Me playing a Gadd Groove

[Class A Drummer]

Me playing a Steve Gadd Groove called "Parradiddle Variations." You know it as "Simple parrididdle groove" under the clinic section.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7DrtGxEaRoM

(this was done in my basement with a dig. camera so the sound is horrible)

[theduke86]

Wow, man. That's some seriously hard stuff you're playing. Sounds good! It's great you're so into Gadd and learning his licks and chops. It's great to idolize someone and learn all their licks and try and internalize all that stuff....
Just a suggestion though... to you, when you listen to Steve Gadd play the same thing, what's the difference between you and Steve Gadd? Seriously. If you really practice this thing, you can totally play it just as well as Gadd can. If you do the work.
It's obvious that you've got most of the chops down. Now, it's just about SOUND.... half of what makes this solo sound super good when Gadd does it is not WHAT he is playing.... It's HOW he plays it. Gadd plays this linear ghost note stuff super dynamically. His backbeats are loud, the ghost notes are super quiet- and consistent!!!
Now that you've got the chops, (this might take some discipline) why don't you try and slow it down to 40 BPM and play it super consistent and try to exaggerate the dynamics to get that great Gadd sound? Obviously you've got the discipline- you've learned some super difficult stuff... so sit with it another couple of months. That's how long it takes to really get it going. I know I have to sit with a transcription sometimes four-five months before I absorb the vocabulary into my playing. It's a long and arduous process (for me anyways). So slow it down, play it for 15 mins a day. Get it super, super consistent with the tones out of the drums.... Gradually, you'll be able to crush this... Just like Gadd...
Okay, if this sounded critical, I'm sorry, it's not meant that way at all. You sound very good. I like this recording a LOT better than the last one- you're obviously putting in the hours and it's getting better all the time, which is totally awesome. You're a talented kid, no doubt! Have fun with it.

[LimaBeans]

Overall, good, but work with just a metronome and practice pad before going to the kit. The tempo seems to be fighting most of the time - speeding up and slowing down in the transitions between eigth notes and paradiddles. Other than that, work on dynamics like theduke86 said.

[Class A Drummer]

Wow, man. That's some seriously hard stuff you're playing. Sounds good! It's great you're so into Gadd and learning his licks and chops. It's great to idolize someone and learn all their licks and try and internalize all that stuff....
Just a suggestion though... to you, when you listen to Steve Gadd play the same thing, what's the difference between you and Steve Gadd? Seriously. If you really practice this thing, you can totally play it just as well as Gadd can. If you do the work.
It's obvious that you've got most of the chops down. Now, it's just about SOUND.... half of what makes this solo sound super good when Gadd does it is not WHAT he is playing.... It's HOW he plays it. Gadd plays this linear ghost note stuff super dynamically. His backbeats are loud, the ghost notes are super quiet- and consistent!!!
Now that you've got the chops, (this might take some discipline) why don't you try and slow it down to 40 BPM and play it super consistent and try to exaggerate the dynamics to get that great Gadd sound? Obviously you've got the discipline- you've learned some super difficult stuff... so sit with it another couple of months. That's how long it takes to really get it going. I know I have to sit with a transcription sometimes four-five months before I absorb the vocabulary into my playing. It's a long and arduous process (for me anyways). So slow it down, play it for 15 mins a day. Get it super, super consistent with the tones out of the drums.... Gradually, you'll be able to crush this... Just like Gadd...
Okay, if this sounded critical, I'm sorry, it's not meant that way at all. You sound very good. I like this recording a LOT better than the last one- you're obviously putting in the hours and it's getting better all the time, which is totally awesome. You're a talented kid, no doubt! Have fun with it.
Thx for the advice. And no you did not sound as critical as you think. You are totally right, i need to work on playing it as gadd would, getting the ghost notes in there and everything else you said. I definitly need to work on keeping time.

[rendezvous_drummer]

BEHOLD! The long awaited video of Class_A_drummer.
Hey man, this stuff is alot better than your last video. I won't tell you what to work on because The duke pretty much covered everything. Post some more videos man. good job.

[millerdakiller]

you've got chops

but like the others have said

you don't have feel. i have donated countless hours to simply playing the same ten licks over and over again with different dynamics and it helps a lot for two reasons. when you want to be expressive with the dynamics you can. and two, it helps you learn control. also, a metrenome would be a good investment,

[Chip]

Mmmmm, on the transtition you sped up heaps, so much that it lost it's feel.
Slow it down, learn it slow, get it down, play it 1000 times at half the tempo, then get it up to speed, get the dynamics right and your rolling! Try playing some of his PASIC videos first. Can you play the 50 ways to leave your lover lick? Nice and easy.

[NUTHA JASON]

theduke86:
Wow, man. That's some seriously hard stuff you're playing. Sounds good! It's great you're so into Gadd and learning his licks and chops. It's great to idolize someone and learn all their licks and try and internalize all that stuff....
Just a suggestion though... to you, when you listen to Steve Gadd play the same thing, what's the difference between you and Steve Gadd? Seriously. If you really practice this thing, you can totally play it just as well as Gadd can. If you do the work.
It's obvious that you've got most of the chops down. Now, it's just about SOUND.... half of what makes this solo sound super good when Gadd does it is not WHAT he is playing.... It's HOW he plays it. Gadd plays this linear ghost note stuff super dynamically. His backbeats are loud, the ghost notes are super quiet- and consistent!!!
Now that you've got the chops, (this might take some discipline) why don't you try and slow it down to 40 BPM and play it super consistent and try to exaggerate the dynamics to get that great Gadd sound? Obviously you've got the discipline- you've learned some super difficult stuff... so sit with it another couple of months. That's how long it takes to really get it going. I know I have to sit with a transcription sometimes four-five months before I absorb the vocabulary into my playing. It's a long and arduous process (for me anyways). So slow it down, play it for 15 mins a day. Get it super, super consistent with the tones out of the drums.... Gradually, you'll be able to crush this... Just like Gadd...
Okay, if this sounded critical, I'm sorry, it's not meant that way at all. You sound very good. I like this recording a LOT better than the last one- you're obviously putting in the hours and it's getting better all the time, which is totally awesome. You're a talented kid, no doubt! Have fun with it.

it is supportive posts like this that make this such a great forum and earn the poster tons of respect. well done duke.

and well done classA. it took me 20 mins to learn the 50 ways beat and three months to actually learn how to execute it to a satisfactory standard. the gadd touch is no small thing methinks.

j

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I agree with Duke. That's some very difficult stuff there, but you need to slow it right down and get those ghosts and accents in there in the right places. There's a difference between playing the groove and playing the groove alá Gadd. It's good that you now have this start and you can work on polishing it up.

Gadd has this fantastic touch which is exceptionally difficult to emulate. His timing is extraordinary so don't expect to be able to get the feel down quickly, it needs a lot of discipline and hard work.

[wondering]

hé nice stuff, I also agree with duke.

two years ago, I played some gadd's tricks with my drums teacher ( note that he's playing for more than 25 years and that he's the best belgian drummer, played with all the best belgian musicians and sponsorised by a lot of made, he's really really amazing).
So he learnt me how to do the trick, then I played it slowly. He showed it me at the real gadd tempo ( tears were almost coming to my eyes as it was beautiful ), it was grooving, dynamic, just beautiful.
Then i went faster and faster until I arrived to the same tempo as Gadd. Then I played it, it didn t sound so ugly, but I was really really far from how did my teacher make that sound.

He explained me what was wrong. gadd uses A LOT of dynamics, the difference between ghost note and accent is really important. ( he also told me that he worked a special book ( by garibaldi if my memories are right ) which only talks about dynamics.

I m now playing at the slower tempo but that's grooving really more than when I played it faster ( but I was in the tempo, playing that with metronome ).

I see that u're really fast, good technique drummer, but to improve your playing i advise you to work on slower tempo with metronome with accents and ghost note, do not be too hurry to go faster. When you ll play that perfectly at the slow tempo and with the technique you have, going faster won't be difficult.



i attached what were we playing with my teacher.


HH.- - - xX- - - - -xX- -
SN.- oo- -oo-0oo- -oo
BA.o- - - - - o- - - - - -
ll rr ll Rll rr ll

( Maj are accents )

[Class A Drummer]

Mmmmm, on the transtition you sped up heaps, so much that it lost it's feel.
Slow it down, learn it slow, get it down, play it 1000 times at half the tempo, then get it up to speed, get the dynamics right and your rolling! Try playing some of his PASIC videos first. Can you play the 50 ways to leave your lover lick? Nice and easy.
Thx everyone for the advice, i will definitly work that into my playing.

And yes i can play 50 ways chip. Thats probably the easiest one i know. I was going to post a solo of gadds, but i couldnt hear the hi hat when ever i hit it so there really no point of making it (alot of 16th notes back and forth between the ride and the hat).

[Drummer Karl]

hey, very nice stuff Class A!!!

and you sound so mature...how comes, I`m proud...
man, really cool stuff I have to say, just maybe try to keep it consistent...and practice this a long time, sounds so fluently then!

just keep it up!

Karl

[aahznightsky]

Hey A you can definitely hear the improvement in your playing!

The most critical thing to work on first I would say is timing. Always, always, always practice to a metronome, and this will improve alot. And once you have consistent timing, then I would say to work on Duke's suggestion. That's an awfully fun Gadd groove youre working on!

[Class A Drummer]

Hey A you can definitely hear the improvement in your playing!

The most critical thing to work on first I would say is timing. Always, always, always practice to a metronome, and this will improve alot. And once you have consistent timing, then I would say to work on Duke's suggestion. That's an awfully fun Gadd groove youre working on!
Thx. Im definitly going to buy a metranome soon. i use to have one but it broke :(

[mattsmith]

Way to go Class-A. That was good in alot of ways. You really have the technique down nice. But like everybody else says get the metronome thing happening.

I think its especially cool the way you are responding to these posts. Look my old man is on my butt constantly about this how you express yourself in public stuff. I think there is somethin' to it. I think for awhile your mouth was ahead of your videos, which got people judging your words more than the music. But now it's cool how that's all evening out. Like I have said before. I always thought you were a good player.

[Class A Drummer]

Way to go Class-A. That was good in alot of ways. You really have the technique down nice. But like everybody else says get the metronome thing happening.

I think its especially cool the way you are responding to these posts. Look my old man is on my butt constantly about this how you express yourself in public stuff. I think there is somethin' to it. I think for awhile your mouth was ahead of your videos, which got people judging your words more than the music. But now it's cool how that's all evening out. Like I have said before. I always thought you were a good player.
thx for those kind words. im lookin for a metronome online. I wanna save as much as i can, because im saving for a K constatinople 16 inch crash which is 300$.

[theduke86]

Buy the KORG ME-30 one, that one's super good and will not be overly expensive.... Should be available at your local music store.

[Drummer Karl]

and what is with this Tama metronome?? would it be a good buy?

Karl

[wondering]

yes it would be but the boss DB90 has the same function for a lower price I believe ( I tried those two and they re the best metronome u can imagine )

[samthebeat]

I use a zoom shity drum machine, much better than metronome for me, you can program basslines to play to, grooves etc.

You can pick them up off ebay for a tenner. Bargain.

Good effort on the gadd stuff. Keep working at it!

[Class A Drummer]

I will look into all of those metranomes and more. all sound like good ideas.

[KLittle123]

I think you had the Gadd but you didn't have the Groove, but thats alright, someone at your age doing that definitly has dedication in learning that and also someone at your age is still developing their own groove, so I think when people are talking about accents and ghost notes and such I think thats something that will develop with you, when I was your age I played the same way...except I didn't play Gadd...I just played whatever(i was dedicated to learn, I just went with it). Good job though.

Oh, ha, I like that one handed roll thing with the pencil, I watched that and then the next day I did it in my study hall and some girl like was like "OKAY WHOSE DOIN THE TAPPING?" it was funny.

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

That's real great. Reminds me of some DJ Shadow stuff.

[Class A Drummer]

Oh, ha, I like that one handed roll thing with the pencil, I watched that and then the next day I did it in my study hall and some girl like was like "OKAY WHOSE DOIN THE TAPPING?" it was funny.
Yeah, isnt it just pure genius? confuses the hell outa my teachers and friends.

[Stu_Strib]

Everyone else has already said it, but you need to slow down first to play fast later. That video seemed really like just random notes, even though I know what you were trying to pull off. The timing is not solid, therefore, you leave the listener to have to guess what it is you are trying to say with the drums. Great playing speaks clearly and everyone understands in any language!

Also, you should really work the single strokes on a practice pad. Your strokes are very timid, tight/cramped/unrelaxed. Gadd sounds so great because he is one of the most relaxed players on the planet (at least in the grip department).

[Jusstickinaround]

I don't know maybe I'm missing something, but that didn't sound too hot. Is this forum here to just praise every performance no matter how it sounds or to say what you actually think? I saw your post on the ten year old drummer and can't believe after hearing you that you had the nerve to call him boring.

[Class A Drummer]

I don't know maybe I'm missing something, but that didn't sound too hot. Is this forum here to just praise every performance no matter how it sounds or to say what you actually think? I saw your post on the ten year old drummer and can't believe after hearing you that you had the nerve to call him boring.
listen, i have said this several times and i hope this is the last. just because my performances are boring, does not mean that i cant say somthing else is boring. Its called free speech. everyone has their own opinions. i was not the only person who thought it was on the boring side, but i am the only person getting bashed for saying so.

[Bernhard]

listen, i have said this several times and i hope this is the last. just because my performances are boring, does not mean that i cant say somthing else is boring. Its called free speech. everyone has their own opinions. i was not the only person who thought it was on the boring side, but i am the only person getting bashed for saying so.

Free speech? ok so, if you want.

But my thoughts are also free...

If somebody says "this drumming is boring" it's interesting perhabs to know, who is saying that. Of course it's not coming from a great drummer, because they don't talk this way. So hearing the playing of this person gives some insights.

Bernhard

[brittc89]

I don't know maybe I'm missing something, but that didn't sound too hot. Is this forum here to just praise every performance no matter how it sounds or to say what you actually think? I saw your post on the ten year old drummer and can't believe after hearing you that you had the nerve to call him boring.
Just shut up already. Nobody cares about this 10 year old. Im sick of these same dumb posts over and over again. You should work with a metrenome and define your accents more. Thisll make yu sound a heck of a lot better. Now back to this 10 year old. So friggin what? I thought the solo was boring as well. Very overused licks. It ws not amazing, so lets drop the whole subject in THIS thread. Just because you think Class As drumming is boring doesnt give you the right to say it in such a rude way. Besides, a lot of times it seems like Class As the only one who says what he thinks, then he gets lynched. Its rediculous.

[mattsmith]

Is this forum here to just praise every performance no matter how it sounds or to say what you actually think?

As a new guy, what may be confusing you is how civil most are here. Unlike some of the other forums where people act insane and every video sumission is a feeding frenzy for a bunch of lonely finger tappin' jerks, hiding behind their computers, this place actually has a number of really good players and alot of pros. In fact IMO, its the best forum of young drummers on the net. Criticism here is constructive and often gradual in a developing kind of way.

When criticism is levelled on drummerworld it actually applies and theres no reason you have to be slapped around to get it. As for everything gettin' praised, absolutely not so. Heck, some of jazzgregg's comments could kill you, if you didn't know what a hot drummer he was and how much he cares about the music. Believe me, if somethin's not good here, you'll hear about it and it will help you more in the long term.

[finnhiggins]

Well, I actually removed Class A from my ignore list so I could go see ;)

My comments would be:

* Time. As mentioned, this really needs some work here - whenever you went into the fast paraddidly stuff the beat went right out the window as far as I could see. I'd say a metronome would be a much better investment than an expensive crash cymbal in terms of presenting your playing better to people. Buy the metronome first.

* Technique. Your hands seem very open at the back during the faster sections - how relaxed is the front of your hand? I'd have some concerns that with the hand that open you might be clenching a bit in the fulcrum. That tension might be another cause of the "turbo effect" that happens every time you head for the higher subdivisions. Also, when you're playing slower you seem to have something a bit funny happening when the stick bounces, it seems to snap out of your fulcrum in a rather uncontrolled way. Sitting down and working on your "free strokes" along with the Famularo vids over on the Vic Firth site would go a long way in this respect, try to make sure your grip stays nice and collected through the entire stroke.

[Class A Drummer]

Well, I actually removed Class A from my ignore list so I could go see ;)

My comments would be:

* Time. As mentioned, this really needs some work here - whenever you went into the fast paraddidly stuff the beat went right out the window as far as I could see. I'd say a metronome would be a much better investment than an expensive crash cymbal in terms of presenting your playing better to people. Buy the metronome first.

* Technique. Your hands seem very open at the back during the faster sections - how relaxed is the front of your hand? I'd have some concerns that with the hand that open you might be clenching a bit in the fulcrum. That tension might be another cause of the "turbo effect" that happens every time you head for the higher subdivisions. Also, when you're playing slower you seem to have something a bit funny happening when the stick bounces, it seems to snap out of your fulcrum in a rather uncontrolled way. Sitting down and working on your "free strokes" along with the Famularo vids over on the Vic Firth site would go a long way in this respect, try to make sure your grip stays nice and collected through the entire stroke.
havent heard any of that (the technique part) and thats kind of interesting. i never even considered any of that. i will definitly see what i can do with my technique.

[Stu_Strib]

Yes, definitely look into your grip like Finn and I suggested. I've said THIS before as well: I can usually tell how good someone is just by watching them hold a pair of drumsticks. In your case, the erratic playing of that thing you call Gadd stuff is due mostly to the very unrefined technique. It is evident that you have just picked up sticks and gone with what feels good. You should seek an instructor, if not for just 4 weeks, to learn the proper stick techniques, free strokes, diddles, rebounds, buzz, etc. Some stuff is better left to teachers to point out to you what you are doing wrong.

[Class A Drummer]

Yes, definitely look into your grip like Finn and I suggested. I've said THIS before as well: I can usually tell how good someone is just by watching them hold a pair of drumsticks. In your case, the erratic playing of that thing you call Gadd stuff is due mostly to the very unrefined technique. It is evident that you have just picked up sticks and gone with what feels good. You should seek an instructor, if not for just 4 weeks, to learn the proper stick techniques, free strokes, diddles, rebounds, buzz, etc. Some stuff is better left to teachers to point out to you what you are doing wrong.
Actually i can hold the stick just fine. we did playing tests in school, we had to sight read a snare peice, and i got a 25/25 for points. to get this you did not only have to play it with no mistakes but you have to be able to hold the sticks properly i guess because, the teacher commented how well i am able to hold the sticks and how he likes my grip.

[hairybuffalokiller]

Mate until you can play like Godd I mean Gadd himself, I'd take any advice I'm given personally.

How long have you been playing drums? Probably not half as long as a large bunch of guys on this forum, who try to give you helpful advice which you refute seemingly every time.

Constructive criticism is a wonderful thing; it's pretty much being told how to become better, often by people who are just that...

Better.

If anything I'd be thanking all the people who are giving you tips rather than saying how high you scored in a stick test. I got 98% in my grade 1 drum exam but that doesn't make me a good drummer seeing as my hardest piece was a 4/4 rock beat.

If the stick test you did was examined by Gadd do you still think you would have scored 100%?

[wondering]

Mate until you can play like Godd I mean Gadd himself, I'd take any advice I'm given personally.

How long have you been playing drums? Probably not half as long as a large bunch of guys on this forum, who try to give you helpful advice which you refute seemingly every time.

Constructive criticism is a wonderful thing; it's pretty much being told how to become better, often by people who are just that...

Better.

If anything I'd be thanking all the people who are giving you tips rather than saying how high you scored in a stick test. I got 98% in my grade 1 drum exam but that doesn't make me a good drummer seeing as my hardest piece was a 4/4 rock beat.

If the stick test you did was examined by Gadd do you still think you would have scored 100%?

I really agree with you.

I think that when somebody tried to help you by saying what he feels wrong in your playing, the better think to do is to listen to him then to improve your playing.

A lot of people here have a lot of experience, and know many things, you and probably I ignore.. Enjoy these constructive critics instead of defute those.

That's quite like when I heard somebody says :" he's a bad drummer, he plays simple grooves...". for example my teacher who's the best belgian drummer plays sometimes very simple things with some of his bands, because this is what they need, and because he makes that sound like i will take me 20 years to.

keep working, in the right way, you're very young and will be able to do brilliant things :)

[Stu_Strib]

Actually i can hold the stick just fine. we did playing tests in school, we had to sight read a snare peice, and i got a 25/25 for points.

As an eductor myself and having 20+ years of experience, all I can say is there is no way you would have received max points from me, even if it was perfectly sight read. We do some mock grades tests at the Music School here and I'm capable of grading stuff all the way up to 8.

Your grip has some very obvious "beginner" like problems, but it isn't a total disaster. The main problem is that your playing is inhibited by the lack of stick control, which is never a good thing.

[Class A Drummer]

[QUOTE=hairybuffalokiller]

How long have you been playing drums? Probably not half as long as a large bunch of guys on this forum, who try to give you helpful advice which you refute seemingly every time.



Better.

QUOTE]
you think im refusing all the advice? read the thread 5 times through and tell me that again.

[Class A Drummer]

As an eductor myself and having 20+ years of experience, all I can say is there is no way you would have received max points from me, even if it was perfectly sight read. We do some mock grades tests at the Music School here and I'm capable of grading stuff all the way up to 8.

Your grip has some very obvious "beginner" like problems, but it isn't a total disaster. The main problem is that your playing is inhibited by the lack of stick control, which is never a good thing.
question, how do you see my grip? all i can see is my left hand. and it doesnt quite matter what it looks like in my opinion, as long as it works.

[Drummerboy3940]

You wont be able to play it as fast as you would like with incorrect technique. Dude, just calm down, not everyone is trying to bash you. Just accept the criticism. If you dont want constructive criticism dont post your videos up.

[hairybuffalokiller]

Fair point, I did read the thread in the first place, I was more referring to other threads I've read too though. Namely the 10 year old "sensation" drummer.

It's just I agree with the comments made about your sticking and if you let the help other members are trying to give you then its a shame.

Stu Strib's been playing for 20+ years? If he says your sticking isn't that great then naturally from information given I'm going to believe him seeing as he's been playing for what looks like more than you've been born.

[aahznightsky]

question, how do you see my grip? all i can see is my left hand. and it doesnt quite matter what it looks like in my opinion, as long as it works.

Well if we can see one hand, and you're playing matched grip ... ideally both your hands would be in the same shape. Whether or not your right hand needs it, your left hand at the least needs work.

And we know what a good grip looks like ... what works best, and what it looks like. Nice try.

[Class A Drummer]

Dude, just calm down, not everyone is trying to bash you. Just accept the criticism. If you dont want constructive criticism dont post your videos up.
I know its constructive, and i like the critisism and i use it to help with my technique. i just think that stu is incorrect in saying that the way i hold the stick is not good. its been working for me great for the past 8 years and i really have no idea how to make it better. ive talked to alot of people (different teachers, people who have been playing for over 30 years, people who are endorsed, and alot of other drummers i know) and they all play matched pretty much like i do. one person is my teacher, he is the best drummer i have ever seen in my life who is not signed and sponsored and stuff like that.

[theduke86]

Yeah, man. I wasn't going to mention it earlier since I was in a polite respectful mood, but since I'm super grumpy now, you really, really, really to fix your grip technique. It would make your life super easier. You'd get a better tone, and you wouldn't look choked up, too. Study with a private teacher that knows good grip technique, and you'll fix the problem. I'm all about individual techniques working for drummers (or musicians), but only the ones who can get results. For example, there are a few drummers on this site who I think are crazy technique wise- Ari Hoenig (much much too tense), Brian Blade (weird) and Keith Carlock (it takes so much effort to play with that much bounce!!). However, they are getting the most awesome results on a drumset that can be achieved, basically. I don't think you are quite yet. Learn proper technique first, then break it later. As I know all the above did.

[brittc89]

Yeah, man. I wasn't going to mention it earlier since I was in a polite respectful mood, but since I'm super grumpy now, you really, really, really to fix your grip technique. It would make your life super easier. You'd get a better tone, and you wouldn't look choked up, too. Study with a private teacher that knows good grip technique, and you'll fix the problem. I'm all about individual techniques working for drummers (or musicians), but only the ones who can get results. For example, there are a few drummers on this site who I think are crazy technique wise- Ari Hoenig (much much too tense), Brian Blade (weird) and Keith Carlock (it takes so much effort to play with that much bounce!!). However, they are getting the most awesome results on a drumset that can be achieved, basically. I don't think you are quite yet. Learn proper technique first, then break it later. As I know all the above did.
Nice post Duke. I thought I was the only person who thought Hoenig's technique looked wacky when he played. Im gonna say this to you Class A, I defend you a lot and a lot of times I feel like you get picked on, but honestly you gotta work on what all these guys are telling you and stop getting so defensive with them. Your stick is flailing everywhere and is causing uneven sound quality in every stroke as well as uneven time, believe me, youre all over the place. And once you even said, the grip doesnt matter as long as it works. Well truly, its not working. Its like saying the quality of the seat belt doesnt matter, as long as it works, and then having it hold you in the car for 45 minutes then break and let you get flung through the windshield. It might get the job done to an extent, but it wont do it great.

[Stu_Strib]

it doesnt quite matter what it looks like in my opinion, as long as it works.

Fair enough, but you'll never get better with your recalcitrant attitude. The problem with your statement though is "if it works". Based on the video you posted, it doesn't work, as you fail to manipulate the sticks with smooth, even diddles. This in 95% attributable to stick control, which is completely dependent on grip and manipulation of the stick.

And you can see your right hand when you bring it over a couple times.

[AvengedDrummer]

stevegadd is good you arent and joey from slipknot wipe his ass with your skill
This proves that most people on youtube have almost no intelligence.

[centralzeke]

I have some input.

To me, the only thing I can say is work on it slower with a metronome. Unlike the other guys, I think grips don't really factor in, in this case. Yeah guys, maybe a better change in grip will help you do everything easier, more efficiently ( = better sounding) and prevent injury - but look at John Blackwell, if you ever see him drum he has not so good hand technique (aka gripping tightly, hardly using bounce at all).

Work it out slower with a metronome and it will sound more solid. Then you can speed it up. Because when you're playing it now you're speeding up the harder parts a little. You also want when the backbeat comes for it to be obvious.

Oh, I think it is great that you're tackling one of Gadd's beats.

[Darmikalus]

man i have to say...good job, ive worked on that groove before and i got no where near as close as you have... keep it up man

[finnhiggins]

I know its constructive, and i like the critisism and i use it to help with my technique. i just think that stu is incorrect in saying that the way i hold the stick is not good. its been working for me great for the past 8 years and i really have no idea how to make it better. ive talked to alot of people (different teachers, people who have been playing for over 30 years, people who are endorsed, and alot of other drummers i know) and they all play matched pretty much like i do. one person is my teacher, he is the best drummer i have ever seen in my life who is not signed and sponsored and stuff like that.

OK, let me put it this way. Between me, Stu and Andrew you've got three people who've studied with some seriously, seriously amazing drummers - some of them with their own pages on Drummerworld. That's not to claim that we're anything like as good as these people, at least in my case I'm certain I'm not and I know Stu and Andrew will likely say the same about their teachers.

If the three of us look at your left hand and say "That needs fixing" then it probably needs some fixing. The biggest problem I see is that every time you hit a snare backbeat you completely lose control of the stick - the rebound snaps it back out of your index finger/thumb fulcrum and you have to do some little finger-wiggle thing to get it back again. Go watch yourself with an open mind and ask if that's the most efficient way to control the stick. Now, if that was all there was to the problem then I'd be happy to say it'd be a quick fix - but it seems to be a symptom of overall rather uncoordinated, poorly thought-out technique across the board.

There are excellent resources from Dom Famularo and others out there which should give you a demonstration of good grip. But if you lack the ability to analyse and pull apart what they're doing technically then you will probably need a teacher. If your current teacher is telling you your grip is fine then find another one. Save up and go see Dom Famularo for an hour or something...

[Class A Drummer]

OK, let me put it this way. Between me, Stu and Andrew you've got three people who've studied with some seriously, seriously amazing drummers - some of them with their own pages on Drummerworld. That's not to claim that we're anything like as good as these people, at least in my case I'm certain I'm not and I know Stu and Andrew will likely say the same about their teachers.

If the three of us look at your left hand and say "That needs fixing" then it probably needs some fixing. The biggest problem I see is that every time you hit a snare backbeat you completely lose control of the stick - the rebound snaps it back out of your index finger/thumb fulcrum and you have to do some little finger-wiggle thing to get it back again. Go watch yourself with an open mind and ask if that's the most efficient way to control the stick. Now, if that was all there was to the problem then I'd be happy to say it'd be a quick fix - but it seems to be a symptom of overall rather uncoordinated, poorly thought-out technique across the board.

There are excellent resources from Dom Famularo and others out there which should give you a demonstration of good grip. But if you lack the ability to analyse and pull apart what they're doing technically then you will probably need a teacher. If your current teacher is telling you your grip is fine then find another one. Save up and go see Dom Famularo for an hour or something...
who is Andrew... is he the Duke? ive thought about savin to get a lesson with Dom, but dont know how much it is or how to get one. one of your last statements said i should not have my teacher. you should see him play and then tell me that again.

[finnhiggins]

who is Andrew... is he the Duke? ive thought about savin to get a lesson with Dom, but dont know how much it is or how to get one. one of your last statements said i should not have my teacher. you should see him play and then tell me that again.

I intend no disrespect to your teacher and cast no aspersions on his playing. But I don't need to see his playing, I just need to see yours and hear your utter confidence in what you're doing now to know that there's a problem.

It is possible for somebody to be an awesome player and not be able to teach what they do very well. Similarly, it's possible for somebody to be both an awesome player and a great teacher but also to have problems getting past certain personality/ego issues with their students which prevent them developing further. I have no idea what the situation is there, but the reality is that your sticks do not move in a smooth and efficient manner when you play - and that is down to how they're gripped in your hand.

If you want to get a lesson with Dom you should talk to Knieveldrummer - he's studied with him. I believe Dom charges something like $75/hr and you could most likely get the necessary contact details off his website. Seriously, if it's something you find inspiring as an idea you should go set it up ASAP. It'll do you a power of good, I guarantee it. Any teacher on that level is worth their weight in gold, and $75 is a hell of a lot less than that...

[KLittle123]

Lets see a video of you just drumming, like free styling it, thats what I want to see--just going with a beat. I think Gadd is too technical for someone your age and you should just be going nuts instead, just post a video of you grooving.

[the.tree]

I don't listen to Gadd's stuff much, so I'm not going to critisize your palying but i could see the timeing needed help. But what are these drum tests and snare drum tests are they in school or what whats he deal. Or jsut band in school

[Class A Drummer]

This proves that most people on youtube have almost no intelligence.
i know. i saw an incredible performance by peart or bonham or somthing and a guy was like "this guy sucks! he cant play for his life. i would beat this guy any day of the week (and some cursing and foul language in there)." but then again, alot of people who post like that really just live in there basement in thier parents house, with 3 other guys who spend all day posting like that and eating old chocolate pudding.

[treMAC]

Nice attempt dude. I agree with what most people have said, slowing it down etc. and maybe you need to look at your technical to improve it, I don't know. But I do trust the like of Stu, Finn and Duke (anyone with that much experience) and I'd seriously consider what they say. It seems to me you say you agree with them, but in reality you're thinking to yourself "screw it, I know better then them". That's how it comes across to me.

Anyway, dud I reckon you should make a little vid of yourself playing around so people know exactly what you can do. I hear people (mostly you! ;) ) saying how good you are but as yet haven't seen that much. I look forward to it!

[skyfish]

Well, I see alot of "play it just like gadd" and I rehearse licks over and over and over, I would like to add that you should strive to get more dynamics, but don't try to be anyone else but yourself, gadd doesn't sound like gadd cause he sounds like someone else, I would say to play slower to understand it, strive to make it better, but ultimately.....make it your own. oh, by the way, it's not about the licks, it's about the phrasing, and the musicality of it, the feel.

[T.Underhill]

...i would beat this guy any day of the week (and some cursing and foul language in there)." but then again, alot of people who post like that really just live in there basement in thier parents house, with 3 other guys who spend all day posting like that and eating old chocolate pudding.

And what kind of people say stuff like this?

"uh huh sure. but the thing is, tre can groove (but then again who cant) but with all do respect to him, he is nothing special. he plays beginer grooves, uses extremly simple and beginer fills, and truly isnt very good. the only reason he is endorsed, is because his band is popular. you dont need to be a good drummer to be in a famous band stupid. "

[wondering]

that's what I was talking about in my previous post.

[franklinj]

And what kind of people say stuff like this?

"uh huh sure. but the thing is, tre can groove (but then again who cant) but with all do respect to him, he is nothing special. he plays beginer grooves, uses extremly simple and beginer fills, and truly isnt very good. the only reason he is endorsed, is because his band is popular. you dont need to be a good drummer to be in a famous band stupid. "


BURN!!!!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9/franklinj/burn.jpg

You are the insult master!

[Bonhamfan]

Class A - It's good to see you trying complicated and difficult techniques. But when you ask for constructive critisizm accept it, no one is bashing your abilities, you don't have to take it personally, just listen with open ears and apply it to your playing. You would be surprised what you could learn.

[Class A Drummer]

Class A - It's good to see you trying complicated and difficult techniques. But when you ask for constructive critisizm accept it, no one is bashing your abilities, you don't have to take it personally, just listen with open ears and apply it to your playing. You would be surprised what you could learn.
Im not taking it personally man. And i am accepting it.

[Bonhamfan]

Im not taking it personally man. And i am accepting it.

It seems like you are at times. For example, when Stu commented on your grip, you immediately said that your teacher said your grip was fine. Stu has drummed many of years, has gained loads of experience over his years, and was just passing down some of his knowledge which was very generous IMO. No you don't have to apply it if you do not want to, but you should also be grateful that Stu willingly offered his advice (free of charge I might add ; ) jk). This is not a forum for pointing out a drummers weaknesses, it's a forum for lending advice and giving suggestions, again don't take it personally, take it as a opprotunity to improve your abilities.

[franklinj]

Ooohhh, gonna have to agree with the other members here. Its off a lot in some places, but dont worry! When I first got into Advanced Funk Studies, I almost crapped myself because I was going so slow playing these beats, but now its all muscle memory. Remember, start slowly and work your way up (with a metronome, cough cough.) It could be pretty good if you keep at it.

Try doing just the really fast part at about 60 bpm. Sounds oh so sloww, but it helps a lot. Also, another tip: Instead of increasing in increments of 10 bpm, increase it by 4 bpm. That way, you can do it at any speed you want. Its kind of like my db practice scheme applied to the set. It works very, very well.

[Class A Drummer]

Ok... i have heard alot about critiquing my technique about holding the sticks. i will try and make a video, then you can tell me what i am doing wrong and help me fix it.

[treMAC]

And what kind of people say stuff like this?

"uh huh sure. but the thing is, tre can groove (but then again who cant) but with all do respect to him, he is nothing special. he plays beginer grooves, uses extremly simple and beginer fills, and truly isnt very good. the only reason he is endorsed, is because his band is popular. you dont need to be a good drummer to be in a famous band stupid. "

LOL I thought he was talking about me for a second.. actually that is a fairly good description of my playing! ;) :) Without the fame and endorsements..

[Class A Drummer]

im tryin to make another vid of me, but playing steve gadds solo (or atleat the first 2 pages, the rest is impossible) but i am having a sound problem. Its mainly the first page, it is alot of 16 th notes going back and forth between the hats and the ride. If you dont know what im talking about, steve does it at the begining of this solo http://drummerworld.com/Videos/SteveGaddlucky.html , except the solo im trying to do is a little bit more difficult in my opinion. The problem is that you cant really hear the hi hats being played, and thats a key thing in this solo. any help?

[jmr2master]

This is a late post but,you can play any drum part correctly, but from that vid you don't have advanced fill control, and by that I mean you started playing at one tempo then you played that fill to fast,its suppose to cover a full bar so you should come in on the next bar, but at the tempo you started at not faster, that is a "feel" issue,work on that control and you will improve.

[cazzo_n_culo]

is this groove tabbed out anywhere is is there notation anywhere?

[Class A Drummer]

is this groove tabbed out anywhere is is there notation anywhere?
i dont belive you can find tabs on the internet for it, but if you buy the book "steve gadd up close" you can see the music. If i can get my camera working again, i will post a pic of what it looks like. But there is one problem... is that legal?

[cazzo_n_culo]

sure its legal...im only looking for the sticking...

rRlL

Can you help?

Thanks

John

[Class A Drummer]

sure its legal...im only looking for the sticking...

rRlL

Can you help?

Thanks

John
which part? tell me the time in the vid you want the sticking for.

[cazzo_n_culo]

0.06 when the paradiddle groove starts moving...

[Class A Drummer]

0.06 when the paradiddle groove starts moving...
o ok. That part goes Rlrr lrr lrl r R (open the hi hat and hit the bass drum)

[Class A Drummer]

any other parts? i can help you with most of it.

[SilverPearl]

it's hard and i admit i couldn't do it but i just don't like the sound of it personally

[Class A Drummer]

it's hard and i admit i couldn't do it but i just don't like the sound of it personally
thats fine its ur opinion, but what do you mean the sound? The sound of the drums? or just how the groove goes in general?

[Chip]

That part goes Rlrr lrr lrl r R (open the hi hat and hit the bass drum)
What about the LL at the start? I play it ll rlrr lrrl rlrR.The bit after those two, I am currently working on.

[Class A Drummer]

What about the LL at the start? I play it ll rlrr lrrl rlrR.The bit after those two, I am currently working on.
yeah i didnt add that part. It really goes hihat and snare at the same time then

ll Rlrr lrr lr l r R(w/ open hi hat) then close the hihat by its self, then left hand on snare and so on.

[Stu_Strib]

thats fine its ur opinion, but what do you mean the sound? The sound of the drums? or just how the groove goes in general?

Yeah, I'd like to hear his rationale as well. I can't stand that Steve Gadd guy either ;-)

[Class A Drummer]

Yeah, I'd like to hear his rationale as well. I can't stand that Steve Gadd guy either ;-)
i thought about it for a few seconds, and i think he just doesnt like the way it flows. (i dunno i may be wrong.)

[franklinj]

i thought about it for a few seconds, and i think he just doesnt like the way it flows. (i dunno i may be wrong.)

Cough coughbump cougb Cough.

[dasilvs]

do you know the hand patterns and notation, as well as the accents? i have been trying to figure out how he made that groove work, and i could never figure out the right sticking. can you lay it out for me?

[KzSgDrummer]

I wrote out 4 quarter notes, subdivided into 32nd notes (8 beats per quarter), with dashes meaning do not play.

Right is right hand hihat. Left is snare drum.
Upper case/bold means loud, lower case means ghosted (and with Gadd, dynamics MAKE the groove come alive - don't overlook this!!!!)
^ means open hi hat.. _ is where you close it.

----------------^-_---------------^----_
Rlrrlrrl r-L-r-R --L-r---- L-r-R---
B------ -------B --------B ----------

The bass drum is unclear so I'll spell it out - Downbeat of 1, and then the "a" of beats 2 and 3.

That's the basic thing although Gadd does lots of simple variations off of this. BUT The important thing to understand is that that initial flurry of 32nd notes is really just two sets of 4 hits -- the first 4 note set is just a right hand lead paradiddle (Rlrr) and the second part is almost a left hand paradiddle, except the right hand steals one stroke away (lrrl instead of lrll).

Hope that helps!

-

[Class A Drummer]

I wrote out 4 quarter notes, subdivided into 32nd notes (8 beats per quarter), with dashes meaning do not play.

Right is right hand hihat. Left is snare drum.
Upper case/bold means loud, lower case means ghosted (and with Gadd, dynamics MAKE the groove come alive - don't overlook this!!!!)
^ means open hi hat.. _ is where you close it.

----------------^-_---------------^----_
Rlrrlrrl r-L-r-R --L-r---- L-r-R---
B------ -------B --------B ----------

The bass drum is unclear so I'll spell it out - Downbeat of 1, and then the "a" of beats 2 and 3.

That's the basic thing although Gadd does lots of simple variations off of this. BUT The important thing to understand is that that initial flurry of 32nd notes is really just two sets of 4 hits -- the first 4 note set is just a right hand lead paradiddle (Rlrr) and the second part is almost a left hand paradiddle, except the right hand steals one stroke away (lrrl instead of lrll).

Hope that helps!

-
wow that was really good man. Have you done this before and have you tried playing stuff in his book?

[KzSgDrummer]

Well, I've never tried drum notation on vBulletin before, but in more traditional means yeah.. And I've never seen Gadd's book, but I do have Up Close and In Session. Mainly though I learned all this stuff several years back when Stan Mulder's Gadd site was still up and running, since that had dozens of user-submittied transcriptions on the site. I miss that place mang..

[HardcoreLogo]

I keep hearing something about a Steve Gadd book......am I missing something?I never knew there was a Steve Gadd book..............

[Class A Drummer]

I keep hearing something about a Steve Gadd book......am I missing something?I never knew there was a Steve Gadd book..............
well not a steve gadd book, but alot of his music. Such as the paradiddle groove i played, also the real crazy (not the variations you see on this website), im still searching for a vid of it online but cant find. Also has a mozambique pattern, a shuffle, a solo and a few other things. Its called "Steve gadd up close" and i highly recomend it.

[Kenny Aldrich]

well i dig the fact that your into Gadd! nice change of pace from what everyone else is into these days! BIG FRIGGIN POINTS ON THAT ALONE DUDE! now the critique... as a few others have pointed out ie tempo needs work technique and feel..? well lets start with what you can't learn FEEL! This is a hard subject to try to speak about esp. in print form but here goes anyway what I found to be helpful in this quest for feel is to INTERNALISE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR! in other words any music you like LIVE IT EAT IT SLEEP IT DRINK IT! try to hear everything in the tune not just drums!!! one more time NOT JUST DRUMS! open your ears to every instrument on a track this is a sort of ear training I put myself through and continue because I love music. isolate one instrument at a time [like you are already doing with the drums] now do it it with bass git piano whatever try to feel what those guys are doing anylize everything hell these days I even get a kick out of one note placed correctly! lol not really kidding though!!! make MUSIC as much a part of practice as your physical drumming


CHOPS: the others are correct in what they noticed so I will agree and move on


RELAXE MORE!!! this is a sort of technique all it's own I almost get the feeling you aren't breathing freely when you play no worries just make sure that you aren't holding your breath or breathing shallow>>sounds stupid but it makes a HUGE difference keep an eye on it


here's something you might like to try as well


visualization: what's that? when you are playing try to visualize yourself as an audience member this can be tricky but the benefits are great it's a sort of "zen" thing or out of body thing I found it helps me actually play to an audience and also helps the actual audience feel more connected to what your doing it's subtl a hell but try it and watch your playing improve in a months time



here's something I teach my students that I feel is very important posture! not just while playing but even before you start to play approach the instrument like you OWN THE DAMN THINGS not so much in a cocky way but more in a confident way in other words approach the instrument like you care! and exit the drums like YOU CARE subtle? yes but again it's what separates the men from the boys and it makes an impression on auditions and at your age there are many auditions to come be prepared!



I'm done sorry for long ass post


Kenny

[Class A Drummer]

well i dig the fact that your into Gadd! nice change of pace from what everyone else is into these days! BIG FRIGGIN POINTS ON THAT ALONE DUDE! now the critique... as a few others have pointed out ie tempo needs work technique and feel..? well lets start with what you can't learn FEEL! This is a hard subject to try to speak about esp. in print form but here goes anyway what I found to be helpful in this quest for feel is to INTERNALISE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR! in other words any music you like LIVE IT EAT IT SLEEP IT DRINK IT! try to hear everything in the tune not just drums!!! one more time NOT JUST DRUMS! open your ears to every instrument on a track this is a sort of ear training I put myself through and continue because I love music. isolate one instrument at a time [like you are already doing with the drums] now do it it with bass git piano whatever try to feel what those guys are doing anylize everything hell these days I even get a kick out of one note placed correctly! lol not really kidding though!!! make MUSIC as much a part of practice as your physical drumming


CHOPS: the others are correct in what they noticed so I will agree and move on


RELAXE MORE!!! this is a sort of technique all it's own I almost get the feeling you aren't breathing freely when you play no worries just make sure that you aren't holding your breath or breathing shallow>>sounds stupid but it makes a HUGE difference keep an eye on it


here's something you might like to try as well


visualization: what's that? when you are playing try to visualize yourself as an audience member this can be tricky but the benefits are great it's a sort of "zen" thing or out of body thing I found it helps me actually play to an audience and also helps the actual audience feel more connected to what your doing it's subtl a hell but try it and watch your playing improve in a months time



here's something I teach my students that I feel is very important posture! not just while playing but even before you start to play approach the instrument like you OWN THE DAMN THINGS not so much in a cocky way but more in a confident way in other words approach the instrument like you care! and exit the drums like YOU CARE subtle? yes but again it's what separates the men from the boys and it makes an impression on auditions and at your age there are many auditions to come be prepared!



I'm done sorry for long ass post


Kenny
nice post kenny. Since i made this thread a while ago (dont remember when but im guessing like 5 months ago or somthing) i have worked on pretty much every peice of critisism i have recived (ie, tempo, speeding up/slowing down, feel, dynamics, ect) and i can tell my playing ability in this peice and in general has increased. I liked what you said about visualization. I actually close my eyes and just pretend im in front of a huge crowd and just play really loud and stuff like that. From that post of yours, i definitly like your view on things like this.

[Miggle]

put the camera a bit farther from the set so it gets less overtone. I agree, sticking is pretty easy to learn as compared to getting even strokes and a wide range of dynamics.

This is better than the last video, sort of a back to basics stuff.

[Class A Drummer]

put the camera a bit farther from the set so it gets less overtone. I agree, sticking is pretty easy to learn as compared to getting even strokes and a wide range of dynamics.

This is better than the last video, sort of a back to basics stuff.
ill definitly take that advice about the camera. It should make it alot less distorted. Yes the sticking is pretty easy, its just working on the double rights and lefts in the parradiddles which you gotta work on so its clean.

[drumbum911]

Dear Paul,
USE A F---IN METRONOME!!!!!!!!!!

signed,
jew2many :P

[Class A Drummer]

Dear Paul,
USE A F---IN METRONOME!!!!!!!!!!

signed,
jew2many :P

Dear Ben,

I know... been discussed... next topic. :)

[Bad Drummer]

Actually i can hold the stick just fine. we did playing tests in school, we had to sight read a snare peice, and i got a 25/25 for points. to get this you did not only have to play it with no mistakes but you have to be able to hold the sticks properly i guess because, the teacher commented how well i am able to hold the sticks and how he likes my grip.

your teacher is wrong.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Right, so I see that you keep saying that you're getting better and better, but we need proof. Any more videos? Show us a video of a groove...a nice, easy groove.

[Class A Drummer]

Right, so I see that you keep saying that you're getting better and better, but we need proof. Any more videos? Show us a video of a groove...a nice, easy groove.

ill see what i can do. I'll think about what to put up because watching others groove can sometimes get boring.