone PLEAASEEEEE find me a video of this guy playing drumset.....i wanna see :( i can't find any

[Raymond Bloom]

this guy must win the prize for being the absolute and ultimate DRUMMING GURU.

Yes, Freddie is just outstanding...
really, an
ULTIMATE DRUM GURU
All my respect to his incredible work, I would love to have a lesson from him, hey, well, at least standing in one room with him would be awsome :))
He is on the top of the list of my ''must see'' drummers list, I hope I will see him someday

[Bernhard]

Ok so:

Want to take a short lesson with the teacher of Buddy Rich - Dave Weckl - Greg Bissonette - Danny Gottlieb - Peter Erskine - Anton Fig - Neil Peart - Steve Smith - Adam Nussbaum - Kenny Aronoff - Richie Garcia - Clayton Cameron - Rod Morgenstein - Jim Keltner - John Guerin???!!!!

Here's a new video - just for the members of Drummerworld Forum...

But you will see no drumming - just explaining - enjoy:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/Freddie_Gruber.html

Bernhard

[DogBreath]

Terrific! That clip was like watching a martial arts master explain a kata.

(but I silll want to see him drum!)

[NUTHA JASON]

i get the impression that freddy's strength as a drum teacher is not so much in what he could teach us in a DVD - and i'm sure he could teach loads - but rather in his one to one analysis of a drummer's approach. i think he is at his best watching you drum and then telling you how you could get even better. a real teacher for pros.

j

[JohnMunsey]

Did Freddie teach Buddy Rich? How about did Henry Adler teach Buddy?

[JohnMunsey]

Didnt Chapin teach Gruber the Moeller Technique?

[Clark]

Gruber did not teach Buddy.

[NUTHA JASON]

he did actually. look at his DW site.


j

[Scatman]

In the Buddy Rich book Traps they say Freddie was a close friend of Buddy's

[Clark]

If anyone taught the other, it was Gruber watching Buddy....maybe Gruber told Buddy something about notation, NOT about technique. Might explain the "consultant" thing.

[JohnMunsey]

I think Chapin taught Gruber the moeller methods.

[jdc999]

As far as Henry Adler is concerned, I asked him recently and he told me never taught Buddy how to play. He gave him some lessons on reading music, but that was it.

[Funkydew]

I watched the clip of Gruber's clinic, hoping to see him play even one stroke, but he just teases you. He talks as if he is talking to children, which, combined with the extremely vague explanations, makes for a very irritating session. If you watch any of the technique masters, like Morello of chapin, they just can't stop playing, and their exuberance is just overflowing. But this guy shows us nothing.

I hugely prefer Dom Famularo's approach: cheerful, straight forward, and full of playing examples. Granted, In three short "cyber lessons" Dom explains the grips. If Gruber taught some of the masters of today, I bow my head in deferrence, his genious just does not show on this video. FD

[Bernhard]

I watched the clip of Gruber's clinic, hoping to see him play even one stroke, but he just teases you. He talks as if he is talking to children, which, combined with the extremely vague explanations, makes for a very irritating session. If you watch any of the technique masters, like Morello of chapin, they just can't stop playing, and their exuberance is just overflowing. But this guy shows us nothing.

I hugely prefer Dom Famularo's approach: cheerful, straight forward, and full of playing examples. Granted, In three short "cyber lessons" Dom explains the grips. If Gruber taught some of the masters of today, I bow my head in deferrence, his genious just does not show on this video. FD

Well, there are many teachers but Freddie seems to be different. He's a coach for pros, not a teacher...he starts, where the teachers end. Dave Weckl changed his playing 180 degrees. He take a look at a drummer and give some advice. Seems to work with worldclass drummers

Bernhard

[Thinshells]

Freddie taught Steve Smith, and turned him from a superb drummer, to a master. Neil Peart was amazed at the improvement and asked Steve: "What's your secret?"

Steve said "Freddie"

And Neil went on to learn the mechanics that happen before the drum pedal or stick hits the drum. Oribital technicques and many other things to refine his style.

[JohnMunsey]

I watched the clip and didnt understand what he meant.

I agree. Dom is very clear and respectful.

Why wouldn't someone like Peart go to Morello or Chapin is beyond me.

[finnhiggins]

I watched the clip and didnt understand what he meant.

I agree. Dom is very clear and respectful.

Why wouldn't someone like Peart go to Morello or Chapin is beyond me.

Maybe because Gruber offers a way to analyse and implement improvements in their own playing styles rather than teaching from a particular school? Gruber also seems to be more kit-focused than, say, Chapin who talks a lot more about technique as a very isolated, pad focused thing on everything I've seen.

I have nothing against either of them, but I think I get was Gruber was hitting at in that clip. I will write more about it in the morning, have to sleep now and then take my car to the mechanic when I get up.

[DrumNut]

Does Freddie have any books out? Videos?

[Scatman]

I saw this guy on the Weckl video and don't have a clue what the man is talking about

[DrumNut]

You are not alone, don't know if he can convey the education to all drummers well

[ual747-400]

Dude you guys need to pay more attention. He is explaining that the proper height that you hold your stick at. When your arms are relaxed then you bring your arm up where your forearm is parallel to the ground basically. This is your natural posistion so you do not have your arms in an unnatural position which causes increased strain and fatigue. I am not sure why freddy explained that because Dave said the same thing right before.

[DrumNut]

What did Freddie teach Buddy Rich? Who often did Buddy go for lessons with Freddie?

Just curious - did Freddie ever play clinics or play in a band?

How much does he charge for lessons?

[burnthehero]

It seems to me like Freddie teaches at a much higher level than other educators. Many of the drummers that have come to him for advice already have an extensive knowledge of technique, so he probably doesn't teach the basics very often. That could be why it's hard for some people to understand what he's talking about.

[jordanz]

I was lucky enough to study with Freddie as a teenager. Freddie was close to the family of my best friend from high school.

Freddie is not, himself, a great drummer. He hung out with a lot of great drummers (foremost Buddy Rich) and figured out how to communicate technique to other drummers. The things I learned from Freddie at a young age have served me very well throughout my life. I'm really grateful I had that opportunity.

[Steviepap]

As far as Henry Adler is concerned, I asked him recently and he told me never taught Buddy how to play. He gave him some lessons on reading music, but that was it.


I studied with Henry Adler for 3 years and I agree. Henry always said he watched Buddy and developed his hand technique based on that. He gave him some reading lessons, but Henry always described Buddy as a natural.

By the way, it's been years since I've seen Henry. Sounds like you've spoken with him. How is he doing? He was such a nice gentleman when I studied with him.

[Stu_Strib]

Completely unrelated to Freddie;

What are those rims on that DW called? I saw those at a store recently on a collector's kit. I must have them!

DW website doesn't mention them anywhere.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Ok so:

Want to take a short lesson with the teacher of Buddy Rich
http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/Freddie_Gruber.html

Bernhard

That first one really gets me. According to Joe Morello (whom I studied with for 18 months) Freddy was Buddy's gofer/assistant not a peer of his. When I mentioned that Freddy's site on DW states that he taught Buddy, he almost exploded.

Does anyone here honestly think that Freddy Gruber actually TAUGHT Buddy Rich??!!

That is pure revisionist history.

Freddy is a great teacher/coach obviously, but the Buddy Rich thing is a total fabrication.

Here it is in black and white: ANYONE WHO SAYS THEY TAUGHT BUDDY IS LYING!!!!

That is right from Joe Morello's mouth.

What Freddy did is observe Buddy and learn about how the hands and body move. There are many drummers (among them Joe Morello my past teacher and Dom Famularo my current teacher) who feel that Freddy went too far in promoting the Buddy connection. Freddy learned from Buddy not the other way around. That is why guys like me and Dr. Power Stroke (another Famularo student) bristle at the mention of his name and his supposed "developments" like the middle finger fulcrum. Jim Chapin has been teaching that stuff for years. Just check out his video.

[Bernhard]

Knevildrummer - I see no problem at all - everythings ok and everybodys happy...
It's normal for living legends to make some legends with other legends. If teaching or only correcting, fact is, that Buddy himself stated, that Freddie helped him a lot....and he didn't mean carrying drums...

How is Joe going? Did you take a lesson just these days or last month. I'm still waiting of some feedback from Joe regarding some website-linking, give him greetings please...

Bernhard

[Jeff Almeyda]

Knevildrummer - I see no problem at all - everythings ok and everybodys happy...
It's normal for living legends to make some legends with other legends. If teaching or only correcting, fact is, that Buddy himself stated, that Freddie helped him a lot....and he didn't mean carrying drums...

How is Joe going? Did you take a lesson just these days or last month. I'm still waiting of some feedback from Joe regarding some website-linking, give him greetings please...
Bernhard

Joe is doing well the last I saw him. (last September). He is just the sweetest guy and I have the utmost respect for him. He also has the MOST relaxed hands you will ever see on a drummer. Maybe that's why I get so worked up about Gruber. I feel that he is getting the attention that Joe deserves.

I intend on seeing him within a month or so. I will tell him you said Hi

[JohnMunsey]

I heard he was a gopher to Buddy also. Why would Buddy study with a non-drummer. I dont doubt that Gruber could have said something philosophical to him about something deep, so gave a certain perspective - but that can happen to anyone from anyone - to then call them a formal teacher is a huge stretch.

[JohnMunsey]

To think Gruber gets more attention than Morello is like saying Gary Hogeboom gets more attention than Roger Staubauch just cause he was on "Survivor" or whatever show it was.

I think he got "some" attention because Neil Peart for some reason studied with him. I like Neil better before he switched grip. He's a rock player, and I think it calls for bigger muscle = matched grip

[blazingtorso]

no area of study is without its cons. when he talks i feel like he's trying to sell me an aging tonic in some town squares gazeebo.

[jordanz]

I heard he was a gopher to Buddy also.
That's pretty rude. I knew Freddie when I was a kid. He and Buddy were friends.

[jordanz]

no area of study is without its cons
He's not a con. I'm living proof. Freddie was a great help to me when I was a teenager. The technique I learned from him has served me well for 30 years.

[NUTHA JASON]

Having just reread this whole thread it strikes me that the people who believe that freddy didn't teach buddy anything are saying this out of unbacked opinion and almost hope...no way, buddy was all buddy. but the people who are disagreeing are presenting factual evidence. jordanz knew him...bernhard said:
It's normal for living legends to make some legends with other legends. If teaching or only correcting, fact is, that Buddy himself stated, that Freddie helped him a lot....and he didn't mean carrying drums...

i think gruber's strength, the reason the top guys go to him, is in his ability to watch and see where there can be improvement. he's an analytical teacher not an instructional teacher. think about it. when you get as good as say, weckl, its got to be hard to find the places, particular in fine technique, that can be improved. freddy knows what to watch for.

j

[Bernhard]

Nutha - thanks for the support. Just what I meant, exactly.

And also this:

After one session with Freddie Gruber Dave Weckl changed his whole approach to drumming: The grip, the positions of the drums, the sticks, the movements. Just everything back to the beginnings. And this was - imagine - only four years ago!!!!

Bernhard

And this:
Just last PASIC: The whole Gadd crew standing there for picture shoot. Then Steve Gadd shouted: Hey come on Freddie, you must be in the picture......living Legends!!

[jordanz]

One of the problems with Freddie is that he's a pretty eccentric person. I haven't seen him for, like, 20 years. But, back then, he could be pretty out there. I wonder if this has something to do with some of the backlash against him.

[Crazy]

Yeah Nutha you got it right.....for drummers say like Weckl who have surely explored the whole set of rudiments and their alternatives, you need a guy who gets more conceptual and focuses on ergonomical and scientifical way of explaining the drums in order to optimize your playing

[NUTHA JASON]

exactly...like football...the best coaches are not always going to be ex-top players but rather very good and experienced players who are adept at watching a game or player and seeing the monor flaws that can be worked on and the strengths that can be worked with.
when i consider my collection of drumming DVDs almost all of them are by pro, talented, amazing drummers but asides from being interesting and inspirational the amount of actual learning i can glean from any of the DVDs is small...why? because for the most part these guys are not teachers. like football, you can watch an international match and be wowed by the skills of the players but then go out in the yard and you can barely do anything that you saw...but if you were talked through the method of say making a ball curve after you kick it, step by step with smaller exercises to cover aspects within the skill...and best of all taught by a coach who is watching you and guiding you back on track then you will soon be able to put a ball in the goal mouth from the corner. freddy is like one of those coaches.

j

[shagnscoob]

if anyone who actually studied with Freddie would like to help me out, I'd like to interview one of his students.

private message me if your down.

thanks

[Liquid_Drummer]

I've met Mr. Gruber at the Dw booth winter Namm 99 I think it was. This guy is a damn trip and reminds me of a hyper active teenager. Fiesty bastard ! I dont think he cares what anyone thinks about him in the least. It was a non smoking facility and he was chain smoking right in the DW booth ! I saw him tap around a bit but he didnt play much. He was being very playfulll behind the kit kinda of "dancing in the air" or mimicking playing without hiting the heads".The guy seemed a million miles away. I asked him about teaching Neil Peart and he said. "Poor guy. Such a great fella. He really didnt deserve what happened to him." or something like that and that was it. He lit a cig and took off mumbling to himself. Kinda weird guy with his manerisms, huge shades and funny walk but I think his heart is in the right place. Jim Chapin was there too. Didnt talk to him though. Just watched as he explained the moeller stuff to a group of people and proceded to do a single stroke roll at about a zillion bpm hardly moving his arms. I was told that I had just missed Mith Mitchell !!! Damnit !

[geek_boy_in]

its unbelievable how some people are slandering an already proven guy by calling him con, vague, tease etc........ guys do you really think Weckl, Smith, Peart are fools to go by simply washy abstract talks ..??? .......
He featured in Weckl's video and unlike what one poster said he completely made sense. Look at the way he analysed the technique v/s what Weckl did with drums a few mins ago ....... i found Gruber to be much more convincing and rational. Gruber tells the reasons while Weckl told an opinion. Even if both are truths there is a difference.

when you cannot understand or don't know the person atleast give him the benifit of doubt based on other's opinion.

[icebone]

Freddy Gruber did not teach Buddy Rich. Just trying to clear a rumor to the contrary.

[TitanSound]

Ermm..thank you for telling us this?

[Bernhard]

this is no news and so inappropriate that also the opposite is wrong....lol

see some threads...

B.

[44Ronin]

Freddy Gruber did not teach Buddy Rich. Just trying to clear a rumor to the contrary.

Yes he did. Instruction = Teaching.

http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drum26/FreddieGruber5.jpg

Rumour? No. It is a FACT. I love how everyone tries to make buddy superhuman.

[icebone]

Freddy taught Murray Spivak as well didn't he, Probably Louie Bellson too.

[NUTHA JASON]

is that sarcasm? anyhow it may be true. i' decided to merge threads so you can have a read.

j

[44Ronin]

I just want to say that Freddie is a complete legend. Anyone who tries to put him down misses the point completely.

[WarrenM]

I thought seeing people run down Neil Peart in other threads was the height of ignorance but now Gruber too?! Wow.

[abe]

Well, I saw Weckl's video, and it was hard to understand what Mr. Gruber told BUT it was probably because of my english as second language.

My humble opinion is that Weckl is using now more relaxed and natural aproach to many things like doubles or fulcrum point for left hand. I'm not familiar with Pert case. Buddy was a genius but there is quiet many legends about him out there. He told that he never practiced but I've read (can't make quotation) he had even special pads in his touring bus! Buddy said that Gruber helped him so at least that's true.
If I would have a chance I would take one lesson with Mr. Gruber. I'm sure there is something about him if Buddy was so positive about him as well as Weckl and Pert.

I'm sure Grubers existence and friendship with Buddy doesn't have an impact on Morellos or Chapins popularity that much.

[abe]

Today I noticed that Jojo credits Gruber in his new DVD...