ButtKicker

[Dimm_Slayer]

I saw this on musicians friend and i dont understand what the hell it does for you anyone own it or at least know what it is?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Buttkicker-Gamer?sku=482260

[Garvin]

I was wondering the same thing. I think it is essentially like one of those vibrating video game controllers. It seems like it vibrates when you hit your bass drum, so you feel it more. Probably instead of turning up your bass drum in the monitor. At least I think that's what it does, and have heard of similar things. I guess it would be nice to have if you want to actually feel your bass drum vibrating your.... hind quarters? Hmm... Sounds pretty gimmicky, but I too would like to hear from someone who has actually used one.

[Colonel Bat Guano]

It's definitely one of the stranger drum products to come along (anyone remember square drumsticks?). And, sorry for this, but I can't help thinking that there may a secondary market for it as some kind of a sex toy...

[Guinness]

I want one. I can see how this would enhance the live experience to new heights. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has crappy monitor mixes. This sucker will put all the lows thru you. Bass guitar as well as drums. Anything with a low enough frequency. I play better hwen I can actually feel what I'm doing and imagine being able to lock in with your bass player like that. Sounds like a good product. I'll probably be buying one soon.

[T.Underhill]

I had an idea for something like this but it could double as a click track thumper. I don't know how keen people would be on a beat up their butt, but I'd try to sell it!

[groovemaster_flex]

maybe its one of those video games that u connect to ur electronic drumkit and to ur tv... like u have to play a certain groove to pass a level or something? that wud be pretty cool, i wud get it =)

[bermuda]

I've been using the ButtKicker for a few years on the road, and it's fantastic. They make the thumpers for the IMAX theaters, so they're heavy duty. Bone Shakers and the like aren't even in the same league.

More info at www.thebuttkicker.com

Bermuda

[tentpole]

Lester Estelle (he's in the band Pillar) uses it.His comment was"this is my butt kicker and it basically kicks your butt."

[toxegendrummer]

They were made for really big gigs (ie Stadiums, Festivals) where it was hard to hear your bass...so replace sound with feel

[rmedek]

I second Mr. Schwartz on this one. The ButtKicker, er, kicks ass.

If you've ever played a larger gig where you got a huge subwoofer to supplement your monitor wedges, you'll have probably noticed that you really feel your kick when you lay into it, as well as hear it. It really helps to lock into a solid groove.

With in-ear monitors, the individual monitor mix is usually fantastic, and the levels are controlled, but it's very easy to miss the subwoofer "air" you would normally get. That's where the ButtKicker (or Bone Shaker, or whatever) comes in — it vibrates the throne to simulate the feel of using big, fun subwoofer monitors.

The only way I can describe it is, after playing with plain in-ear monitoring, it's like playing in 3D again. :) It is sort of a pain to set up and use if you're not on a higher-level tour with a tech, though.

[Deathmetalconga]

Sounds like cheating to me.

[rmedek]

Why? (twenty characters :)

[bermuda]

It's not cheating, it's a tool to help improve the mix and feel of the kit, and to improve playing.

The mix is all-important. Think about it this way: if you couln't hear or feel the kit, could you still play? Would you know what you sounded like to the audience? Would you have any sense of dynamics? Would you know if you were getting enough rim on the snare?

Granted, that's the extreme. But exponentially, suppose one element of your kit just wasn't there as much as you'd like it to be. The kick, for example. And no realistic amount of speakers could give you the feel, the thump that you want in order to play your best. A solution would be necessary.

Well, that's what several people have been working on for decades, and bolt-on transducers have been in development for about 15 years. Most of them were suitable for clubwork and little more. But for large venues, the little 50-watt 'shakers' just don't cut it. I've searched for thump for years - including having a "thumper seat" made:

http://www.bermudaschwartz.com/images/dwthrone.jpg

- and none of it comes close to the ButtKicker:

http://www.bermudaschwartz.com/images/bk1.jpg


Bermuda

[rmedek]

Bermuda, can you share just how the signal chain works on this? Does a signal come from the monitor mix into a crossover? Or does it run independently, via triggering? The times I used it (actually, I believe it was the Aura version) I had a dedicated monitor mixer running it, and I'm pretty sure he was using a custom patch I couldn't duplicate in the smaller venues I'm playing; I am sure he didn't use triggers on this, however.

[hotsauce3n]

I second Mr. Schwartz on this one. The ButtKicker, er, kicks ass.

If you've ever played a larger gig where you got a huge subwoofer to supplement your monitor wedges, you'll have probably noticed that you really feel your kick when you lay into it, as well as hear it. It really helps to lock into a solid groove.

With in-ear monitors, the individual monitor mix is usually fantastic, and the levels are controlled, but it's very easy to miss the subwoofer "air" you would normally get. That's where the ButtKicker (or Bone Shaker, or whatever) comes in — it vibrates the throne to simulate the feel of using big, fun subwoofer monitors.

The only way I can describe it is, after playing with plain in-ear monitoring, it's like playing in 3D again. :) It is sort of a pain to set up and use if you're not on a higher-level tour with a tech, though.


i dont understand why you would need this unless your being severly drowned out. i can see how it can inhance the groove of your bass, but it just seems unneccessary. maybe i am misunderstanding the point....

[MECHT4NK]

i dont understand why you would need this unless your being severly drowned out. i can see how it can inhance the groove of your bass, but it just seems unneccessary. maybe i am misunderstanding the point....
it also adds to the low frequenties you're missing when using in-ear monitors.

[rmedek]

i dont understand why you would need this unless your being severly drowned out. i can see how it can inhance the groove of your bass, but it just seems unneccessary. maybe i am misunderstanding the point....

A few reasons:

You're playing a medium/large venue with regular wedge monitors. The sound levels might be loud enough, and you might be able to hear everything well, but in larger venues it's very easy for the sound of your kick drum to be projected out rather than heard (or felt) from your position behind the drums. The rump shaker helps to recreate a little "thump," making it easier to feel comfortable with just where your attack lies.

You're playing with in-ear monitors. Even in smaller venues, I'll play with in-ears from time to time; usually I am playing to a click track or at least using a click to get song tempos, or I'm playing to a sequence or loop of some kind. Playing with in-ears is great sound-wise, but it can seem very isolated and sterile compared to the tactile sensation of playing with wedges. The rump shaker helps add the feeling of "air" you would get from playing with large monitors.

[bermuda]

Bermuda, can you share just how the signal chain works on this? Does a signal come from the monitor mix into a crossover? Or does it run independently, via triggering?

It's driven by an amp (I use a Crown K2) which is fed a line signal. I basically take a send from my kick channel and run it to a crossover (Ashly XR1001) then to the amp. The ButtKicker response is 200hz and below, so the crossover helps focus it. I've also gated the kick so no stray hits or sounds can make it rumble - it's pure kick.

Although my old thumper seat was pretty nice, it wasn't very efficient, was extremely bulky and heavy, and I used to fry the speakers on a regular basis. We kept 2 fully equipped thrones and a spare speaker on hand. Plus I didn't really like the round seat, but lived with it because it was a better alternative to monitors. The ButtKicker weighs less, lets me use the seat I want, takes up less space to transport, and is infinitely more efficient than a speaker up the butt. In fact, I can't even turn the amp all the way up, it's more than I need, and I demand a lot!

Seriously, it's one of the best moves forward I've made in years.

Bermuda

[Deathmetalconga]

Why? (twenty characters :)

It's an inside joke. I've posted a lot on The Duallist thread, where people berate The Duallist as "cheating." That whole attitude really is silly. If something helps you play better, including this butt kicker, then do it.

Personally, if the stage volumes are so loud that you need this, I think you could be putting your hearing at risk. Howzabout just asking the bandmates to turn down anbd/or adjust their monitor positions?

[bermuda]

Personally, if the stage volumes are so loud that you need this, I think you could be putting your hearing at risk. Howzabout just asking the bandmates to turn down anbd/or adjust their monitor positions?

It's not strictly about volume, it's about balance... the mix. The better we can hear what we're playing, the better we can play. I've done plenty of club dates where the overall volume was only moderate, but I still would have liked to hear/feel my kick more prominently to get a better sense of my playing. While the ButtKicker may be overkill for clubs, it's crucial in larger venues where the overall volume is louder, and where overcoming hall ambience in the mix is crucial to hearing what I need in order to play. It's not strictly volume... it's balance.

Bermuda

[groovemaster_flex]

ooo, i get it, i thot it was one of those games... like guitar hero or dance dance revolution =) wow, i feel like an idiot.

[rmedek]

It's driven by an amp (I use a Crown K2) which is fed a line signal. I basically take a send from my kick channel and run it to a crossover (Ashly XR1001) then to the amp. The ButtKicker response is 200hz and below, so the crossover helps focus it. I've also gated the kick

That's what I was afraid of... a lot of work! :) It would be wonderful to have a system that was a little more self-contained; maybe a built-in mixer that filtered for the bass and fed it to the amp automatically. It'd certainly help for the smaller gigs where in-ears are still necessary. Thanks for the info!

[bermuda]

That's what I was afraid of... a lot of work! :) It would be wonderful to have a system that was a little more self-contained; maybe a built-in mixer that filtered for the bass and fed it to the amp automatically. It'd certainly help for the smaller gigs where in-ears are still necessary. Thanks for the info!

You could skip the crossover, but you still need an amp and a feed from the mic, regardless what thumper is employed. The simplest route is to take a kick send from the mixer, into an amp and into the thumper. With the thumper attached to the seat, that basically results in only one extra piece of gear laying around: the amp.

Simpler still is to have the monitor person feed enough kick to your mix... but if that really worked, there wouldn't be a need for an auxiliary system in the first place!

Bermuda

[T.Underhill]

One of their models is listed for 60 bucks on MF. I may want to try it.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Buttkicker-Gamer?sku=482260

[brennenlesser]

I think it was just a lame idea. FEEL the bass. idk.

[brennenlesser]

Lester Estelle (he's in the band Pillar) uses it.His comment was"this is my butt kicker and it basically kicks your butt."

lester is sick..omg...one of my favs

[coreymachine]

I noticed that someone listed a $60 version of this product available through MF. Does anybody know if that specific model is quality?? I am definitely purchasing a product like this, I'm just curious specifically about that model. Thoughts??