Drum Workshop Worth The Cash?

[madbeva]

seems like a problem with no solution. people need to work, need to eat, need to take care of their families. sometimes they work at the end of a gun for little in the way of a decent wage. don't buy from companies who manufacture overseas in third world countries and maybe you're taking food from the mouthes of infants, maybe not . . . buy from a company that manufactures in a third world country and perpetuate the problem. right? anybody on here who has a REAL solution to world poverty/environmental devastation, etc. then apply for a job with the UN or something but then those guys don't seem to have their junk together . . . thanks for reminding me that this world is going down the toilet - and fast!

[MikeyOdrums]

I own a set I absolutlye love them!!! If brand new is breaking the budget find a used set there are just as good for thousands less... doooo ittt you will not be disappointed
Mikey o

[hateplow]

Yes, they are worth the cash.

[altdrumz]

Drum Workshop are great drums, my Slingerland Studio Kings ( I own 3 kits - one built by Pat Foley himself - put them to shame. ) - My DW kit is my "drum whore" kit - I use it on fill in - hired gun kits - always sound great. Keller shells. duh.

Slingerland Studio Kings, Keller Shells - 5 lug design - die cast rims - quality construction
( except for the stands - they suck!!! ) - totally overshadow DW in terms of sound.

DW made a decision when they were hitting the market to get that logo behind every artist's shoulder and establish a brand, a premium brand. They just did that marketing
thing at a very high level of execution.

There are plenty of brands that sound as good or better. It's all in the hands, the sticks and the tuning.

My 2 Cents.
Alt

[KarlCrafton]

DW made a decision when they were hitting the market to get that logo behind every artist's shoulder and establish a brand, a premium brand.
They just did that marketing thing at a very high level of execution.

There are plenty of brands that sound as good or better. It's all in the hands, the sticks and the tuning.

My 2 Cents.
Alt

I agree.
DW makes some great looking kit's, I just don't really dig the sound of them.
When I sit behind a DW kit, there's something missing to me, but, they may be the sh*t to you.

So, if you think it's worth it, go for it.

You want to be happy with your purchase, even if you spend a few more bucks.

You're spending the cash to get what you want. When you sit behind the kit after spending a bunch of dough, you don't want to say "I wish I woulda..."

Personally, I'd put my Ludwig drums and snares up against a DW kit any day, but that's the sound & feel I like.

[wy yung]

Interesting discussion.

I like the DW pedals very much. My DW hi hat stand is wonderful and has been working well without a breakdown for over ten years. Same goes with the 5000 bass drum pedal I bought around the same time.

As for the drums, well I'm quite willing to buy some (I buy many drums) but as yet I've not heard one that really impressed me. As far as I'm concerned a good shell is a good shell regardless of the brand name on the drum. However with DW there seems to be, IMO, a large group of groupies who do not even consider other brands. I even know a guy who tries only to listen to DW players!?!! This is really what annoys me about DW. Of course this is not the fault of DW. Or perhaps it is, considering the marketing strategy they have so successfully used.

They are certainly good drums. Worth the money? Well over the past few weeks I've spent several thousand dollars on high end snare drums. Not one of them is a DW.


Yet. ;-)

[gmrakich]

They only DW drum I now have is a 14x6.5 custom shop edge snare. Its wood section is solid curly maple stained ruby red. It is a stunning drum. The sound is fantastic both live and recorded. You loose nothing live with this drum....very crisp and out front.
If they were to ever make an Edge kit....I'm afraid I'd have to dip into savings.

[jeremiah]

You could have this same debate for most high-end or custom kits. Of course, that always gets trumped by someone saying "yeah, but dw's are like x amount more expensive than other mfg's". You have to compare apples to apples. If you're comparing a mass produced Pearl Reference to a custom ordered DW with a custom paint job over an exotic finish with satin hw of course there's gonna be a huge price difference. Even with similiar specs a Pearl Masterworks kit will still cost less than a DW. It's just one of those things where if it's what you want then you have to pay to play. Sure there are comparable kits that look and sound similiar (or better depending on who you ask) for less money. But, it's still not a DW. If that's your preference for whatever reason, nothing else is gonna completely satisfy you no matter how great they are or how good of a deal you get. So if that's the case or if you fall into this category then I would think they would be considered worth the investment.

[Steady Freddy]

I skipped outta work today and went on the prowl at the local Sam Ash. They had several very nice DW kits. The average price was around $3400.00. Most of these where 2 up, 1 down, and a kick.

A Pearl Reference kit with one up, two down, kick, and snare was out for $3800.00. An MCAN two up, two down, and kick was a bit more.

If you're going to buy a top end kit you're going to shell out some long green regardless of who's name is on the badge. That said, it seems that many only target the DWs as being over priced. By contrast a 2 up, two down, and kick used DW was out for $4700.00. This kit was born in 2002. Not a bad investment IMHO.

For those who don't like the DW sound I can respect where you're coming from, but some simply seem to take issue with DW when other comparable kits cost just as much if not more.

What's wrong with this picture?

[aydee]

I skipped outta work today and went on the prowl at the local Sam Ash. They had several very nice DW kits. The average price was around $3400.00. Most of these where 2 up, 1 down, and a kick.

A Pearl Reference kit with one up, two down, kick, and snare was out for $3800.00. An MCAN two up, two down, and kick was a bit more.

If you're going to buy a top end kit you're going to shell out some long green regardless of who's name is on the badge. That said, it seems that many only target the DWs as being over priced. By contrast a 2 up, two down, and kick used DW was out for $4700.00. This kit was born in 2002. Not a bad investment IMHO.

For those who don't like the DW sound I can respect where you're coming from, but some simply seem to take issue with DW when other comparable kits cost just as much if not more.

What's wrong with this picture?

All the other drum makers you mentioned also operate in other price ranges. DW doesnt. Pacific is a sub-brand not obviously associated with DW. This is an intentional strategy to maintain an exclusive, premium image.Therefore they are more open to this kind of discussion than others.

[Mendozart]

THWUMP, THWUMP, THWUMP, THWUMP............................



What is the sound of beating a dead horse?

BTW, I'm watching Jeopardy right now,lol.

[jeremiah]

All the other drum makers you mentioned also operate in other price ranges. DW doesnt. Pacific is a sub-brand not obviously associated with DW. This is an intentional strategy to maintain an exclusive, premium image.Therefore they are more open to this kind of discussion than others.

Most people know that DW is the parent company of PDP. It even says PDP by DW on most of the promo stuff. DW is custom. PDP is mass produced. It makes sense to seperate the two, even if they know that one will still be associated with the other. Look at all of the other companies who sub-out or have seperate locations for their entry and mid-grade products but still market them under the same brand. That seems a bit more dishonest to me.

[aydee]

Most people know that DW is the parent company of PDP. It even says PDP by DW on most of the promo stuff. DW is custom. PDP is mass produced. It makes sense to seperate the two, even if they know that one will still be associated with the other. Look at all of the other companies who sub-out or have seperate locations for their entry and mid-grade products but still market them under the same brand. That seems a bit more dishonest to me.

To me its like Lexus and Toyota. the peoples car v/s a luxury car coming from the same parent but with 2 separate identities .
Theres a world of qualitative difference between PDPs and DW that goes beyond just customization. As Mendozart says we've 'thwumped' this to death.. but these are all strategies to create brand images, and the one DW has created for itself is Super/premium/ exclusive/custom whatever. Pearl or Yamaha, or Gretsch or Sonors dont exclusively have that image.

[Steady Freddy]

All the other drum makers you mentioned also operate in other price ranges. DW doesnt. Pacific is a sub-brand not obviously associated with DW. This is an intentional strategy to maintain an exclusive, premium image.Therefore they are more open to this kind of discussion than others.

Greg's right. We are beating a dead horse, but................ =)

I'm old school. I started playing in 63 - 64 ? Something like that. Anyway.... Back then if you asked your drummer friends what they played you'd get: Ludwig, Slingerland, Rogers, and so on.

Everyone knew what that meant. The drum companies just made drums and didn't have a zillion different levels to choose from for the most part.

I respect DW for not compromising. When a drummer says they play DWs. We know what that means.

Good, bad, or indifferent, it is what it is.

[aydee]

Greg's right. We are beating a dead horse, but................ =)
When a drummer says they play DWs. We know what that means.

.

Well, you're slightly more old skool than me.......: ) I started in '70.. played a beat up second-hand Slingy,and all the while drooling and fantasizing about my rich buddy's gleaming blue-sparkle Rogers.

Not in total agreement with your last statement, though . I think a whole bunch of us play DWs for the same reason they drive Mercs, or BMWs.. not neccessarily because they are great cars to drive, but because they are 'known' and 'seen' to be the best.

[Steady Freddy]

Not in total agreement with your last statement, though . I think a whole bunch of us play DWs for the same reason they drive Mercs, or BMWs.. not neccessarily because they are great cars to drive, but because they are 'known' and 'seen' to be the best.

That's a great point, and I'm sure that name recognition plays into it. I've said it before, but a company has to put out a great product to get a great name.

Sure, marketing is important, and I can't fault a company for promoting itself.

I guess there's just a tendency to take shots at the big players in the game.

I appreciate the conversation.

Rock on!

[baz]

Not in total agreement with your last statement, though . I think a whole bunch of us play DWs for the same reason they drive Mercs, or BMWs.. not neccessarily because they are great cars to drive, but because they are 'known' and 'seen' to be the best.

...Guilty.

I have not heard many really truly crappy sounding drum kits. (excluding my playing) That being said, sound wise I could more than make do with anything. I am a self admitted DW whore for more reasons than just the sound.

I started playing the drums rather late in life. I was 35 when I started, and I am 48 now. I have a brother who has been playing since he could walk, and he has always been a Ludwig man at heart. when I started playing, I became a bit of a nutter and found a lot of enjoyment out of buying old used kits, fixing them up, and reselling them. I was buying a lot of peoples " first" kits, mostly entry level generic Japanese brands. It was very rare that I saw any decent quality Ludwig, Rogers, Slingerland, or Camco kits for sale. Most people that owned them hung on to them. Of the few odd kits that I did see for sale, most sellers were asking, and getting what I thought was out of line money for them. People paid the money because they knew what they were getting.

When I became a serial drummer and started collecting new and used deedubs, I know what I am getting for my money. As I have stated before, I have many reasons aside from the sound for why I like DW and why to me, they are worth the money. Now that the Canadian dollar is almost at par with the American dollar, DW has also become a lot more affordable.

Barry

[gmrakich]

The price of DW kits are comp to any other ultra high end kit until you start the custom pimp mobile finishes and specialty finish hardware. I had a tribal band Jr Bonham kit that was just under 10K retail...the same kit was about 6500 in a wrap.
If you like the thin shell reinforcement hoop sound, no one does it better than DW and if you have the cash, spend away.
Yes they are a status symbol, but there is nothing wrong with being proud of your equipment. I play Pork Pie drums and feel the same way about my kits and you DW guys do. Its all what you like and your income bracket.

[ihitdrumz]

why eat a steak when a few slices of bread and a vitamin suppliment will keep you alive?

because the steak tastes better

[Pavlos]

I'm confused by the auto related analogies. Shouldn't Sonor be the Porsche of drums since they're German? How about this list:
DW = Cadillac
Sonor = Porsche
Yamaha = Lexus
Tama=Subaru
Pearl = Honda
Gretsch = Lincoln
Ludwig = Mercedes

Let's keep our companies' country origins straight eh? But then again since my Sonors are 3003, maybe they're just the VWs of the drum world.

Still trying to think what would be the Hyundai of the drum world?

Seriously though, if the drums are what you really want and feel best playing then they're worth it. Maybe ask, how is your playing affected subconsciously knowing you have what you want or don't want? Hard to measure but maybe gives a bit of piece of mind and contentment. Just like the environment around you can affect you.

[Mendozart]

Ludwig = Mercedes

Let's keep our companies' country origins straight eh?
Uh, Ludwigs have always been made in the good 'ol USof A.

[Pavlos]

Doh! What was I thinkin?

[Mendozart]

Doh! What was I thinkin?

Well, WFL senior was born in Germany, then emigrated to the U.S. when he was 8 years old.

[metal overlord]

I don't like how they don't have to rubber protectors around the hardware.
I don't like how much they charge when you can get a better drum set at half the price.
I don't like how they do their floor toms, because the "rack mount" thing just warps and strips the shell and hardware.

I do like how they make their shells, and their whole big thing on that.

And they don't sound to bad to my ear.

But, if this thread hasn't died a long time ago, no. DW is just a huge waste of cash.

[caddywumpus]

I think a whole bunch of us play DWs for the same reason they drive Mercs, or BMWs.. not neccessarily because they are great cars to drive, but because they are 'known' and 'seen' to be the best.

That's a perk, for sure. I chose my particular DW kit because it sounded exactly how I wanted it to sound. I had tried just about all of the other higher-end kits out there, and even a bunch of DW kits. It took a LONG time to find what I was looking for. I was leaning toward getting a certain Tama Starclassic at the local music store when I tried out this used DW kit that I now call my baby. It just had "that" sound that I couldn't find anywhere else (even in other DW kits).

I don't ever see myself buying a DW kit new, because I believe that they're too expensive, but finding a great-sounding one used is what ended up being right for me.

[Deathmetalconga]

I don't like how they don't have to rubber protectors around the hardware.
I don't like how much they charge when you can get a better drum set at half the price.
I don't like how they do their floor toms, because the "rack mount" thing just warps and strips the shell and hardware.

I do like how they make their shells, and their whole big thing on that.

And they don't sound to bad to my ear.

But, if this thread hasn't died a long time ago, no. DW is just a huge waste of cash.

Again, you're not just buying the drums that you see in the store. You're also supporting the system that made them. If the drums were made in the US (like DWs) you're contributing to a family wage and health care benefits for the workers and to environmental protections. If you buy something from China, the person was paid very little (and might have been a child slave) and the waste was dumped into the nearest river or burned. The drums still cost the same, except in one case the consumer pays the cost and in the other, the environment or exploited workers paid the cost for you.

Also, you're paying for research and innovation. Companies like DW employ people to try different approaches, manufacturing methods and product development. Cheaper companies just copy the innovations of others. Nothing wrong with this per se, but you should understand that you're money is going to more than just a fancy badge.

[metal overlord]

Again, you're not just buying the drums that you see in the store. You're also supporting the system that made them. If the drums were made in the US (like DWs) you're contributing to a family wage and health care benefits for the workers and to environmental protections. If you buy something from China, the person was paid very little (and might have been a child slave) and the waste was dumped into the nearest river or burned. The drums still cost the same, except in one case the consumer pays the cost and in the other, the environment or exploited workers paid the cost for you.

Also, you're paying for research and innovation. Companies like DW employ people to try different approaches, manufacturing methods and product development. Cheaper companies just copy the innovations of others. Nothing wrong with this per se, but you should understand that you're money is going to more than just a fancy badge.


So I want to buy drums so I can help the working man? Don't get me wrong, I am one (or soon will be).

But, your saying that Tama doesn't care for it's employees? How exactly would you know? I love Tama. I hate DW. No big reason to fight over this. I just, completely, disagree with that comment.

I really don't know how to respond to this fully, so I'll just leave you alone. I don't want to have some huge arguement.

But, still, I'd take my Tama over any DW, anyday.


Ah, but that last part. I agree. People pay so DW can research how to be the best, and for that I give them props. They charge much because they need it for research & innovation like you said. That I can agree with. But, I really don't see DW going to far with choices. Only 2 woods to choose from isn't much of a freedom of choice.

[Deathmetalconga]

So I want to buy drums so I can help the working man? Don't get me wrong, I am one (or soon will be).

But, your saying that Tama doesn't care for it's employees? How exactly would you know? I love Tama. I hate DW. No big reason to fight over this. I just, completely, disagree with that comment.

I really don't know how to respond to this fully, so I'll just leave you alone. I don't want to have some huge arguement.

But, still, I'd take my Tama over any DW, anyday.

Ah, but that last part. I agree. People pay so DW can research how to be the best, and for that I give them props. They charge much because they need it for research & innovation like you said. That I can agree with. But, I really don't see DW going to far with choices. Only 2 woods to choose from isn't much of a freedom of choice.

Just to clarify something, I would count Tama in with a "domestic" drum maker like DW. Last time I checked, Tamas are made in Japan, where they also have worker and environmental protections, and Tamas cost more because of that. I got my drums from Australia and the money went directly to the person making the drums. Ditto for European drums.

If you buy something from a First World country, chances are it doesn't have much mud and blood on it. I'm talking mainly about stuff made in China.

[larryace]

The one point that I don't think this thread addressed fully is the fact that DW's are constructed differently than Yamaha, Tama, Pearl. I don't think you can compare DW's w/ non re ring drums. Apples to oranges. I bet if all the companies made thin shells w/ re rings, they would sound very close to one another. Then comparisons would be on a more level playing field. People who like DW's like the thin shell re-ring sound which is different than the thicker shells that supposedly offer more projection, which makes no sense to me, sound moves at a set rate. I go for tone first and foremost and thin shells w/ re rings sound bigger fuller warmer than the other shells to my ear. I really like the sound of the thicker shells, they're all good, but I'm totally in love with the sound of thinner shells. I've been recording myself everytime I play for a few years now, and I noticed a huge absolutely superior difference in my sound after getting my first DW set in June. they sound so...professional in my opinion. I have no regrets on the 5800 I spent on a 22x20, 10x9, 12x10, 14x14, and 16x16. Plus another 650 for cases. The money is a non issue to me unless I was less than satisfied, which I'm most decidedly not.

[Pavlos]

Again, you're not just buying the drums that you see in the store. You're also supporting the system that made them. If the drums were made in the US (like DWs) you're contributing to a family wage and health care benefits for the workers and to environmental protections. If you buy something from China, the person was paid very little (and might have been a child slave) and the waste was dumped into the nearest river or burned. The drums still cost the same, except in one case the consumer pays the cost and in the other, the environment or exploited workers paid the cost for you.

Also, you're paying for research and innovation. Companies like DW employ people to try different approaches, manufacturing methods and product development. Cheaper companies just copy the innovations of others. Nothing wrong with this per se, but you should understand that you're money is going to more than just a fancy badge.

Hate to burst your bubble, but most (maybe all) of the big companies take advantage of low cost labor in developing countries. DW has Pacific Drums made in Mexico. Sonor has Force drums made in China. I'm sure most of the Japanese take advantage of Chinese labor too, but I don't feel like researching it now. So even if you buy American made DWs for example, you're still supporting a company the uses cheap labor.

And for most people, dropping $2K - $10K on a drumset (with no cymbals) is just not possible. What should those of us who don't have that cash to burn do? Not play drums because we can't afford the ones manufactured in a first world country like Germany, Japan, USA etc.? In theory I agree with you that we get way too many low cost goods from developing countries, but in reality what is the answer?

[Dystisis]

And when you think about it, everything you buy has been made by a worker who hasn't been paid enough for his/her job (no matter where he/she lives). It is the way the economic system works.

A worker creates a drum (just an example). The capitalist pays this worker just as much to still profit from having that worker create the drum --- ie. less than what that worker actually worked for.

Not saying this is good, but you should be aware of it.

[harryconway]

...DW's are constructed differently...Pearl. I don't think you can compare DW's w/ non re ring drums....companies made thin shells w/ re rings.... People who like DW's like the thin shell re-ring sound I go for tone first and foremost and thin shells w/ re rings sound bigger fuller warmer than the other shells to my ear. Pearl, with the Masters Premium http://www.pearldrum.com/masters.asp makes thin 4 ply shells with reinforcement rings. The MMP in maple and the BMP in birch. And they have for quite a few years.
.... my Slingerland Studio Kings ( I own 3 kits - one built by Pat Foley himself - put them to shame. ) - My DW kit is my "drum whore" kit - I use it on fill in - hired gun kits - always sound great. Keller shells. duh.

Slingerland Studio Kings, Keller Shells - 5 lug design - die cast rims - quality construction
( except for the stands - they suck!!! ) - totally overshadow DW in terms of sound.
I'll totally agree here. Plenty of vintage drums out there that deliver the same kind of sound that DW is shooting for now.
DW made a decision when they were hitting the market to get that logo behind every artist's shoulder and establish a brand, a premium brand. They just did that marketing
thing at a very high level of execution.
And things only have the power you give them.


I don't ever see myself buying a DW kit new, because I believe that they're too expensive, but finding a great-sounding one used is what ended up being right for me.

Personally, I don't see myself buying any drum set new. And DW owners especially are not known to flog their kits. So why not save up to 50%, and get a "gently used" kit. But enough new kits were sold, and now times are getting hard, and the value of these kits on the used market, they don't hold up. A Ludwig kit that originally cost $500 now sells for $1200. A DW kit that sold for $4K now sells for $2K.....it is what it is. And if you can afford to burn that kinda cash, then it's worth it. Everyone has different "rules of engagement".

[Deathmetalconga]

And when you think about it, everything you buy has been made by a worker who hasn't been paid enough for his/her job (no matter where he/she lives). It is the way the economic system works.

A worker creates a drum (just an example). The capitalist pays this worker just as much to still profit from having that worker create the drum --- ie. less than what that worker actually worked for.

Not saying this is good, but you should be aware of it.

I totally disagree with your first sentence. In plenty of capitalist-type nations, workers are paid enough to feed their families, own a home and purchase consumer goods. Most of the "profit" goes to wages, taxes, insurance, benefits, environmental law compliance, research, raw materials, utilities and marketing (the "capital"). What's left over, if anything, goes to the people who own the company and stick their necks out to keep it going - a family, stockholders, whomever.

I don't know of ANY drums that are produced in non-capitalist systems. What I'm talking about is purchasing drums that came from a place where the workers were paid well and treated well and the environment protected. All three of those things happen in plenty of places on Earth, but you will have to pay more for it.

[Deathmetalconga]

Hate to burst your bubble, but most (maybe all) of the big companies take advantage of low cost labor in developing countries. DW has Pacific Drums made in Mexico. Sonor has Force drums made in China. I'm sure most of the Japanese take advantage of Chinese labor too, but I don't feel like researching it now. So even if you buy American made DWs for example, you're still supporting a company the uses cheap labor.

And for most people, dropping $2K - $10K on a drumset (with no cymbals) is just not possible. What should those of us who don't have that cash to burn do? Not play drums because we can't afford the ones manufactured in a first world country like Germany, Japan, USA etc.? In theory I agree with you that we get way too many low cost goods from developing countries, but in reality what is the answer?

There is no one "answer" that will solve it all. One possible suggestion, out of many, is to purchase a kit used. At least the money goes to another individual. I think about half of all the drum sets ever created are now on Craigslist, and the only thing steep about them is their tom angles. There are some great deals out there.

[chris_]

[QUOTE=The Executioner;139306] I cant see the thousands of dollars in price difference being justified. [QUOTE]


Hi,
If you pick the DW finish ply, they are only little higher then the Tama Starclassic Maple or similar price range, many don't know about this! they look at lacquer kit price and think the price is the same for all kit. a DW Collector 8 pc shell kit from the factory is only about 500$ more then the Tama sc Maple without reinforcement hoop, Tama charge more with the reinforcement hoop, so the price will be almost the same! I wanted a Tama starclassic maple first, but they take 5 month to order, I was looking for red color, they even don't have a red color on the maple!!! Tama does charge depend on the shell size 50$ to 200$ more if you want the 3ply reinforcement hoop!!!

DW take about 2 month, and I ordered a 10 pc DW kit finish ply, many choice of red color to select, got the DW wood option, VLT with 3ply reinforcement hoop, for tom with ESE and Xshell for the floor tom bass drum 3ply reinforcement hoop for no extra charge, there is tons of size available too and the DW wood option are all free of charge and have noticable difference on the sound, the higher DW kit price are with the laquer.

BTW there is noticable difference a bass drum with xshell and without, xshell is alot better for floor tom and bass drum, dw should create them as default on their line in my opinion.

All these wood option are free of charge
-All maple or all Birch
-VLT
-Built In bottom
-Xshell
-Bearing Edge option standard or ESE (optimize both overall tone and resonance)
-With or without 3ply reinforcement hoop

[Vaibhav "Cross" Gadade]

I totally disagree with your first sentence. In plenty of capitalist-type nations, workers are paid enough to feed their families, own a home and purchase consumer goods. Most of the "profit" goes to wages, taxes, insurance, benefits, environmental law compliance, research, raw materials, utilities and marketing (the "capital"). What's left over, if anything, goes to the people who own the company and stick their necks out to keep it going - a family, stockholders, whomever.

I don't know of ANY drums that are produced in non-capitalist systems. What I'm talking about is purchasing drums that came from a place where the workers were paid well and treated well and the environment protected. All three of those things happen in plenty of places on Earth, but you will have to pay more for it.


well...............it is a global economy and frankly speaking, every company is going to take advantage of low cost labour some place in the world. and that low cost labour is happy to have a job instead of having none at all and is feeding his/her family. i dont see him complaining any more than people who get decent pay but still wish for more.
also he is paid less if you compare it drectly to american wages. in his part of the world he may be actually earning a decent wage.

also, if you are talking about american money staying in america, then may be mcdonalds, coke, pepsi, pizzahut etc. should shut shop in the rest of the world and stop bringing in profits to america. may be we should stop buying turkish hand hammered cymbals even though they sound good.

global economy is something that we have to understand more deeply than just believeing in some fanatical patriotic speech. i dont claim to understand it either. but i dont want to buy an unaffordable kit and go in debt. buying used again aint going to help american manufacturers anyway.

the reason things are affordable and we are still able to buy drums, play music and in general feel happy and satisfied with our lives is because thankfully somewhere is costs less to manufacture.

[jadelvalle]

DW, Ludwig, Gretsch, Slingerland, (I think) OCDP, GMS, etc. There are a lot of American made drums out there, which I think is great for America.They all have "budget" lines like Renown, Accent, PDP, etc. Drum companies know drummers are gear heads and we each have our own little twisted reasons for buying what we buy. Where the American drum companies can cut cost is by making all the hardware in Taiwan. Unless I'm mistaken they all do that. I personally don't like the Japanese, Chinese, or the PDP made in mexico drums. I've played all of them and they sound more or less pretty good but I like to think the person who made my drums isn't miserable, lives in poverty, and took pride in my drums. I prefer to think the hands that made them belong to a craftsman. I like to support products that are made in the USA (whenever possible). Every drum maker has their own niche which each drummer likes. I love the DW shell design and their attention to detail. Gretsch have a particular sound and their wood finishes are gorgeous. Ludwigs have a warm sound and all that wonderful history. Brady snares sound outrageous. Premier drums sound beautiful and their chrome is second to none. Are DW's worth the cash? Hell Yeah! Like a beautiful woman...if she makes you happy, she's worth every penny! Buy what sounds good to your ears, and what you can afford.

[drumguyfromWI]

DW's are WAY overrated.

I played a friend's DW kit once, and it sounded good, but I don't think it was worth paying all that money for. I've heard drums that cost less than half the price of that DW kit sound just as good.

[dr.funkenstien]

Hey, I play DW's and I would say they're a ...bit overpriced. Not too much though, I love the sound of mine, when they're tuned up with new heads they sound just amazing. I still think they're worth their price though. If you want to hear my DW kit check this out --> www.myspace.com/brendancolamecodrums The snare is not DW it's a Pearl snare. It's not the greatest.

Peace
Brendan Colameco

[baz]

...I know what new dubs go for up here in my town.

I check out e-bay for dee dubs, and I am stunned at the prices that people are asking as starting bids, and buy it nows. In many cases, I could buy the same kit brand new in town for what some people are asking used. If these guys have a built in depreciation in mind when they are selling, then maybe dee dub is overpriced. Then again, maybe it depends on where you live.

If I could graph all the deedubs that I bought, new and used between 2002, and 2008 factoring in the relative value of 2002 dollars to 2008 dollars, the question of overpriced would be, hell no, yes, ouch yes, no, no, hmmmmm, no, no, hell no, sort of, and double hell no. That would average out to a "no" in my case.

I am trying to sell a DW kit right now. I have it on consignment in a local drum shop, but have had no bites. I have a feeling that I will get a low ball offer sometime after Christmas, in the hopes that I am desperate enough to fire sale them. If they do not sell, I don't really care. I have this evil plan that involves trading them in on a five piece one up two down DW classic kit that has been calling me every time I walk by it. Are they overpriced ? Hell yes!! Or at least they were. The price dropped by almost two thousand dollars from when they first arrived in the shop, which now has them priced almost a thousand dollars less than a tama starship bubinga wango tango kit in similar sizes. If I can't get a decent enough trade in for my kit then I will just keep them untill I do get my price.

I don't want to sound like I am slagging Asian drums, but aside from a a Yamaha RC, I could never see myself playing anything other than an American, or Canadian built kit. People in my age group drool over Slingerland, Gretsch, Ludwig, and Rogers, because they were and still are great sounding, well built quality drums. It is hard to predict what the future holds in store for many of the custom and boutique brands, but I believe that DW will be held in the same high regard as the afore mentioned classic American drum manufacturers. Then I will be able to say for certain that DW is not overpriced.

Barry

[trkdrmr]

My last word on this subject is that DW is unfairly singled out here. Other custom shops charge far more for less hardware.

I priced out an Ocheltree RCI acrylic snare, and came up with about $340 in parts, and it sells for over $800. while I could never justify such a thing, those that like the shell's decorations and the name get a warm fuzzy from ownership. It doesn't do anything that a DIY snare couldn't do for $340.

Back to DW. People are passionate about certain brands of drums. They are passionate to romantic levels about describing them. To the owners, it's drum bliss, and when you are totally enamored with a product like that, it's worth every penny.

Drums like DW have an "X" factor which some describe as a soul that is absent from a production line imported drum. There is also that feeling that "This drum kit was made specifically for me."

When someone gets that euphoric feeling, and that same feeling is still there years later, then it is absolutely worth the money.

That being said, I prefer a number of other drums, and DW doesn't carry that level of value to me personally.

[simple kit user]

I used to play DW Collector's Maple kit on stage albeit I've never owned one. In my opinion DW does have the quality for the price, but I'm sure this quality can be obtained in some other lower priced drums. I also played Ludwig Classic Maple with similar heads and I got the quality sound out of it. I also love the sound of Yamaha steel snare so much I don't want the "magical" DW and Ludwig snares anymore. My point is, they all have the quality albeit with their own distinctive tone characters, it's down to our personal tastes.

So are DW over priced? A bit, because I can get their quality in other lower priced brands soundwise. But I have to admit that DW's custom finishes are unmatched. I think that's the price difference is worth for. And don't forget people tend to pay a bit more for the pride of having a distinguished brand. You can't deny the pride of wearing a $200 shirt over a $20 one, can you?

[airsmunch1]

Global purchasing principles aside, DW are very good drums, hardware, and pedals. Are they "worth" the cost for that value? That question goes to means, desire, and taste.

If you have the means to buy the best, do it. If not, don't.

I can tell you this, I started playing drums in the early 80s and paid about $600 for a piece of crap Pearl Export with wrapped finishes instead of laquer. The mounts went through the drums, and the hardware had ratcheted tilters making a limited number of adjustments. For that same $600 last year, I bought a Gretsch Catalina Maple kit. Hardware was phenominal in comparison, sound of the all maple shells superior, and overall just a much better kit for the money.

Cost of quality is in the eyes of the beholder. Those companies that claim to be "all american" in manufacture, are likely forgetting that they buy products or services that either go into their product or support their product in some way from a foreign company likely an Asian company. That doesn't make them lessor in quality, just affordable. Gretsch used to be an all German made brand but now their drums are stamped "china" Go figure.

SO..... Cost of quality is in the eyes of the beholder. Support American companies if you can, but the bottom line is all companies utilize some foreign materials or services to support or develop their product.

I am a veteran, purchasing manager, american, dad, and a drummer. Rock on!
www.wolvesatthedoor.net

[RogerLudwig]

I would rather purchase a museum quality set of Rogers with a maple Dynasonic than spend the money on a set of old Camco's...I mean DW's

[PlaysforFun]

Someone wise said once that DW's are the Harley Davidson of drums......sure a honda will get you there just as fast, but it sure is more fun arriving on a HD.

[Steady Freddy]

Someone wise said once that DW's are the Harley Davidson of drums......sure a honda will get you there just as fast, but it sure is more fun arriving on a HD.

That's a pretty good analogy. I have a Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute and it's a great kit. I enjoy playing it, and it looks and sounds great.

That said, when I sit behind my DWs it just feels more serious.

Fantastic drums and hardware!

[rmandelbaum]

The question is subjective. You can argue for or against all day but what it boils down to is do you personally like them enough to pay for them?

any item is only worth as much someone is willing to pay for, and obviously many of us are more then willing to pay it. I did it twice ;-)

[trkdrmr]

The majority of complaints about this that I have read, seem to come from people that really can't afford them, and have no intention of buying them. They seem angry that the price is out of reach.

Like high-end audio, cost and value is relative and subjective. I know a guy that has two DW kits, probably over $14K in drums alone. He doesn't think twice about value because with his income, they don't put a dent in his budget. The only thing he agonizes over, is what finish and hardware to get on his new kit. He seems entirely comfortable with the expense, because it's what he wants. He won't own anything else. I think he just ordered a twist finish with gold hardware.

[SGT_Drummer]

I've read a good number of post in here, and all seem to be along the same line of thought, "This manufacturer is better and this is why". There have been some clever analogies (i love how the Porsche vs. Subaru evolved to be Porche vs. Subaru/Toyota/Nissan/ect.), so let me attempt to look at it from a different perspective.

The two conversations below are completely fictional, but picture being approached after a show and you being in this situation.

Conversation 1:
FanBoy: Thats an awesome sounding kit man, what is it?
You: Pearl
FanBoy: Oh nice! What series?
You: Masters
FanBoy: Awesome, those must have cost a fortune?
You; yeah

Converstaion 2:
FanBoy: Thats an awesome sounding kit man, what is it?
You: DW
FanBoy: ZOMFG! Those are expensive as hell!
You: Yeah


Now look at it this way, there have been some really good athletes that have played both Baseball and Football. Bo Jackson, Deon Sanders, ect. But noone remembers what those guys did, just that they played both sports. People remember the guys that played one sport, and played it well.

DW doesn't make beginner or intermediate level kits, they just make DWs. Are they better than the others? Possibly, it's more of a matter of personal opinion and there is no argument that can be presented to counter that. Theoretically, since DW only makes high end kits, they sound be better. But the bottom line is that it's your opinion and taste that determine what you think is the best. If your a rally racer you may even say that Subaru's are better than Porsches.

My next set is either going to be a DW or a Pearl Master series. Am I going to complain after I decide which one to get and buy it? No. Either way I'm getting an amazing kit that will hold up for years, have virtually unlimited possibilities, be built to my personal desires, and both will present the WOW! factor when using them in a gig setting.

But I am a life long Pearl fan that is slightly partial to DW. (hehe)

[Thunderhoof]

I bought a Gretsch Catalina Maple kit. Hardware was phenominal in comparison, sound of the all maple shells superior, and overall just a much better kit for the money.



I own a set of DW's, and am perfectly satisfied with them, but I would really love to have one of the kits you mentioned, I saw them on sale for this price, and have heard them, and your right, they are very nice for the price. I would like to buy one, but I spent all my money on DW's..;)

[CrocsaberSG12]

DW is, with all due respect, overrated. Like Mike Portnoy, it's far more name than quality.
In DW's defense, though, the only DW I've played had old Evans heads. Even then, the sound was... beyond horrible. The tuning was horrible, there was real resonance, and the tone was muddy.
Any drum set can sound great. Yes, even the $300 generic set. It's many factors together. However, a DW is supposed to have a great sound because it's "professional-grade". My beloved RMV sounds better than many a Tama I've heard. And it was way better than the DW. It's all personal taste, but DW has seriously disappointed me.

[Solaris]

DW is, with all due respect, overrated. Like Mike Portnoy, it's far more name than quality.
In DW's defense, though, the only DW I've played had old Evans heads. Even then, the sound was... beyond horrible. The tuning was horrible, there was real resonance, and the tone was muddy.
Any drum set can sound great. Yes, even the $300 generic set. It's many factors together. However, a DW is supposed to have a great sound because it's "professional-grade". My beloved RMV sounds better than many a Tama I've heard. And it was way better than the DW. It's all personal taste, but DW has seriously disappointed me.

With all due respect, you've only played one DW with shite, worn out heads. Even 10 grand kits can sound crap with old, detuned heads on them.

In my personal experience DW has never let me down. I've recently just recorded with my DWs in the same room that I've previously recorded with a Pearl Reference. They totally blew the Reference away, everything sounded so much deeper and fatter.

When you're dealing with kits of this level of craftsmanship, really the only distinction between companies is personal tastes in sound. A DW Collectors will sound different to a Sonor SQ2, which will sound different to a Pearl Reference, which will etc... Whatever your choice is, you'll be getting world class, handmade quality.

Except for Pearl...
They're made in Taiwan, and if you're paying that much for a kit you don't want it made in a developing country.

[Steamer]

Except for Pearl...
They're made in Taiwan, and if you're paying that much for a kit you don't want it made in a developing country.


Speaking of misinformation....

Taiwan has some of the most state of the art drum production facilities in the entire world. Hardly some developing country on the subject of drum building {?}

Better do some research on the subject or even better take a visit to Taiwan to see for yourself.

[aydee]

Stan, I'm so glad you interject at posts like this, because it represents an old status quo, no longer applicable or real.


A friend just returned from Shanghai ( works at the BMW factory ) and bought back pics. You have to see it to believe it.

Remember what the Datsun did to Detroit?

[Steamer]

Stan, I'm so glad you interject at posts like this, because it represents an old status quo, no longer applicable or real.


A friend just returned from Shanghai ( works at the BMW factory ) and bought back pics. You have to see it to believe it.

Remember what the Datsun did to Detroit?

Thanks Abe :}

Things are VERY different in the Taiwan of today compared to the Taiwan of a long gone yesteryear especially when it comes to the subject of drum building as only just ONE example.

Dems the facts..... :}

[aydee]

taiwan:
25861


Shanghai:
25863


Mumbai:
25862

[rmandelbaum]

I think is it amazing that no other brand spurs so much conversation.

[pearlygates]

Drum workshop makes good drums with excellent marketing (Cmon..ECO X?? LOL!) A bud of mine has 2 finish ply collector series kits that are literally falling apart and no matter what you do as far as head selection or tuning they just aren't right.

These could be exceptions to the rule, as I have played on a few dub kits that were very nice in build and sound...the holy grail of drums...? IMHO..prolly not.

I own a 4pc set of Gretsch Renown Purewood mahogany drums that would knock my friend's dubs right off the riser! lol
My Purewoods would make most dub kits duck and run for cover! "I N C O M I N G"...!!!!!!..but that is subject to sound preference.

I am not at all saying DW are not a nice set of drums, I just think that John Goode has hired a brilliant team on markrting guys to fluff up a really good brand into some be all end all in drums. just my 2cents.

peace

[SGT_Drummer]

I think is it amazing that no other brand spurs so much conversation.

i had never thought about that but you're completely right.

[Unix]

Except for Pearl...
They're made in Taiwan, and if you're paying that much for a kit you don't want it made in a developing country.


I suggest that you revised your view on this, almost all the hardware made in the drum bizz is made in Taiwan. I really think that DW have a super product, I really don't know why people are bashing them, but Pearl is the biggest company in the world.

As for Taiwan, I think they past the developing country status a long time ago. I think we are getting behing now.

[Cast]

if they sound good to you then fork out the cash. DW does make a quality product. Their finishes are awesome but I've never been a fan of the lugs or the badge.

[A-customs]

why eat a steak when a few slices of bread and a vitamin suppliment will keep you alive?

Fat Elvis.You hit the nail on the head.........I Always wanted DW kit and im waiting till i can pull the trigger......

[bobdadruma]

I've had the privilege of playing several DW kits over the past few years.
I liked every one of them that I played very much.
Are they worth the cash? I'm not sure. I don't think that they are. They really weren't better that many other high end kits that I have played.
I have played high end kits from every major manufacturer that were just as good sounding.
Many of them cost substantially less.

[jcgreen100]

We have all overpayed for everything that we have purchased as opposed to the cost of actually manufacturing the items. I am not bashing DW i think they are tremendous drums. My brother plays DW I play on an Orion kit. We both use identical remo heads even down to the 5 AB sticks. His Dw's dont sound any better than my Mapex in my opinion and he even admitted that to me. He stated that he realizes he payed for the name but really wanted a set of DW'S. If anyone plays DW'S and feels differently i want opinions from both sides. I cant see the thousands of dollars in price difference being justified. They do have a neat marketing scheme with their cute certificates with the sonic matching and wood harvesting techniques blah blah blah. But I cant see where they are all that better than a Starclassic, Absolute, Orion, or Reference series. What are your opinions are they really worth the extra cash? or are Dw's customers paying for the name badge and marketing schemes?

I played Slingerland 3 plys when they were new, giant Ludwigs when 26" bass drums were the rage, then I bought a set of Fibes when they first came out in 1970. I have played them ever since and still own them. I went to all the music shops to find a new set and played the DW collector series which sounded much better than any drums I have owned. I could not get used to the price and looked for alternatives. I found the Mapex Orions on line. I played some new ones and frankly couldn't see spending for those either. I ended up with a used set of Orions in birdseye maple. I recommend you look for a used set of whatever you like because the DWs are built to last as are the Orions, Masters, Gretsch, etc. for a long, long time. If I could have found DWs for $1000 used I would have bought them. In terms of what sounds better? Go to youtube and listen to players playing DW/Orions/Masters etc. You will figure it out. Whatever you buy if you buy the best quality you will love it.

[baz]

...are dee dubs overpriced?

I have bought and sold a few kits since my last post. To sum it all up, the drums that I bought were, the ones that I sold were not.

Barry

[larryace]

DW's are overpriced. So are Ferraris, Benz's..
I dropped close to 6 grand on exotic veneered DW's
Great drums, but I will never pay that much again.
Why do we fork over a lot of dough for good drums? Sound quality right?
Build your own, and save 50%, that's where I'm headed..
It's not rocket science getting a great drum sound. And you shouldn't have to spend over 3000 USD to get the kit of your dreams.
Most of my money went to pay for the finish. Last time I checked, the finish doesn't affect the sound. But it was my choice to part with that much coin so I won't cry about them being overpriced, I knew that going in.

[keep it simple]

I've played a few DW sets in my time, and they've all sounded good. This was mainly due to the set owners knowing something about head selection & tuning than anything else. I think the product quality is good with an excellent range of finishes, but I've never been motivated to buying a set. Dw make good stuff, so do Sonor & a whole mass of specialist makers. As for production quality, I really do believe it's hard to beat Sonor. And yes Larry, making your own high end set is perfectly feasible for someone with average hand skills. As you pointed out, a lot of the money's in the finishing.

I have no problem with the price of high end kits. A manufacturer will get the highest price point they can achieve, and who can blame them. If players are happy to pay the price in sufficient numbers, then good luck to them. The only thing I have an issue with is the use of the term "best", applied to almost anything. We all know there is no such thing as best in something as subjective as a drum kit. There's only one observation conclusion I can make with some certainty. I've heard more bad sounding DW's than all other high end kit makes put together. Why? No insight into that other than DW's aspirational status amongst younger players who may well have access to the cash, but lack the experience to select correct heads & tune them.

[pearlygates]

I've played a few DW sets in my time, and they've all sounded good. This was mainly due to the set owners knowing something about head selection & tuning than anything else. I think the product quality is good with an excellent range of finishes, but I've never been motivated to buying a set. Dw make good stuff, so do Sonor & a whole mass of specialist makers. As for production quality, I really do believe it's hard to beat Sonor. And yes Larry, making your own high end set is perfectly feasible for someone with average hand skills. As you pointed out, a lot of the money's in the finishing.

I have no problem with the price of high end kits. A manufacturer will get the highest price point they can achieve, and who can blame them. If players are happy to pay the price in sufficient numbers, then good luck to them. The only thing I have an issue with is the use of the term "best", applied to almost anything. We all know there is no such thing as best in something as subjective as a drum kit. There's only one observation conclusion I can make with some certainty. I've heard more bad sounding DW's than all other high end kit makes put together. Why? No insight into that other than DW's aspirational status amongst younger players who may well have access to the cash, but lack the experience to select correct heads & tune them.

This is a very informed and excellent post IMO.

[Meat the beat]

Comes down to one thing...
You want DW's you go select what you want and pay for it. For me its the best money I ever spent on drums, & has brought me hours & hours of pure enjoyment. If I played golf I would have parted with far more money for the enjoyment my Collectors series has given me over the 11 years I've owned them...

Oh & Taipei 101 is really worth a visit too!!!!

[Fiery]

And when you think about it, everything you buy has been made by a worker who hasn't been paid enough for his/her job (no matter where he/she lives). It is the way the economic system works.

A worker creates a drum (just an example). The capitalist pays this worker just as much to still profit from having that worker create the drum --- ie. less than what that worker actually worked for.

Not saying this is good, but you should be aware of it.
This is not completely true.

Ideally, the worker is paid the amount his work is worth. The "capitalist" (that is, the business owner) is paid (through making profit) for providing work to the worker. The owner is the one who risks his belongings to make a product, not the worker. Of course, workers are often paid less than their work is worth, but that's another problem.

[Homeularis]

Hey DW fans, I spotted a new 4 piece DW Collectors Series drumkit in silver sparkle wrap at a little local shop going for $1,675.00. It was made in 2005 so its obviously been sitting there stacked up for 4 or 5 years. Still, seems like a great deal.
Drums only, standard sizes, virgin bd, No snare, no hardware, no tom mounts.

Have DW CS's changed at all in the last five years?. Are 2005's any different than 2010's ?.

Does this deal seem too good to be true or does it sound about right?.
Should I jump all over it?.

I would have to sell my brand new Sonor 3007's to pull it off but it might be worth it.

Someone please help !. Im freakin out here !. lol

[Skitch]

Drum workshop makes good drums with excellent marketing (Cmon..ECO X?? LOL!) A bud of mine has 2 finish ply collector series kits that are literally falling apart and no matter what you do as far as head selection or tuning they just aren't right.

These could be exceptions to the rule, as I have played on a few dub kits that were very nice in build and sound...the holy grail of drums...? IMHO..prolly not.

I own a 4pc set of Gretsch Renown Purewood mahogany drums that would knock my friend's dubs right off the riser! lol
My Purewoods would make most dub kits duck and run for cover! "I N C O M I N G"...!!!!!!..but that is subject to sound preference.

I am not at all saying DW are not a nice set of drums, I just think that John Goode has hired a brilliant team on markrting guys to fluff up a really good brand into some be all end all in drums. just my 2cents.

peace



No, I am sorry, I just don't buy the story of "my friends DWs are junk". If I have ever had a problem with one of my DW kits, it always been taken care of usually at DW expense.

Now as far as their discontinuing the use of Keller shells, DW wanted more control in quality, contruction and design of their drums. Think about this, all "DWs overpriced conspiracy theorists", if everyone is using Keller shells, why should I go out and buy a Gretsch drum kit if another company uses exaclty the same shells Gretsch does? Now, who's ripping the consumer off because of marketing? Same shell, different name on the shell - just Gretsch capitalizing on their brand name! So the "average drum with great marketing" just doesn't wash with me. By the way, Rogers used to do quite a bit of the same marketing that DW employs, but DW is dead serious about protecting their Intellectual property! This is why you can't buy their lugs from them; they are protecting their brand and quality assurance! Think about knock off clothing for a second and you'll get the idea!

Enter the argument about the "much preferred Keller shell"! You pretty much get the same shell everyone else gets - the average drumshell be it good, bad.....whatever.

John Good wanted total control in the drum making process because he lives and breathes wood! He wakes up at night thinking about how to make drums better; in his own words, his job is "to put smiles on people's faces".

You like vintage drums but want them to be round? John's figured out a way to do that. Like Mohogany, Rosewood or Pine? John has a way of working with those woods. Want an 8" tom which actually resonates instead of sounding choked? John has figured out a shell construction which makes your 8" tom sound more in character with your 18" tom. I didn't say sound like an 18", I said in character, like it belongs to the kit it's in and this goes beyond the Timbre matching, into shell ply construction and compostion! Do you get that with the "much preferred Keller shell"? I didn't think so! You get the same shell everyone esle gets, including Gretsch!

What I am not saying - I am not saying that DW is the ultimate, end all be all of drum craftsmanship; there are some great drums out there as I used a set of Yamaha Maple Custom Absolutes on a tour last year - they sounded great!

And before anyone starts the "He's a paid endorser" thing, I actually paid for my DWs because I worked very long hours to be able to do so, as I continue to work long hours! When I got my WMP DWs, I felt like I was thirteen again - only I could actually play. the first song I played was "Low Down" by Boz Skaggs. It was a great day for me!

Sure, there is a price tag to anything and like a Ferrari mentioned elsewhere in this thread, some people can afford to hand the keys to a Ferrari to a 16 year old; life isn't fair!
not every drummer just starting out needs a DW drumkit to play on. Some people have that luxury, some don't! I worked for and earned mine and I don't regret it!

John Good and JR Robinson are doing a tour right now and if you get the chance, go see it! JG can explain all of this stuff much better than I can,

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
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http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
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http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemccraw
http://twitter.com/mikemccraw

[pearlygates]

No, I am sorry, I just don't buy the story of "my friends DWs are junk". If I have ever had a problem with one of my DW kits, it always been taken care of usually at DW expense.

Now as far as their discontinuing the use of Keller shells, DW wanted more control in quality, contruction and design of their drums. Think about this, all "DWs overpriced conspiracy theorists", if everyone is using Keller shells, why should I go out and buy a Gretsch drum kit if another company uses exaclty the same shells Gretsch does? Now, who's ripping the consumer off because of marketing? Same shell, different name on the shell - just Gretsch capitalizing on their brand name! So the "average drum with great marketing" just doesn't wash with me. By the way, Rogers used to do quite a bit of the same marketing that DW employs, but DW is dead serious about protecting their Intellectual property! This is why you can't buy their lugs from them; they are protecting their brand and quality assurance! Think about knock off clothing for a second and you'll get the idea!

Enter the argument about the "much preferred Keller shell"! You pretty much get the same shell everyone else gets - the average drumshell be it good, bad.....whatever.

John Good wanted total control in the drum making process because he lives and breathes wood! He wakes up at night thinking about how to make drums better; in his own words, his job is "to put smiles on people's faces".

You like vintage drums but want them to be round? John's figured out a way to do that. Like Mohogany, Rosewood or Pine? John has a way of working with those woods. Want an 8" tom which actually resonates instead of sounding choked? John has figured out a shell construction which makes your 8" tom sound more in character with your 18" tom. I didn't say sound like an 18", I said in character, like it belongs to the kit it's in and this goes beyond the Timbre matching, into shell ply construction and compostion! Do you get that with the "much preferred Keller shell"? I didn't think so! You get the same shell everyone esle gets, including Gretsch!

What I am not saying - I am not saying that DW is the ultimate, end all be all of drum craftsmanship; there are some great drums out there as I used a set of Yamaha Maple Custom Absolutes on a tour last year - they sounded great!

And before anyone starts the "He's a paid endorser" thing, I actually paid for my DWs because I worked very long hours to be able to do so, as I continue to work long hours! When I got my WMP DWs, I felt like I was thirteen again - only I could actually play. the first song I played was "Low Down" by Boz Skaggs. It was a great day for me!

Sure, there is a price tag to anything and like a Ferrari mentioned elsewhere in this thread, some people can afford to hand the keys to a Ferrari to a 16 year old; life isn't fair!
not every drummer just starting out needs a DW drumkit to play on. Some people have that luxury, some don't! I worked for and earned mine and I don't regret it!

John Good and JR Robinson are doing a tour right now and if you get the chance, go see it! JG can explain all of this stuff much better than I can,

Mike

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Cool, but ehh.. DWs are just good drums. Still doesn't justify 6k for some fancy veneer.. Peace

[audiotech]

[QUOTE=Skitch;734267]No, I am sorry, I just don't buy the story of "my friends DWs are junk". If I have ever had a problem with one of my DW kits, it always been taken care of usually at DW expense.

John Good wanted total control in the drum making process because he lives and breathes wood! He wakes up at night thinking about how to make drums better; in his own words, his job is "to put smiles on people's faces".

What I am not saying - I am not saying that DW is the ultimate, end all be all of drum craftsmanship; there are some great drums out there as I used a set of Yamaha Maple Custom Absolutes on a tour last year - they sounded great!

John Good and JR Robinson are doing a tour right now and if you get the chance, go see it! JG can explain all of this stuff much better than I can,

Mike


There is a lot of hype about DW drums, but as said above, they are not junk. A bit high in price on some of their models, but every kit I've played sounded very good. The last few kits that I bought all included DW drums in my auditions, but at the time I just came away with a sound that was more to my liking in direct comparisons. I met John Good twice and believe him to be one of the most knowledgeable persons when it comes to drum shell technology. While at the tour, I fell in love with a four piece "Classic Series" kit in Blue Glass FinishPly that I wouldn't mind having. Maybe soon.

BTW, John has one stop left on his tour with Billy West.

These are a couple of photos with John and Billy from this past weekend. These were taken from across the room, so the quality is a bit low.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n44/F-64/IMG_0448-1-1.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n44/F-64/IMG_0447-1-1.jpg

They gave away the DW snare that is shown in the bottom right corner of the last picture.

Dennis

[BrewBillfold]

DW is dead serious about protecting their Intellectual property! This is why you can't buy their lugs from them; they are protecting their brand and quality assurance! I've never owned any DWs, but what do you do if you need to replace a lug, then? If it would be a hassle to replace a lug, that would make me hesitate to buy DW . . . although I do accept that with vintage stuff, at least, it might be difficult to find replacement parts. You like vintage drums but want them to be round?I have to say that I've only played round drums, but if someone had been making square or triangular drums that I didn't know about, I'd be interested in checking them out. (I have played cajons, by the way.)Want an 8" tom which actually resonates instead of sounding choked? John has figured out a shell construction which makes your 8" tom sound more in character with your 18" tom. I didn't say sound like an 18", I said in character, like it belongs to the kit it's in and this goes beyond the Timbre matching, into shell ply construction and compostion! I actually like drums that sound quite different from each other. I don't want everything to blend in together. I want a bunch of different timbres and pitch ranges.

[BrewBillfold]

There is a lot of hype about DW drums, but as said above, they are not junk. I agree with that sentiment. The most ingenious thing about the company in my eyes is how aggressively they've gone after both very high profile "general public" drummers and "drummer's drummers", so that it sometimes seems like almost everyone is playing DW, which cashes in on all of the folks who feel a compulsion to be in with the in crowd, and there are a lot of those. Tama took a similar approach in the late 70s/early 80s, and shortly after them, Yamaha.

[pearlygates]

I agree with that sentiment. The most ingenious thing about the company in my eyes is how aggressively they've gone after both very high profile "general public" drummers and "drummer's drummers", so that it sometimes seems like almost everyone is playing DW, which cashes in on all of the folks who feel a compulsion to be in with the in crowd, and there are a lot of those. Tama took a similar approach in the late 70s/early 80s, and shortly after them, Yamaha.

I don't want my posts to be misconstrued as somehow bashing the DW brand. I think that they are making great drums albeit a tad overpriced.. But good drums nonetheless. I think DW employs a genius marketing team to promote a good product.
The ECOX is clever if not a tad laughable.. But there again... Good marketing.

[audiotech]

I'll let you know for sure.

Dennis

[Skitch]

Actually the thread was started by the Executioner (who plays Mapex and his brother plays DW) and he felt his Mapex was every bit as good a kit as a DW kit. And it got ugly. Another side to the game is, if you want a DW kit real bad, they're all over eBay. You can save yourself some big dough, and it's probably a safe bet that most DW owners don't flog their equipment.

Thanks for the inside scoop, Harry!



Mike

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[Skitch]

I've never owned any DWs, but what do you do if you need to replace a lug, then? If it would be a hassle to replace a lug, that would make me hesitate to buy DW . . . although I do accept that with vintage stuff, at least, it might be difficult to find replacement parts. I have to say that I've only played round drums, but if someone had been making square or triangular drums that I didn't know about, I'd be interested in checking them out. (I have played cajons, by the way.)I actually like drums that sound quite different from each other. I don't want everything to blend in together. I want a bunch of different timbres and pitch ranges.

I guess you mistreat your drums so badly (what do you mean dynamics - I'm playing as loud as I can play!) that you are breaking lugs? How many lugs have you broken and then that makes wonder how many cymbals you have cracked if you are breaking lugs! You may want to lighten up a little then. The only lug I have ever seen broken was because a drummer tightened his tension rods way past the point of what would be acceptable.

The point is about round drums is that most vintage drums tend to be out of round and this is due to the fact that drum building has come along way since the 1960s with techniques like heat compression molds to form shells.

I get from your tone about this subject that there will never be anything good enough to sway your opinion about the subject.

Mike

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[Skitch]

I agree with that sentiment. The most ingenious thing about the company in my eyes is how aggressively they've gone after both very high profile "general public" drummers and "drummer's drummers", so that it sometimes seems like almost everyone is playing DW, which cashes in on all of the folks who feel a compulsion to be in with the in crowd, and there are a lot of those. Tama took a similar approach in the late 70s/early 80s, and shortly after them, Yamaha.

What drums are you playing on anyway? The "in crowd" right now is going with vintage gear - Ludwigs, Slingerlands and Rogers and don't forget Gretsch! Tama pretty much gave stuff to everybody in the 1970s because they were just trying desperately to get into the market! Yamaha never had a problem after getting Steve Gadd as an endorser in the early 1980s and Yamaha recording customs were more expensive than a new set of Ludwigs! Yamaha pretty much blew everyone away in the 1980s with their much superior craftsmanship n everything right down to the wing nuts!


The American companies pretty much became their own worst enemies at that point. Ludwig went to the 6 ply Molded shell from the 3 ply with reinforcement rings (which DWs sound amazing like). Lost was the bottom end out of the drums, according to many of the guys who were around at that time, like Bermuda, who have attested to this. Rogers sold out to CBS, who in their infintie wisdom, tried to run a drum company exactly like a guitar company called Fender.

Gretsch remained totally mismanaged (not much has changed). And all of these companies went to making "power toms" giving us deeper toms, trying to recapture the low end which was lost from making cheaper drums without giving cheaper prices.


Pearl was made pretty much by the arrogance of the sales people at Rogers after CBS took over and began telling Professional Drum Shop in Hollywood what they were going to order. After throwing the Rogers rep out, they called Walt Johnston at Pearl and then it was Pearl's chance to gain a considerable foothold in the drumming world! Don't you ever wonder about how all of these things happened? Down the tubes went Rogers and new on the scene was Pearl drums with a great, highy visible endorser, Peter Criss of the band, KISS. Pretty much made Pearl a force to be reconned with, wouldn't you say? But I guess that Pearl was overpriced and over-rated for having such connections - LOL!

Gretsch would never "give" anything away - even to Neil Peart (who could have saved Gretsch single-handly in the 1980s)!

I just think it is interesting that I never hear anyone complain how overpriced Grestch is when they don't even make their own shells! They use the "much preferred Keller shells". Maybe Keller ought to start making drums to compete with Gretsch since the shell is one and the same.

Mike

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[Skitch]

Cool, but ehh.. DWs are just good drums. Still doesn't justify 6k for some fancy veneer.. Peace

Depends on the laws of economics;

When supply is high demand is low and when demand is high supply is low. And I am not talking about drums here, I am talking about the wood. The fancy veneer, as you put it, is in demand not just by DW but by other companies who use that wood as well - like high-end custom furniture builders. Or the wood which comprised the "Timeless Timbre" kits DW produced; every musical instrument manufacturer, not just DW, wanted some of that wood, not to mention other companies which use wood to make their products.

One other law, which you may or may not like - he who has the gold, makes the rules.....

I don't necessarily like this law myself but if someone has the money to pay for a 6 piece Tamo Ash Lacquer finished drum kit, who am I to complain! I just want to know how he made that money to be able to afford it! Just like someone who has the money (or credit) to buy a Corvette or a Porsche.

You will never have enough justice and equilty in this world; some people like Steven Segal collects guitars because he can afford to. Is it fair? I don't know; I wasn't there when Steven was cutting his teeth in an acting career, eating Ramen Noodle soup for every meal becuase he lived in "nobody can afford to live in" Hollywood. Or when Garth Brooks was sleeping in the van will four other band members who hadn't showered for a week.

As far as the endorsment game goes, which what I think much of this is about, a company makes products to make an (obscene-lol) profit. This profit is hopefully big enough to keep the company's doors open so that you and I can have drums to play on or complain about, in this case. this sometimes involves using high profile people to help them sell their products. High profile doesn't necessarily mean "the most talented best drummer ever bar none and you will never be this good". Some people are good and some people are just plain lucky! A guy like Bermuda is a smart, good guy who has worked his tail off and doesn't have a "roskstar" mentality!

Luck runs out eventually and you should never take it that just because you aren't in an endorsement deal doesn't mean that you don't have talent!

The smart guys and some of the experienced (has-beens) have had to recently reinvent themselves in order to just survive. Some of these guys are thought of to be millionaires and they aren't - especially if they are living in LA due to the high taxes in California.

The funny (odd) part about DW is that they got their breaks in small increments like no one in the Rock arena played DW before 1996. In 1994 and 1995, DW was the drums Country drummers were using as evidenced by the Country drummers using them on every awards show which involved music! This may have been due to Larry Londin's using and endorsing them!

I am sorry that I have gone off on a rabbit trail here (or wabbit if you're Elmer Fudd and the diwectow is wubbing you the wong way!), but I fel that these are issues whicvh needed to be addressed.

I paid for both of my DW kits, both are finishply kits. I bought the best drums which my budget allowed for (it didn't allow for the Tamo Ash exotic).

I run five businesses and can sympathize with a company which constantly gets beat up because I too have to make a profit!

Mike

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[Skitch]

Cool, but ehh.. DWs are just good drums. Still doesn't justify 6k for some fancy veneer.. Peace

I juat noticed that you advertise for Dream cymbals. Do you know where Dream cymbals are made? China with cheap labor funded by the Communist Chinese government because the Chinese government funds businesses. In this way, the government can say who gets to own a business (their friends and buddies) and who doesn't (anyone with out connections)!

Mike

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[Les Ismore]

Cool, but ehh.. DWs are just good drums. Still doesn't justify 6k for some fancy veneer.. Peace


DW's take on it is (most) 100% exotic ply drums don't sound as good as maple with an exotic finish ply.... they're probably right, I'm sure they tried em out.

Then I'm also pretty sure If you put your own exotic veneer (http://www.veneeronline.com/) on (or even paid a pro) it'd most likely come-out to less than $6,000.00



Maybe Keller ought to start making drums to compete with Gretsch since the shell is one and the same.


KELLER makes shells for GRETSCH per their specs, which are different than the KELLER stuff you can buy from suppliers (like PRECISION DRUM etc.).

[Artstar]

The funny (odd) part about DW is that they got their breaks in small increments like no one in the Rock arena played DW before 1996.

Hmmmm... I remember hanging around backstage and at house parties around 1991with both Sean Kinney (along with Layne Staley as well) (Alice In Chains) and Stephen Perkins (Janes Addiction) and BOTH were touring with DW at that time. Tommy Lee had beat them to it by a year or so also playing DW around 90', I think.

[Artstar]

KELLER makes shells for GRETSCH per their specs, which are different than the KELLER stuff you can buy from suppliers (like PRECISION DRUM etc.).

They do, as in the plies are thicker, so possibly a different original wood supplier ??

[Bo Eder]

Good God a four year old thread! Has the OP found the answer he was looking for?
He must be four years smarter by now and figured out that it doesn't make any difference...

Play what you want, always. All it takes is money.

[funkytomtom]

Well I'll toss in my two cents as I just pulled the trigger on a new DW kit. I initially went in looking for a Yamaha as I like their sound and quality, but was steered away by one major thing.
When you're paying for a kit in this price range, you might as well get exactly what you want. I wanted a one off size bass drum (15x24) that Yamaha doesn't offer. Also, my finish options are much wider. I went with a simple orange burst glass finish (orange sparkle) anyways, but for some people this can be a huge difference.
The price was also not astronomically high. I think a lot of what you pay for with DW is custom finish options. Some of the more exotic finishes double the price of a kit and even the lacquer finishes cost more than standard. Going with a plastic wrap, I think the price is very reasonable.
I ordered 15x24 bass, 13x10 rack tom (to be mounted on a snare stand), and 16x16 floor tom. I'm pretty excited and I KNOW that they're going to be killer. I payed under 2400 dollars for it, so I fail to see the issue.

[Les Ismore]

3 plastic wrapped drums (bass, tom ,fl tom) for $2,400? Maybe not 'astronomically high', but certainly up there.

[funkytomtom]

3 plastic wrapped drums (bass, tom ,fl tom) for $2,400? Maybe not 'astronomically high', but certainly up there.

Up there for sure...but I think you're missing what I was saying. I got a kit sized exactly how I wanted it; which for me is a big difference. I was getting pretty comparable quotes for other drums that live in that price (and quality) strata. But again; DW offers a lot of options other companies do not.

Or maybe I'm a fan-boy now? Hahaha...

[harryconway]

I payed under 2400 dollars for it, so I fail to see the issue.Indeed, there is no issue, until someone (who's bored, I guess) makes it an issue. And then you get the inflamatory comments/nonsense/rumors like DW kits costing $6K. Ah, yeah, sure, I guess, if you order enough drums...

I was just in Pasadena's Guitar Cemter today. They had two "gently used" DW lits. One was $2199, and one was $2499. Add those to a list of 11 "used" DW kits I've seen, running from $910, up to $3000. If I had bought my Yamaha Recording Customs new, they would have cost "around" $2300. Worth it? Not worth it? What's the issue? Fact of the matter, I landed a kit off eBay, for $995. I like used drums. I'd rather buy "used", than "new". I think a 17+ year old kit has more soul than a brand new kit. Certainly not the way "everyone" wants to roll, that's cool. Works for me. And me is the only person I really have to make happy.

[gwbaker]

I second the 'used' sentiment. I'd decided I wanted a DW Classics and found one in broken glass... which really appealed to me. I test drove it and was totally convinced. I even drove for 3 hours to check it out and it was love at first sight.... err... sound. It was 24" bd, 13" tom, 16" floor tom with a 5.5" X 14" matching 'Edge' snare. It was like brand new... not a flaw and came with all enduro cases. Total $2350. Absolutely no regrets. The DW Classic Series are just stunning. If you set your sights and are patient and lucky.... USED is the way to go.

[audiotech]

I second the 'used' sentiment. I'd decided I wanted a DW Classics and found one in broken glass... which really appealed to me. I test drove it and was totally convinced. I even drove for 3 hours to check it out and it was love at first sight.... err... sound. It was 24" bd, 13" tom, 16" floor tom with a 5.5" X 14" matching 'Edge' snare. It was like brand new... not a flaw and came with all enduro cases. Total $2350. Absolutely no regrets. The DW Classic Series are just stunning. If you set your sights and are patient and lucky.... USED is the way to go.

They are great drums. I never really cared for the sound of the Collectors series, but these hit the nail on the head. I bought mine last Saturday. Although new, I believe they are worth every penny. I have the 22 x 16" bass drum, 16 x 16" floor tom, 12 x 8' rack tom and a 5 1/2 x 14" matching snare. The finish is in "Blue Glass" FinishPly and they sound absolutely fantastic. I got a few extras with mine including a bass mounted 770 cymbal arm, STM rack tom mount and the rail mounting system. I'll be ordering the 14 x 14" floor tom soon.

Are they worth it, if you want them they are.

Dennis

[gwbaker]

I too got the cymbal arm (though shortened, lowers the ride) and the rail mount, as well. They are special. I also have the feeling that the Jazz Series is quite something, though no first hand exposure. I keep hearing great things about them. I've heard some Collectors sound nice and some... not so good.

[Chonson]

I too got the cymbal arm (though shortened, lowers the ride) and the rail mount, as well. They are special. I also have the feeling that the Jazz Series is quite something, though no first hand exposure. I keep hearing great things about them. I've heard some Collectors sound nice and some... not so good.

Said it before, will say it again: the Jazz series is hands down the best thing DW is doing today, and might be my favorite kit in current production.

Classics are also killer. The big rounded bearing edges make the sound great.

On Collectors - I've got my set and I've noticed that a lot of guys I know have fits with the 12" tom on their kits. Remo heads sometimes don't sit nice on the edge (but of course, no surprise, the DW heads sit fine). You can try other heads, or you can do the easiest trick of them all - hit the head with a hair dryer or heat gun real quick when tuning the drum to loosen up the collar and let it seat better on the drum. Great thing to try if there's a drum not agreeing with your attempts to tune. (For whatever reason this is most commonly on the 12 and not really anything else. Who knows why.)

re the topic, I don't know if I've responded previously. If they're the sound for you, sure, go for 'em. DW - all three series - are distinct sounds. If you were doing studio work you might want to have some options on sound - modern, classic, tubby, something else. Find out what sounds you like in person and on record, learn a much about how they were made, and try and reproduce that.

I love my collectors' and jazz series, but they're not the right voice for everyone. If you wanted a recording custom sound or an old ludwig or slingerland sound, those wouldn't be the right kits for you. I think a lot of people dig the aura around DW but if it doesn't have the sound you want, it just isn't going to be the right kit. (A Telecaster isn't a Les Paul, and vice versa).

[Drumalltheway]

Lots of false premises there. First of all, Buckwheat, I don't "chirp on." Maybe you do. Second, I've never said anything that could reasonably be interpreted as hating DW. Frankly the idea of hating a drum company is just stupid. I do think that there are better sounding, better quality, drums available, for less money: Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, Fibes, Tempus, among others. I'm happy for anyone who is happy with their DW drums. They're good drums. But, they're overrated and badly overpriced. I've stated my reasons a half a dozen times on this forum and see no reason to repeat them all, but, I will say that DW's have a very limited tuning range and choke out badly at higher tunings and the fit and finish is just not that good or consistent. (In fact, DW's sounded better when they were using Keller shells). For a little more money you could actually get your money's worth and buy a Sonor Designer kit and have the Rolls Royce of drumkits and not have to settle for a Porche. Finally, the drums I play are the drums I choose to play. If I thought DW's were the best sounding drums, then I would play DW's.


Well Put. I too think there are better sounding drums and quality than DW.

[funkytomtom]

I don't go for the porsche vs. rolls royce argument. I would much much rather drive a porsche than a rolls royce. Rolls are super nice, even nicer in some ways, but for a [I]driver's[I] car, you would want the porsche.

[pearlygates]

I juat noticed that you advertise for Dream cymbals. Do you know where Dream cymbals are made? China with cheap labor funded by the Communist Chinese government because the Chinese government funds businesses. In this way, the government can say who gets to own a business (their friends and buddies) and who doesn't (anyone with out connections)!

Mike

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Yeah.. I guess your right there.. sad but dreams are every bit as good or better sounding (with a 2 year breakage warranty) than my high end Zildjians were..
Oh yeah.. and watch for some of the DW stuff to come out of Mexico.. I hear they pay those workers well!

[keep it simple]

DW's tend to suffer at the hands of their own marketing success. Frequently bought by cash rich/experience poor drummers, who couldn't tune a rototom, then concentrate on how good it looks, & that badge. Other drummers then get to hear said kits, in all their lack of glory, & come to the conclusion they look great but sound like crap.

Nothing could be further from the truth. DW make good drums, so do many others. Worth the money? If you want one, & it makes you smile, yes. Are they the best? Awe, c'mon, best doesn't exist. I do have a couple of drummer friends who've had tuneup issues with their DW's, & these guys know what they're doing. DW drums aren't really for me, but I do have a few pieces of their hardware, & all but one piece has had structural weakness problems. Nothing huge, but annoying considering the price paid. In the round, I am picking up a mild inconsistency issue with the brand.

[Skitch]

Cool, but ehh.. DWs are just good drums. Still doesn't justify 6k for some fancy veneer.. Peace


DW's take on it is (most) 100% exotic ply drums don't sound as good as maple with an exotic finish ply.... they're probably right, I'm sure they tried em out.

Then I'm also pretty sure If you put your own exotic veneer (http://www.veneeronline.com/) on (or even paid a pro) it'd most likely come-out to less than $6,000.00



Maybe Keller ought to start making drums to compete with Gretsch since the shell is one and the same.


KELLER makes shells for GRETSCH per their specs, which are different than the KELLER stuff you can buy from suppliers (like PRECISION DRUM etc.).

Yeah....I knew once I started smacking around the sacred cow by the name of Gretsch, someone would scream bloody murder! It's diferent when it's Gretsch right? A poorly managed company which, once they get an endorser, do everything they can to run him off to someone like Sonor! Or slam the phone on Neil Peart! Yeah, Gretsch can do no wrong! Sorry to make you think about it for 5 seconds - lol!

Keller isn't owned by Gretsch and they can do whatever they want. Therefore they can make those shells available to whoever they want - perhaps like Fibes? Those shells were very similiar at one point.


And while we're talking about free thought and open-mindedness, why don't we ever hear anyone complaining about how expensive GMS and Noble & Cooley are. I guess it's cool to bash only companies which make a profit!


Mike

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[Les Ismore]

Keller isn't owned by Gretsch and they can do whatever they want. Therefore they can make those shells available to whoever they want - perhaps like Fibes? Those shells were very similiar at one point.


KELLER'S relationship with GRETSCH goes way back, they're tighter with GRETSCH than any other co. Its highly doubtful another company is going to request the same formula as GRETSCH, and KELLER is not gonna pimp GRETSCH'S 'formula' like candy.


Aand while we're talking about free thought and open-mindedness, why don't we ever hear anyone complaining about how expensive GMS and Noble & Cooley are. I guess it's cool to bash only companies which make a profit!




GMS machines their own lugs out of solid brass, you won't see this from DW, or LUDWIG etc.

GMS and NC - higher quality materials, so higher price.

[Skitch]

Yeah.. I guess your right there.. sad but dreams are every bit as good or better sounding (with a 2 year breakage warranty) than my high end Zildjians were..
Oh yeah.. and watch for some of the DW stuff to come out of Mexico.. I hear they pay those workers well!

Yeah,

The Pacific line is made in Mexico.

Mike

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[Skitch]

Keller isn't owned by Gretsch and they can do whatever they want. Therefore they can make those shells available to whoever they want - perhaps like Fibes? Those shells were very similiar at one point.


KELLER'S relationship with GRETSCH goes way back, they're tighter with GRETSCH than any other co. Its highly doubtful another company is going to request the same formula as GRETSCH, and KELLER is not gonna pimp GRETSCH'S 'formula' like candy.


You sound certain of this! Are you a Gretsch stockholder? Fibes shell was very similiar at one point - money talks!

Sorry I stepped on your tender sensibilities here Les; I pretty much agree with everything you usually have to say, but bashing a brand just because they make money, well...I just can't go along with that. I mean not every company can be run as badly as Fred and Dinah Gretsch have run theirs! Slamming the phone on Neil Peart? Might as well say - "Yes, I would love to have my foot sawed off rather than shot!"


Mike

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[Les Ismore]

Slamming the phone on Neil Peart? Might as well say - "Yes, I would love to have my foot sawed off rather than shot!"




So what did Neil Peart say to GRETSCH?

[AudioWonderland]

Slamming the phone on Neil Peart? Might as well say - "Yes, I would love to have my foot sawed off rather than shot!"




So what did Neil Peart say to GRETSCH?

"Goodbye" if memory serves

[Les Ismore]

"Goodbye" if memory serves


'If' GRETSCH slammed the phone down on him, Peart probably didn't have the chance to say "goodbye".

[zakhopper316]

I think DW drums are overpriced and exhibit the same quality as all other high-end multi ply drums. They don't sound or project anywhere near as good as Craviotto drums do IMO. I think when you buy a DW you are paying more for the name then any other company. They are still high end drums and sound good but are not worth it to me.

[Bo Eder]

I think DW drums are overpriced and exhibit the same quality as all other high-end multi ply drums. They don't sound or project anywhere near as good as Craviotto drums do IMO. I think when you buy a DW you are paying more for the name then any other company. They are still high end drums and sound good but are not worth it to me.

Aren't the Craviotto drums a bit more expensive than DWs? I thought they were.

And, has anyone found out what the OP actually did? Did he get a set of DWs? Or did he get something else?

[audiotech]

As far as I know, the retail price of my DW Classic kit is about half the retail price of a Craviotto set of drums.

That is a considerable difference.

Dennis

[Skitch]

Slamming the phone on Neil Peart? Might as well say - "Yes, I would love to have my foot sawed off rather than shot!"




So what did Neil Peart say to GRETSCH?

He didn't say anything to Gretsch....he said "Hello" to Ludwig.

Mike

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[Skitch]

'If' GRETSCH slammed the phone down on him, Peart probably didn't have the chance to say "goodbye".

No but Neil did say goodbye to Tama and, after such a warm welcome at Gretsch, he then ended up with Ludwig. This all too hilarious because having Neil as a Gretsch endorser in the mid to late 1980s would have turned everything around for Gretsch very easily. Instead, Gretsch slogged away against Pearl and Yamaha for a very long time, until Vinnie Colaiuta!

Gretsch still continues to screw up like this today as they have lost a few influential up and coming artists in the last year.

Mike

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[Skitch]

I think DW drums are overpriced and exhibit the same quality as all other high-end multi ply drums. They don't sound or project anywhere near as good as Craviotto drums do IMO. I think when you buy a DW you are paying more for the name then any other company. They are still high end drums and sound good but are not worth it to me.

Craviotto drums are single ply not multi ply and are far more expensive than DWs.

Mike

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[funkytomtom]

This thread is like a zombie. It keeps on crawling its way out of a grave to prey on our brains.

There's nothing else I have to input except that I will add a much more educated opinion when my DW's come in next month. I suspect that they will not suck.

[zakhopper316]

Craviotto drums are single ply not multi ply and are far more expensive than DWs.

Mike

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I know Craviotto drums are single ply, I was under the impression that DW collectors series sets are like 5 to 7 thousand dollars?? If im wrong then sorry for giving faulty info but i still think they are over priced considering they are just well made drums. i don't buy the whole grain technology thing, it has been used before on other drums with out a fancy name. I go by how they sound, which is good, I mean they sound great but not THAT great to me. However, if i was very wealthy i would certainly buy a few DW kits to pay and to keep in my in house drum show room because i think they are cool, just not worth it to me in my current financial situation. I can justify spending the money on a Craviotto because its a jump in sound quality and holds more resale value.
Can someone here honestly say that they hear something out of DW that they don't hear out of Pearl or Gretsch or any of the other big names?

The only thing i would consider buying from DW after hearing it, would be the new super solid edge snare.

[Artstar]

I was under the impression that DW collectors series sets are like 5 to 7 thousand dollars?? .


Collectors in finish ply are in the low 2k I believe.

[Mikecore]

Can someone here honestly say that they hear something out of DW that they don't hear out of Pearl or Gretsch or any of the other big names?

I could argue that it's a combination of tone and feel. My particular attration to DW is based on how the kits feel when I sit behind one. The sound is nice as well, but not as particular to DW. After that it's a question of mounting hardware, visuals and whether or not they are willing to poop out a 14" bass drum for me (I'm a bit esoteric like that). I can get most of that from Pearl or Sonor as well, for about the same price, so the question really should be: are drums in this price range worth the cash?

Ironically, had I started with a small DW kit 12 years ago when I first tried them, I would now have my big kit for a lot less than what I'm going to have to pay now, having wasted so much time chasing down cheap drums. I think they are worth it. That said, I will be checking if the new Performance series comes close enough, sound-wise.

[Skitch]

However, if i was very wealthy i would certainly buy a few DW kits to pay and to keep in my in house drum show room because i think they are cool, just not worth it to me in my current financial situation.
The only thing i would consider buying from DW after hearing it, would be the new super solid edge snare.

Totally understand about the finances and I never knock anyone for doing the best that they can do!

The Super Solid snares are really cool - and I have never seen a snare drum mae that way.

Funny you should mention a showroom - some of the companies who supply DW their wood ask DW make the company a drumset for their showroom - don't know any details other than that! They can look at doors and tables for only so long!



Mike

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[benni-666-blaze]

I think cosmetics have alot to do with the price of DW drums. You name it, they can or will paint it for you. Of course, your going to pay for it. They do have top notch craftmanship on their kits but no more than pearl, Yamaha etc.. Round lugs? funky paint? who are you buying the kit for? your wife? I don't even notice what color my drums are or what my lugs look like when I'm behind my kit and in my own little world. Tune up some Rydeems, give me some sticks and get out of the way!
i put my rydeens to sleep for a 100% birch TAMA Superstar Custom (Titanium Fade) kit. Tama makes excellent drums and hardware and being a Tama lover, DW is actually starting to make me consider my options. DW's craftmenship and high quality far exceeds that of any other leading drum maker, be it Tama or Pearl (as the majority pick of drum companies). DW's price tags while slightly high, have the goods to back em up. to say that you dont notice your drums while your playing is because your not completely satisfied with them. to me someone that doesnt care for the look and presentation of their kit is not a self respecting drummer. jus as much as your drumming ability your kit needs to perform, be it in sound and looks. drummers are constantly referenced as the boring member in the band because there kit either looks boring and un-appealing, or the drummer is boring and un-appealing and most of time both instances. DW performs in look and sound 100% and while still currently playing Tama, and believing Tama is king. DW would the drums a God would play.

[pearlygates]

i put my rydeens to sleep for a 100% birch TAMA Superstar Custom (Titanium Fade) kit. Tama makes excellent drums and hardware and being a Tama lover, DW is actually starting to make me consider my options. DW's craftmenship and high quality far exceeds that of any other leading drum maker, be it Tama or Pearl (as the majority pick of drum companies). DW's price tags while slightly high, have the goods to back em up. to say that you dont notice your drums while your playing is because your not completely satisfied with them. to me someone that doesnt care for the look and presentation of their kit is not a self respecting drummer. jus as much as your drumming ability your kit needs to perform, be it in sound and looks. drummers are constantly referenced as the boring member in the band because there kit either looks boring and un-appealing, or the drummer is boring and un-appealing and most of time both instances. DW performs in look and sound 100% and while still currently playing Tama, and believing Tama is king. DW would the drums a God would play.

Hahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!

[pearlygates]

No but Neil did say goodbye to Tama and, after such a warm welcome at Gretsch, he then ended up with Ludwig. This all too hilarious because having Neil as a Gretsch endorser in the mid to late 1980s would have turned everything around for Gretsch very easily. Instead, Gretsch slogged away against Pearl and Yamaha for a very long time, until Vinnie Colaiuta!

Gretsch still continues to screw up like this today as they have lost a few influential up and coming artists in the last year.

Mike

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Thats what sets Gretsch apart from the likes of DW an the others.. They don't need to rely on endorsers to sell their USA custom drums! Gretsch hand craft heirloom quality instruments that appreciate in value and like a fine wine, mellow and get better with age.

Comparing Gretsch USA drums with DW is like comparing a Rolls Royce to a '67 Chevelle 4 door with bench seats and a straight 6. (Not that you were comparing the 2.. I was just throwing that out there)

[funkytomtom]

Worth it? Yes.

Would, knowing what I know now, I do it again? Probably not.

They are definitely worth the price tag, but I would go used if I had to do it all over again. Either way I'm not gona lose any sleep over the DW's in the next room.

[illustrator X]

I think it depends a good bit on your playing style. I have owned lots of kits, I got hooked on DW's feel and response. Gretchies feel great too, and sound awesome. The advent of vlt and x shells bring something really cool to the table. Round maple tone with a bit of extra low end punch. Keeps me at DW.

[JTonDWDrums]

Howdy all .... I once spent a day with Art Blakey and we shared a idea that all Drums
sound good, between the player and heads most any Drum can sound good.
Altho for me it's more about hardware and Drum placement .... I've owned 2 Pearls, 2 Ludwigs, 2 Gretsch's & 1 set of Yamaha's and the best hardware to position the toms were the Yamaha's ... but the holder is crap, when you tighten down to keep the tom in place those cheap screws will strip out. I had to go get longer bigger screws and yet one holder still would come out ... not good. Pearl was awful at tom placement ... not everyone sits low or is the same size so getting toms close and in a place where I sit close to the kick can be tricky .... I also Loved the sound of my Gretsch's but there hardware tom mount is also crazy to position .... I have a DW set on order ... by the looks of there sliding mount and details I look forward ... if I'm not happy I will post back here in few mos.

JT

[audiotech]

Howdy all .... I once spent a day with Art Blakey and we shared a idea that all Drums
sound good, between the player and heads most any Drum can sound good.
Altho for me it's more about hardware and Drum placement .... I've owned 2 Pearls, 2 Ludwigs, 2 Gretsch's & 1 set of Yamaha's and the best hardware to position the toms were the Yamaha's ... but the holder is crap, when you tighten down to keep the tom in place those cheap screws will strip out. I had to go get longer bigger screws and yet one holder still would come out ... not good. Pearl was awful at tom placement ... not everyone sits low or is the same size so getting toms close and in a place where I sit close to the kick can be tricky .... I also Loved the sound of my Gretsch's but there hardware tom mount is also crazy to position .... I have a DW set on order ... by the looks of there sliding mount and details I look forward ... if I'm not happy I will post back here in few mos.

JT

It sounds to me as if you've had very bad luck.

Dennis

[scorch whammin]

1 set of Yamaha's and the best hardware to position the toms were the Yamaha's ... but the holder is crap, when you tighten down to keep the tom in place those cheap screws will strip out. I had to go get longer bigger screws and yet one holder still would come out ... not good.
JT

I've not had that problem with my Yamaha tom mounts...the key to them lasting is to not overtighten them...you don't have torque the heck out of them to get the toms to stay in place...I've got three original Yess tom mount holders from the early 90's still working fine...

[ROCKDRUMMERZERO]

I have read the first few pages of posts, I have not got time to read the rest at the moment, but my opinion of DW drums is based upon my ( now sold ) collectors kit.

I have played Yamaha RC's for years, so my judgment is based from the point of view of someone who is very happy indeed with his current sound, and I just wanted another instrument to play, fancied thin reinforced Maple shells and chose DW Maple Collectors.

My impression of the DW's was A ) Great Bassdrum ( B) Good Toms ( C ) Poor Mounting System, not as solid as my Yamaha Hardware, and certainly not as elegant.

Therefore my answer to the question are they worth the money is maybe,- if you really want them because of the sound and finish, which is very appealing and you have the cash then yup go buy, cos' you will fall in love with the kit.

However it will piss you off at some point in the future because your toms are gonna get floppy and the extensive use of rubber grommets in the iso' mounts is fine whilst they are new and tight,but not when they have some miles on them. An older DW kit could be 'loose' as hell, so be carefull if buying pre-owned.

That is it, no huge downer on the brand, but my Yamahas have a 100% reliability record, and the hardware is just so good ( and totally modular ) I am too old to start putting up with second rate fittings, especially when I pay for everything including maintenance.

[ecpietscheck]

We have all overpayed for everything that we have purchased as opposed to the cost of actually manufacturing the items. I am not bashing DW i think they are tremendous drums. My brother plays DW I play on an Orion kit. We both use identical remo heads even down to the 5 AB sticks. His Dw's dont sound any better than my Mapex in my opinion and he even admitted that to me. He stated that he realizes he payed for the name but really wanted a set of DW'S. If anyone plays DW'S and feels differently i want opinions from both sides. I cant see the thousands of dollars in price difference being justified. They do have a neat marketing scheme with their cute certificates with the sonic matching and wood harvesting techniques blah blah blah. But I cant see where they are all that better than a Starclassic, Absolute, Orion, or Reference series. What are your opinions are they really worth the extra cash? or are Dw's customers paying for the name badge and marketing schemes?

in my oppinion, i know perhaps all of you will criticize my self
i personally avoid ply wood shells, and when it comes to snares, i, by far, prefer metal shells than ply wood shells (although i own this hybrid kit, which is the first kit i have ever had)
all ply-wood drum manufacturers are practically the same, because there isnt really much physics involved in the making process
a thin layer of wood, glued to another and so on...
the only kits which are different, and really worth checking out, in my oppinion
are those that break concepts (stave, segmented, steambent and solid shells)

[Artstar]

in my oppinion, i know perhaps all of you will criticize my self
i personally avoid ply wood shells, )

Ecp... which shells/make do you play ??

[Kg_lee]

I didn't like my DW's but that doesn't mean they aren't great drums. I can tell you they have incredible customer service.

I had a price range for what I wanted and looked at everything. Also consider how long you plan on keeping the kit. I like a new kit every 2 years so I'm not willing to dish out 4k for a 4 piece kit.

[JTonDWDrums]

I've not had that problem with my Yamaha tom mounts...the key to them lasting is to not overtighten them...you don't have torque the heck out of them to get the toms to stay in place...I've got three original Yess tom mount holders from the early 90's still working fine...


Perhaps when you get stronger you will notice it .... I've spoken to a few Drummers and 2 Music Stores to find this is a problem ....

[JTonDWDrums]

It sounds to me as if you've had very bad luck.

Dennis

Why you say that? Luck has nothing to do with Hardware ...

[audiotech]

Why you say that? Luck has nothing to do with Hardware ...

It shouldn't, but it definitely sounds as if you've had bad luck with your hardware. I've had my Yamaha Maple Custom Absolutes for about two and a half years and I have absolutely no issues with their hardware. The kits been gigged many times and are used virtually daily in my studio. There is no reason to act like a gorilla when tightening the hardware.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n44/F-64/DSC_0002-1.jpg

Dennis

[ambientgreg]

It shouldn't, but it definitely sounds as if you've had bad luck with your hardware. I've had my Yamaha Maple Custom Absolutes for about two and a half years and I have absolutely no issues with their hardware. The kits been gigged many times and are used virtually daily in my studio. There is no reason to act like a gorilla when tightening the hardware.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n44/F-64/DSC_0002-1.jpg

Dennis

First of all, BEAUTIFUL kit you've got there, Audiotech! And I admit I am biased to Yamahas
but here's why...

I'd been playing for 30+ years, most of those on a set of older style Pearl exports. When I finally decided to look for something higher end I went thru a 70's ludwig, Pearl Session custom,
Yamaha absolutes- 1 maple,1 birch, a Tama Granstar, and an early Dw collectors kit before finally getting what I play now,which are Yamaha Recording Customs.

My decision process went like this. Basically my drums have to sound good,feel good under my stick, tune easily and effortlessly with a wide range,and I should be able to position those drums where I want them. Not too much to ask from a pro- level drum by any maker IMO. For me, The Yamahas' were the only ones to do all those things. And I learned that just because something is pro-level,looks nice,has a great rep,is endorsed by ______,or are considered holy grail by some,doesn't mean that drum aint' gonna fight you, instead of just slip on like your favorite pair of jeans and make you feel all is right with the world. And baby, those R.C.s' do that for me-no matter the music,the room,mic'ed or unmic'ed or even If I haven't had $$ enough to change the heads in a year. And when you find a drum that'll do all that for you, you play'em and don't give a rats about what the chatter in the drum community is..
.
Here's my p.s. In 7yrs (approx.) of playing Yamahas ,and heavily gigging those drums, I have had one tom holder strip out. It was a newer Yess arm, and not my older longer 9000 arms. It stripped out under the weight of a 14x16 hanger tom, and it was actually the socket for the hex screws which hold the plastic ball joint into place, so it wasn't from my over tightening something. But that's it. I'm not a guy who strips hardware,breaks cymbals,heads or even sticks, so when that piece stripped out, I was pretty suprised. I switched the arm out for another one, and have not had anything strip out since...and that was 3 years of heavy gigging ago.

[JTonDWDrums]

Nice kit, does that middle cymbal make rattle when you hit the kick?

[scorch whammin]

Perhaps when you get stronger you will notice it ....

LOL...I've got no problem with strength..just know how to tighten hardware correctly!...

[BGH]

First of all, BEAUTIFUL kit you've got there, Audiotech! And I admit I am biased to Yamahas
but here's why...

I'd been playing for 30+ years, most of those on a set of older style Pearl exports. When I finally decided to look for something higher end I went thru a 70's ludwig, Pearl Session custom,
Yamaha absolutes- 1 maple,1 birch, a Tama Granstar, and an early Dw collectors kit before finally getting what I play now,which are Yamaha Recording Customs.

My decision process went like this. Basically my drums have to sound good,feel good under my stick, tune easily and effortlessly with a wide range,and I should be able to position those drums where I want them. Not too much to ask from a pro- level drum by any maker IMO. For me, The Yamahas' were the only ones to do all those things. And I learned that just because something is pro-level,looks nice,has a great rep,is endorsed by ______,or are considered holy grail by some,doesn't mean that drum aint' gonna fight you, instead of just slip on like your favorite pair of jeans and make you feel all is right with the world. And baby, those R.C.s' do that for me-no matter the music,the room,mic'ed or unmic'ed or even If I haven't had $$ enough to change the heads in a year. And when you find a drum that'll do all that for you, you play'em and don't give a rats about what the chatter in the drum community is..
.
Here's my p.s. In 7yrs (approx.) of playing Yamahas ,and heavily gigging those drums, I have had one tom holder strip out. It was a newer Yess arm, and not my older longer 9000 arms. It stripped out under the weight of a 14x16 hanger tom, and it was actually the socket for the hex screws which hold the plastic ball joint into place, so it wasn't from my over tightening something. But that's it. I'm not a guy who strips hardware,breaks cymbals,heads or even sticks, so when that piece stripped out, I was pretty suprised. I switched the arm out for another one, and have not had anything strip out since...and that was 3 years of heavy gigging ago.

Very well stated. Been playing RC's for 29 years, and yes, its like putting on the old jeans for me. I bought a Pearl Reference kit about 9 months ago to buy something different. Those are really amazing drums, nicer in some ways than my Yammies. But my RC's are in my heart and my head.

And the Yamaha hardware? Forget about it. Its the best out there. They used to call it Yamaha System Hardware, because its really a well thought out design and system, the way it all pieces together and is interchangable with other pieces. I still have many pieces from the 1980's that I still use. In fact, I use mostly Yamaha hardware with my Pearl kit as well.

[illustrator X]

I do applaud DW's innovations. The Supersolid 3/8th's snare is something special. The low end from my VLX 20" bass is killer and takes me by surprise every time I play it.

[cornelius]

Agreed, X.
Nice kit : )

[illustrator X]

No Bernhard, I don't own DW's. And I don't expect that I ever will. I don't care for the way they sound - very limited tuning range, and the toms choke out at bop tunings. And I don't need to spend $3,500 on a DW kit to learn that. I've spent plenty of time trying to tune them to my liking side by side with Yamaha and Pearl maple kits, and frankly, the DW's just don't stack up. Nor do they against Fibes maple or Tempus fiberglass kits. DW hardware is good, but obtrusive, and those trash can cover lugs - ugh!
PS: In any event, "The Executioner" asked if DW's were worth the price. I presumed he wanted genuine opinions. I gave him mine. And BTW, I'm not alone by a long shot. BUT, Peter Erskine, having gone to the dark side (DW that is), I'm interested to learn if they are going to make a new drum for him.

Peter Erskine plays "Jazz" series, and they do tune high and be-boppy.
Why is DW "The dark side anyway?" Anger directed toward DW is sour grapes because they are pricey.
Saying you can't hear DW's from a stage is sillyness. How many professionals tour with DW? From Aerosmith to JayZee, you hear the mix perfectly.
I have owned 14 kits from several different companies. DW's tune easy, and have a super smooth clear tone. Mainly I Love their snare drums. In the past 10 years other drum companies are making some much improved sounding drums so the differences aren't what they once where, so maybe they aren't worth the extra cost. Really subjective, and depends heavily on musical style.
But from chain drive pedals, bearing edges, alternating grain shell configurations, molecularly compressed wood snare shells,... DW innovates. Innovation that has often influenced and improved other companies so that should be applauded.

[Davethis]

Yes.
Tough to appreciate until you own a set but something you'll realise if you ever want to sell that set. They mantain their re-sale value iand are incredibly sort-after by other drummers - The edge snare drum is nothing sort of fantastic and at $500-700 for a used one its not the most expensive out there but WOW !! Mine sounds like a nuclear bomb !
I love their gear - its cult-like !!!!

[drummaman1]

Not to swat at the hornet's nest with a bazooka, but:

Tony Williams. He played Gretsch for almost 30 years. He played Gretsch when the company was almost kaput. IMO he may have been the only drummer keeping that brand name alive at the time.

I want to find out what made Tony finally switch to DW before he passed. Was it JG's famous pitch? Was DW making their own shells by the time Tony signed on as an endorser?

What was the last straw for Tony? To see almost 30 years of loyalty to a product pretty much go up in smoke?

And in the last year, drummers I had no idea they were thinking of switching...Derek Roddy...Thomas Lang...perched behind a gleaming set of DW's....

...is JG's pitch THAT strong?

Sorry for all the inane questions. I'm hoping someone will answer some of them...

[oneida1]

It's funny that I found this thread. I just visited a drum shop I have never been to before and talked to the owner about quality and price differences between various companies. He stated that all the companies have excellent products especially in their top-of-the-line models. He also said that DW is the cream of the crop due to their finishes, wraps, exotic woods and hardware. DW's timbre matching as well as the way they orientate the wood plys affect the sound like Pearls reference series optimizes tone by what wood and number of layers are used in a certain size shell.

Our discussion went on to pricing. I asked just for giggles, " O.K. What does an 22'x18" DW bass drum cost with a wrap finish"? Hmm? Lets see. You will pay me- $1450+tax. O.K. What about same size bass drum from the Pearl Reference line? Hmm.. $1350 +tax. DW-2 month wait time, Pearl-6 month wait time.

I stopped at another drum shop and asked for pricing on a Ludwig 22'x18' bass drum (just using the bass drum as a price comparison point) and it was about $900 depending on finish.

A couple things that would steer me towards DW would be the availability of an extensive size selection, timbre matching and shell configurations. as well as keeping my cash in the U.S. Watch the youtube videos with John Goode and Neil Peart and hear how the orientation of the wood plys dramatically changes the tone. I was shocked.

[tamadrm]

I don't know if anybody's mentioned this but DW very agressively persues drummers who play every sytle of music on the planet,especially younger guys,so their appeal is deep and wide.I'm sure there is money involved in some cases as well as equipment,commencerate with artist recognition.

The reason your paying 1450 for a bass drum is that SOMEBODY has to pay for all those endorsement deals.That somebody is you.Yes I know DW fans,they are well made,the hardware is very good,and QC and customer service is good also,But I'm sorry,Ludwig and Gretsch,top of the line drums are just as good or better,and you don't have to refinance your home to own them.Not cheap,but they sound and look great.DW Timbre matched shells?Can you say Emperors New Clothes".

Steve B

[Artstar]

I don't know if anybody's mentioned this but DW very agressively persues drummers who play every sytle of music on the planet,especially younger guys,so their appeal is deep and wide.I'm sure there is money involved in some cases as well as equipment,commencerate with artist recognition.

The reason your paying 1450 for a bass drum is that SOMEBODY has to pay for all those endorsement deals.That somebody is you.Yes I know DW fans,they are well made,the hardware is very good,and QC and customer service is good also,But I'm sorry,Ludwig and Gretsch,top of the line drums are just as good or better,and you don't have to refinance your home to own them.Not cheap,but they sound and look great.DW Timbre matched shells?Can you say Emperors New Clothes".

Steve B

True. Also.. Nobody should be paying $1450 for the kick if they know where to shop. It should actually come in under a grand.

[audiotech]

I don't know if anybody's mentioned this but DW very agressively persues drummers who play every sytle of music on the planet,especially younger guys,so their appeal is deep and wide.I'm sure there is money involved in some cases as well as equipment,commencerate with artist recognition.

The reason your paying 1450 for a bass drum is that SOMEBODY has to pay for all those endorsement deals.That somebody is you.Yes I know DW fans,they are well made,the hardware is very good,and QC and customer service is good also,But I'm sorry,Ludwig and Gretsch,top of the line drums are just as good or better,and you don't have to refinance your home to own them.Not cheap,but they sound and look great.DW Timbre matched shells?Can you say Emperors New Clothes".

Steve B

To the best of my knowledge, both the high end Gretsch USA Custom series and the Ludwig top end Legacy series are very comparable to the pricing of DW Collectors, Jazz and Classic series of drums. I won't even get into the Yamaha PHX or Their Maple Custom Absolute kits. Naw, I won't mention the Sonor SQ2, I guess I did, lol. I'm talking apples to apples and oranges to oranges such as lacquers, wraps and exotic finishes in basically the same size drums for comparisons.

Dennis