Drum Workshop Worth The Cash?

[The Executioner]

We have all overpayed for everything that we have purchased as opposed to the cost of actually manufacturing the items. I am not bashing DW i think they are tremendous drums. My brother plays DW I play on an Orion kit. We both use identical remo heads even down to the 5 AB sticks. His Dw's dont sound any better than my Mapex in my opinion and he even admitted that to me. He stated that he realizes he payed for the name but really wanted a set of DW'S. If anyone plays DW'S and feels differently i want opinions from both sides. I cant see the thousands of dollars in price difference being justified. They do have a neat marketing scheme with their cute certificates with the sonic matching and wood harvesting techniques blah blah blah. But I cant see where they are all that better than a Starclassic, Absolute, Orion, or Reference series. What are your opinions are they really worth the extra cash? or are Dw's customers paying for the name badge and marketing schemes?

[Signals]

IMHO: Company A's North American Maple isn't going to sound any different than Company B's North American Maple. However, there will be a slight difference in sound based upon the obvious -- plies, thickness, heads, tuning, etc.

With regard to higher-end kits, I believe you're really paying for the 'extras' -- finish quality, attention to detail, and yes, even the name. After all, they have to pay for that endorsement roster some how! I would suggest just comparing their 'features' to other kits in that price range -- you may find that you can get the same features/quality for a much lower price.

Moreover, I believe the Collector's Series are made in the USA, so DW's labor costs may be higher. Moreover, they may have to adhere to higher State/Federal standards vs. their Asian competitiors.

In the end, DW's are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them. There are many great drummers on their roster, so they must be doing something right.

[DdubBdrum]

I have played identical size 24x18 bass drums, both Mapex Orion, and DW. With tunings basically the same, the DW sounded far better than the Orion. The tone was more full, had a deeper boom that really filled the room with the nice attack sound at the batter head. The Mapex just didn't have the same low thump that fills your ears. I don't know what it is exactly, but DW drums IMO, sound better than Orions if tuned to their full potential. Single ply batter heads really bring out the resonance and the rich tone in the DW bass drums. However, on the other hand I do think that you pay quite a bit for the name. In DW's defense, they had to get their fabulous reputation somewhere, right? They had to build that name that people now pay extra for. I'm not sure though if it's worth $1,000 extra.

Whichever you pick in the end I suppose that it's your personal preference, and your price range, that dictate which to get, and tunings, heads, etc that make the drums sound the way that they do. Good, or bad. As you all know, the most expensive DW can sound worse than a beat-to-crap beginner brand if it's tuned badly.

[Drummerguydrew]

I paid for my slightly used dw's what i would have paid for a brand new maple kit from another company and i really havnt heard anything that sounds better. Also, if you look at pearls or tamas top line maple sets, its really not thousands of dollars more. I would have paid more even if i hadnt found such a great deal because they are better drums. plus i love the lug design...

[Bernhard]

As you perhabs didn't know yet: Producing round lugs is a very complicated process. Only some people from the inner circle of the Swiss mountains are knowing the secret (the same who make the holes in Emmentaler Cheese). So if you count all round lugs on a complete DW-Set and multiplie with 100$ each: you get the idea.

So all drumsets coming from the coast are much cheaper and have very bad sound.

Bernhard

[harryconway]

DW rose up from the ashes of Camco. For a while, they were not even making their own drum shells. They were using Keller shells (great shells). So certainly the round lug and the infamous DW chain drive pedals have lineage that trace directly back to Camco design. So also with shell design. A very thin shell with re-inforcement rings. Worth the money? If you like the drums, yes.

[Fat Elvis]

i agree with harry. basically it all comes down to personal preference. Many will say their drums sound just as good.... even some will say their drums sound better. For some -- including me -- its sort of like this:

I drive a porsche. I always wanted one, i have dreamed about it since i was a kid. I am lucky enough to own one. Many people share this dream. Now suburu makes a fast ass car -- it can beat my car. It has well over 300 hp and all wheel drive. It is also less than 1/2 the price of my car new. Apples to apples, you can say that the suburu is better -- its faster, grips the road better, etc.

No kid is going to sleep dreaming of owning a suburu.

There is something to be said for the porsche name, its quality, its mystery and its exclusivity. Its got a great design, great performance, a great name - no matter what suburu produces, it will never approach it. Many would agree the same can be said for DW.

food for thought. By the way, i also play a DW. :)

[Bigfoot]

Porsche and a DW Set!
You're my New hero man.

Seriously though i think the Company have done some Cool things (like the "Edge" Snare)
Apperantly they offer Timber-Matching Drumkits which involves matching the shells so that you get the best Sound possible out of the kit.
They have a lot of good drummers on their Roster but so do Pearl, Tama, Sonor, Yamaha & Mapex.
Me personally i prefer Tama hardware. I play a Premier kit at the moment but i say my next shells will probably be a Pearl probably Birch unless this Refernce series is as good as it's supposed to be.

[Rhythmic Disciple]

DW have worked very hard to develop a reputation which places them at the pinnacle of the drumming ladder in the vast majority of drummers minds (whether we like it or not!).

They have done that by (a) producing high quality products (b) being innovative and (c) using clever marketing. Generally, nobody can really argue about the quality of their products.

So, IMO DW are there to be shot at, and it's no surprise to see people continually comparing their products to those produced by other companies. It's my belief that we are subconsciously admitting that DW are the standard by which all companies are trying to adhere (which probably isn't true!).

Whether they are worth the money or not - I thought so! Though everything depends on several variables such as what deal you've been able to obtain, which country you're buying them in, and many others...

[Togg]

A lot of what we are talking of here is basically 'fashion' currently DW is in fashion as was Ludwig in the 60's-70's, there is no doubt in my mind that they make wonderful kits that deserve the price tag, however as to the question of whether a DW kit is really better I think there is very little to choose from between the top of the line kits from all the major companies.

DW's matching process is well worth a special note here, I think it's an interesting twist that they have picked up from the cymbal manufactures.

As they say 'God is in the detail' and when you look closely at a DW kit it is indeed a fine musical instrument.

Living in the UK I suspect I have to pay top dollar as it were for my chosen brands, Ludwig and Zildjian, and the prices compare to DW's at the top end I'd say, I would love a DW as my second kit, but I will probably always stick with Ludwig and my main. Why because I grew up in a time when Ludwig was king!

In twenty years time when another new kid on the block comes along, all the DW players will probably be saying the same about their tried and trusted kits that they worked so hard to buy.

Fashion my friends it's a wonderful thing when combined with marketing!

[Drums558]

I think Fat Elvis nailed it with his Porche, Screwburrew analagy.
I have a DW 25th aniversary kit and a Tama performer. I can't compare the 2 because one is maple and the other is birch, but I can say I love both kit's. The DW's were very expensive because of the limited production of the 25th aniversary kit and I have yet to see one just like mine, plus it was made for me! My DW's are special to me and i'm glad i bought them, but I could have bought 2 Tama Starclassic Maple's or Pearl, or Yamaha kit's for the price I paid.
My current lust is for Tama Bubbinga's or Pearl reference, but I have yet to hear either kit. If you want a kit like any of these, including DW, you pay the price you have to pay to get them, then smile a big smile every time you get to take em out and show em off.
Mike

[pdp 9091]

So all drumsets coming from the coast are much cheaper and have very bad sound.

Bernhard


tentpole would know that

[aceman]

I think cosmetics have alot to do with the price of DW drums. You name it, they can or will paint it for you. Of course, your going to pay for it. They do have top notch craftmanship on their kits but no more than pearl, Yamaha etc.. Round lugs? funky paint? who are you buying the kit for? your wife? I don't even notice what color my drums are or what my lugs look like when I'm behind my kit and in my own little world. Tune up some Rydeems, give me some sticks and get out of the way!

[Henry II]

Overpriced! Overrated!

[Fat Elvis]

Overpriced! Overrated!

you know i get this exact same comment about my car from suburu owners. hmmmm....

you know, with all due respect (and that this point, very little is due) you always chirp on about how over-rated they are, yet you so rarely support your argument. Your "absolute" obsession with yamaha is only exceeded by your "absolute" hatred for DW. Many people find value in these drums. They are well made, well finished, use incredible materials. Since you play the suburu of the drum world, i guess we can all understand why you would hate the porsche of the drum world.

[aceman]

I think the point thats being made is that why drive a porsche to work when a good reliable nissan will get you there.

[michaeldangelo]

I think personal preference reigns supreme.

In terms of sound: it is all about the player. One person can make a kit sound completely different than another person, not to mention style. I have an $800 Pearl Export Radical kit down at North Texas and we have every variety of drum there. Sonor, DW, Yamaha, Gretsch, Pearl, Mapex, even custom kits from Keller shells.

I must admit, I believe my kit sounds just as good, if not better, than some of the other guys down there. I've noticed that some people who have $4000 drum kits that sound like crap to be honest. I believe it is all about the player. Pure and simple. The rest is just preference. You might like round lugs, or artisan finishes, or 18" bass drum lift kits, or free floating shells, but it's really about how the drummer plays them.

[Auger]

Mike has a great point there. Let's not forget the drumER!

Also, drum sizes, head selection, and tuning will have 100x more impact on the sound of a drumset than the brand or composition of the shells or hardware.

Another thing to consider is that a drumset only sounds as good as the room it's in. It's kind of the nature of the beast with drumsets -the drumset itself is only half of the instrument in terms of acoustic sound. The other half is the room the drumset is in.

[jollymosher]

Yeah ide say so. but alot of drums out there are 1000s less and sound just as good. Really take a look around. you can make a pro m sound BEAST and a Dw make an annoying wap. it is all the player and the players tuning

[The Executioner]

I have played identical size 24x18 bass drums, both Mapex Orion, and DW. With tunings basically the same, the DW sounded far better than the Orion. The tone was more full, had a deeper boom that really filled the room with the nice attack sound at the batter head. The Mapex just didn't have the same low thump that fills your ears. I don't know what it is exactly, but DW drums IMO, sound better than Orions if tuned to their full potential. Single ply batter heads really bring out the resonance and the rich tone in the DW bass drums. However, on the other hand I do think that you pay quite a bit for the name. In DW's defense, they had to get their fabulous reputation somewhere, right? They had to build that name that people now pay extra for. I'm not sure though if it's worth $1,000 extra.

Whichever you pick in the end I suppose that it's your personal preference, and your price range, that dictate which to get, and tunings, heads, etc that make the drums sound the way that they do. Good, or bad. As you all know, the most expensive DW can sound worse than a beat-to-crap beginner brand if it's tuned badly.
I cant say that i agree with that because a lot of things come into play (ex. acoustics) of the room that you played these kits no way the Dws sounded Far better than the orions. We tested these kits in a contolled enviroment to draw these conclusions I have to ask did you do the same please be honest.

[Skitch]

We have all overpayed for everything that we have purchased as opposed to the cost of actually manufacturing the items.

Cost associated with drums and everything we consumer isn't just in the manufacturing. It is also in the protection of those ideas, the marketing of the product and research and development to produce a better product in the future. Innovation requires reward; otherwise why bother?


But I cant see where they are all that better than a Starclassic, Absolute, Orion, or Reference series. What are your opinions are they really worth the extra cash? or are Dw's customers paying for the name badge and marketing schemes?

I wouldn't even think of putting Tama's cheap products in the same class. Tama cares about two things:planned obsolescence and getting more of your money WHEN their gear breaks (usually at the most inopportune time). I have had repair more than my fair share of Tama (The Strongest Name in Drums- ha) Titan stands because of the use of pot metal in a load bearing fitting. Furthermore, when I have had to call Hoshino (Tama's US counterpart), I got alot of attitude such as "How did you get this number? It is a carefully guarded secret! Leave us alone". Funny, when you see an ad for Tama, you never see an address, excpet for where to get one of their catalogs. DW on the other hand.......

To get to my main point: DW drums are worth the money. When you are comparing the top of the line drums from all manufacturers, you really aren't talking about that much more. Also, if you are complaining about paying way to much, I can guarantee you that you are being soaked by the Japanese (otherwise known as Tiawanese) drum makers. The labor costs don't even compare with what DW pays. I have a set of Tama Granstars and they sound great and I have kept them. But quality-wise, they don't stack-up. I sometimes refer to Don Lombardi as the Howard Hughes of the Drum manufacturers because we wouldn't have the high quality (across the board from every manufacturer) without Don and John both uping the ante. They took drum building to a totally higher level!! We would still be paying for "this drum goes with that set because it is black." Timbre-matching (a now patented process) was brought into the mainstream by DW. This isn't just some marketing gimmick.

One of the problems with the argument you throw down is that DW has become what the Yamaha Recording series once was; the standard. When I thought about buying another drumkit, one of the things which I weighed heavily was what I had read in a recording engineering magazine about the DW drums being the best recording drums ever made. This wasn't some drummer's ego and checkbook talking. It was someone outside of the drumming world. And sometimes it is those opinions we need to listen to the most

I haven't had the opportunity to check out the other series you have mentioned...and i feel that I have run my mouth way too much here.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Fat Elvis]

Cost associated with drums and everything we consumer isn't just in the manufacturing. It is also in the protection of those ideas, the marketing of the product and research and development to produce a better product in the future. Innovation requires reward; otherwise why bother?



I wouldn't even think of putting Tama's cheap products in the same class. Tama cares about two things:planned obsolescence and getting more of your money WHEN their gear breaks (usually at the most inopportune time). I have had repair more than my fair share of Tama (The Strongest Name in Drums- ha) Titan stands because of the use of pot metal in a load bearing fitting. Furthermore, when I have had to call Hoshino (Tama's US counterpart), I got alot of attitude such as "How did you get this number? It is a carefully guarded secret! Leave us alone". Funny, when you see an ad for Tama, you never see an address, excpet for where to get one of their catalogs. DW on the other hand.......

To get to my main point: DW drums are worth the money. When you are comparing the top of the line drums from all manufacturers, you really aren't talking about that much more. Also, if you are complaining about paying way to much, I can guarantee you that you are being soaked by the Japanese (otherwise known as Tiawanese) drum makers. The labor costs don't even compare with what DW pays. I have a set of Tama Granstars and they sound great and I have kept them. But quality-wise, they don't stack-up. I sometimes refer to Don Lombardi as the Howard Hughes of the Drum manufacturers because we wouldn't have the high quality (across the board from every manufacturer) without Don and John both uping the ante. They took drum building to a totally higher level!! We would still be paying for "this drum goes with that set because it is black." Timbre-matching (a now patented process) was brought into the mainstream by DW. This isn't just some marketing gimmick.

One of the problems with the argument you throw down is that DW has become what the Yamaha Recording series once was; the standard. When I thought about buying another drumkit, one of the things which I weighed heavily was what I had read in a recording engineering magazine about the DW drums being the best recording drums ever made. This wasn't some drummer's ego and checkbook talking. It was someone outside of the drumming world. And sometimes it is those opinions we need to listen to the most

I haven't had the opportunity to check out the other series you have mentioned...and i feel that I have run my mouth way too much here.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dwsnare.com
http://www.timemachinetheband.net

very well said, sir. Very well said indeed.

[Fat Elvis]

I think the point thats being made is that why drive a porsche to work when a good reliable nissan will get you there.

why eat a steak when a few slices of bread and a vitamin suppliment will keep you alive?

[Dave from Perth]

Phew! The manufacturers must be rubbing their hands together with delight at all the passion you guys have for their products.

The matter of who does what "best" is problematic, while the idea of "value" is relative. Both these ideas have been explored by some forum members above (and they've done it better than I could), so I won't repeat their informed views.

I will say, though, that in my 15 odd years of playing I have used Yamaha Maple and Recording Customs. They were both very good. I enjoyed playing both kits and never had any trouble with either. Their hardware was also of a very high quality and always reliable.

I currently play a dw collectors series kit (maple) and use dw hardware. I made the shift because I wanted something different. My playing tastes and interests had changed with time.

I haven't played the Yammies and the dw in the same room at the same time under test conditions, but I know what I "feel" when I play, and at this moment in time I can say that for my current playing situation and my current musical tastes and interests, the dw is the kit for me. For this reason alone, they're worth the money, or at least I thought so...Last week I had a good play on a Brady. (And so the story goes...)

Oh, I have a 911 too, and I agree with the views expressed above on the 911 argument.

[aceman]

why eat a steak when a few slices of bread and a vitamin suppliment will keep you alive?


Now your coming around Fat Elvis. My thoughts exactly!

[Henry II]

you know i get this exact same comment about my car from suburu owners. hmmmm....

you know, with all due respect (and that this point, very little is due) you always chirp on about how over-rated they are, yet you so rarely support your argument. Your "absolute" obsession with yamaha is only exceeded by your "absolute" hatred for DW. Many people find value in these drums. They are well made, well finished, use incredible materials. Since you play the suburu of the drum world, i guess we can all understand why you would hate the porsche of the drum world.

Lots of false premises there. First of all, Buckwheat, I don't "chirp on." Maybe you do. Second, I've never said anything that could reasonably be interpreted as hating DW. Frankly the idea of hating a drum company is just stupid. I do think that there are better sounding, better quality, drums available, for less money: Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, Fibes, Tempus, among others. I'm happy for anyone who is happy with their DW drums. They're good drums. But, they're overrated and badly overpriced. I've stated my reasons a half a dozen times on this forum and see no reason to repeat them all, but, I will say that DW's have a very limited tuning range and choke out badly at higher tunings and the fit and finish is just not that good or consistent. (In fact, DW's sounded better when they were using Keller shells). For a little more money you could actually get your money's worth and buy a Sonor Designer kit and have the Rolls Royce of drumkits and not have to settle for a Porche. Finally, the drums I play are the drums I choose to play. If I thought DW's were the best sounding drums, then I would play DW's.

[Bernhard]

I really go for this Porsche argument - goes also for Harleys (Yamaha build better machines for lower price - you can even buy parts with resulting less HP for getting a kind of Harley Sound. Only fault: Yamahas are no Harleys......

Henry, I'm really asking: Did you ever own a DW? If no, discussion is useless - really. If you don't play one on a regular basis and tried just out, you are just not a member of the club.

I owned a Yamaha Maple Custom. For sure better tom-mounts - a very good system.

But I prefer now my DW's - don't ask me why, it's just a fact. Overall Sound is also better in my opinion - considering my normal tuning ranges.

And why always stress this money argument? Considering the fact that i play my drums for 40 years, it doesn't matter a lot. So why not going for the more expensive but best?

And also this:
During my long life in business (..not drums) I see, that the people always looking for best prices are ending their lifes as poor guys.


Bernhard

[Henry II]

No Bernhard, I don't own DW's. And I don't expect that I ever will. I don't care for the way they sound - very limited tuning range, and the toms choke out at bop tunings. And I don't need to spend $3,500 on a DW kit to learn that. I've spent plenty of time trying to tune them to my liking side by side with Yamaha and Pearl maple kits, and frankly, the DW's just don't stack up. Nor do they against Fibes maple or Tempus fiberglass kits. DW hardware is good, but obtrusive, and those trash can cover lugs - ugh!

PS: In any event, "The Executioner" asked if DW's were worth the price. I presumed he wanted genuine opinions. I gave him mine. And BTW, I'm not alone by a long shot. BUT, Peter Erskine, having gone to the dark side (DW that is), I'm interested to learn if they are going to make a new drum for him.

[finnhiggins]

I'm not a DW fan. They sound nice from out back (nice, not world-shatteringly, Porche-911ingly nice) but I've not heard many unamplified DWs actually sounding good from out in the room. The number of times I've seen drummers playing DWs on gigs and been frankly underwhelmed by the sound is too many to count, and I've had the chance to check out individual kits from behind and in front with a few different head configurations. Across the board unimpressed, I'm afraid. I certainly wouldn't buy one given a choice between that and a Yamaha or Sonor of similar value.

If you want to talk about the Porche vs Toyota argument then I think you'd be better off comparing something like a Lignum to a DW, not a DW to a Yamaha. Lignum, Ayotte and Brady are closer to what I'd consider the luxury end of the market - they're the Porche, if you want to make that argument.

[Bernhard]

To Henry II

I apologize for my harsh or rude comment. Just was in a bad mood yesterday night, because I had some unexpected trouble with my car...but now the sun is shining.

I also think we have to consider: Differences between GOOD drums are perhabs 1%

Much more important there is the difference of level of drummers ...


Again sorry

Bernhard

[Skitch]

Well,

Let me tell of my COLOSSAL screw-up! In 1993, I had the opportunity to buy a replacement kit for a set of Tama Granstars. At this time a guy in town had put a set of Yamaha Recording Custom series drums - but not just any set. It was a Cherry Wood finish that Dave Weckl gave a drum clinic on the previous summer. I ended up getting some more Tama Granstars. WHAT WAS I THINKING?

The argument is the same - DW drums and hardware is what is setting the standard for the industry right now, just as Yamaha did for the better part of fifteen years. Yamaha's tom holders, by the way, were a modernized version of the Rogers' swiv-o-matic tom holders. I am impressed by GMS drums though.

Also, I have been told that in the past, all Tama, Mapex, and Pearl drums are made on the same assembly line in the Tiawanese factory. They just get different cosmetics at the end of the line. I don't mean to upset anyone here - but has anyone else heard of this as well?


Mike

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[The Executioner]

Mike you may be right I know that Mapex headquarters is in Lavergne Tenn. But their drums are made in China. As far as the same assembly line, I wouldn't know I have never seen the assembly line. There is a lot of speculation on this and it doesn't matter My kit sounds great and I will always be loyal to Mapex no matter where they are manufactured. And Just because they are made in china, doesn't mean that the craftmanship on my orions are inferior to any other company because of the geographic region from which they originated. Those DW private reserve waterfall Bubinga are pretty sharp I must admit.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

To Henry II

I apologize for my harsh or rude comment. Just was in a bad mood yesterday night, because I had some unexpected trouble with my car...but now the sun is shining.

I also think we have to consider: Differences between GOOD drums are perhabs 1%

Much more important there is the difference of level of drummers ...


Again sorry

Bernhard

You're right there Bernhard. Once you get into the top, top end (Yamaha Maple/Birch Customs etc, Sonor Delite +, Tama Starclassics) the sound quality of each kit is going to be great; there is no way of avoiding it. The determining factors are, then, finishes available, hardware available, ease of purchase, overall customer service and of course, the big clincher, price.

In that way, the DW loses out, they cost significantly more for their sound. That's not necessarily a bad thing though. If people are willing to spend that kind of money for some very good drums then I say go for it. Personally I'd take a Yamaha Maple Custom for less but I can't see the harm done in buying DW.

Although I would also agree with Finn. Although my experience is much more limited than his. At a gig a few weeks ago, the drummer was using DW. I looked at the kit before the gig started and thought 'these drums are going to sound great'. They sounded decidely average but that's more likely due to head selection, tuning and the playing than the drums. I have no doubt that that kit could have sounded fantastic with a different player.

That said, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it; and in the case of DW's, they're worth a lot in that respect. Call it brand marketing, call it whatever you want, but they are still great drums.

[Fat Elvis]

If you want to talk about the Porche vs Toyota argument then I think you'd be better off comparing something like a Lignum to a DW, not a DW to a Yamaha. Lignum, Ayotte and Brady are closer to what I'd consider the luxury end of the market - they're the Porche, if you want to make that argument.

For what its worth, I personally consider DW's the high end of the pedestrian drum market (i.e. what can i walk into guitar center and purchase). I personally would consider brands like brady, ayotte, dunnett, etc. far more exotic (read: specialty, more custom order, special shops, etc). For that reason, i would put those in the Ferrari market, if you will. As nice as porsches are, there are certainly more exclusive cars. And the same goes for DW's. I put Yamaha in a class of suburu's simply because you know -- they may not be as flashy, they may not have the name/image, but they are every bit as good in the things that they try to do well. Not sure if this makes sense.... which, this is pretty much of a dead point anyway. :)

[jamsjr44]

I think it all depends on what type of DW's you are referring to? The best sets have to be customed ordered and remember the custom part is what you are paying for, because it's what you want. I think DW's are the best out there right now, but I also think anybody's high end sets sound good, if the person playing them knows how to play first of all and if they now how to tune them correctly. Too many drummers sometimes take other drummers opinions instead of going to a store and trying them out first. I would never pay over $2000 for a set just because someone on this site or another recommended them, that is called being dollar foolish. It's great to get opinions but it is also very important to do your homework and investigate what type of sound and quality you are looking for?

It's like golf clubs I am avid golfer and paid $2100.00 for a custom set of clubs last year, but I also went to the golf pro shop and hit clubs for over an hour for two days until I finally decided on which ones felt best( and yes I did take a few strokes off my handicap, trust me my older clubs were ancient...) Playing drums for as long as I have my 18 year old kit still sounds good, but not as good as what is out there today, but back then it was Remo's top of the line kit. But I plan on buying DW's next year or the year after because I love their sets and have tried them religiously and just like how they sound. And again this all my personal preference, only one of my favorite drummers play DW (Neil Peart), the rest play either Yamaha's, Pearls, Tama's, Sonor's, GMS and all of those kits sound outstanding as well.

It is hard to debate this topic because all of our ears are trained and hear differently, but in all honesty if you really think a pearl export, pdp or pacific kit sounds as good the best DW kit or any other companies top end kit, you are kidding yourself.

[Drums558]

I completly agree that all drum makers top of the line kit's are good drums, lucky us.
I have to say that my DW's sing at higher tuning's. If you are saying Dw's don't have a broad tuning range then I have to disagree and my kit is post keller shell Dw's.
Mike

[Henry II]

I completly agree that all drum makers top of the line kit's are good drums, lucky us.
I have to say that my DW's sing at higher tuning's. If you are saying Dw's don't have a broad tuning range then I have to disagree and my kit is post keller shell Dw's.
Mike

If you have the chance to compare your DW's side by side with a Gretsch Custom, Yamaha MCAN, Pearl MHX (not the MMX), Fibes or Tempus kits, you'll hear the difference. DW's are great for low end, but, that's their limitation, IMHO. Go to the Drumsmith website and ask how many players traded in their DW's for Tempus fiberglass or carbon fiber kits.

[Skitch]

Mike you may be right I know that Mapex headquarters is in Lavergne Tenn. But their drums are made in China. As far as the same assembly line, I wouldn't know I have never seen the assembly line. There is a lot of speculation on this and it doesn't matter My kit sounds great and I will always be loyal to Mapex no matter where they are manufactured. And Just because they are made in china, doesn't mean that the craftmanship on my orions are inferior to any other company because of the geographic region from which they originated. Those DW private reserve waterfall Bubinga are pretty sharp I must admit.
So basically, your Orions could be Pearl Mastersounds or Tama Starclassics? By the way, I have also heard that Mapex refuses to pay DW the royalties owed to DW for the chain drive system. DW owns the patent on this; any company who produces chain drive pedals is legally obligated to pay DW.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Drums558]

Henry,

I did own a Gretsch kit, and loved them, wish i still had them. I had to sell them to pay taxes after i divorced my ex.

I haven't been into drumsmith for a while, need to go check it out again. Anyway, I have been curious about carbon fiber drums, who makes them? We had a Pearl fiberglass kit in high school that sounded sweet, but man were they heavy to lug around. I do think my DW's tune up nicely in the bop range, but then again, i don't play bop and you do so i'll give you the edge on the debate. Because I don't really play bop outside of practise on ocasion maybe there are some subtleties that i am missing that your more aware of.
My DW's did cost too much, but I still luv them.

Mike

[The Executioner]

So basically, your Orions could be Pearl Mastersounds or Tama Starclassics? By the way, I have also heard that Mapex refuses to pay DW the royalties owed to DW for the chain drive system. DW owns the patent on this; any company who produces chain drive pedals is legally obligated to pay DW.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dwsnare.com
http://www.timemachinetheband.net

As I said who cares about that asssembly line. And you are wrong Mapex does not owe Dw royalties on that chain drive pedal because they are manufactured differently.

[Henry II]

Henry,

I did own a Gretsch kit, and loved them, wish i still had them. I had to sell them to pay taxes after i divorced my ex.

I haven't been into drumsmith for a while, need to go check it out again. Anyway, I have been curious about carbon fiber drums, who makes them? We had a Pearl fiberglass kit in high school that sounded sweet, but man were they heavy to lug around. I do think my DW's tune up nicely in the bop range, but then again, i don't play bop and you do so i'll give you the edge on the debate. Because I don't really play bop outside of practise on ocasion maybe there are some subtleties that i am missing that your more aware of.
My DW's did cost too much, but I still luv them.

Mike

Paul Mason, owner of Tempus drums (formerly Milestone), is the current, preeminent maker of fiberglass and carbon fiber drums. He hangs at www.drumsmith.com (http://www.drumsmith.com). His site is at www.tempusdrums.com (http://www.tempusdrums.com). I don't own them, but, I've tried the fiberglass version. Great drums, bigger sound than most wood drums with less harmonics (complicated ringing). The drums are very thin and light weight, and the gelcoat finish is next to indestructable, good for gigging.

[Henry II]

So basically, your Orions could be Pearl Mastersounds or Tama Starclassics? By the way, I have also heard that Mapex refuses to pay DW the royalties owed to DW for the chain drive system. DW owns the patent on this; any company who produces chain drive pedals is legally obligated to pay DW.

Possibly the lower end Pearl and Tama's are made on a common Chinese assembly line, I'm not certain about that. But Pearl and Tama definitely make their own high end drums using their own proprietary methods.

[The Executioner]

Possibly the lower end Pearl and Tama's are made on a common Chinese assembly line, I'm not certain about that. But Pearl and Tama definitely make their own high end drums using their own proprietary methods.
Thank You! i dont know where some people get their information from but its most certainly wrong. I agree with you mapex high end lines are also unique so theres no way they are a"Tama or Pearl" with a Mapex badge. And upon a little research Dws pedals that have sprockets with teeth are patented, Mapex high end hardware which is the 950 series, uses a cam system not a sprocket with teeth like the Dw pedals you are talking about. And there are no such royalties owed because they did not violate the patent.

[Skitch]

Thank You! i dont know where some people get their information from but its most certainly wrong. I agree with you mapex high end lines are also unique so theres no way they are a"Tama or Pearl" with a Mapex badge. And upon a little research Dws pedals that have sprockets with teeth are patented, Mapex high end hardware which is the 950 series, uses a cam system not a sprocket with teeth like the Dw pedals you are talking about. And there are no such royalties owed because they did not violate the patent.

Well, I was just repeating what I was told. And, you might want to check that patent because the method could be patented, not just the physical construction. By the way this issue was raised not on any current Mapex product, Janus, but back in 1998. Maybe this is why they came out with the design you are talking about. And by the way, how is it that you are certain that I am wrong? Where is your research? Don't just walk in and spout your opinion. You martial an argument - back it up!! What about the low-end hardware you neglectfully left out?

I have actually been to DW's factory in Oxnard, CA, watched a guy make a drum with my own eyes. This is when I decided that a DW drum set was going to be my next drum kit. And they sounded great at the studio this past Tuesday (it makes for a great session when both the engineer and the producer start off raving about how great my drums sound!) and on all of the gigs this week!

But really what it gets down is that this is a pointless issue because you are blindly loyal to your drums and I and many others love DW drums. This seems alot like those "my team is better than yours" cries on sports message boards.



Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[finnhiggins]

So basically, your Orions could be Pearl Mastersounds or Tama Starclassics?

No.

My flatmate is a Tama and Yamaha salesman and recently took a trip with a bunch of guys from his company over to China, where they visited both the Tama and Yamaha installations. The Tama factory - even at the low end - is producing Tama equipment only. Ditto Yamaha. There is no common manufacturing of drums for Pearl or Mapex in those factories. The nearest you might get is that they might use hardware (lugs, etc) from the same factories in Taiwan - but so do many custom companies worldwide!

I believe, however, that Taye are responsible for making shells for Mapex and a variety of other smaller brands. This was their core business prior to launching their own brand and getting Ray Ayotte on board.

[Yambian]

When you get to the top of the line kits of any company it becomes impossible to state for a fact which drum company is on top. In all honesty, Pearl Reference, Tama Starclassic, Sonor Designer,Yamaha Recording Custom's and DW collectors drums are matched evenly. People only refer to DW as the porche of drums because they have a high price tag. Quality is matched in the top lines of the major drum companies and I believe that anyone of these kits can get a great sound simply by tuning and personal technique.

[hardhitter]

I have owned DWs, I have switched to Trick as my main set. DWs worth the money? That's a good question. I have to say yes and no. I like the look and sound of DWs but If you put DWs and lets say mapex pro ms in a room with the same drummer and you stood out side the room you think you could tell the DWs? To tell the truth you might but there really close and is it worth 2 to 3 grand more ? The fit and finish is outstanding on DWs. But it's all a matter of choice in high end drums.

I don't know why this always comes up. There are drums out there that cost more then DWs . My Trick kit cost more then my DWs did. I think it's because DWs are seen more then any other. If you saw Yamaha as much I think there price would be higher too. The more you see Pro drummers use stuff like DWs or say OCC thanks to Travis there price goes up.

Just what I think !

PS: I think my Yamaha Absolute Maple sound just as good the DWs did but not close to same price.

[Yambian]

When it comes to smaller companies or custom companies, the prices are generaly higher becuase of less workers, smaller part orders and longer assembly times.
However, for the large companies such as Mapex, Pearl, Tama, Yamaha, Sonor and DW, I just don't see the justification of the higher price tag on DW. Yes, they are quality drums, but so are the other companies drums which can cost up 1-2k less.

[Skitch]

When it comes to smaller companies or custom companies, the prices are generaly higher becuase of less workers, smaller part orders and longer assembly times.
However, for the large companies such as Mapex, Pearl, Tama, Yamaha, Sonor and DW, I just don't see the justification of the higher price tag on DW. Yes, they are quality drums, but so are the other companies drums which can cost up 1-2k less.

Let's see - DW are made in the USA - here there is a guaranteed minimum wage -due to labor laws enacted in the 1930s under FDR. Pearl, Tama Yamaha, Mapex, Yamaha - made in Tiawan - what is the minimum wage there? What is the price tag on a Sonor drumkit these days? Also, at a company like DW, the drums are hand assembled, I have no idea what goes on in Tiawan. They may use a machine.

If you like Mapex, great but don't start a thread and insuate that anyone who owns DW drums is a knucklehead for paying too much for the highest quality and furhtermore, that we are all overpaying for what we are getting from the companies. Challenge - go out and start your own drum company! Be sure to give as much stuff away to everyone and everybody who asks! How long do you think you will last?

Before DW started coming into its own, the most exotic finish you could hope for was either Cherry Red Stain or Piano Black! And mapearltamaha wasn't interested in changing one thing!

If your choice in the Mapeartamaha is THAT MUCH superior, you shouldn't be whinning about why DWs cost so much. It pretty much proves in writing that you already believe your kit to be inferior! Basically, I would say this is a Yugo vs Porsche issue, if you want to reduce it to that level. Furthermore, one DW kit I ordered and one I found used which was a trade-in and negotiated a great deal on!

By the way, for those of you with plenty of time on your hands, go here to see the patents which DW owns.

http://www.uspto.gov


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Yugo vs Porsche? That's a bit unfair. I prefer Elvis' analogy of Subaru vs Porsche.

DW drums are great drums, that much is undeniable. But on the bat of your argument about the minimum wage, I can use exactly the same argument with the example of Premier drums. The top line Premier drums are all made in England. Where the equivalent minimum wage is higher (once currency has been taken into account). Do top end Premier's cost as much as DW's? No. Do they have a few thousand pounds worth of difference in sound? Not if you ask me.

As far as I see it, DW charge as much because they can afford to charge as much (after labour costs are taken into account) because of their brand reputation. There's a 'mystique' around DW drums and a brand image surrounding them that means they can afford to charge a lot more for any single product. DW pedals are a prime example. I have nothing against DW, they make great gear (I play a DW 5000 pedal) but they can afford to charge that bit more because of their brand image. If, for instance, Tama, started asking as much for their Starclassic series then nobody would buy them. Same with Sonor, and their high end kits are manufactured in Germany, where wages can be expensive.

[matt986]

Are DWs worth the cash? Here's my answer, nice and short. No.

[jamsjr44]

I think personal preference reigns supreme.

In terms of sound: it is all about the player. One person can make a kit sound completely different than another person, not to mention style. I have an $800 Pearl Export Radical kit down at North Texas and we have every variety of drum there. Sonor, DW, Yamaha, Gretsch, Pearl, Mapex, even custom kits from Keller shells.

I must admit, I believe my kit sounds just as good, if not better, than some of the other guys down there. I've noticed that some people who have $4000 drum kits that sound like crap to be honest. I believe it is all about the player. Pure and simple. The rest is just preference. You might like round lugs, or artisan finishes, or 18" bass drum lift kits, or free floating shells, but it's really about how the drummer plays them.


I disagree to a point, I've seen some talented drummers play in the local bar scene but their kits sounded like crap because they were playing crappy kits. My first kit was a continental blue sparkle and at the time I got it I could play very well but it was all I could afford, but it wasn't until I upgraded to my Remo Mastertouch that I noticed a huge difference in sound and quality and even my band noticed and some of the regulars that would come to see us play. I will just never believe that a CB700 or Pear Export would sound as good as any of the top of the line kit out there if they are all equally tuned and being played by equally talented drummers. And also Mike being realistic how many drummers at your school are on your level? I bet the number would fit on one hand and that is a compliment to your playing. I mean not many 18 year olds walk into a college already with a Pearl and Sabian sponsorship? I mean you are sort of a prodigy....

[texassoundman]

DW's are great drums and hardware. For the money I would buy a high-end Yamaha or Pearl maple-shell set and spend the rest on lots of Sabian cymbals.

[Bernhard]

Most of the people care for cash...so DW are too expensive.

But there also many people not caring for cash...

Bernhard

[hateplow]

I had the chance to own a "custom" DW 3 piece kit for 3200
or a "custom" Pork Pie 4 piece for 2250. Same sizes and finish.
I decided that DW's are not worth the cash in that case.

[Mikkel]

I play with a DW drum kit, and I love my drum kit, it's the best drum kit I've ever played on, the sound is just så lovely, that you can't describe it, so I would say "year Drum Workshop is worth the cash, but I think it's up to yourself to decide wich drum kit you wanna play on, choose the kit that makes you happy, the kit that makes you "fly", it's what I've done and it just feels amazing, you wanna play Pearl? you wanna play Sonor? you wanna play Ludwig? it dosen't matter what brand it is, it's what you feel is right to play on, hope I could help you on the way. :)

[The Executioner]

I play with a DW drum kit, and I love my drum kit, it's the best drum kit I've ever played on, the sound is just så lovely, that you can't describe it, so I would say "year Drum Workshop is worth the cash, but I think it's up to yourself to decide wich drum kit you wanna play on, choose the kit that makes you happy, the kit that makes you "fly", it's what I've done and it just feels amazing, you wanna play Pearl? you wanna play Sonor? you wanna play Ludwig? it dosen't matter what brand it is, it's what you feel is right to play on, hope I could help you on the way. :)
Good answer. Thanks for your reply.

[IronCobraPTW]

my answer is no
i say this not because i think they are bad drums but because i think there are other companies making drums that are just as good if not better than the dws for a lesser price.

for me it all comes down to personal preference
if you like DWs buy them if you dont, dont.
end of story

[franklinj]

I think DWs sound is overrated, but their finishes are amazing. The Kurillian Birch with the natural to regal blue fade is amazing. ive never seen another kit that even comes close to it.

[finnhiggins]

You got you feelings hurt when I brought this up about Tama Mapex and Pearl all being made at the same factory - which they could be! And then you got you feelings even more hurt when I insinuated you could actually be playing on a set of Tama Starclassics.


I hate to interrupt a good bitch-fight, but you seem to have missed my prior post on this topic.

Mapex use shells made by Taye. The other large brands all have their own facilities in China and do not share production, right down to the Stagestar/Forum/Rydeen or whatever. If you want to confirm this I can give you the telephone number of an independent person who has seen the Yamaha and Tama facilities in China with their own eyes.

[Skitch]

I hate to interrupt a good bitch-fight, but you seem to have missed my prior post on this topic.

Mapex use shells made by Taye. The other large brands all have their own facilities in China and do not share production, right down to the Stagestar/Forum/Rydeen or whatever. If you want to confirm this I can give you the telephone number of an independent person who has seen the Yamaha and Tama facilities in China with their own eyes.


So Mapex doesn't make their own shells - is this what you are saying?

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[The Executioner]

Thats how I interpreted it.

[finnhiggins]

So Mapex doesn't make their own shells - is this what you are saying?


I'm not sure if that is up-to-the-minute correct, but I'm about 99% certain it has been historically - similar to DW's use of Keller. Taye have a long-running business as shell suppliers to a number of Asian brands, they could be described as a far-eastern version of Keller in this respect. It's only in the past five or six years that they've actually had a drum brand to call their own.

[harryconway]

I'm under the impression also that it's only the entry level drums that are made in China and the high end Tama, Pearl and Yamaha drums are still manufactured in Japan.

[finnhiggins]

I'm under the impression also that it's only the entry level drums that are made in China and the high end Tama, Pearl and Yamaha drums are still manufactured in Japan.

I believe that's also correct, and it's very unlikely that given their intense competitive relationships any of those brands share high-end facilities in Japan. Essentially Skitch I think you're going to have to back away from your "Tama = Pearl = all trash anyway" line of reasoning, that does appear to be some kind of myth.

There's certainly less historical similarity between the big Japanese brands in terms of their use of materials than there has been between DW and, say, OCDP, Spaun, GMS and so forth with their use of Keller maple shells.

[Skitch]

I believe that's also correct, and it's very unlikely that given their intense competitive relationships any of those brands share high-end facilities in Japan. Essentially Skitch I think you're going to have to back away from your "Tama = Pearl = all trash anyway" line of reasoning, that does appear to be some kind of myth.

There's certainly less historical similarity between the big Japanese brands in terms of their use of materials than there has been between DW and, say, OCDP, Spaun, GMS and so forth with their use of Keller maple shells.

Sorry - It was a stressful day off; with the Executioner telling how much my band sucks and how much I suck and all. I have this in my e-mail if you need to see it.


Mike

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Fat Elvis]

Sorry - It was a stressful day off; with the Executioner telling how much my band sucks and how much I suck and all. I have this in my e-mail if you need to see it.

I got it too. Obviously between that rude comment and the reference to his daddy, he is young. His only saving grace was that he was mature enough to delete the message before everyone got a chance to see it.

[harryconway]

That certainly was an eyeful and downright appalling.

[IronCobraPTW]

about the tama pearl and i forget which other companies being made in the same places it may have been true but now im sure tamas are made in the same places as Ibanez guitars, or atleast they have the same headquarters where i live

[harryconway]

about the tama pearl and i forget which other companies being made in the same places it may have been true but now im sure tamas are made in the same places as Ibanez guitars, or atleast they have the same headquarters where i live
Do you live in Japan or Taiwan?

[IronCobraPTW]

no they have a U.S. headquarters near me in Bensalem Pennsylvania cause they have more than one around the world and im not talking about like the Top tama headquarters if you get what i mean just branches

[finnhiggins]

no they have a U.S. headquarters near me in Bensalem Pennsylvania cause they have more than one around the world and im not talking about like the Top tama headquarters if you get what i mean just branches

Having multiple brands out of the same distributing company is very common internationally. Yamaha Kemble distribute Zildjian in the UK, MusicWorks carries Yamaha/Tama/Paiste in New Zealand and so forth.

[harryconway]

Indeed, and offices and manufacturing sites are two completely different things. I don't think you will find Ibanez guitars and Tama drums manufactured in the same building. Same country (Japan) though, for their hi end stuff.

[IronCobraPTW]

your right i was just saying that they were somehow in the same building manufacturing or not and that it wasnt another drum company.

[gmrakich]

I own Brady drums, Pork Pie Drums and a DW set as well.
I play the Brady and Pork Pie kits out about 10 times a month.

The DW kit still has the tags on them. After 2 months I have yet to set them up. Just can't get excited about them. The Bradys have their own wonderful tone, not to mention the finish. The Pork Pie drums look and sound beautiful. I have banged on the DW snare and tried to dial in the kick, but they don't even begin to approach the other kits tone, warmth and attack. I have three 9000 double tom stands that are great, I guess. They do weigh a ton.

Lots of DW hype. Lots of marketing. "Buy this kit so you can sound like 1000 other drummers." It is a great product, but it is high end for the masses. If I'm gonna have that $$$$ in a kit, I don't want to find out that the kid around the corner in the punk band has the same drums I do. I also find it hard to believe that there are guys in a back room hitting shells with a rubber mallet, and writing down what note they are. But thats me. And the reason why so many "Pros" play them is the deals they are given. Do you think the same kits we buy are made by the same guys making Pearts kit, and other high visibility players.???

[Fat Elvis]

I own Brady drums, Pork Pie Drums and a DW set as well.
I play the Brady and Pork Pie kits out about 10 times a month.

The DW kit still has the tags on them. After 2 months I have yet to set them up.

im sorry, but you lost me after the part i quoted...... I think thats awesome that you have three killer kits and you have not bothered to set one of them up (a kit that 95% of the people on this board would love to own but won't). That's akin to this statement:

"You know, I own a Ferrari, a Lamborghini and a Porsche Carrera turbo.... And the porsche does not have the performance of the others. I have yet to take the window sticker off of it. I drive the others 10 times a month though"

this falling on the ears of a bunch of suburu drivers :) I hope for the sake of our collective self esteem that you are ugly.

[gmrakich]

im sorry, but you lost me after the part i quoted...... I think thats awesome that you have three killer kits and you have not bothered to set one of them up (a kit that 95% of the people on this board would love to own but won't). That's akin to this statement:

"You know, I own a Ferrari, a Lamborghini and a Porsche Carrera turbo.... And the porsche does not have the performance of the others. I have yet to take the window sticker off of it. I drive the others 10 times a month though"

this falling on the ears of a bunch of suburu drivers :) I hope for the sake of our collective self esteem that you are ugly.

Well I am diabetic : ^ ) Just stating that my opinion IS based on something, I'm loosing my hair. BTW I have six Pork Pie kits. It's getting dark......mother?

I have no kids and own my own biz so I have a little cash to throw at my hobby. I do loan out my stuff all the time to local guys here (Indy) for recording and shows....I share! And never charge them. My way of paying back to the drum community.

Oh, not ugly....sorry. www.myspace.com/blaqlily

[Stu_Strib]

This is such an easy argument.

DW doesn't make bad drums. Their drums are great, and expensive. But... Some of us have a little more money than your average college student. If you've had nothing but good experiences with DW then you tend to keep buying it, regardless of cost. The VALUE is better, knowing you are getting a good product regardless. How many Tama or Mapex people can say they've played 5 different kits over the past year and they've ALL been great?

It's like me with Apple Macintosh (or even iPod). Sure there are faster and better value computers out there, but I have never lost one shred of data or reinstalled system software or gotten a virus in 17 years. My first Mac was in 1988 and I think I'm on my 12th one now. I'm sure there are better deals, but why would I even risk bothering to look?

I like the Porsche -- Subaru comparison. That perfectly exemplifies (at least American) consumerism....stats and tech specs are nice, but there is no accounting for engineering and design (unless your only measurement is speed and gforce, etc.) I would rather have 1 Porsche Boxster-S than 2 Subaru WRX's any day!

[jamsjr44]

This is such an easy argument.

DW doesn't make bad drums. Their drums are great, and expensive. But... Some of us have a little more money than your average college student. If you've had nothing but good experiences with DW then you tend to keep buying it, regardless of cost. The VALUE is better, knowing you are getting a good product regardless. How many Tama or Mapex people can say they've played 5 different kits over the past year and they've ALL been great?

It's like me with Apple Macintosh (or even iPod). Sure there are faster and better value computers out there, but I have never lost one shred of data or reinstalled system software or gotten a virus in 17 years. My first Mac was in 1988 and I think I'm on my 12th one now. I'm sure there are better deals, but why would I even risk bothering to look?

I like the Porsche -- Subaru comparison. That perfectly exemplifies (at least American) consumerism....stats and tech specs are nice, but there is no accounting for engineering and design (unless your only measurement is speed and gforce, etc.) I would rather have 1 Porsche Boxster-S than 2 Subaru WRX's any day!

Great post Stu, I don't know why people want to try to discredit DW? You are going to pay for quality and DW produces high quality kits that can be customized to just about any finish you want, but also they sound amazing IMHO. I guess what bothers me most is people forget the most important thing: YOUR DRUM CHOICE IS A PERSONAL PREFERENCE!! Plus when you order something CUSTOMED, you are going to pay for it because it is what you want!

I would not expect every drummer to like DW, just because I love them or Neil Peart uses them, but I have also said that all the big companies make high quality kits and you are going to pay for them regardless. It's like asking is a BMW 325 worth the price? In my opinion yes but you can get an Audi A4 that will perform the same to a point and pay less, but it is not a BMW!!

I think people like to discredit companies that charge alot because they can't afford them. I mean reallistically how many people on here can go drop $3000.00 on a kit right now?? I could but my wife would kill me because we are trying to build a new house in a year, but most guys on here probably can't, so it's easy to say they are not worth the cash and buy something alot cheaper like a Pearl Export and then try to convince yourself is sounds as good as a maple kit from DW. But that is why DW also makes PDP's because they know not everyone can afford their best kits.

And with Pork Pies and Brady which are outstanding kits as well, if they had as many customers as DW's their prices would go up the same. Then someone in the next couple of years will be posting the same question are Pork Pies and Brady's worth the cash? With more demand for their products, the cost to manufacture them would raise and those extra cost get passed on to us. I willing to bet Pork Pies best kit today if it only cost $2000.00, will not be the same next year if their reputation continues to rise, it's just plain economics. DW's started in the guys garage and basement now look at the manufacturing process they have? And there is no way they could still meet the demand for their drums or produce them in mass volume if they didn't expand or increase the cost of their products.

[Drums558]

My DW kit was built in 1997/98 so I cant speak for todays production, but I know my kit was built by the same specialists that built the pro's kits at the time. They called me twice during the manufacture of my kit to discuss deails of what I wanted. One call, I believe it was Scott Garrison who called my memory sucks, just called to suggest I get a 15 instead of a 14" tom for my lowest tom. I stuck with the 14 because I thought 15" heads might be harder to get in a pinch, sometimes I wonder if this was the best choice.
I'm sure they had their best paint guy and edge guy working on Neils kit, but those same guys/gals work on production kits also.
Mike

[IronCobraPTW]

Great post Stu, I don't know why people want to try to discredit DW? You are going to pay for quality and DW produces high quality kits that can be customized to just about any finish you want, but also they sound amazing IMHO. I guess what bothers me most is people forget the most important thing: YOUR DRUM CHOICE IS A PERSONAL PREFERENCE!! Plus when you order something CUSTOMED, you are going to pay for it because it is what you want!

I would not expect every drummer to like DW, just because I love them or Neil Peart uses them, but I have also said that all the big companies make high quality kits and you are going to pay for them regardless. It's like asking is a BMW 325 worth the price? In my opinion yes but you can get an Audi A4 that will perform the same to a point and pay less, but it is not a BMW!!

I think people like to discredit companies that charge alot because they can't afford them. I mean reallistically how many people on here can go drop $3000.00 on a kit right now?? I could but my wife would kill me because we are trying to build a new house in a year, but most guys on here probably can't, so it's easy to say they are not worth the cash and buy something alot cheaper like a Pearl Export and then try to convince yourself is sounds as good as a maple kit from DW. But that is why DW also makes PDP's because they know not everyone can afford their best kits.

And with Pork Pies and Brady which are outstanding kits as well, if they had as many customers as DW's their prices would go up the same. Then someone in the next couple of years will be posting the same question are Pork Pies and Brady's worth the cash? With more demand for their products, the cost to manufacture them would raise and those extra cost get passed on to us. I willing to bet Pork Pies best kit today if it only cost $2000.00, will not be the same next year if their reputation continues to rise, it's just plain economics. DW's started in the guys garage and basement now look at the manufacturing process they have? And there is no way they could still meet the demand for their drums or produce them in mass volume if they didn't expand or increase the cost of their products.

very well put

i think many people discredit anything because they are jealous of it in some way and everyone knows when you hear the name DW you think of great drums and this is coming from a tama fan

but also on the price issue yea if you were to get a 4 or 5 piece kit the price diffrent is about 700+ from most brands at that quality...but when you get into larger drum sets the price difference is rediculous because i am about to buy a 9 piece tama starclassic performer for around 4500 dallors and i got a dw quoted for the exact same drum set and it came out to be around 8100 with out a drum rack which i included in the tama price so in that sense you have to think is getting a DW worth paying 3500 dallors more...for some people it is and for others it isnt

[gmrakich]

As I said I think DW makes fine drums, but at that price, why not explore other options. To DW is pretty generic, great but generic. I don't want to pay that $ money for generic. If others do, I think that is great. I just choose not to follow the flock and have a 7000.00 kit that sounds like a thousand other 7000 kits.
Enjoy your DW tubs...they are very good instruments, just not for me.

Peace

[Fat Elvis]

As I said I think DW makes fine drums, but at that price, why not explore other options. To DW is pretty generic, great but generic. I don't want to pay that $ money for generic. If others do, I think that is great. I just choose not to follow the flock and have a 7000.00 kit that sounds like a thousand other 7000 kits.
Enjoy your DW tubs...they are very good instruments, just not for me.

Peace

It's quite bizzarre to hear someone talk about $7000 drums like they are a common thing. :)

[jamsjr44]

very well put

i think many people discredit anything because they are jealous of it in some way and everyone knows when you hear the name DW you think of great drums and this is coming from a tama fan

but also on the price issue yea if you were to get a 4 or 5 piece kit the price diffrent is about 700+ from most brands at that quality...but when you get into larger drum sets the price difference is rediculous because i am about to buy a 9 piece tama starclassic performer for around 4500 dallors and i got a dw quoted for the exact same drum set and it came out to be around 8100 with out a drum rack which i included in the tama price so in that sense you have to think is getting a DW worth paying 3500 dallors more...for some people it is and for others it isnt

And with your post I agree if we are talking about two equally quality kits, like a Tama Starclassic which are awesome sounding kits by the way, as much as I love DW am I going to pay that much more for it? That would be tough... But this topic was originally started that someone thought they could get the same quality, sound and gear from a Pearl Export as in DW's best kit and that's the part I just don't see. Ask PEARL if they think their Exports sound as good as their Masterworks or Artisan series? As a matter of fact go to Pearls website any one of you and ask yourself if the Pearl Masterworks/ Artisan Series is worth the cash? These are a few prices I pulled off their pricing list (maple, birch or mahagony shells)

Bass Drum 22' - $3050
Snare Drum 14' - $1650
Tom 10' - $1020
Tom 12' - $1120
Tom 13' - $1270
Floor Tom 15' - $1760
Floor Tom 18' - $1810

I know these are list prices but it still adds up to $11,680 for that kit even if you took 20% off your still looking at $9345.00 oh and that includes no stands. :-).
This set is completely customizable just like a DW.

I guess the real question is why did we pick such a dam expensive instrument to fall in love with!!..LOL

[harryconway]

Actually the thread was started by the Executioner (who plays Mapex and his brother plays DW) and he felt his Mapex was every bit as good a kit as a DW kit. And it got ugly. Another side to the game is, if you want a DW kit real bad, they're all over eBay. You can save yourself some big dough, and it's probably a safe bet that most DW owners don't flog their equipment.

[gmrakich]

Actually the thread was started by the Executioner (who plays Mapex and his brother plays DW) and he felt his Mapex was every bit as good a kit as a DW kit. And it got ugly. Another side to the game is, if you want a DW kit real bad, they're all over eBay. You can save yourself some big dough, and it's probably a safe bet that most DW owners don't flog their equipment.

Well one of the reasons I got the DW is because they are built like tanks. My kit is emerald green onyx (I play in a celtic band) We do festivals in the summer, and play sometimes 3 or 4 sets over the span of a day. Durable wrap and sturdy drums equate to screw the cases, throw them in the back of the truck. (don't freak. Truck bed, sides included is lined with at bed rug.) This way I have a great sounding "beater" and will be saving myself a few hours aday taking them in and out of cases. Please don't think my other kits couldn't hang, they could. But I don't want to have to deal with the cases. I guess it comes down to me being a lazy bastard. : ^ )

As far as DW worth the cash, I think to 99% of the people, they would not be able to tell the difference in tone, attack etc between a PEARL Expot and a Brady, Pork Pie, DW or other high end kit. We are trying to impress ourselves, other drummers and the other 1% with great hearing when we spend the big cash. Nothing is wrong with that....I am a junkie and am helping with several drum makers childrens college funds. As far as prices on DW, here is a little know fact.....On DW exotic kits, dealer cost is 45% of retail, on wrapped kits its 40%. You can imagine DWs cost to produce a kit........I got my kit for 54% off...6 piece verticle grain shells, three 9000 double stands for under 3200. At the end of the festival season I will sell it for about 3000.
I know that at Brady and Pork Pie the owner of the company is still very involved, hands on, in every step of production, so they , IMO are worth the price tag. The have great builders at DW as well, but there is little or no owner involvement. We are not talking about VW BUGS...we are talking about musical instruments.

[Buhaina]

So what actually are DW list prices? They seem to be the only drum manufacturer that won't make price lists available. You have to go to the dealer to find anything out. I'm considering a DW kit as well as some others and would like to be able to sit at home and compare offerings and prices before going to the dealer but DW makes that difficult. Anyone know what current DW prices are?

[cornelius]

Lots of DW hype. Lots of marketing... I also find it hard to believe that there are guys in a back room hitting shells with a rubber mallet, and writing down what note they are. But thats me. And the reason why so many "Pros" play them is the deals they are given. Do you think the same kits we buy are made by the same guys making Pearts kit, and other high visibility players.???

I've talked to John Good at length on these topics before. I'm also friendly with one of his long term endorsers, so I've heard a lot of what goes on behind the scenes at DW. Everyone talks about DW's marketing and hype, and when I see a drummer bring up these topics, it just shows a lack of understanding of DW's methods. Everything DW does is pretty straightforward, so there's no voodoo. I've played endorser's DWs before, and they never struck me as anything more special than mine - visually or sonically. John Good is a fanatic about what he makes, no matter who the customer.

[gmrakich]

So what actually are DW list prices? They seem to be the only drum manufacturer that won't make price lists available. You have to go to the dealer to find anything out. I'm considering a DW kit as well as some others and would like to be able to sit at home and compare offerings and prices before going to the dealer but DW makes that difficult. Anyone know what current DW prices are?


Dealer Protection =what the market will bear.

Cost an average of 40K first order to open a DW dealership, and they shove manditory pedals and hardware on you. Very friendly.
What sizes and finish do you want and I will get you the dealer cost so you can bargain.

[jamsjr44]

Dealer Protection =what the market will bear.

Cost an average of 40K first order to open a DW dealership, and they shove manditory pedals and hardware on you. Very friendly.
What sizes and finish do you want and I will get you the dealer cost so you can bargain.


There is nothing wrong with that all the companies do it. I'm a huge supporter of NIKE athletic wear and my local store does not carry any of it, why? because you must take $100K of inventory. To open a Subway sandwich franchise averages $250k. To sell Dell Computers about $100k. See my point if you want to sell some of the best gear you have got pay, but if you sell good stuff it will bring in REPEAT customers and that is what you want. The owner of the local store saw the short side of it did not want to sell NIKE so half of the town goes to Dick's Sporting Goods, if he just invested a little he would be getting all that money himself.

But sticking to drums all the companies want you to sell their hardware as well with your their kits, that's just makes economic sense on their part. Personally right now I have a remo masterouch, dw pedals, pearl, remo, yamaha, ascend, and gibraltar stands.

Whether it's DW or not all of them are in it to make money, bottom line. DW does not review the price list because all dealers can afford to give different discounts. If you own 5 stores and the guys across town owns one, the owner of the five will probably give you a better deal, why? because he can afford it. DW let's the dealer determine how much of a profit he wants to make and in all honesty some are greedier than others. When I went looking to purchase my DW9002 bass drum pedal I paid 429 for it at GC. The two other places I went to, which are much smaller than them wanted list price $499.00 and when I said I could get it 70 bucks cheaper at GC, he said "then go buy it there". Well I will never buy anything from him and he is only 10 minutes away from my house, but now I will drive the 30 mins just so I am not giving him any of my money and I spend an average of $300-$500 a year on sticks and heads and other stuff, it's not much to GC but to him and he is willing to do be that way to 5 other guys like myself, he is likely costing himself $2500 a year in extra business.

[gmrakich]

If there is a DEMAND for the pedals, stands, etc, a dealer would be stupid not to carry. But to be FORCED to buy 3 5000 doubles, 3 9000 doubles, 12 cymbal stands and 6 snare and hi hat stands , just to carry the KITS THEY TELL YOU TO BUY (manditory three exotics and three wrap) for the honor of carrying the line is a bit harsh. And no, I am not a guy in North Dakota who is pissed off because I can't afford a dealership :^ )

GC is the WALMART of musical instruments. What do you think will happen with prices when all the mom and pops are gone. DW is GC's house brand in drums. BTW at 429.00 they still made $150 on your sale.
I am not a DW hater at all but its hard to grasp the brand loyalty with them.

[Henry II]

And with your post I agree if we are talking about two equally quality kits, like a Tama Starclassic which are awesome sounding kits by the way, as much as I love DW am I going to pay that much more for it? That would be tough... But this topic was originally started that someone thought they could get the same quality, sound and gear from a Pearl Export as in DW's best kit and that's the part I just don't see. Ask PEARL if they think their Exports sound as good as their Masterworks or Artisan series? As a matter of fact go to Pearls website any one of you and ask yourself if the Pearl Masterworks/ Artisan Series is worth the cash? These are a few prices I pulled off their pricing list (maple, birch or mahagony shells)

Bass Drum 22' - $3050
Snare Drum 14' - $1650
Tom 10' - $1020
Tom 12' - $1120
Tom 13' - $1270
Floor Tom 15' - $1760
Floor Tom 18' - $1810

I know these are list prices but it still adds up to $11,680 for that kit even if you took 20% off your still looking at $9345.00 oh and that includes no stands. :-).
This set is completely customizable just like a DW.

I guess the real question is why did we pick such a dam expensive instrument to fall in love with!!..LOL

Typically, you can get 40-50% off of the list price. Interstate Music sells at almost 50% off of list on high end drums.

[jamsjr44]

Typically, you can get 40-50% off of the list price. Interstate Music sells at almost 50% off of list on high end drums.

Okay but that is still at least $6000.00 for a non DW kit isn't that about the same a custom DW kit will cost? So is a Pearl Artisan worth the cash.

[jamsjr44]

If there is a DEMAND for the pedals, stands, etc, a dealer would be stupid not to carry. But to be FORCED to buy 3 5000 doubles, 3 9000 doubles, 12 cymbal stands and 6 snare and hi hat stands , just to carry the KITS THEY TELL YOU TO BUY (manditory three exotics and three wrap) for the honor of carrying the line is a bit harsh. And no, I am not a guy in North Dakota who is pissed off because I can't afford a dealership :^ )

GC is the WALMART of musical instruments. What do you think will happen with prices when all the mom and pops are gone. DW is GC's house brand in drums. BTW at 429.00 they still made $150 on your sale.
I am not a DW hater at all but its hard to grasp the brand loyalty with them.

I had my first DW5000 for 16 years before I bought this one 2 years ago and it never gave me one problem, I finally got rid of it because it was old and had done all it could and I bought that pedal used $275.00 and it still lasted me that long. So to me for that price and the dependability I just believe in there equipment. Before I went to a DW pedal I had a Yamaha, Pearl and Ludwig single pedals and I broke them all. I know there pedals are much better today, but I will stick with DW. I love my Remo Mastertouch kit but they don't make them anymore, but if they did I would replace my old one with a new Remo.

And again NO DEALER is forced to sell DW but if they want too then they need abide by their rules and I do not have a problem with that. Just like anyone of us you can buy any car we want, you don't have to buy a BMW if you don't want to.

[gmrakich]

I will say DW and Sonor have the best hardware : ^ )

[finnhiggins]

We're getting a long way from the original question, I think.

Are Drum Workshop worth the cash? Well, answering that needs two bits of data:

1) What else is available for the same price?
2) What do all the different kits in the same price range sound like, to you.

The second is subjective, so we're not going to arrive at a single correct answer. BUT, my answer to the second one is "They sound better". I've heard, acoustically, brand new Yamaha MCA and DW kits in the same room. The Yamaha sounded worse from behind, much better from the audience perspective. The Yamaha is a cheaper kit. The DW might be a good choice for recording where you're likely to hear a lot of the sound from behind, but for a mix of live and studio work I'd take the MCA any day, even if I had the money for a DW.

But when you move up to the competing Ayotte, Sonor etc stuff (i.e - similar large-brand custom makers) then I don't think there's much competition. When I think back to drum sounds that have made me go "Wow" in recent years, none of them that I can think of are DW players. I'm thinking... say... Danny Carey's Sonor tom sound (before the all-metal kit, which isn't quite to my taste), Steve Smith's Sonor kit on the Vital Information live disc (just for "The drum also waltzes", sans cheesy band), Matt Chamberlain's Ayotte Woodhoop + Keplinger snare on the Tori Amos live disc and so forth. I can't think of a DW drum sound that does it for me in the same way.

At the other extreme I actually quite like the crappy-gear sound that you get out of Joey Baron, you can get a remarkably good impression of his tone out of a Yamaha Rydeen and it sounds marvellous. But since we're talking about hyper expensive drums with that pristene, clear tone I'd rather have an Ayotte or Sonor any day - or something produced by a very small master-craftsman shop like Pork Pie or Lignum, rather than a mass-produced approach like that at DW which don't offer things like custom-shaped wood hoops or custom configurations of exotic shell materials and stave construction, etc.

[jamsjr44]

We're getting a long way from the original question, I think.

Are Drum Workshop worth the cash? Well, answering that needs two bits of data:

1) What else is available for the same price?
2) What do all the different kits in the same price range sound like, to you.

The second is subjective, so we're not going to arrive at a single correct answer. BUT, my answer to the second one is "They sound better". I've heard, acoustically, brand new Yamaha MCA and DW kits in the same room. The Yamaha sounded worse from behind, much better from the audience perspective. The Yamaha is a cheaper kit. The DW might be a good choice for recording where you're likely to hear a lot of the sound from behind, but for a mix of live and studio work I'd take the MCA any day, even if I had the money for a DW.

But when you move up to the competing Ayotte, Sonor etc stuff (i.e - similar large-brand custom makers) then I don't think there's much competition. When I think back to drum sounds that have made me go "Wow" in recent years, none of them that I can think of are DW players. I'm thinking... say... Danny Carey's Sonor tom sound (before the all-metal kit, which isn't quite to my taste), Steve Smith's Sonor kit on the Vital Information live disc (just for "The drum also waltzes", sans cheesy band), Matt Chamberlain's Ayotte Woodhoop + Keplinger snare on the Tori Amos live disc and so forth. I can't think of a DW drum sound that does it for me in the same way.

At the other extreme I actually quite like the crappy-gear sound that you get out of Joey Baron, you can get a remarkably good impression of his tone out of a Yamaha Rydeen and it sounds marvellous. But since we're talking about hyper expensive drums with that pristene, clear tone I'd rather have an Ayotte or Sonor any day - or something produced by a very small master-craftsman shop like Pork Pie or Lignum, rather than a mass-produced approach like that at DW which don't offer things like custom-shaped wood hoops or custom configurations of exotic shell materials and stave construction, etc.

Well all of these drummers kits on DW on the recordings I have heard sound just as amazing to me: Marco Minnemann , Neil Peart, Matt Chamberlain(also plays DW), Matt Sorum, Gerald Heyward, Tony Royster Jr. etc... But I also believe it comes down to head configurations, tuning and what sound you prefer to hear drums sound like and the style of music. Steve Smiths kit would not sound good playing Sevendust Material (Morgan Rose who plays PEARL) Just like Neils kit the way it is tuned would probably not sound good playing TOOL songs, but he could change to tuning and heads to probably make it.

When you get down to it in my opinion any kit approaching the $2000 range is going to sound good if you know how to make it.

[tambian89]

Well all of these drummers kits on DW on the recordings I have heard sound just as amazing to me: Marco Minnemann , Neil Peart, Matt Chamberlain(also plays DW), Matt Sorum, Gerald Heyward, Tony Royster Jr. etc... But I also believe it comes down to head configurations, tuning and what sound you prefer to hear drums sound like and the style of music. Steve Smiths kit would not sound good playing Sevendust Material (Morgan Rose who plays PEARL) Just like Neils kit the way it is tuned would probably not sound good playing TOOL songs, but he could change to tuning and heads to probably make it.

When you get down to it in my opinion any kit approaching the $2000 range is going to sound good if you know how to make it.

I agree with you in some respect, but Josh Freese said that he has recorded everything from soft rock to speed metal with his DW kit and said that his kit is perfect for any genre. I think DW makes great drums for all genres.

- Marc

[d.c.drummer]

Totally worth it. You get the kit of your dreams form DW. Try Pearl Reference series for high end drums.

[76RogersLondoner]

I work in a drum shop so I get to see and play most things.DW kits are amazing and some border on works of art.
Any kit can sound good with nice heads and good tuning.We put Evans heads on our cheaper kits and they sound awesome.But DW kits sound good straight out of the box!
The only kit that compares is the mighty Pearl Reference.I think that maybe the next version of the Reference could well be the best kit ever,as there are a couple of tweaks they need to fix.
Probably DW for me though.Thats what I am saving for.Gotta love that sub woofer !!!

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Rogers, what kind of tweaks do you think they could do with the Reference series? I'd be interested in knowing this indeed.

[The Executioner]

WEll I think the finishes on The DW's are untouchable no other company comes close, but my question was is the sound far and away better than the kits I mentioned at the start of the thread IMO they are not when it comes to sound, but the finishes are as I said untouchable.

[finnhiggins]

Well all of these drummers kits on DW on the recordings I have heard sound just as amazing to me: Marco Minnemann , Neil Peart, Matt Chamberlain(also plays DW), Matt Sorum, Gerald Heyward, Tony Royster Jr. etc...

See, this is where we get down to taste. None of those guys apart from Matt C have ever really stuck out as having great drum sounds for me, and the recordings where I thought he had the best drum sounds were the ones where he was playing Ayotte rather than DW. Neil Peart, Marco Minnemann etc... just doesn't do it for me. Sounds well-produced, but not awe-inspiring.

To my ears DW kits just record a bit generic. Nice, but ordinary. I'd rather hear Joey Baron making some pile of junk with knackered old heads sound really personal and unique than hear yet another clean, boring DW drum sound. And while I play Yamaha that's probably true of their stuff too. But Yamaha does have the advantage of being cheaper and sounding good in an unmiked live environment, unlike the DW kits I've encountered.

[Henry II]

. . . What else is available for the same price? . . .

Or less, and sound better:

Yamaha MCAN's BCAN's (the most recorded drums in pop music)
Gretsch USA Customs
Fibes (Maple and acrylic)
Tempus (fiberglass and carbon fiber)
Sonor Designers (OK, these are more expensive, but actually worth the $)
Ludwig Classic Maples
Premier (Premier Series)
Keller Kits that Totally Kill: GMS, Pork Pie, Spaun

[harryconway]

It all boils down to taste. Sound and visual. That awesome finish on the DW kit. You pay for that. It's not like you can discount the $2000 lacquer job and exotic wood outer ply. It's part of what you pay for.

[Fat Elvis]

this whole argument is just getting stupid.... maybe it always has been.

If you like mapex, cool.
If you like Yamaha, cool.
If you like DW, cool.

It was said once in this thread and it is the only REAL mark of good drum sound -- the person holding the sticks sitting behind the kit. If Carter Beuford sat behind my Tama Rockstar and i sat behing my DW or ANY of the kits we all hold near and dear to our hearts, Carter would make that Rockstar sound like a million bucks and we all would sound pathetic in comparison... no matter what exotic wood your kit is made out of or what sticker adorns the front of the kick.

a suburu sti can beat my porsche boxster S -- unless michael schumacher is driving my porsche. Then you had better get a MUCH faster car and a WHOLE LOT of talent.

[gmrakich]

So I agree. DW is worth the money, if they are to you.

[harryconway]

this whole argument is just getting stupid.... maybe it always has been.

If you like mapex, cool.
If you like Yamaha, cool.
If you like DW, cool.


Agreed. Walk tall. Be proud of the drums you own. If not, aspire to one day own a set of drums you can be proud of.

[gmrakich]

Agreed. Walk tall. Be proud of the drums you own. If not, aspire to one day own a set of drums you can be proud of.

Just got a DW Exotic 5 piece today....24 12 14 16 snare celtic band....woohooo I guess.

[Urahara Kisuke]

I play dw drums and I am getting a second dw kit in just a month from now. Lots of people don't take into consideration that DW is not mass manufactured. Mass manufactured drums will of course cost less. Going with a custom drum company like dw, which has an outstanding reputation, means you won't have to worry whether your drums will sound as good as they should for the money you spend. DW has extras you won't get with a mass manufactured kit, pitch matched shells, chrome, gold, satin, or black lugs, mini lugs or standard lugs, custom sizes, attention to detail, more finishes, and reinforcement rings.

Is DW worth the cash?

No, if all you are looking for is a kit in standard sizes with a standard finish.
Yes, if you are looking for a kit with more bling appeal, custom sizes, more choices for finishes, and a superior sound.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/Urahara7/000_0615.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/Urahara7/awesomedwkit.jpg

[Stu_Strib]

freakin' sweet kit, inspite of the roses...

I love DW finishes and that pewter hardware is great.

[gmrakich]

I screwed a bottle opener on the side of my Exotic 24 kick. Now it is UBBER custom.
DW wrapped kits ( finish PLY my ass) I think are worth the cash.
3 to 4 thousand extra for the tatoo artist or custom chopper tank painter to do foffy art all over the kit seems like a waste, IMHO.
I don't have gold plated gutters on my house. I bought a boat with the saved money. Any one want my 10K tribal for 4500, new & unplayed, it's yours.

[illustrator X]

I don't think so. Don't get me wrong they do Maple very well. The right shell thickness, and the right bearing edge for an ultra smooth tone. However, other hi-end kits sound just as good for less cost. Also I can't get passed DW's ugly hardware design. Yes, asthetics shouldn't matter.. but (to me) those giant non functional looking buttons for lugs look like something from a toy clown drum set. Those big chunky lugs also look even more off balance when accompanied by the hoops that are thin and cheap looking like something off of an entry level kit.
I recently considered buying a four piece with a finish I liked and planned on swapping the hoops, but then I came to my sences and plan on ordering Yamie custom absolute that sound comparable and cost less.

[Jusstickinaround]

you know i get this exact same comment about my car from suburu owners. hmmmm....

you know, with all due respect (and that this point, very little is due) you always chirp on about how over-rated they are, yet you so rarely support your argument. Your "absolute" obsession with yamaha is only exceeded by your "absolute" hatred for DW. Many people find value in these drums. They are well made, well finished, use incredible materials. Since you play the suburu of the drum world, i guess we can all understand why you would hate the porsche of the drum world.

That's your opinion, I don't think DW is the Porsche of the drum world. I know this guy who owns a drum shop and he told me that a lot of people trade in there DW's to him for one of his custom made kits or just because they want something else, you don't see many people who own a Porsche do that. I've played some Dw's at GC and tried tuning them and found that DW's like to be tuned low, they didn't seem to have much of a range, in fact when I tuned them up higher they sounded very thin. If I could buy any kit at GC it would be the black oyster Ludwig kit they have, just because I like Ludwig. DW is overated because of very good marketing and buying off a number of top players to endorse them in my opinion.

[Skitch]

That's your opinion, I don't think DW is the Porsche of the drum world. I know this guy who owns a drum shop and he told me that a lot of people trade in there DW's to him for one of his custom made kits or just because they want something else, you don't see many people who own a Porsche do that. I've played some Dw's at GC and tried tuning them and found that DW's like to be tuned low, they didn't seem to have much of a range, in fact when I tuned them up higher they sounded very thin. If I could buy any kit at GC it would be the black oyster Ludwig kit they have, just because I like Ludwig. DW is overated because of very good marketing and buying off a number of top players to endorse them in my opinion.

As far as your tuning statement, I have been playing DWs for five years, and have found the tuning range on DW drums just fine thank you! I have mine tuned in a nice middle of the ground area and they sound great! This statement is a rumor started by some DW hater! It was the same guy who started the rumor that went like this..."The only good heads for a Yamaha Recording series drum set are Remo Pinstripes." Is it true? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

And Ludwig has has bought off a number of top players especially in the country market! So don't make DW sound like they are pure evil and nobody else gives gear away!

Hey, here's a thought:

Don't ever play DW even if they offer you free stuff. This shouldn't be a problem since you think that they suck so much!

"And I know this guy who owns this drum shop......"

this argument sounds like one of those "I know a guy who knows a few people who know this other person" third grade rants! If you like what you play, then go play them but don't try to argue with me that DW is overrated because your drums don't get the respect that DWs are getting!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Drumowner]

Oh man this topic has got to be older than DW itself (the company).
Here's something a few of you kinda got close to.

How much do you think Yamaha absolutes, Tama Starclassics, Mapex Orions, ect. would cost if they were manufactured in the United States. A damn lot, that's how much.

As for the "custom drum makers" saying "yeah people trade DW's in for my stuff all the time"...yeah...sure.
I'm not saying people would not trade in DW's, I'm just saying I have heard that line from every salesman about everything.

I have never been able to understand peoples "loyality" to anything that is not directly benificial to them. (in this reguard).
Like football or something...people go nuts for their team and get nuts if you say "meh, their ok i guess" or something to that affect they flip out.

Same goes for people and bands.....Metallica for example....I'm sure a whole topic of some kind could be started on just the name alone.
So and so sucks, or so and so sold out or whatever. In the end does it really matter?
IMO, as long as a band/drum company makes a product I enjoy, it's worth the money.
Will I evey try to convince anyone else of my opinion..no, why would I want to, why would I even care to. Further more, why would they want me to convince them?

Bottom line, if you buy a DW set and are happy, cool.
If you buy a DW kit and you hate it, you got screwed (because that's all your going to tell everyone anyways) LOL sell it and move on.

Now let's all go play Private Idaho in double time.
Any misspellings are due to my crappy spelling, imagine that.


Drumowner says
"I don't "own" on drums, but I "own" some"

[macmarkus]

thanks, mike ... full agree with your post!

[rendezvous_drummer]

Plain and simple....they are worth the money.

[Fat Elvis]

That's your opinion, I don't think DW is the Porsche of the drum world. I know this guy who owns a drum shop and he told me that a lot of people trade in there DW's to him for one of his custom made kits or just because they want something else, you don't see many people who own a Porsche do that. I've played some Dw's at GC and tried tuning them and found that DW's like to be tuned low, they didn't seem to have much of a range, in fact when I tuned them up higher they sounded very thin. If I could buy any kit at GC it would be the black oyster Ludwig kit they have, just because I like Ludwig. DW is overated because of very good marketing and buying off a number of top players to endorse them in my opinion.

If you actually think that more people trade in DW's everyday than Porsches, you are kidding yourself. Think about that statement for minute -- how many porsche owners are there in the country -- or world for that matter.... hundreds of thousands? At least.... do you really think that DW owners can even come close to approaching 6 figures?

seriously....

[Sonor]

I traded my Porsche in for a Chevy Cavalier.

[tubbyadam]

This is my first post to this forum and I'd like to chime in on this older than dirt thread.

I do not own DW drums. I am not somebody who believes that there is a be all and end all drum kit or manufacturer. Drums are like ice cream. There are a million and one flavors to choose from so who is to say what should be the next guy's favorite flavor.

That being said, DW drums are like vanilla or chocolate ice cream. They have become the standard for EVERYONE, period. The last several groups I've worked with have had pretty much the same audition process. They call me up, tell me their story, ask if I'd like to come down and give it a go. They always ask the rhetorical question “What kind of drums do you play…DW right?” When I tell them no, I play a Pearl Masters Studio BRX kit it’s like saying, “Welcome to the TasteeFreeze Ice Cream Shop, we don’t have Vanilla or Chocolate.” Even if they didn’t want vanilla or chocolate, somehow they get let down. The standard isn’t always set by us drummers. DW drums have become so synonymous with quality, beauty, and tone that it has spilled over to every other musician’s lexicon.

Whether you like it or not, having DW drums looks good on your resume.

[Deathmetalconga]

If you're going to lay down that kind of cash for a drum set, go with something that will give you a really distinctive sound - that's what I did.

DWs are great mass-market drums, but they are plywood, just like every CB700. There are many, many other materials that look just as well and sound just as good. But everyone is hung up on plywood drums - have been for 150 years. Before then, drums were carved by hand, steam-bent from a board or made of staves.

Some examples: Solid shell, stave, fiberglass, carbon fiber, composites, metals, etc. etc.

[Fat Elvis]

If you're going to lay down that kind of cash for a drum set, go with something that will give you a really distinctive sound - that's what I did.

DWs are great mass-market drums, but they are plywood, just like every CB700. There are many, many other materials that look just as well and sound just as good. But everyone is hung up on plywood drums - have been for 150 years. Before then, drums were carved by hand, steam-bent from a board or made of staves.

Some examples: Solid shell, stave, fiberglass, carbon fiber, composites, metals, etc. etc.

comparing a DW to a CB700 is just a SLIGHT stretch..... come on. Give me a break. That's like me comparring a dualist to a tupperware bowl.... they're both plastic, aren't they?

[Deathmetalconga]

comparing a DW to a CB700 is just a SLIGHT stretch..... come on. Give me a break. That's like me comparring a dualist to a tupperware bowl.... they're both plastic, aren't they?

I don't know about that analogy, as they're made of different types of plastic and designed with completely different intentions. I would say DW is more like Lexus, CB700 more like Hyundai.

DWs and CB700s are both made out of wood shaved into plies and held together with mystery glue, which drummers and manufacturers try to not think about or mention. Ads that say "100 percent maple shalls" are misleading. The shells aren't 100 percent maple because the glue forms a substantial chunk of their mass. They're really 100 percent maple composite shells, but that's another story.

The only difference between the DW and the CB700 shell is the quality of wood, the quality of the mystery glue, the choice of finishes and how much care goes into forming the plies into shells. The DW also has better-quality hardware and heads and a lot of marketing behind it. But on the whole, they have more in common than they have in difference.

Someone here not too long back had an Emperor's Clothes type post at http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24765. They said they really couldn't notice a whole lot of difference between different manufacturers. That's because they all make their drums they same way, only varying the materials and hardware slightly.

If you make drums like everyone does, they will sound like everyone else.

[Fat Elvis]

I don't know about that analogy, as they're made of different types of plastic and designed with completely different intentions. I would say DW is more like Lexus, CB700 more like Hyundai.

DWs and CB700s are both made out of wood shaved into plies and held together with mystery glue, which drummers and manufacturers try to not think about or mention. Ads that say "100 percent maple shalls" are misleading. The shells aren't 100 percent maple because the glue forms a substantial chunk of their mass. They're really 100 percent maple composite shells, but that's another story.

The only difference between the DW and the CB700 shell is the quality of wood, the quality of the mystery glue, the choice of finishes and how much care goes into forming the plies into shells. The DW also has better-quality hardware and heads and a lot of marketing behind it. But on the whole, they have more in common than they have in difference.

Someone here not too long back had an Emperor's Clothes type post. They said they really couldn't notice a whole lot of difference between different manufacturers. That's because they all make their drums they same way, only varying the materials and hardware slightly.

If you make drums like everyone does, they will sound like everyone else.

basically, to that analogy, all houses are made essentially the same as well. However I think people care a LOT who built it, the materials and the finish -- I doubt anyone would compare a mansion to a shack, even though they have a similar process and use the same types of materials.

The fact of the matter is that you carry this bias because you have an adgenda for solid and stave shells, even though this thread is about DW. I have a starclassic and a DW -- and i can CERTAINLY tell the difference in sound. So, just because one person said they cant tell the difference between ply shells, that should not go for everyone.

Im sure even a non-drummer could tell the difference in sound between a CB700 and a DW. The whole argument is rediculous. OBVIOUSLY you prefer solid and stave shells -- you have said this countless times... it gets old.

[Deathmetalconga]

Im sure even a non-drummer could tell the difference in sound between a CB700 and a DW. The whole argument is rediculous. OBVIOUSLY you prefer solid and stave shells -- you have said this countless times... it gets old.

The original poster asked us if we thought DWs were worth the money and I said "If you're going to spend that much money, get something other than plywood."

That's fully in keeping with the topic of the thread and what the starter of the thread asked. Yes, I have by biases and they appear from time to time on different threads about different topics, like just now. I may again offend people by discussing plywood, non-plywood, etc.. You are free to consider getting used to it.

[Mendozart]

I enjoy expensive toys. But, I buy them used. I own a BMW, which I never thought I would, but I work on it myself and save lots of money that way. The previous owner took very good care of it and I picked it up for 1/4 of what he paid for it. Same goes for my DW's. I found a set that the previous owner took very good care of and also paid about 1/3rd of what he paid for it. So, they are definitely worth the money to me.
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25352

[hateplow]

The rumors are true....DW kits are definately worth the money.
Don't let the haters tell you any differently.
The resale value of DWs are incredible. The attention to detail for such a "mass produced" kit is also amazing. Sure, there are kits that are as good, but they will cost you a lot as well.

[dw D]

Worth every penny.
...........................

[Jusstickinaround]

As far as your tuning statement, I have been playing DWs for five years, and have found the tuning range on DW drums just fine thank you! I have mine tuned in a nice middle of the ground area and they sound great! This statement is a rumor started by some DW hater! It was the same guy who started the rumor that went like this..."The only good heads for a Yamaha Recording series drum set are Remo Pinstripes." Is it true? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

And Ludwig has has bought off a number of top players especially in the country market! So don't make DW sound like they are pure evil and nobody else gives gear away!

Hey, here's a thought:

Don't ever play DW even if they offer you free stuff. This shouldn't be a problem since you think that they suck so much!

"And I know this guy who owns this drum shop......"

this argument sounds like one of those "I know a guy who knows a few people who know this other person" third grade rants! If you like what you play, then go play them but don't try to argue with me that DW is overrated because your drums don't get the respect that DWs are getting!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
I really think a lot of you DW owners are just trying to justify spending so much money. As far as my kit not getting the respect of DW's, well Gretsch has been around a lot longer and I think they get there share of respect. Think about it, how could a DW kit made of maple sound different than the Pacific kits they make with the same wood? Why, because one is American made and the other in Mexico? American hands can make maple sound better than Mexican hands, maybe some of the detail is superior but it's basically the same drum. I've played some Pacific and DW's and neither blew me away, not anymore than my Gretsch kit or the Pearl kit sitting next to it. Making drums is not rocket science and I think you're only paying for the right to say you own DW's because you think they get the most respect from people. They do get good resale, and I've noticed a lot on ebay, wonder why? Think about that for awhile.

[Skitch]

I really think a lot of you DW owners are just trying to justify spending so much money. As far as my kit not getting the respect of DW's, well Gretsch has been around a lot longer and I think they get there share of respect. Think about it, how could a DW kit made of maple sound different than the Pacific kits they make with the same wood? Why, because one is American made and the other in Mexico? American hands can make maple sound better than Mexican hands, maybe some of the detail is superior but it's basically the same drum. I've played some Pacific and DW's and neither blew me away, not anymore than my Gretsch kit or the Pearl kit sitting next to it. Making drums is not rocket science and I think you're only paying for the right to say you own DW's because you think they get the most respect from people. They do get good resale, and I've noticed a lot on ebay, wonder why? Think about that for awhile.

So by this rationale, your Gretsch drums aren't any better than the Pacific drums! There probably aren't many Gretsch kits for sale on Ebay because nobody is buying them new! Everyone wants the old Gretsch drums - vintage, baby!

And here's a neat little story about a buddy of mine who used to play for Reba Mcintyre. When he was starting out on the gig with Reba, he kept trying and kept trying to get in touch with Freg Gretsch to no avail! Finally, he got a an endorsement deal with Tama. About three months later, Reba was the opening act for Alabama. Fred Grestch and his wife were at the show. He walked up to my, friend Steve Short after he saw that Steve was playing Tama and asked," Why aren't you playing Gretsch?" Apparently, that great Gretsch sound was a an answering machine. Great customer service, Fred!! You guys need me to reload that gun and help me aim it at your other foot?

Now, here is my experience with DW. In 2001, I DROVE to Los Angeles, California. One day, I decided that I would head up to Oxnard to the DW plant. I asked for a tour of the plant and everyone bent over backwards to make certain that I got to see the place. My tour guide was a guy by the name of Steve Smith (not the Journey drummer!). They did this after hearing that I had come a distance and the office was understaffed as many were at PASIC at that time! I watched a guy build a drum! I saw the area with the shelves of raw drum shells waiting to be palced into an order after Timbre matching (by the way apparently Gretsch only cares to put a white drum with another white drum - IF they answer when you call).

I guess if you want a Keller shell drum, go to Gretsch or anyone else who buys their shell from a furniture manufacturer! What's the difference - the lug design?

Honestly, I don't dislike Gretsch at all - I think they make a fine drum. But top of the line Gretsch drums are just as expensive and sound no better than my DW set. So your argument holds no water!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Fat Elvis]

So by this rationale, your Gretsch drums aren't any better than the Pacific drums! There probably aren't many Gretsch kits for sale on Ebay because nobody is buying them new! Everyone wants the old Gretsch drums - vintage, baby!

And here's a neat little story about a buddy of mine who used to play for Reba Mcintyre. When he was starting out on the gig with Reba, he kept trying and kept trying to get in touch with Freg Gretsch to no avail! Finally, he got a an endorsement deal with Tama. About three months later, Reba was the opening act for Alabama. Fred Grestch and his wife were at the show. He walked up to my, friend Steve Short after he saw that Steve was playing Tama and asked," Why aren't you playing Gretsch?" Apparently, that great Gretsch sound was a an answering machine. Great customer service, Fred!! You guys need me to reload that gun and help me aim it at your other foot?

Now, here is my experience with DW. In 2001, I DROVE to Los Angeles, California. One day, I decided that I would head up to Oxnard to the DW plant. I asked for a tour of the plant and everyone bent over backwards to make certain that I got to see the place. My tour guide was a guy by the name of Steve Smith (not the Journey drummer!). They did this after hearing that I had come a distance and the office was understaffed as many were at PASIC at that time! I watched a guy build a drum! I saw the area with the shelves of raw drum shells waiting to be palced into an order after Timbre matching (by the way apparently Gretsch only cares to put a white drum with another white drum - IF they answer when you call).

I guess if you want a Keller shell drum, go to Gretsch or anyone else who buys their shell from a furniture manufacturer! What's the difference - the lug design?

Honestly, I don't dislike Gretsch at all - I think they make a fine drum. But top of the line Gretsch drums are just as expensive and sound no better than my DW set. So your argument holds no water!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

well put, mike. Excellent points.

[Legacyrik]

[QUOTE=DdubBdrum;139513]I have played identical size 24x18 bass drums, both Mapex Orion, and DW. With tunings basically the same, the DW sounded far better than the Orion. The tone was more full, had a deeper boom that really filled the room with the nice attack sound at the batter head. The Mapex just didn't have the same low thump that fills your ears. I don't know what it is exactly, but DW drums IMO, sound better than Orions if tuned to their full potential. Single ply batter heads really bring out the resonance and the rich tone in the DW bass drums. However, on the other hand I do think that you pay quite a bit for the name. In DW's defense, they had to get their fabulous reputation somewhere, right? They had to build that name that people now pay extra for. I'm not sure though if it's worth $1,000 extra.
QUOTE]


If used to it's full potential... PULEASE.

First off the the DW has reinforcement rings and the orion doesn't so they are going to sound different, guess it's just a preference thing.

You are definately paying to some extent for the name... But if that's not a problem then hey good for you.

[Legacyrik]

I play dw drums and I am getting a second dw kit in just a month from now. Lots of people don't take into consideration that DW is not mass manufactured. Mass manufactured drums will of course cost less. Going with a custom drum company like dw, which has an outstanding reputation, means you won't have to worry whether your drums will sound as good as they should for the money you spend. DW has extras you won't get with a mass manufactured kit, pitch matched shells, chrome, gold, satin, or black lugs, mini lugs or standard lugs, custom sizes, attention to detail, more finishes, and reinforcement rings.

Is DW worth the cash?

No, if all you are looking for is a kit in standard sizes with a standard finish.
Yes, if you are looking for a kit with more bling appeal, custom sizes, more choices for finishes, and a superior sound.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/Urahara7/000_0615.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/Urahara7/awesomedwkit.jpg

I'll buy that.
20202020202

[larlev]

I like the "Harley vs. Metric" analogy the best....When you buy DW it is in some ways a "status" thing.....but that's OK, there is nothing wrong with that at all...if you can afford them..buy them

You guys that own DW's don't need to justify anything to me or anyone else.....most people are just jealous anyway really......I guarantee that the folks bagging on DW would play one happily if they were given one free.....LOL

[Deathmetalconga]

I Think about it, how could a DW kit made of maple sound different than the Pacific kits they make with the same wood? Why, because one is American made and the other in Mexico? American hands can make maple sound better than Mexican hands, maybe some of the detail is superior but it's basically the same drum.

This is a good point. A lot of what drives up the cost of high-end drums is that they're made in the U.S., or another first-world country. Sure, you can get more drums for less money, but how do they cut corners? In many cases, the flip side of "More drums, less money" is "Lower wages, more damage." When you buy DW or another high-priced American/first world set, some of your money is going to comply with environmental regulations, safety rules, health insurance and retirement plans for the employees.

For some of us, it matters where and how the instrument was made. If it was manufactured (not merely handled) in a first-world country (US, Western Europe, Japan, Australia, Taiwan etc.), you can be sure it was made under regulations to protect both the workers and the environment. That is one more thing that adds to the cost of the product.

[Ozzy Biz]

Ultimately, isn't it just personal preference? Sure, you can save a few dollars buy buying a Mapex Orion instead, but if it's a DW that you're after, you won't be entirely happy until you have a DW. It's all relative. To the Yamaha enthusiast, a DW is a drum kit that's high quality but comes with a price tag for the brand name & reputation. But if you happen to be that person that falls in love with and purchases a DW kit at retail price, can you be blamed for believing that it is worth the money? Sure, you could have bought a kit of equal quality that sounds slightly different for less money, but unless you are happy with the product it's not worth the money.

For example, take Deathmetalconga's kit. Ok, it's rare, it sounds amazing, it's made in an environmentally friendly manner and comes with a great reputation. But it's only going to be worth the $5k US (or whatever it costs) if you feel that it's worth it. To someone who purely desires a nice-sounding kit regardless of brand, shell material or type, it may not be worth the extra cash to get a solid shelled ironwood kit. But to an obvious enthusiast (like DMC), it is worth every penny, and then some.

I think to try and judge the value of the DW brand in regard to the price of their product based on the opinions of those who don't own or haven't owned the product is completely irrelevant; because you are talking about something that you don't have the necessary information about to make an un-bias decision that can be taken into account by the member s of this forum. It's the same as me deciding that a Porsche 911 is just as good a car as a Subraru Sti, even though I've never owned either cars.

Now, I don't care if you feel that a DW kit relates to a Porsche or a Kia, the outcome is the same. A DW is a high-end kit that comes with a high-end price tag. If you can't afford a ferrari, don't go to a ferrari dealer and comment on their cars. If you can't afford a DW, the same applies. I'm sick of hearing comments about this topic; because they're all completely bias. If I made a political comment about the war in Iraq, any above average IQ bearing person would dismiss it as I have the political intelligence of a Doberman. The same digression should be common policy among drummerworld members, especially in regard to posts and threads like this.

If you own a DW and honestly believe that it was money well spent, then it was money well spent. If you own a Yamaha Maple Custom and have never owned a DW but feel that they aren't worth the their cost, your opinion is irrelevant. The posts in this thread that have the possibility of actually addressing the topic in a manner which is plausible come only from those who have or once did own a DW kit. The rest are as useful as tits on a bull.

[Deathmetalconga]

Ultimately, isn't it just personal preference? Sure, you can save a few dollars buy buying a Mapex Orion instead, but if it's a DW that you're after, you won't be entirely happy until you have a DW. It's all relative. To the Yamaha enthusiast, a DW is a drum kit that's high quality but comes with a price tag for the brand name & reputation. But if you happen to be that person that falls in love with and purchases a DW kit at retail price, can you be blamed for believing that it is worth the money? Sure, you could have bought a kit of equal quality that sounds slightly different for less money, but unless you are happy with the product it's not worth the money.

For example, take Deathmetalconga's kit. Ok, it's rare, it sounds amazing, it's made in an environmentally friendly manner and comes with a great reputation. But it's only going to be worth the $5k US (or whatever it costs) if you feel that it's worth it. To someone who purely desires a nice-sounding kit regardless of brand, shell material or type, it may not be worth the extra cash to get a solid shelled ironwood kit. But to an obvious enthusiast (like DMC), it is worth every penny, and then some.

I think to try and judge the value of the DW brand in regard to the price of their product based on the opinions of those who don't own or haven't owned the product is completely irrelevant; because you are talking about something that you don't have the necessary information about to make an un-bias decision that can be taken into account by the member s of this forum. It's the same as me deciding that a Porsche 911 is just as good a car as a Subraru Sti, even though I've never owned either cars.

Now, I don't care if you feel that a DW kit relates to a Porsche or a Kia, the outcome is the same. A DW is a high-end kit that comes with a high-end price tag. If you can't afford a ferrari, don't go to a ferrari dealer and comment on their cars. If you can't afford a DW, the same applies. I'm sick of hearing comments about this topic; because they're all completely bias. If I made a political comment about the war in Iraq, any above average IQ bearing person would dismiss it as I have the political intelligence of a Doberman. The same digression should be common policy among drummerworld members, especially in regard to posts and threads like this.

If you own a DW and honestly believe that it was money well spent, then it was money well spent. If you own a Yamaha Maple Custom and have never owned a DW but feel that they aren't worth the their cost, your opinion is irrelevant. The posts in this thread that have the possibility of actually addressing the topic in a manner which is plausible come only from those who have or once did own a DW kit. The rest are as useful as tits on a bull.

Very valid points. If you really want something and only one manufacturer offers it, there is only one thing you can do - buy their product. It could be the sound, construction, exclusivity, choice of finishes, hardware, mystique, reputation or who endorses it. All these factors and more motivate buying decisions and irrational, subjective factors are just as important as rational, objective factors.

Sure, a Timex keeps time just as well as Rolex, but some people want a Rolex for more than just keeping time.

[illustrator X]

DWs and CB700s are both made out of wood shaved into plies and held together with mystery glue, which drummers and manufacturers try to not think about or mention. Ads


Woa! wait a sec. You can't compare drums and say they are plywood and basically the same thing. A drum is a percision crafted music instrument. Like a comparing a crap violin to a stratavarius hand made masterpiece. Percision cut earing edges, shell molding technology, scarf joint techniques, the quaility of hand selected wood, the proper aging of wood, manufacturing in low humitiy/proper tempature...the list goes on and on.
If you play metal, and put thick pinstipes on your drums then yea you might as well pound on a fiberglass shell or a miked carboard box. But we are talking about a thin maple shell, it isn't the choice for all styles of music......but you can't compare hi-end kits to a cb700 plywood drum that is hardly qualifies as a musical instrument.

[Deathmetalconga]

DWs and CB700s are both made out of wood shaved into plies and held together with mystery glue, which drummers and manufacturers try to not think about or mention. Ads


Woa! wait a sec. You can't compare drums and say they are plywood and basically the same thing. A drum is a percision crafted music instrument. Like a comparing a crap violin to a stratavarius hand made masterpiece. Percision cut earing edges, shell molding technology, scarf joint techniques, the quaility of hand selected wood, the proper aging of wood, manufacturing in low humitiy/proper tempature...the list goes on and on.
If you play metal, and put thick pinstipes on your drums then yea you might as well pound on a fiberglass shell or a miked carboard box. But we are talking about a thin maple shell, it isn't the choice for all styles of music......but you can't compare hi-end kits to a cb700 plywood drum that is hardly qualifies as a musical instrument.

You left out the part of my post that said, "The only difference between the DW and the CB700 shell is the quality of wood, the quality of the mystery glue, the choice of finishes and how much care goes into forming the plies into shells. The DW also has better-quality hardware and heads and a lot of marketing behind it. But on the whole, they have more in common than they have in difference."

They are still plies of wood held together with mystery glue. One just uses better materials, manufacturing techniques, scarf joints, hand-selected wood, better aged wood, controlled humidity ... the list goes on and on, as you say. 95 percent of all Western trap kit drums are plywood - some of great quality and some of bad quality.

To stay on topic, my suggestion to the thread originator is that if someone is going to consider dropping a lot of money on a DW set, they should expand their view to non-plywood drums, which can be pretty expensive and offer unusual sounds and features.

[Mikecore]

Only if you can do no better. If you think you can build a better drum, then why pay Don and John to slap 'em together for you? I think they are fine drums, but I am too poor (and WAY too impatient) to be looking that high up in the catalog right now. Some PDP's might fill the bill in the meantime.

[Ozzy Biz]

Some PDP's might fill the bill in the meantime.

Noooooo!! Don't give in to buying cheaper drums just you want them new and now. Buy used if you can't buy the real deal (i.e. any high-end kit) outright.

[Skitch]

This is a good point. A lot of what drives up the cost of high-end drums is that they're made in the U.S., or another first-world country. Sure, you can get more drums for less money, but how do they cut corners? In many cases, the flip side of "More drums, less money" is "Lower wages, more damage." When you buy DW or another high-priced American/first world set, some of your money is going to comply with environmental regulations, safety rules, health insurance and retirement plans for the employees.

For some of us, it matters where and how the instrument was made. If it was manufactured (not merely handled) in a first-world country (US, Western Europe, Japan, Australia, Taiwan etc.), you can be sure it was made under regulations to protect both the workers and the environment. That is one more thing that adds to the cost of the product.

Excellent points!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Mikecore]

Noooooo!! Don't give in to buying cheaper drums just you want them new and now. Buy used if you can't buy the real deal (i.e. any high-end kit) outright.

Nice though this would seem, there are a few things I am considering here.
1. The quality of "cheap" kits has improved dramatically in the last decade or so, even to the point that they feature design and construction concepts once reserved for higher end kits. If they are not using maple for the shells, then they (mainstream drum makers) are at least trying to get something better than the luaun/lamin/mysterywood shell still found on 250 dollar "student" kits.

2. The sheer size of the drumkit I'm cooking up here places a high-end kit well out of my reach. We're talking Grant Collins/Terry Bozzio sized here.

3. I have looked for cheaper deals on such high quality gear for other nefarious purposes, and hope still springs eternal (I don't need a Collins/Bozzio styled rig for playing with my band, for example).

4. Limited though the line of PDPs may be, I know enough about building or modifying drums to get what I want out of them, and the deals you can get on older Pacific kits for the sake of the hardware are worth the trouble (for me, anyway).

5. I'm no Terry Bozzio, so I can't justify buying steak for what might turn into a hamburger of a drumming experiment. It's often better to do this big drumkit stuff on the cheap just in case it never pans out.

[illustrator X]

Everytime I sample kits, the DW's always stand out from all other kits to me. I tuned up a 5x14 10+6snare and it was the snare sound I have been after forever, and I have owned alot of snares.
So I bit the bullet and ordered a 7peice hard satin finish rich red fade, knocked me back 5k. OUCH! that hurts and that was the best possible price I could get on them. So now for the 5 month wait, then I will chime in with a more informed opinion.
What do you guys think of the finish? I have two months wiggle room where I could change my mind. I told them to use this tom pic as reference though It won't have the exotic curly maple ply....um another 650.00 bucks wasn't worth it.

[cornelius]

That's a cool color. I have a Candy Black Fade Curly Maple kit in shiny lacquer and I really like the way the lacquer finish looks. I didn't think I'd ever want more than a sparkle finish-ply, type of finish, but when you see these stain finishes in person, they look pretty nice.

[deano]

Kudos to you Illustrator X. An absolutely beautiful finish my friend. I have a cranberry fade Pearl SMX something similar to that. Great choice man. Are they maple?

[Skitch]

Everytime I sample kits, the DW's always stand out from all other kits to me. I tuned up a 5x14 10+6snare and it was the snare sound I have been after forever, and I have owned alot of snares.
So I bit the bullet and ordered a 7peice hard satin finish rich red fade, knocked me back 5k. OUCH! that hurts and that was the best possible price I could get on them. So now for the 5 month wait, then I will chime in with a more informed opinion.
What do you guys think of the finish? I have two months wiggle room where I could change my mind. I told them to use this tom pic as reference though It won't have the exotic curly maple ply....um another 650.00 bucks wasn't worth it.

I think that you will be pleasantly suprised in 5 months!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[illustrator X]

Yes I ordered the maple shells, 8ply 6ply re-rings, toms fast sizes except the 16" went for an extra inch depth and vlt. 14x5 snare 10+6.

I know it shouldn't matter, but I am all over the place with the color/finish selection. I should have gone to Namm, when you see a finish in person then you know what you like. I have been looking at photo's from Namm to make sure that majic finish isn't eluding me, problem is I like so many!

Thanks for the positive support, my wife doesn't seem to understand like my fellow drum addicts ;)

Cornellius,
Is this your color!? Because that is another finish I am considering, I like the satin finish with the satin hardware, and it is killer in laquer as well.

[cornelius]

Satin with satin is hip. Here's pic of a tom and part of the snare on my kit- the way the light is hitting, you can see the grain on the snare better. I really like the finish because it blends well into the natural color of maple.

I just received my kit two months ago, and I was also supposed to go to NAMM so I could check out the new Jazz series and see all of the finishes - picking out the finish is not easy.

VLT is the way to go - have you tried the Birch VLTs? They are ridiculous. The maples are cool too - I ended up with the Jazz Series.

[illustrator X]

Ok now I wan't what you have, looks just awsome.
I like the look of the diecast hoops on the jazz series.

I emailed a DW rep requesting photos of the wall of drums at Namm and
at the factory. Hopefuly he comes through.!

[illustrator X]

Well here is what I ended up with, 7 piece maple kit kurillian birch exotic ply laquer finish. Cost: 5,700.00, worth it? See you in October!

[44Ronin]

I find the reference and comparisons to cars funny and absurd at the same time. Cars are souless uninspired machines.

Drums are musical instruments , of which requires a human to define some of its sound and characteristics.

VLT (is nothing special)

[chenjc1979]

Is DW worth the money? In the end it's very subjective. If you can't be satified with with any drum unless you OWN a DW... then may be it's worth it. But from playing experience or quality point of view, there isn't a need. There is a HUGE false image that DW and Mapex is giving out. In reality, DW and Mapex is just throwing bunch of money in advertising. Sure, DW quality are good, but is it worth it? IF it's ANY BETTER AT all, it's probably VERY marginal. If you are really looking for something that's worth the money, you are better off without DW or MAPEX.

[Jusstickinaround]

I was at GC the other day, got to play a DW kit and a Tama Starclassic. I'm not really a big Tama guy, but it blew the DW's away, in fact it was the best sounding kit they had set up. The Tama was at least a grande less than the DW, plus it looked cooler with a purple sparkle finish. Someone had an anology about owning a Porsch as opposed to a Subaru, so he's basically saying Tama, Pearl, Mapex, and any other non DW kit is a Subaru while DW with all it's hype is a Porsch. I think he meant it as an insult, but actually being a well made drum with a smaller price tag is a great thing, not bad.
Back to the original question,"are they worth it?" In my opinion......no.

[Mendozart]

Personally I don't think any high end kit is worth the price. I would rather buy a well kept used drum set any day and save mucho $. I bought a 6 piece DW set in excellent shape, for $1600. Was it worth it to me? Hell yes! About the only analogy to cars is I would never pay for a new car either. Buy a well kept used car and save mucho $ also. BTW illustratorX, congratulations, that is an AWESOME drum set you're getting.

[cornelius]

Congrats on making the order for your new Deedubs. It's going to serve you well for years, and unlike so many of today's kits - will never go out of style. As a visual artist, a new custom kit was a good move. I do agree on buying used - I've done it with high end audio gear, and my car.

[illustrator X]

I admit other kits on the floor usually look better than DW and even higher quality. I was always turned off by dw's thin flanged hoops, they just looked chincy. But they are designed for weight and functionality. Because of that they tune up quick an easy and keep the toms open sounding. My die cast hoops on my mmx kit have a limited tuning range, choke out quick, and have a small sweet spot.
I didn't like the vtl in the toms except the 14"16" which sound powerful. I got those sizes with built in bottom. Main difference compared to straight up vtl is they still have re-rings and the virticle ply is only on the interior.
But what really wins me over to dw, the snares sound better than anything I have ever heard, and I have alot of Yamaha and pearl snares. But that 10+6 snare gives me goosebumps.
Finally, DW does some magicall things with bearing edges.

[Drumowner]

I admit other kits on the floor usually look better than DW and even higher quality. I was always turned off by dw's thin flanged hoops, they just looked chincy. But they are designed for weight and functionality. Because of that they tune up quick an easy and keep the toms open sounding. My die cast hoops on my mmx kit have a limited tuning range, choke out quick, and have a small sweet spot.
I didn't like the vtl in the toms except the 14"16" which sound powerful. I got those sizes with built in bottom. Main difference compared to straight up vtl is they still have re-rings and the virticle ply is only on the interior.
But what really wins me over to dw, the snares sound better than anything I have ever heard, and I have alot of Yamaha and prearl snares. But that 10+6 snare gives me goosebumps.
Finally, DW does some magicall things with bearing edges.

Thin hoops??? I've never seen a thicker trip flange hoop...I've looked.
I'm happy they thickened their STM mounts in 2006, the old ones sucked(IMO).
VLT is only available on 14 and larger toms.(info from DW's site)
I agree with you on the snares...for years I hated they way DW snares sounded...my ignorance is what lead me to that conclusion.
Thankfully my wife knows better and bought me a 14x6 10&6 snare...damn did I feel stupid for downing the DW snares for all that time..........I'm currently waiting on a 13x5 6&10 to go with the 14".

[Fat Elvis]

I was at GC the other day, got to play a DW kit and a Tama Starclassic. I'm not really a big Tama guy, but it blew the DW's away, in fact it was the best sounding kit they had set up. The Tama was at least a grande less than the DW, plus it looked cooler with a purple sparkle finish. Someone had an anology about owning a Porsch as opposed to a Subaru, so he's basically saying Tama, Pearl, Mapex, and any other non DW kit is a Subaru while DW with all it's hype is a Porsch. I think he meant it as an insult, but actually being a well made drum with a smaller price tag is a great thing, not bad.
Back to the original question,"are they worth it?" In my opinion......no.

that was me -- and no it was not an insult. The fact is that I own a DW as well as a Starclassic and a Ludwig Classic Maple. All are great kits -- all have a different sound than one another. All of them are paid for. So which one would i sell last? The DW. Which would I sell first? The Ludwig.

[zambizzi]

I own two of them...one over 10 yrs. old and one made last year (2006)...they're fantastic...they sound great...and I've yet to be as taken w/ any other kit I've played.

They may have the same types of practices when making their drums but they have some kind of special touch...not sure how to explain it. They have a tone that I can't find in other kits...plywood, solid, whatever. They sing...they're *melodic*.

And...they don't depreciate in value if they're well taken care of. I'll get just as much as I paid for my kits, if I should ever decide to sell them.

No one matches their quality, yet.

[Gibbersticks]

How would a set of Sonor SQ2 drums stack up against a set of DW's? Two of the most expensive drums out there. Which is better?

[illustrator X]

Thin hoops??? I've never seen a thicker trip flange hoop...I've looked
Pearls superhoop 2's are much, much, thicker. DW's hoops actually change in thickness and mass depending on the tom they are on. Example, the 16" hoop is thicker than the 10" hoop.

VLT is only available on 14 and larger toms
DW offers all VTL kits in brich and maple. All toms including snare, consist of all ply's vertical and without reinforcement hoops.
"Built in bottom" is standard on all floor toms and bass drum with all other kits. Built in bottom means the only vertical ply is the innermost ply, and there is still a reinforcement hoop.

[Fat Elvis]

How would a set of Sonor SQ2 drums stack up against a set of DW's? Two of the most expensive drums out there. Which is better?

never played or even seen an SQ2. The look every bit as good as the finest DW's made.

[gmrakich]

DW......Don't worry :^ P Be happy

[larlev]

How would a set of Sonor SQ2 drums stack up against a set of DW's? Two of the most expensive drums out there. Which is better?

HaHa.....DW's are great........but an SQ2 is night and day different than a DW

SQ2's are the true high-end standard...IMO

[Jusstickinaround]

that was me -- and no it was not an insult. The fact is that I own a DW as well as a Starclassic and a Ludwig Classic Maple. All are great kits -- all have a different sound than one another. All of them are paid for. So which one would i sell last? The DW. Which would I sell first? The Ludwig.

Maybe are hearing is different, but my vintage Ludwig kit is a superior sounding kit to any DW's I've heard. I know you guys love your DW's, but they ARE NOT the best kits ever made, in fact I don't even think they are in the top five. If I had a list it would be Ludwig, Gretcsh, Slingerland, Rogers, Yamaha, Sonor, Tama, Pearl, Premier and DW. It's only my opinion, that's all.

[Porker69]

Personally, I dont think their prices are justifed. While they make great kits, they dont sound $2000-$3000 better than other kits, especially when that money can buy me cymbals. I would never buy a new one unless I had alot of money layin around, but I think they are worth their used prices.

[Ozzy Biz]

Maybe are hearing is different, but my vintage Ludwig kit is a superior sounding kit to any DW's I've heard. I know you guys love your DW's, but they ARE NOT the best kits ever made, in fact I don't even think they are in the top five. If I had a list it would be Ludwig, Gretcsh, Slingerland, Rogers, Yamaha, Sonor, Tama, Pearl, Premier and DW.

Where is there a documented list of the best kits ever made? It's obvious that you're a Vintage fan, but your claims are pretty opinionated and very bias.
Also, you have to define what you're talking about when you say 'best'. Do you mean highest structural or finish quality, or perhaps that the kit fit's it's intended purpose better than anything else on the market. Think about it, a Pulse or CB is a crappy kit. But it serves it's intended purpose exactly; a cheap kit that makes an acceptable noise for people new to drums or low on cash. Look at any modern high-end manufacturer; their top-line products are intended to make the purest, clearest tone, project extremely well, be 100% structurally sound and look amazing. Do they do all of this? Yes, but possibly not as effectively than a Pulse meets it's design requirements. This is the reason Toyota are gradually taking over the world market in the automotive industry, simple cars that do what they should more effectively than any other company and with less probems. So maybe none of your list are technically the 'best' companies going around either. They've all had (and have) their problems.

However, how many of us here or anywhere in the world aspire to one day own a Pulse (or have automotive fantasies about a Corolla). They do their job, but the desireability is severly lacking. One must remember however, that desire is a personal thing and varies from person to person, affected by past experiences and influences.

And yes JSA, your hearing is different. Age alone has quite an impact, over the years a persons ability to hear high frequency sounds decreases quite significantly. Plus that unless you stand in the same spot in the same room with the same kit, same heads, same tuning and same person playing the kit you are going to hear things differently, even if they are minute difference.

Lastly, and I like to think I'm relativey unbiased here, I'd say DW have had less structural/construction and management problems than Ludwig even when one considers the large difference in company age. (For the record, my next kit will most likely be a Ludwig)

These are just my opinion, the same as your posts are simply yours. Hope I haven't gone too far off topic here.

Cam

[Jusstickinaround]

[QUOTE=Ozzy Biz;320911]Where is there a documented list of the best kits ever made? It's obvious that you're a Vintage fan, but your claims are pretty opinionated and very bias.
Also, you have to define what you're talking about when you say 'best'. Do you mean highest structural or finish quality, or perhaps that the kit fit's it's intended purpose better than anything else on the market. Think about it, a Pulse or CB is a crappy kit. But it serves it's intended purpose exactly; a cheap kit that makes an acceptable noise for people new to drums or low on cash. Look at any modern high-end manufacturer; their top-line products are intended to make the purest, clearest tone, project extremely well, be 100% structurally sound and look amazing. Do they do all of this? Yes, but possibly not as effectively than a Pulse meets it's design requirements. This is the reason Toyota are gradually taking over the world market in the automotive industry, simple cars that do what they should more effectively than any other company and with less probems. So maybe none of your list are technically the 'best' companies going around either. They've all had (and have) their problems.

However, how many of us here or anywhere in the world aspire to one day own a Pulse (or have automotive fantasies about a Corolla). They do their job, but the desireability is severly lacking. One must remember however, that desire is a personal thing and varies from person to person, affected by past experiences and influences.

And yes JSA, your hearing is different. Age alone has quite an impact, over the years a persons ability to hear high frequency sounds decreases quite significantly. Plus that unless you stand in the same spot in the same room with the same kit, same heads, same tuning and same person playing the kit you are going to hear things differently, even if they are minute difference.

Lastly, and I like to think I'm relativey unbiased here, I'd say DW have had less structural/construction and management problems than Ludwig even when one considers the large difference in company age. (For the record, my next kit will most likely be a Ludwig)

These are just my opinion, the same as your posts are simply yours. Hope I haven't gone too far off topic here.

What is with you guys and all the car anlogies? I thought we talking about drums. I put the drum companies from 1-10 in the order I thought they belong, the key word is I, you may have a different order. I'll admit after years of playing I have lost a bit of hearing, but I can still tell the difference in drum sounds. Yes I do love vintage kits, but in my first post I compared the DW's with a new Tama kit, I think I just get a little tired of hearing how great DW's sound. Whenever I play one and compare it to another kit I don't hear a superior sound. I tend to believe that people who buy them are trying to justify the big price tag. DW's are nice kits, but I wouldn't buy one if the kit next to it sounds better for a lot less.

[Ozzy Biz]

Car analogies are just easy to use and easy to understand.
As for the hearing thing, volume sure does effect (or create) hearing loss over the years, but the degradation of the ears ability to pick up high frequency sounds is a natural thing that happens to everyone just due to everyday noises.
You said "they ARE NOT the best kits ever made" which implies that there is some sort of documentation or something which ranks the kits, or at least scientifically proves this 'fact' you've stated with such authority. From a construction and finish point of view, they are superior to your Ludwigs, and they should be. 30 years of advancements in materials understanding and construction knowledge should (and does) make a difference. Sonically, however, is another issue, one which connot be measured, ranked or graded in any sort of way which is not affected by the preferences and opinions of the individual. It's all in the ear of the beholder, so to say.
I'm a fan of the old-school warm, woody sound of a vintage kit with coated heads, as are you. I'm also quite fond of more modern sound; say clear G2s on a recording custom or for the sake of this discussion, a DW maple. We should have just closed this thread with the comment that drum sounds are personal, and that a drum kit (regardless of make/model) is oonly worth the cash if the owner of it believes so.

Cam

[illustrator X]

ozziebiz, nice posts, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Back to responding to the original thread question. Personally I feel DW's sound a little better than all the other top of the line kits I have played. Is that slight difference worth the extra 2k a DW kit will cost. Well, to each is own. Personally, I enjoy playing drums to such a degree that I want the best, pretty much regardless of cost.

[Jusstickinaround]

Car analogies are just easy to use and easy to understand.
As for the hearing thing, volume sure does effect (or create) hearing loss over the years, but the degradation of the ears ability to pick up high frequency sounds is a natural thing that happens to everyone just due to everyday noises.
You said "they ARE NOT the best kits ever made" which implies that there is some sort of documentation or something which ranks the kits, or at least scientifically proves this 'fact' you've stated with such authority. From a construction and finish point of view, they are superior to your Ludwigs, and they should be. 30 years of advancements in materials understanding and construction knowledge should (and does) make a difference. Sonically, however, is another issue, one which connot be measured, ranked or graded in any sort of way which is not affected by the preferences and opinions of the individual. It's all in the ear of the beholder, so to say.
I'm a fan of the old-school warm, woody sound of a vintage kit with coated heads, as are you. I'm also quite fond of more modern sound; say clear G2s on a recording custom or for the sake of this discussion, a DW maple. We should have just closed this thread with the comment that drum sounds are personal, and that a drum kit (regardless of make/model) is oonly worth the cash if the owner of it believes so.

Cam

Well if you mean the DW screws use a phillips screwdriver, then yes DW's are superior. The construction of the actual drum is no different other than the bearing edges of the Ludwigs were cut rounder or the wrap could be coming apart because it is an old drum. The inside of my shell looks like it was made yesterday, the maple is beautiful and it still retains that maple smell. Let's see how some DW's stand up after 30 + years of playing..

[larlev]

Wow. This just keeps going and going and....... I think if want dw's and they offer the sound, finish options, and hardware you desire, (and you're not going to go without food for a month in order to get them), then yes they are worth it. This seems to have turned into a place to voice your opinion that dw's ARE NOT the best drums and to compare them to Ludwig, etc. ???? This thread is titled "Drum Workshop Worth The Cash?" right?

Sincerly,


It really depends on HOW much money you actually make....for me I wouldn't go hungry in the least.....age has a big factor in deciding if they are worth it or not...

What's funny is...the quote I got for a 5 piece DW was no more expensive than many of the other companies.....so I still don't get this "is it worth it crap"

[Ozzy Biz]

Well if you mean the DW screws use a phillips screwdriver, then yes DW's are superior. The construction of the actual drum is no different other than the bearing edges of the Ludwigs were cut rounder or the wrap could be coming apart because it is an old drum. The inside of my shell looks like it was made yesterday, the maple is beautiful and it still retains that maple smell. Let's see how some DW's stand up after 30 + years of playing..

If the only advancement in 30 years was the move from flat-head to phillips screwdrivers I'd be pretty worried about the state of the industry, most people in it and society in general. Thankfully, that is not the case.

I mean that the construction methods are more advanced, producing thinner, stronger shells. It's the same with all modern high-end drums. Why do you think reinforcement rings on the inside of the shell are now an option for a different sound, as opposed to being a necessity to keep the shell in-round? The maple used is most likely more consistant than the maple used back in the 60s and 70s. Their hardware is also more rigid and stable than the old vintage stuff.

I'm not saying that vintage gear is inferior, just because every companies marketing gurus say it's obselete. The reality is that it's not. Going back to a car anology (because I know you love them... haha); an original '65 Corvette Stingray is no less a car than the '07 Corvette. Technically it's a bit inferior, however it has class and a feel about it which the new model simply cannot replicate. They still do the same job, would be a blast to drive and turn heads, but most likely different heads.

I'd love a round-badge Gretsch or an early 70's Ludwig, but the used market down under is as bad as England is in the rugby at the moment ;) so I'll most likely be buying new. Both great, for slightly different reasons. Both accomplish the same end result, but with a bit more flair in certain areas.

[Urahara Kisuke]

i agree with harry. basically it all comes down to personal preference. Many will say their drums sound just as good.... even some will say their drums sound better. For some -- including me -- its sort of like this:

I drive a porsche. I always wanted one, i have dreamed about it since i was a kid. I am lucky enough to own one. Many people share this dream. Now suburu makes a fast ass car -- it can beat my car. It has well over 300 hp and all wheel drive. It is also less than 1/2 the price of my car new. Apples to apples, you can say that the suburu is better -- its faster, grips the road better, etc.

No kid is going to sleep dreaming of owning a suburu.

There is something to be said for the porsche name, its quality, its mystery and its exclusivity. Its got a great design, great performance, a great name - no matter what suburu produces, it will never approach it. Many would agree the same can be said for DW.

food for thought. By the way, i also play a DW. :)

I love this analogy. Very true. I own both my dream kits, a DW kit and a C & C kit. C & C has been called the porche of drums as well, ha ha. The DW I got really really cheap though. I got ridiculously lucky with that purchase.

[Unix]

In 30 years what as been new to the industry, ohhh! I know, finishes (like polyestere and polyurethene as been upgrade to a extreme performance point), maybe the glue too, These day glue and laquer are choose for their tonal quality and strengh.

I would say if you compare a DW with a Mapex Orion, yes it worth the money. If you would take time to analyse, you would find that the finish, the hardware the construction is better. By the way the Sonor designer serie is way priced too...

When you are one of the world leading company, that give you some previlege, and no one is force to buy their product anyway. I would be interested to know what is your scientifical technique to claim that they are too pricey...in many case jalousy is affecting judgements.

If some of you wanna smell real maple I'll be happy to help, what you smell from the inside of a drum is not wood smell but laquer smell lol...

[cwignall]

This may sound like a stupid statment but in my oppinion the actuall drum kit is a small part in this arguement - obviously nicer wood is a nicer sound etc. But as has been said it all comes down to the drummer.

keeping on the car theme people may say "i dont like that road. its a very fast dangerous road"
Its not the road thats fast - its the people that drive like idiots that are fast and dangerous.

Also a new driver in a Porche against a proffesional driver in a nissan: Porche on a straight would no doubt whoop the nissan - thats down to the car - but round a track id be odds on to say that the Pro in the nissan would probably cross the line first.

I have a mapex m birch (£600) my friend has a £4000 Sonnor kit. To tap his bass drum is a bit meatier than mine. He has a nicer finish as you would expect from that price tag. Yet its me that my band preffer 'cos the way i use my drums is (in their oppinion) better!

my 0.02$

[Ozzy Biz]

keeping on the car theme people may say "i dont like that road. its a very fast dangerous road"
Its not the road thats fast - its the people that drive like idiots that are fast and dangerous.

Is this an attack on the WFD and speed metal guys?...

[Raymond Bloom]

Well, I looke at it this way:

for example: Yamaha Maple Custom (Subaru analogy), DW (Porsche), Sonor SQ2 (Limited Edition Lamborghini) :-)

[-tarek-]

Are DW's great drums? Hell yes they are. But $5000 for a kick and 4 toms? Come on now!

I was actually ready to buy a DW kit. Had a Red Gum exotic in 22x18 10x8 12x9 14x11 16x16 floor on lay-away and was ready to pay it off and take it home! But, because I was spending soooo much money on a kit, I figured I should be absolutely sure it's what I want. So I compared it next to a Starclassic (both maple and bubinga), a Gretsch Renown, a Yamaha Oak Custom, an Allegra (custom drums made right here in Portland, OR), and a Pearl Masters Birch. I know everyone fairly well at my local Guitar Center, so they let me try different heads on everything to compare more acurately. The set I ended up taking home? The Pearl. Honestly. And it's even a wrapped finish! I hate wraps, especially glittery gold ones (bronze glass), but this kit sounded so amazing, I dealt with it. The bass drum is by far more powerful, resonant, and boomy than the DW. The toms are more pronounced and clear and don't bleed together when doing fast fills up or down them. The Pearl has a very seperated, full, open tone, whereas the DW sounded like a high end drum machine. It sounded exactly like you'd expect a nice kit to sound, no uniqueness. The Pearl sounds as good quality wise, but with more character. I'll admit, I liked the DW 16x16 better, because it had the low enhanced vertical grain option, so the thing boomed like a cannon, but overall, the Pearl was my top choice. And it was only $1820 for 22x18 virgin 10x8 12x9 14x14 floor 16x16 floor. Can't be beat for the money.

Oh yeah, the other kits...

The Yamaha was very tinny and dead without much resonance. Not my cup of tea.

The Starclassics were both very nice actually, but I didn't like the bass drums much. The higher toms on the bubinga kit sounded kinda odd, almost sounded dampened.

The Gretsch was nice but not powerful enough. The floors and bass were just weak.

The Allegra sounded amazing, but it was used and only had one rack tom for $3000.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Try everything before buying new kits, and don't bias by name like most drummers might. I wasn't partial at all to Pearl until I actually gave them a chance.

[Mr. Brownstone]

Don't know if they're worth the cash (if you have the cash not sure why it matters), but man I love the sound of DW snares.

[Jusstickinaround]

Are DW's great drums? Hell yes they are. But $5000 for a kick and 4 toms? Come on now!

I was actually ready to buy a DW kit. Had a Red Gum exotic in 22x18 10x8 12x9 14x11 16x16 floor on lay-away and was ready to pay it off and take it home! But, because I was spending soooo much money on a kit, I figured I should be absolutely sure it's what I want. So I compared it next to a Starclassic (both maple and bubinga), a Gretsch Renown, a Yamaha Oak Custom, an Allegra (custom drums made right here in Portland, OR), and a Pearl Masters Birch. I know everyone fairly well at my local Guitar Center, so they let me try different heads on everything to compare more acurately. The set I ended up taking home? The Pearl. Honestly. And it's even a wrapped finish! I hate wraps, especially glittery gold ones (bronze glass), but this kit sounded so amazing, I dealt with it. The bass drum is by far more powerful, resonant, and boomy than the DW. The toms are more pronounced and clear and don't bleed together when doing fast fills up or down them. The Pearl has a very seperated, full, open tone, whereas the DW sounded like a high end drum machine. It sounded exactly like you'd expect a nice kit to sound, no uniqueness. The Pearl sounds as good quality wise, but with more character. I'll admit, I liked the DW 16x16 better, because it had the low enhanced vertical grain option, so the thing boomed like a cannon, but overall, the Pearl was my top choice. And it was only $1820 for 22x18 virgin 10x8 12x9 14x14 floor 16x16 floor. Can't be beat for the money.

Oh yeah, the other kits...

The Yamaha was very tinny and dead without much resonance. Not my cup of tea.

The Starclassics were both very nice actually, but I didn't like the bass drums much. The higher toms on the bubinga kit sounded kinda odd, almost sounded dampened.

The Gretsch was nice but not powerful enough. The floors and bass were just weak.

The Allegra sounded amazing, but it was used and only had one rack tom for $3000.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Try everything before buying new kits, and don't bias by name like most drummers might. I wasn't partial at all to Pearl until I actually gave them a chance.

Man, this thread is getting very interesting, I couldn't agree more though. When I was at GC I tried the DW and Tama kit, and if I was in the market for a new kit, the Tama would have won easily over the DW's. The Tama had a much smaller price tag, but they sounded and looked better than the DW's. Don't go for the hype, go for the sound, and possibly save yourself some dough..

[zambizzi]

Ha...sheesh! I guess I'll be the only defender of DW in this thread...fine by me.

I did the same "sound test" when I bought my kit...but I spent some time tuning a few different kits and trying different sounds. I could not find a kit in the store that could be tuned the way the DW could. The range and sounds I was able to pull out of the toms was much broader and *better*...in my opinion.

It took me a few tune-ups before I could really pull the sound out of my DW kit that I really wanted...but once I nailed it...it sounds *incredible*...I paid $3200 for mine and I say it was worth every red cent.

[Fat Elvis]

Man, this thread is getting very interesting, I couldn't agree more though. When I was at GC I tried the DW and Tama kit, and if I was in the market for a new kit, the Tama would have won easily over the DW's. The Tama had a much smaller price tag, but they sounded and looked better than the DW's. Don't go for the hype, go for the sound, and possibly save yourself some dough..

funny, i agree. I find my starclassic to be equal to my DW in pretty much every way -- quality, sound, finish, etc. However, being that you are a ludwig fan (which I am too), my ludwig cant hold a candle to either when it comes to quality (im speaking mostly of hardware, mounts, etc). Even though I knowingly bought a "vintage style" classic maple, the hardware that came on it is pathetic compared to the starclassic or DW. It is just too light for the drums -- the BD mount sags, the T handles on the mounts are flimsy, etc. Although sound-wise it is in the same class as my starclassic and DW, it cant hold a candle to either one for quality of materials.

[Jusstickinaround]

funny, i agree. I find my starclassic to be equal to my DW in pretty much every way -- quality, sound, finish, etc. However, being that you are a ludwig fan (which I am too), my ludwig cant hold a candle to either when it comes to quality (im speaking mostly of hardware, mounts, etc). Even though I knowingly bought a "vintage style" classic maple, the hardware that came on it is pathetic compared to the starclassic or DW. It is just too light for the drums -- the BD mount sags, the T handles on the mounts are flimsy, etc. Although sound-wise it is in the same class as my starclassic and DW, it cant hold a candle to either one for quality of materials.

Yes, I'm sure that's true about the hardware, if anything has really changed over the years it's the hardware, no doubt about it. I use pretty much new hardware, DW tilters on flat based Gilbralter stands, a new Grestch tom holder, 13" tom is on a rims system, and a DW pedal. However, we are not talking about hardware, we're talking about drums and the sound they produce. After all you're not buying a kit because of hardware, it's a definte plus if it has good hardware, but sound is what the main goal should be, I wouldn't pay more for a kit just because of the hardware if the drums had an inferior sound to another. Again, don't go by the hype or fancy hardware, the sound is what should make up your mind which kit to buy.

[Fat Elvis]

Yes, I'm sure that's true about the hardware, if anything has really changed over the years it's the hardware, no doubt about it. I use pretty much new hardware, DW tilters on flat based Gilbralter stands, a new Grestch tom holder, 13" tom is on a rims system, and a DW pedal. However, we are not talking about hardware, we're talking about drums and the sound they produce. After all you're not buying a kit because of hardware, it's a definte plus if it has good hardware, but sound is what the main goal should be, I wouldn't pay more for a kit just because of the hardware if the drums had an inferior sound to another. Again, don't go by the hype or fancy hardware, the sound is what should make up your mind which kit to buy.

well, yes IF the drums dont sound as good, which is NOT the case with DW. You play a ludwig, i play both -- i compare weekly. In my opinion the ludwigs do NOT have a better sound to the DW. While they have a great sound, i personally prefer my DW's and starclassics to my ludwig for sound. Thats not to say that there is anything wrong with the luddys -- far from it, but dont kid yourself in believing that they sound BETTER than DW's -- they dont. The fact is, I paid pretty much the same money for my used DW's as I did for my new ludwigs -- and the DW's were a better buy in build quality, hardware and sound. And yes, while sound is primarily why we buy drums, to say that hardware, finish, etc should not go into your decision to buy a kit is ridiculous. Finish, hardware and sound went into the decisions to buy all my kits.

[ajaye1]

You still have to consider head choices, tunings, playing situations and a lot of other aspects when selecting a kit. I go for versatility because I play several styles as freelancer in NY.

I love the look, sound and quality of Tama and DW. IMO, you can't go wrong either way.
If you can afford it, get what brings out your sound and satisfies your sensibilities.

I once saw Max Roach sit-in on an inexpensive but well tuned kit. He was killin' Tune 'em right and they will speak whatever language you want them to.

[illustrator X]

Are DW's great drums? Hell yes they are. But $5000 for a kick and 4 toms? Come on now!

I was actually ready to buy a DW kit. Had a Red Gum exotic in 22x18 10x8 12x9 14x11 16x16 floor on lay-away and was ready to pay it off and take it home! But, because I was spending soooo much money on a kit, I figured I should be absolutely sure it's what I want. So I compared it next to a Starclassic (both maple and bubinga), a Gretsch Renown, a Yamaha Oak Custom, an Allegra (custom drums made right here in Portland, OR), and a Pearl Masters Birch. I know everyone fairly well at my local Guitar Center, so they let me try different heads on everything to compare more acurately. The set I ended up taking home? The Pearl. Honestly. And it's even a wrapped finish! I hate wraps, especially glittery gold ones (bronze glass), but this kit sounded so amazing, I dealt with it. The bass drum is by far more powerful, resonant, and boomy than the DW. The toms are more pronounced and clear and don't bleed together when doing fast fills up or down them. The Pearl has a very seperated, full, open tone, whereas the DW sounded like a high end drum machine. It sounded exactly like you'd expect a nice kit to sound, no uniqueness. The Pearl sounds as good quality wise, but with more character. I'll admit, I liked the DW 16x16 better, because it had the low enhanced vertical grain option, so the thing boomed like a cannon, but overall, the Pearl was my top choice. And it was only $1820 for 22x18 virgin 10x8 12x9 14x14 floor 16x16 floor. Can't be beat for the money.

Oh yeah, the other kits...

The Yamaha was very tinny and dead without much resonance. Not my cup of tea.

The Starclassics were both very nice actually, but I didn't like the bass drums much. The higher toms on the bubinga kit sounded kinda odd, almost sounded dampened.

The Gretsch was nice but not powerful enough. The floors and bass were just weak.

The Allegra sounded amazing, but it was used and only had one rack tom for $3000.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Try everything before buying new kits, and don't bias by name like most drummers might. I wasn't partial at all to Pearl until I actually gave them a chance.

Red Gum exotic?! I guess that was a GC kit they had in stock because I tried to order that and it was un-available. Well my GC only offered me 30% off DW, insane. I easily got mine for 45% off list elsewhere.
You liked the Pearl (6ply birch) brx over DW.I had a Pearl brx. DIdn't like the snare sound, loved the bass drum a true cannon! But I prefered my pearl mmx (4ply maple) overall. A good bit of preference has to depend on the music you play. But Pearl is a great value for the quality you get. Tops in machining, plating, finishes. I just find the 6ply 7.5mm shell too thick and cold sounding for my tases. Very bright cutting sound.
Btw the sound you liked in the floor tom was due to the vtl, but also what gives the DW floors that extra kick is the fact that DW adds a few ply's of thickness to the floors and bass.

[Jusstickinaround]

well, yes IF the drums dont sound as good, which is NOT the case with DW. You play a ludwig, i play both -- i compare weekly. In my opinion the ludwigs do NOT have a better sound to the DW. While they have a great sound, i personally prefer my DW's and starclassics to my ludwig for sound. Thats not to say that there is anything wrong with the luddys -- far from it, but dont kid yourself in believing that they sound BETTER than DW's -- they dont. The fact is, I paid pretty much the same money for my used DW's as I did for my new ludwigs -- and the DW's were a better buy in build quality, hardware and sound. And yes, while sound is primarily why we buy drums, to say that hardware, finish, etc should not go into your decision to buy a kit is ridiculous. Finish, hardware and sound went into the decisions to buy all my kits.

That's cool, how old is your Ludwig? I have a vintage kit and I do find them to have a superior sound to DW. Like I said, I wouldn't trade my kit for a new DW, I've heard enough of them to know that they are overrated as far as drum sound goes. One of my guitar player friends thinks DW's are great drums, the kick is he has never actually HEARD a DW kit, only the hype that goes along with them. I think DW's are nice drums, just overpriced and overrated.

[Porker69]

Well, I think we've heard everyones input on DW. Now I think this discussion should shift to is OCDP worth the cash. ;) atleast DW makes their own shells.

[larlev]

That's cool, how old is your Ludwig? I have a vintage kit and I do find them to have a superior sound to DW. Like I said, I wouldn't trade my kit for a new DW, I've heard enough of them to know that they are overrated as far as drum sound goes. One of my guitar player friends thinks DW's are great drums, the kick is he has never actually HEARD a DW kit, only the hype that goes along with them. I think DW's are nice drums, just overpriced and overrated.


Dude we know YOUR opinion by now.......I personally take it with a grain of salt....

Your beating a dead horse to death.....go play whatever it is you play and leave it alone

This is by far the most useless thread ever on this board to date....

[Jusstickinaround]

Dude we know YOUR opinion by now.......I personally take it with a grain of salt....

Your beating a dead horse to death.....go play whatever it is you play and leave it alone

This is by far the most useless thread ever on this board to date....

Yes, and thanks for contributing to it's uselessness.

[illustrator X]

Dude we know YOUR opinion by now.......I personally take it with a grain of salt....

Your beating a dead horse to death.....go play whatever it is you play and leave it alone

This is by far the most useless thread ever on this board to date....

How very dickish of you.

This thread is fun.

[Ozzy Biz]

Can we just close this already? And yes Larlev, that horse died a long, long time ago.

[-tarek-]

Red Gum exotic?! I guess that was a GC kit they had in stock because I tried to order that and it was un-available. Well my GC only offered me 30% off DW, insane. I easily got mine for 45% off list elsewhere.
You liked the Pearl (6ply birch) brx over DW.I had a Pearl brx. DIdn't like the snare sound, loved the bass drum a true cannon! But I prefered my pearl mmx (4ply maple) overall. A good bit of preference has to depend on the music you play. But Pearl is a great value for the quality you get. Tops in machining, plating, finishes. I just find the 6ply 7.5mm shell too thick and cold sounding for my tases. Very bright cutting sound.
Btw the sound you liked in the floor tom was due to the vtl, but also what gives the DW floors that extra kick is the fact that DW adds a few ply's of thickness to the floors and bass.

Yeah, they only had a Red Gum because someone else had ordered it and then cancelled. I don't like the BRX snare either, I use a Yamaha brass and soon hopefully an Akira Jimbo Signature (godly) or a Craviatto maple. The bass drum is a freakin' cannon. The thing is ridiculous with no port in the reso. I love it! I only like the BRX toms with either coated heads or thick 2 plys (NOT dampened ones, though, like pinstripes or EC2's or something... eww). They sound too bright and non-depthy with singly ply clear heads. So I agree with you there, but I love the sound with coated G2's over G1. Sounds kind of Sonor-esque to me. I just tune right to where the drum has the longest sustain, and the reso to the exact same pitch, so that don't cut any resonance using coated heads. I love them. Anyway, enough of my obsession with my drums :)

[illustrator X]

Nice, glad to hear you love your brx's. Pearls 6ply birch sound waaaaay better than the 6ply maple mrx. I never threw thicker heads on the brx I had, I should have experimented.

[macmarkus]

answer # 200

again, yes. ;-)

[illustrator X]

Alllllright kids.....just so I can chime in on this post I got my Deedubs (Kidding).
Anyway, I hit a homerun on the finish It's just KILLER and I didn't see it in person till it got to my door. I will chime back in after I get acclimated to my new kit with the final assessment.
Hey like I tell my wife, this is science damn it.

[Fat Elvis]

Alllllright kids.....just so I can chime in on this post I got my Deedubs (Kidding).
Anyway, I hit a homerun on the finish It's just KILLER and I didn't see it in person till it got to my door. I will chime back in after I get acclimated to my new kit with the final assessment.
Hey like I tell my wife, this is science damn it.

an that finish is KILLER!!!!! nice work!

[illustrator X]

Fat E,
The pics don't do the finish justice. When I get them set up I will mess with the camera and try to capture the essence.
TCB!

[harryconway]

O.K...here's another car analogy. LudwigVDC, on another post, showed a 1961 catalog page Ludwig set going for $500+. Lot of money for 1961, you could buy a new car for under $1K. Forward to 2007, a new Chevy Aveo costs $10K. A new DW kit, half that. Now a clean 1961 Luddy today is worth 3-4 times what it was then. Will todays DW kit be worth $15K in 2053? Probably not. DW's, are they worth the cash? Sure they are. And if you score a used kit at a good price, even better. Just don't expect them to go "up" in value.

[zambizzi]

Alllllright kids.....just so I can chime in on this post I got my Deedubs (Kidding).
Anyway, I hit a homerun on the finish It's just KILLER and I didn't see it in person till it got to my door. I will chime back in after I get acclimated to my new kit with the final assessment.
Hey like I tell my wife, this is science damn it.

Beauty! How long did it take them to build the kit? Guitar Center told me anywhere from 8mo. to 2 yrs. so I just bought one of the kits they had in stock...I don't have that kind of patience.

Anyhow, beautiful finish. You'll find yourself staring at them as much as you play them, trust me!

[zambizzi]

O.K...here's another car analogy. LudwigVDC, on another post, showed a 1961 catalog page Ludwig set going for $500+. Lot of money for 1961, you could buy a new car for under $1K. Forward to 2007, a new Chevy Aveo costs $10K. A new DW kit, half that. Now a clean 1961 Luddy today is worth 3-4 times what it was then. Will todays DW kit be worth $15K in 2053? Probably not. DW's, are they worth the cash? Sure they are. And if you score a used kit at a good price, even better. Just don't expect them to go "up" in value.

I think you're wrong, frankly. Everything becomes "vintage" at some point. Since these drums are custom made, by hand, and are considered amongst the best on the market today - when they grow to vintage age, they will surely appreciate in value.

20 yrs. from now, my DW kits will still look and sound as fantastic as they do today...and will surely fetch a vintage price. As to how much that is - no one can say for sure.

Don't forget to adjust for inflation...which is a hidden tax that obfuscates the true market value of any product and can give the impression of "appreciation" in value - when in fact the value of money is just depreciating. The U.S. Dollar has lost more than 90% of its original value since 1913.

[harryconway]

Everything becomes "vintage" at some point. - when they grow to vintage age, they will surely appreciate in value.

20 yrs. from now, my DW kits will still look and sound as fantastic as they do today...and will surely fetch a vintage price. As to how much that is - no one can say for sure.



See, your DW kit will still look and sound fantastic, and so will everyone elses. Very few cats who own $5K drum sets are gonna drill extra holes, re-wrap, rattle-can paint job, etc. their kits. It's part of the attrition of an item that appreciates it's value. Look how many cats on this forum want "new" drums rather than put the same amount of cash into a "gently used" kit. The now 45 year old Ludwig and Gretsch kits will be 90 and fetch even higher collector prices and the DW kits of today will be more plentyful than ever, and therefor not collectable.

[zambizzi]

See, your DW kit will still look and sound fantastic, and so will everyone elses. Very few cats who own $5K drum sets are gonna drill extra holes, re-wrap, rattle-can paint job, etc. their kits. It's part of the attrition of an item that appreciates it's value. Look how many cats on this forum want "new" drums rather than put the same amount of cash into a "gently used" kit. The now 45 year old Ludwig and Gretsch kits will be 90 and fetch even higher collector prices and the DW kits of today will be more plentyful than ever, and therefor not collectable.

Well...alright...I guess I was just replying to your original claim - that future vintage DW kits won't appreciate...which I don't agree with.

Obviously something older and more rare...in just as good condition will be more valuable in the collector's market. This is true of anything.

[pcmckay]

I feel it comes down to personal preference. If you want to spend 5k on a drum kit, hey what ever floats your boat! But I feel when you get into all of the top of the line maple kits the only difference is who offers the finish you like and who has the hardware you like. Personally I can't hear much of a difference, obviously the thinner the shell the more resonance you will have. Bascially to each his own!

[Victor_se]

basically it all comes down to personal preference. Many will say their drums sound just as good.... even some will say their drums sound better. For some -- including me -- its sort of like this:

I drive a porsche. I always wanted one, i have dreamed about it since i was a kid. I am lucky enough to own one. Many people share this dream. Now suburu makes a fast ass car -- it can beat my car. It has well over 300 hp and all wheel drive. It is also less than 1/2 the price of my car new. Apples to apples, you can say that the suburu is better -- its faster, grips the road better, etc.

No kid is going to sleep dreaming of owning a suburu.

There is something to be said for the porsche name, its quality, its mystery and its exclusivity. Its got a great design, great performance, a great name - no matter what suburu produces, it will never approach it. Many would agree the same can be said for DW.

food for thought. By the way, i also play a DW. :)

OMG GREAT RESPONSE!!!!

[Skitch]

It's part of the attrition of an item that appreciates it's value.

It is also hard to know the future and I like what you said about the attrition. But let's say that something happens at DW to shake everything up and the drums are not just the same as they are right now. This is what happenend at many of the vintage drum companies - Rogers, Slingerland (the 1980s pretty much wiped Slingerland out in my opinion). would it be what would make the DW kits being made before my hypothetical "shake up" be more collectable? All of the sudden, the DW kit isn't what it once was, much like a gretsch, rogers or slingerland kit.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[illustrator X]

[QUOTE=zambizzi;333805]Beauty! How long did it take them to build the kit? Guitar Center told me anywhere from 8mo. to 2 yrs. so I just bought one of the kits they had in stock...I don't have that kind of patience.

GC is full of crap. The wait is 5-6 months tops, they where just hard selling you a kit.
My DW kit experience went down sort of crazy, and worked out PERFECTLY. I had my special order in for about 6 weeks, and I happen to say hey to my former drum dealer in Texas. I knew he dealt DW, but I am in PA and DW has the 200 mile rule. Well he started only dealing in Yamaha and no longer was a DW dealer so he had about 10 kits in stock and one of them was almost my exact order. Sure I didn't get a matching snare, but I went from getting 50% off list and the price was about 5k to the in stock kit (with no wait) for 4K. The only bad part of the deal I had to pay a 200.00 penalty for cancelling my order, it wasn't DW it was my local drum dealer that stuck that to me. He kept stringing me along about the order being cancelled so I sort of bribed him since I didn't wan't to miss the other kit.

I am still getting them set up and tuning them, but I love what I hear so far. Explosive and dynamic.

[baz]

...It would take a team of forensic accountants to figure out what exactly I paid for my collection of dubs, and the forest of chrome that supports them.

I have three and a half kits, consisting of some used, and some new. Two of the sets are complete, one is a collection of new and used, with the half dubs being a bit of a Frankenkit.

I am happy with my drums, so I would have to say that they were a good value, and worth the investment.

I am also looking at downsizing by getting rid of a kit, and donating the frankenkit to my sons junior high school next year.

If that happens, I can't guarantee that I won't buy another DW kit if a good enough deal comes my way.

Barry

[zambizzi]

[quote=zambizzi;333805]Beauty! How long did it take them to build the kit? Guitar Center told me anywhere from 8mo. to 2 yrs. so I just bought one of the kits they had in stock...I don't have that kind of patience.

GC is full of crap. The wait is 5-6 months tops, they where just hard selling you a kit.
My DW kit experience went down sort of crazy, and worked out PERFECTLY. I had my special order in for about 6 weeks, and I happen to say hey to my former drum dealer in Texas. I knew he dealt DW, but I am in PA and DW has the 200 mile rule. Well he started only dealing in Yamaha and no longer was a DW dealer so he had about 10 kits in stock and one of them was almost my exact order. Sure I didn't get a matching snare, but I went from getting 50% off list and the price was about 5k to the in stock kit (with no wait) for 4K. The only bad part of the deal I had to pay a 200.00 penalty for cancelling my order, it wasn't DW it was my local drum dealer that stuck that to me. He kept stringing me along about the order being cancelled so I sort of bribed him since I didn't wan't to miss the other kit.

I am still getting them set up and tuning them, but I love what I hear so far. Explosive and dynamic.

Hmm...very interesting, indeed! I figured they were slinging me a pile of BS, it's how they operate there, which is why I don't go in there for gear anymore. I like to buy drum gear from drummers who respect other drummers.

In the next few years I may do a custom build w/ DW instead of buying off-the-shelf, like I did in Feb. I have two full DW kits now but I'd like a little bop kit with a 20" kick and a really exotic finish.

You may find, like I did, that the factory remo heads sound great. I've tried fiberskyns, ambassadors, emperors, and now I'm right back to the factory heads. Tune, play, and re-tune them often over the first month and you'll begin to get a great sound out of them. I found my DW's harder to tune than other kits I've played...but I think I've found the sweet spot...and I'm able to do it much more quickly now.

[Michael Beechey]

[QUOTE=Anyway, I hit a homerun on the finish It's just KILLER and I didn't see it in person till it got to my door. I will chime back in after I get acclimated to my new kit with the final assessment.
Hey like I tell my wife, this is science damn it.[/QUOTE]


Nice!...what finish is that?

[macmarkus]

[quote=illustrator X;334061]
You may find, like I did, that the factory remo heads sound great. [...] Tune, play, and re-tune them often over the first month and you'll begin to get a great sound out of them. I found my DW's harder to tune than other kits I've played...but I think I've found the sweet spot...and I'm able to do it much more quickly now.

you are one hundred percent right ... and i agree two hundred percent with it. ;-)

[Michael G]

Stop...bumping.....this....thread.

[zambizzi]

Stop...bumping.....this....thread.

ok, fine.

20 is the loneliest number...of them all...

[hateplow]

Stop...bumping.....this....thread.
Agreed. Absolutely no more bumping from me. Starting.....now.

[zambizzi]

Agreed. Absolutely no more bumping from me. Starting.....now.

OK, now you're just being difficult...

[spartacus1989]

When I see a DW kit, I immediatly think QUALITY!

But then I think £800+ ($1600+)

Is it really worth it when you can get a tama of the same standard but with more toms or accessories?

DAMN I BUMPED IT :(

[aruration]

Dw is surely overpriced but those dw's lugs they're just awsome!!! I wouldn't mind giving some extra cash for them

[75sling]

I own/ride a 2000 Harley Davidson Roadking. I bought it new. Once, when I was riding it, I came to a red light and to the lane at my left, there was a guy on a Metric Cruiser. He also had a very nice looking lady as his passenger.

I nodded, waived and said hello. He just nodded and I could see he was looking at my bike through the corner of his eye.

The light turned green and he was off like the wind. About 100 yards down the road, another red light. Again, I smiled and nodded. This time, both he and his lady were looking at my bike. The light turned green and once again, he was off like a bullit!!

So, I thought to my self and said, Your Mertic Cruiser can most likely take me off the line every time! You can probably take me on the highway, every time. BUT, every time we stop, YOU are going to stare at my bike, EVERY TIME!!

I own a DW 3 pc Emerald Onyx kit and a 6 piece Yamaha Recording custom and you know what? I look at that DW kit, EVRY TIME!!

75 sling

[illustrator X]

Well I love the kits sound, very impressive. The snare is the best sounding maple snare I have ever heard, the toms have a super smooth tone. The toms aren't thin sounding like Yamie absolute's (6mm no re-rings) and have pretty good resonance and suprisningly more low end than my thinner shell (MMX 5mm w/re-rings). The subtle details they put in the shell from the semi rounded bearing edge, the proportionate reinforcement rings depending on the size of the shell, the increase in ply's in the larger toms, the vtl in the larger toms......well for the same reason they stood out to me in GC's they are delivering at home even more. So the DW shell for my tastes is as good as it gets.
Now for the negatives.....The t-rods going into the lug receivers is shaky, I have to eyeball to make sure they are vertical or the hoop can start to go on twisted. As for the hoop I need to eyeball that as well to make sure it is centered. That may be by design I am not sure, I am just used to more of a fridge door closing effect from my other kits. Now the biggie....the 12" tom is wrecked. I never was able to get a smooth tone out of it. It seems to be out of round. I doubt it left the factory like that, so maybe in transit due to extreeme heat it got a bit tweaked. But DW said to take it a local dealer and have it sent back and they will check it out. It will be a pain to wait for a replacement, but I won't miss it too much since the 10" can tune a tad lower and sound incredible.

More pics, finish is rich red fade over curly maple.

[d2dadub]

I have a question for all the DW heads out there.

I am on my second DW set. :)

I was curious do any of you manipulate the drum to get that DW sound,(You know what I mean - DW's have a very special sweet spot)) or do you all play them out of the box. I wasn't sure if cutting the bearing edges would get them to ring better or not. I always love the DW sound live. Every act I see with DW's always sound the best to me.

What about heads? I play to hard for the recommended single ply. What do you use to get that sound?

[zambizzi]

I have a question for all the DW heads out there.

I am on my second DW set. :)

I was curious do any of you manipulate the drum to get that DW sound,(You know what I mean - DW's have a very special sweet spot)) or do you all play them out of the box. I wasn't sure if cutting the bearing edges would get them to ring better or not. I always love the DW sound live. Every act I see with DW's always sound the best to me.

What about heads? I play to hard for the recommended single ply. What do you use to get that sound?

Cut the bearing edges? Phew, man...I think not. If you're having a custom drum kit built for you, have the guys do it at the factory to your specs so as not to take any chances thrashing a mucho expensive instrument. Are they not 'ringing' enough for you as-is? Both DW kits I own are so broadly tunable that you can get them to do pretty much anything you want.

I don't play super hard but I don't exactly play soft either...on average. I incorporate a lot of dynamics in my playing but my highs can hit pretty hard. That being said; I'm still using the factory heads, 6 months later, and they're single-ply (medium weight). So, I must not be bashing all that hard...they're still in decent shape (no pits, just surface-wear.)

I had fiberskyns for a brief period but decided that they took too much of the high-end out of the tone of the drums. I'm going to try Aquarian Super 2 heads next - they supposedly "sound like a single ply but have the strength of a 2-ply head..."

So, maybe that'd work for you?

[illustrator X]

If you check out billy wards dvd's he uses g2's on his deedubs and they sound good.
So far I only had the stock heads and tried just plain clear ambassadors and I like the stock heads.
As far a bearing edge, dw offers something called "ESE" it is for the reso side edge only and it has a sharper back cut to maximise resonance. I will get it on an 8" add on tom but I didn't want to mess with the 10&12 since I never heard that option in person. They do recomend it for smaller toms but I would imagine it would make the drums a tad more hi-pitched.

[Fat Elvis]

Right now I use clear G2's over G1's and I do like the sound. I recently heard coated emperors at GC on a DW and they sounded great -- i may try those next. I do like the clear evans stuff though -- a great tone.

I had my edges recut at Pork Pie -- but i did this due to damage to the existing edge and not because of something DW did do from the factory. They sound amazing!

[cdrums21]

The toms aren't thin sounding like Yamie absolute's (6mm no re-rings)

Do you think Yamaha maple custom absolute toms are thin sounding??? Really? Mine are anything but. Killer tone and volume are what I'm getting from mine. Just my 2 cents....

[baz]

...I have tried a lot of different head combos on the assortment of snares, toms, and bass drums that I have owned, or do own.

I have mostly been an Evans guy, but when I bought the tiger ash kit, it came with coated emps on the toms, with a coated ambo on the snare. I am impressed enough with how they sound that I am thinking of using them on my other kit.

I can't really assess my tuning ability because the 13, and 16" toms are pretty much idiot proof. No matter what head combo I try, It doesn't take much work to get that big warm boomy sound that I like so much. I have had trouble getting that same feel good sound out of smaller toms, which is problably why I do not own any now.

I have yet to find that one definative head combo for my bass drums and snares, as each of them have such different sound characteristics. What works for the 24" does not necessasarilly work for the 20", and what works for the 20x18, does not necessasarilly work for the 20x16.

As I have said before, I like a big warm boomy sound. I get that with my dubs, so whatever I paid for them, it is worth it to me.

Barry

[Pairofdiddles]

Sorry for piling on this late. I'm new to the site and ran across this thread.

So, here's the skinny - and I think we can ALL agree.

- Pretty much ALL drum manufacturers make kits that anyone would be happy to play. Yammy ANs are great, SQ2's are great, Starclassics are great, Reference, DWs, etc. Let's be honest. Set up the same sizes in same shell material (maple), same heads and same tuning. ALL the kits will sound good and many will be indistinguishable.

- That being said, there are certain drums that lend themselves to certain tunings and certain musical styles. For example, there's a reason SOOOO many jazzers play round badge Gretsch kits. They SOUND like jazz drums. Perhaps the jasper shells or whatever, but they sound phenomenal at high jazz tunings. By comparison, we use a Starclassic kit at church and I'd couldnt imaging tuning those drums for jazz - to me, they simply seem like they are mean to have 2 ply heads for rock playing.

- I'm fortunate enough to live in Chicago and have the Drum Pad as my store. Quite simply, the Drum Pad has the most extensive high end inventory of any store in the world. Over 50 high end kits on display - you name it, its there. And they do a phenomenal job of keeping the kits in tune. That being said, its a dream for A/B testing. Everytime I go there, I like a different kit better. Today it might be the black sparkle Noble and Cooley, or tomorrow the Tribal Roots Designers or maybe the Fibes Crystallite or the Brady.

- Focus on the music style. I've heard very little mention of the type of music people are playing. Just as a 378" Zildjian Z Megapower Bell ride is not going to work for dinner hour jazz, certain drums are better suited for music types and that's just not limited to size and head choice. For example, no one can convince me (not even Bill Bruford) that Starclassics sound good for jazz (as compared to Gretsch, Yamaha, etc).

- Marketing Hype/Buzzwords - lets be honest, DW is the reigning king of marketing buzzwords - TimberMatch, ESE, VLT, Built In Bottom. Hype? You decide. Marketing hype exists in every product we buy - from cars to toothpaste. I think we've been somewhat sheltered from it in the drumworld. Now that we are seeing it here, we are somewhat surprised and turned aback. Either way, I applaud DW for trying to push the envelope. Trying to do something new and exciting. There are too many drum cos out their doing the same tired thing over - I mean, cmon, I saw a Gauger RIMS mounts in and add in a 1979 Modern Drummer with Cozy Powell on the cover. Think about that. Every drum manufacturer is shipping drums today with 25 year old technology. I'm looking for somebody to do something cool. Which brings me to:

- Technology Innovations - sure, it doesnt really have anything to do with the cost of the drum itself, but what I like about DW is the innovation side. Things like the AMAZING sidekick pedal, the bassdrum cradle lifter, shortstack toms (outside of Noble and Cooley Star Series, they started this trend), dog bones, woofers, etc. I love companies that are constantly raising the bar.

- Noble and Cooley/Ayotte - I own an Ayotte kit. These drums fetch a king's ransom. But to me, its justified. The workmanship and materials that go into woodhoop drums are considerably more costly than 2.3m taiwanese triple flanged hoops. Not to mention that Ayottes are simply the best sounding drums I've ever heard. Why? Who knows. They just sound great. Also, N&C drums. Many regard them as the best sounding drums on earth. Especially the rare but AMAZING shallow solid shell 'Star Series'.

At the end of the day, it boils down to what people really like. I'm not sure I buy the car analogy. I would use Sony and Bose. Sony stuff is ALWAYS more expensive. Does it sound better? Maybe/Maybe not. Is there comparable stuff at lower price? Yep. But you feel comfortable with the Sony name. DW is the same way.

However, I think Sonor has been getting a pass on this thread. Sonor stuff is OFF THE CHARTS expensive. But are they worth it? Who knows. Does a Sonor kit sound $2000 better than a comparable Yammy Maple Custom AN? Who knows. But when you think of Sonor, you think of the Ferrari of drums. The reality is that many have probably never heard a hi-end Sonor kit (Hi Lite, Signature, Designer, Sq2). But Sonor has a brand. That's what DW has is is going for....

So, at the end of the day DW stuff IS expensive. Is it worth it? You decide.

BTW - I own about 6 homemade kits, a DW Shortstack club kit, an Ayotte Kit, a Sonor SClass Pro and a Trixon Telstar. And 4,598 snare drums!

[bfrancese]

easy answer

not worth it

[illustrator X]

Do you think Yamaha maple custom absolute toms are thin sounding??? Really? Mine are anything but. Killer tone and volume are what I'm getting from mine. Just my 2 cents....
I was debating on custom absolutes before I got the DW kit. The custom absolutes sound great and smooth. My ear must be used to re-rings and a heavier hoop because I thought they lacked attack/power mainly on the smaller toms. I also own a cust absolute snare and I find the rim shots lack meatyness without re-rings. Honestly the main reasons I didn't get a yamie absolute was the mount on the bass drum came standard and I wasn't excieted over the offered finishes.
I know a dealer that gives killer deals and he has been ordering them without the bass drum mount, so at the time my store was ignorant when I asked about ordering them without the mount. In a year or so I wouldn't pass up a good deal on a new apple sparkle fade.

[illustrator X]

[QUOTE=Pairofdiddles;343847]Sorry for piling on this late. I'm new to the site and ran across this thread.

So, here's the skinny - and I think we can ALL agree.

Great input! Wish I had that store with 50 kits ready to play by me.

[johncool182]

You could just go for Pacifics! LX or LXE!

They sound the exact same under mics to the DW's!
A little different acoustically!

And the guys at PDP are great!
And they are all overlooked by DW anyway!

Cheers,
John Cool!

[illustrator X]

OK kids,
I have had ample time to live with my DW's and I am ready to chime in with an answer to the question. I would have to go with a moderate "NO".
My main comparisons to the DW's are to my Tama starclassics and Pearl mmx kit.
First the negatives:
DW's plating and machining seem cheap-ish compared to the other hi-end kits. For example the chrome hoops aren't as blingy, and have slight imperfections as if they are used even though brand new.
DW's bass hoops are thinner than my other kits and just look cheap-ish in comparison(ok that is a picky esthitic gripe.)
DW's clear coat and finish also seems more mid level with subtle inconsistencies.
I have issue's with tunning rods on a few toms that come loose very quickly.
When changing a head, putting the hoop on the head there isn't a nice snug fit (like closing a fridge door). The hoop sort of slides all around and you have to eyeball the tension rods from the sides to make sure they are verticle before tightening. My other kits the hoops fit right on there and the tuning rods just naturally line up. But maybe that's by design? All that give in the lug receivers and an uncertain connection to the hoop and the shell just seem cheap to me.
Now this is a biggie, the 12" tom never seemed to to tune true and smooth so I sent it back. It came back with different heads and what I assume reworked edges. But thus far the shell seems to still produce the same sour growl, I haven't given up on it quite yet but so far so bad. Obviously, Im not pleased with that outcome since a new 12" tom will set me back an additional 800.00 and no I won't be a happy camper in that case.

What I do like about the DW's:
Well I like thin shell drums, and the shells are similar in thickness to my other kits but with some nice tweaks that make a difference. I like what they do with the bearing edge (rounded back cut), and the vlt on the bigger toms along with the extra ply they add really makes a difference for low end and power. Vlt works, it's no gimmick.
Hands down, DW's for me have the best sounding snares.
Playing the DW's overall have a bit better feel, and I seem to play more expressive and inspired on them. So they are the kit I enjoy playing most. (omitting that 12"tom).

So to recap, everything about DW seems midlevel except for the shell. If they cost the same as Yamaha custom absolutes, or Tama, or Pearl I would say go DW for slight sound advantage due to the extra attention paid to getting the most out of the shell. But I feel you would get more quality and consistency for your buck going with other hi-end kits. If I had a chance to do it again, I would stick with the DW snares as always, and would have ordered a Yamaha custom absolute and saved 2k!

Drum on.

[tomtom]

After setting up 4 kits side by side to try out; DW finish ply, Yamaha MCA, Tama Starclassic Maple, Tama Starclassic Birch/Bubinga I chose the one that to my ears sounded the best.

My choice: Tama Starclassic Birch/Bubinga. Nicer sounding (fuller, warmer, punchier) and better overall workmanship

The price: Unbelievably it cost 1/3rd what the DW cost.

[RobertM]

I thought this topic finally died a long time ago. Yes, DWs are expensive, but Pork Pie, OCDP, and the like are just as expensive. And, if you really want to press this "worth the money" argument, then your target should be Craviotto drums, not DW. A tiny four-piece bop kit in Craviotto starts at $5000.00, and that's with just a satin oil finish or wrap; a six-piece DW in lacquer custom was $4200.00 just two years ago, I believe. Big difference.

Simple response in my mind is, if you like the sound and the options and have the money, then go for it--it is about personal preference. With good head selection, tuning, and good playing skills, you can make an Orion, Saturn, Yamaha Absolute, Tama Starclassic, etc., all sound good. Heck, I've heard very skilled drummers make Pearl Export kits sound good, and I've heard them also make DW sound good. Bernhard is quite right here: the player determines a lot. If you cannot play well, then just about any kit will suffer. (As an added note, I recently attended a jazz jam session, and the drummer played phenomenally well--he had a Tama kit and it sounded great. From where I was sitting, I thought it was a Starclassic, definitely. It ended up being a little crappy Stagestar, but he tuned it well, had good heads, and could play like a mother.)

Now, can we stop picking on DWs? Really, this question is quite ridiculous. At least broaden the target to include Craviotto, Canopus, Brady, and others like them that make good drums for outrageous prices. It is not just DW doing this.

No intent to offend--just my two cents...

[Tuxido]

A tiny four-piece bop kit in Craviotto starts at $5000.00, and that's with just a satin oil finish or wrap; a six-piece DW in lacquer custom was $4200.00 just two years ago, I believe. Big difference.


I don't think you can compare Craviotto to DW, Craviotto are Solid shells....

[illustrator X]

Nobody was out to pick on DW, there was just a valid question posed that most drummers wonder about when they see that big price tag. Does more expensive mean better quality. I found in some ways yes and in others no. All opinions are subjective, but in my case it is an informed opinion.

[Kirsh]

DW worth the cash?
well if you can afford it without any problem and you like the sound, features ,etc. yes
if you like a cheaper kit more, with the same quality or that satisfy your demands, maybe no

[Ozzy Biz]

I thought this thread had died already....
talk about flooging a dead horse

[illustrator X]

Yes this thread is not dead.
Sorry to be a flip flopper but I have to say "yes" to the great question. I have had several months with my DW collectors. More importantly, I recently got a hold of a used Yamaha maple cust absolute. I have had them at home, and I gig with them. They are sweet drums, I really love them. I previously thought aside from a clear winner for DW in the snare drum catagory the rest of the kit was a push. But spending time with both kits, DW has an edge in the bass drum, and even the toms. The ege on the toms is slight, it may be the re-rings giving the DW's a bit more bite but I just prefer the feel of them. The VLT definately delivers on the floors and bass.
Now this is all subjective opinion, and I wasn't even going to come back here and aggrivate you guys. But knowing what I know now I am saying (if you have the cash) DW's are worth the extra cost. I am 38 and have been in love with drumming since I was 3 and have had lots of kits, so I am a bit of a freak. So I know I would pay more for whatever sounds better to me, even if the differences are slight. Depending on the type of music you play, they may not even come into play.

I wasn't going to chime back in here, the flip flopping may lose me some votes in the next election. But I figure a few of my fellow drum freaks out there may understand.

[rmandelbaum]

anything is worth what people are willing to pay. I personally own two DW collectors kits.
And I feel they are worth every penny.

[Solaris]

Really when you are talking about professional level kits, it's all a matter of taste. Sure DW so offer some great options like VLT, X shells, Edge snares etc... but other companies have their own "specialities". Pearl has their reference kits, Sonor have their SQ2 and so on. If someone thinks that DW drums sound the same as Mapex Orions then fine, buy the Orions.

My personal Opinion on DW is that you get what you paid for: handmade, Timbre matched drums with a whole host of extra options.

[Deathmetalconga]

My personal Opinion on DW is that you get what you paid for: handmade, Timbre matched drums with a whole host of extra options.

You also get something else. Your purchase supports U.S. workers, who received a decent wage and benefits for their labor, and it supports a company that complies with environmental laws.

When you buy a set that wasn't made in a first-world nation (U.S., Europe, Australia, Japan, etc.), chances are there is lots of mud and blood on the set. The workers weren't paid a decent wage with benefits and the company didn't have to comply with pollution control and natural resource laws. China is a great example of a nation poisoning itself and exploiting its workers so it can sell us cheap goods.

Those cheap high-quality sets coming out of Asia are just as expensive as the DWs, but the costs are distributed differently. The main difference is that workers and the environment are getting screwed over so you can save a few bucks.

[illustrator X]

The main difference is that workers and the environment are getting screwed over so you can save a few bucks.[/QUOTE]

OK veering off topic but....
Buying American is always cool. But workers in a 3rd world country need to work to feed thier families. Countries are at different stages of development. Do you know what coal miners made in this country in the 1930's?

[Dr.Hook]

you know i get this exact same comment about my car from suburu owners. hmmmm....

you know, with all due respect (and that this point, very little is due) you always chirp on about how over-rated they are, yet you so rarely support your argument. Your "absolute" obsession with yamaha is only exceeded by your "absolute" hatred for DW. Many people find value in these drums. They are well made, well finished, use incredible materials. Since you play the suburu of the drum world, i guess we can all understand why you would hate the porsche of the drum world.

I really like the comparison of a Subaru to a Porsche.

To elaborate on your point I would simply say: When it comes to the Subaru and Porchse, yes both are cars. To me, which one would I want to own after 100,000 miles on the clock? Hands down the Porsche, for obvious reasons. My brother-in law used to own a Targa...sweettt!

I know if I had the $$$$, and wanted a kit that would last, I'd probably take a DW. Theres a reason why so many pro drumers have made the switch to DW, and i'm sure its not always about indorsement $$$$. Sure I think they cost a lot, but I remember what old grandma Hook said to me as a yout; "When you buy quality, you only cry once".

[Deathmetalconga]

Buying American is always cool. But workers in a 3rd world country need to work to feed thier families. Countries are at different stages of development. Do you know what coal miners made in this country in the 1930's?

Good point. But the problem is that those Third-World workers often can't feed their families on what they earn in the factory. I'd rather pay more and know the extra money was going to someone's retirement plan and health care, and sending toxic paints and solvents off to be properly recycled. It's an easy way out to say, "Yeah, I'm paying less, but at least the 12-year-old who spray-lacquers drum sets 12 hours a day without any protective gear gets a meal out of it."

American coal miners were probably treated about as poorly as anyone in an inherently dangerous and dirty job was back in the 1930s (indeed, there may not have been any First-world nations on Earth as we currently define them). In any case, this is the 2000s, and a LOT has changed in 75 years. We know it's not cool to trash the environment and treat people like disposable items just to bring privileged consumers on the other side of the world some high-quality items at fantastically affordable prices.

Also, I don't think this is off-topic at all. If you're asking if DW is worth the cash, what are you buying? Working conditions and environmental protection matter to some of us as much as mystique, rubber grommets, selection and slick marketing. When you buy from a First-world manufacturer, your paying for environmental protection and better working conditions.

If it sounds too good to be true and yet it is true, then someone or something else has paid some of the cost for you.

[Dr.Hook]

Good point. But the problem is that those Third-World workers often can't feed their families on what they earn in the factory. I'd rather pay more and know the extra money was going to someone's retirement plan and health care, and sending toxic paints and solvents off to be properly recycled. It's an easy way out to say, "Yeah, I'm paying less, but at least the 12-year-old who spray-lacquers drum sets 12 hours a day without any protective gear gets a meal out of it."



I take it then when you purchase anything you check the label to see where its made?? Since it seems everything these days is made in China or somewhere in Asia or some third world country, and since i'm certain that underpaid/starving 12 year olds can build more than drums, i'm just curious if you don't buy any products made overseas, or is it just drums made overseas??

I bet you if you asked those underpaid 12 year olds, or any underpaid Asian or third world workers if they would rather be earning an income, be it underpaid, or earning nothing at all...well, you get my point. No one is holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to build drums, they do it to make $$$, because any amount of $$$ is better than $0.

There are lots of people in Canada that work there butts off, and I mean WORK for minimum wage. I see labourers here in Halifax putting there bodies through abuse for minimum wage $8.50/hour , and they are barely making ends meet.

Just because it happens in a foreign country doesen't make it any more of an issue than it happening right in our own backyard.
The thing is,sometimes its just easier to forget about it when it is going on in our own backyard.

Come to think of it, don't DW own PDP??? And doesen't PDP have an entry level kit called the "EZ". And isn't this kit "EZ" made overseas??? Hmmmm.....

[Big_Philly]

My point on the subaru-porsche thing is the same point I have about comparing DW to any other high-end kit:
Both Porsche 911 and Subaru Impreza are great cars, technologically very advanced and beautiful. If I had the choice it would be neither though; every random person wants a porsche or a Ferrari and will buy one as soon as possible. I'd rather go for something exclusive like a Pagani Zonda or a Lamborghini Gallardo.

[Deathmetalconga]

I take it then when you purchase anything you check the label to see where its made?? Since it seems everything these days is made in China or somewhere in Asia or some third world country, and since i'm certain that underpaid/starving 12 year olds can build more than drums, i'm just curious if you don't buy any products made overseas, or is it just drums made overseas??

I bet you if you asked those underpaid 12 year olds, or any underpaid Asian or third world workers if they would rather be earning an income, be it underpaid, or earning nothing at all...well, you get my point. No one is holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to build drums, they do it to make $$$, because any amount of $$$ is better than $0.

There are lots of people in Canada that work there butts off, and I mean WORK for minimum wage. I see labourers here in Halifax putting there bodies through abuse for minimum wage $8.50/hour , and they are barely making ends meet.

Just because it happens in a foreign country doesen't make it any more of an issue than it happening right in our own backyard.
The thing is,sometimes its just easier to forget about it when it is going on in our own backyard.

Come to think of it, don't DW own PDP??? And doesen't PDP have an entry level kit called the "EZ". And isn't this kit "EZ" made overseas??? Hmmmm.....

As a matter of fact, I do check the labels when I buy something and I buy U.S. and First-world stuff when I can. Buying First-world items is no guarantee that's you're paying for good working conditions and environmental protections. But it's the best rule-of-thumb I know of, so I try to do it whenever I can.

Actually, in many Third-world nations, someone might really be holding a gun to the 12-year-old's head forcing her to build lacquer drums, or there may be an equivalent from of political or social repression. Sorry to sound so heavy about buying drums, but when you buy something, you are supporting the economic and political system of the place where you're sending your money. You are supporting their values toward environmental protection and treatment of workers.

When you send your money to a non-First-world country for something, in most cases, you are contributing in a small way to the cannibalizing of First-world economies and evaporation of workplace benefits that is going on in the global marketplace.

It doesn't have to be that way, though. You make this sound like the company exploiting the 12-year-old has no choice, but it does. There are places in Third World countries where the actual product maker gets a decent family wage. It's hard to find First-world distributors out there for these products, but it is increasing.

So, is DW worth the cash? Depends on what you want your money to support.