building up patina on cymbals

[xkevinx]

i recently got a really beautiful Bosphorus 18" Jazz Crash/Ride, around 1740 grams. sounds great, but i know it'll sound even better (a little mellower, possibly slightly lower pitched?) when it's nice and dirty. Is there any way to speed up this process instead of it taking a couple years time? should i handle it lots or cover it in stick marks a thousand times over or bury it in the garden (heard of someone doing this once)? how does this occur naturally?

[fooleeze]

I heard of 'burying it in the dirt' for a week or two. . . but I've never tried this. Maybe someone else can shed some light on it.

[RMS]

It's called oxidization, it's caused by exposure to air and moisture...it's basically rust, only with copper it turns green.

[fooleeze]

Ok, I've got an idea. I have a cracked zildjian A splash at home. . . I'm going to polish it up real nice-like, take some pictures, then bury it in the ground, wait a week, then pull it out, take pictures, maybe put it back in, who knows. It'll be a test to see what happens. I'll post pictures of before & after. Good times.

[IDDrummer]

Patina is indeed minute amounts of surface oxidation, but be careful w/ burying a cymbal. Depending on the moisture and chemical conditions in your soil, you may get deeper corrosion that will weaken and damage the cymbal.

I'm looking forward to Fooleeze's results. However, I have to say I don't believe much in the "dirty cymbal sounds better" theory. I buy my cymbals for the sound qualities they already possess, and I like clean, shiny cymbals. To me, they are a symbol of a well-cared for kit.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

johan vds (see hand-hammering and re-creating cymbals thread above) should be able to

help you out if you send him a pm about the chemicals he uses to do such things to his

cymbals.

[jazzgregg]

A week in the ground won't do it. I tried for a 6 month stretch and it barely made a difference at all. It has to be in there for a LONG time, I think Philly Joe used bury his for 1 or 2 years or something. I personally believe in the aging of a cymbal, that a dirty cymbal will unquestionably sound warmer. Why? There's all that crap in the grooves that limit the high resonating frequencies (or something like that). While I buy cymbals based on their current qualities, I look forward to what they'll sound like after years of playing.

You can buy this stuff called 'Patina Green' at the hardware store, apparently, and it will do the trick-spray on as much as you think you'll need, scrape off what you don't. Still, I agree, ask Johan VDS, he's an expert.
G

[fooleeze]

Well, I've got my 12" Zildjian A Splash (with a wicked radial crack). For my own curiosity, I'm going to give this burying thing a shot. I'm going to water it too, see if it becomes a 14" or 16" cymbal in a few weeks. I'll pull it out once a week to take a photograph of it, and see what is going to happen. If nothing else, my neighbors will think I'm nuts.

Here is the 'before' picture. Check back in a week or so for updates.

5326

[xkevinx]

i planted an avedis zildjian 16" medium thin today too. if it sprouts and starts growing more, i'll spend a couple thousand bones on some K Zildjian Istanbul rides and set up a plantation.

[thumper]

I'm probably out of line here, but I like my cymbals to look clean...I just picked up a brand new 20" Sabian AA medium heavy ride with a brilliant finish that makes me wince, 'cause I know it's gonna show every damn stick and finger mark (over time) no matter how often I clean it with Pledge. I prefer the "traditional" finish (less grime showing) , but I've been looking for this ride for a long time, so I have to live with it I guess...OK, go ahead with the scorn and criticism LOL!

[fooleeze]

I've got a nice spot in my flowerbed that would work well for that cymbal. :)

Nah, it's a matter of personal preference. Whether it be for looks, sound, whatever, you're entitled to like the cymbals whichever way you choose.

I did learn that using rain-x on cymbals will help prevent fingerprints from sticking. . . just a thought. I haven't tested it extensively, but it may be worth a shot, as it's a relatively harmless chemical.

[iamtak]

you should be able to do it by hydrolysis. You could put the cymbals in a little kiddie pool, you could use salt water, that should help corrode it and conduct better. Hook up a battery to each cymbal one at each end of the pool, a car battery should work, connect both terminals to the battery and it should work. One will corrode faster than the other.

do this outside.

saltwater alone on the cymbal would work alright too perhaps?

tak

[Ufipman!]

I can't believe what i'm reading here... I've never ever heard of this.
I think you have a great cymbal. just play it.
dig it...don't bury it.

[Auger]

A week in the ground won't do it. I tried for a 6 month stretch and it barely made a difference at all.
G

Yeah, I tried this too. I had a 15" crash I didn't really like so I buried it for a few months just for kicks to see what would happen. ...nothing happened. hahah, it looked exactly the same!

[fooleeze]

Dang. . . so my burying isn't going to work, according to some of what you tried. But the salt-water thing sounds interesting. . . that'll be my next experiment. However I'm not sure I'm going to try to zap my cymbal with a car-battery (for personal safety reasons).

[Ekim]

Wussy! :P

I hate cleaning cymbals. Nothing seems to get them as clean as I want, so now I just let them sit.

[xkevinx]

WOW that hydrolysis idea is wicked! i think i might try that...
if i electrocute myself to death, i know who to blame though..... :)

[syaoran05]

I'm probably out of line here, but I like my cymbals to look clean...I just picked up a brand new 20" Sabian AA medium heavy ride with a brilliant finish that makes me wince, 'cause I know it's gonna show every damn stick and finger mark (over time) no matter how often I clean it with Pledge. I prefer the "traditional" finish (less grime showing) , but I've been looking for this ride for a long time, so I have to live with it I guess...OK, go ahead with the scorn and criticism LOL!

is pledge safe for cymbals? would it rub off the protective coating or something like that? and wouldnt it be kinda oily?

[fooleeze]

Ok gang, I'm really sorry for the delay, but got a little busy. In total, my cymbal spent 3 weeks (21 days) in my soil. I was a little surprised by the results! The pictures are below of the before and after. The photo was taken under the same light conditions for both. I also washed off the cymbal after pulling it out of the ground (with dish-soap and a brush), so what you see is actually in the metal, and not just dirt on top. The 'patina' is a little spotty, but this may go away over time. Also keep in mind, my dirt has a decent amount of sand, shale, maybe some limestone, and some mulch. . . so an interesting mix. Your dirt may cause different results. Also, I got a decent amount of rain over those 3 weeks as well.

But, my thoughts: I'm not positive this will make a big difference in the sound. I think the aging of a cymbal and the maturity of the sound has more to do with the transformation (breaking in) of the metal over the years than it does the 'dirt.' Anyways, it was fun.

5914 5915

[Deathmetalconga]

I think rubbing candle wax would clog up the pores in the metal much like dirt, grime and skin oil. Maybe try that.

I like my cymbals shiny, however. I put them up and take them down with soft cotton gloves, which I keep in my cymbal safe with some Mr. Metal polish and a couple of rags.

www.terrasonus.com

Ironwood drum set http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18719.

[vedox1024]

i have a 20" AA medium ride. there's also one at my school which i play all the time, it's a few years old, and has had heavy use, and is that nice yellow-brown color. it sounds really good, which was the reason i got mine in the first place. when i got mine, it was used, and a little dirty, but not too bad. i hate it. it sounds so high-pitched, and ringy. like playing right up next to the bell, even if i'm way out on the edge. so i decided to bury it, since i'd heard of this before. i buried it for 2 weeks, and it rained quite a bit during that time. i uncovered it, and right away i could see that it did nothing. so i buried it for another week, and dug it up (i needed my cymbal back) and after hosing the dirt off, and drying it... it's even shinier than when i first got it! (sounds even worse too) it became clear to me that it's got a brilliant finish, instead of the traditional (flat) finish like the schools.

sooo in so many words; burying cymbals with brilliant finish will clean them, but will not oxodize or age them.

[Andysutton2073@gmail.com]

Yes, burying it does work, but you have to do other things to it as well. First you want to start off with taking a sander to the surface of the cymbal to get the polish and finish off. This will expose the raw metal. Then you bury it in the ground inside a plastic bag that has a brine in it, like vinegar or salt water. I did this to a 22' Sabian Flat Ride for a week and a half and it worked like a charm. You want to be careful with it for the first few weeks, though, as it could crack and is a little more brittle.

[audiotech]

Yes, burying it does work, but you have to do other things to it as well. First you want to start off with taking a sander to the surface of the cymbal to get the polish and finish off. This will expose the raw metal. Then you bury it in the ground inside a plastic bag that has a brine in it, like vinegar or salt water. I did this to a 22' Sabian Flat Ride for a week and a half and it worked like a charm. You want to be careful with it for the first few weeks, though, as it could crack and is a little more brittle.

I guess that's like saying good by to your guarantee. I buy my cymbals for the exact sound they produce at the date of the sale and I basically keep them clean and unaltered as long as I possibly can. This way their sound will still change, but over a very long period of time that I don't notice that it's happening.

Dennis

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Yes, burying it does work, but you have to do other things to it as well. First you want to start off with taking a sander to the surface of the cymbal to get the polish and finish off. This will expose the raw metal. Then you bury it in the ground inside a plastic bag that has a brine in it, like vinegar or salt water. I did this to a 22' Sabian Flat Ride for a week and a half and it worked like a charm. You want to be careful with it for the first few weeks, though, as it could crack and is a little more brittle.

I'm sorry mate, but I just can't take this seriously. I dearly hope no one is actually influenced by this. And why is it only brittle and prone to cracking for a few weeks following this ceremonial burying? It makes no sense.....none of it does.

[nickg]

I'm sorry mate, but I just can't take this seriously. I dearly hope no one is actually influenced by this. And why is it only brittle and prone to cracking for a few weeks following this ceremonial burying? It makes no sense.....none of it does.

because some other drummer said so...isn't that all you need to know?? :) :)

[Chaos_Inferno]

Yes, burying it does work, but you have to do other things to it as well. First you want to start off with taking a sander to the surface of the cymbal to get the polish and finish off. This will expose the raw metal. Then you bury it in the ground inside a plastic bag that has a brine in it, like vinegar or salt water. I did this to a 22' Sabian Flat Ride for a week and a half and it worked like a charm. You want to be careful with it for the first few weeks, though, as it could crack and is a little more brittle.

Of all the sarcastic troll posts I've read on here, I don't think I've ever read one about breaking/taking someone's gear that I think was made with the intent of getting someone to actually do this rather than for humor's sake...

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

because some other drummer said so...isn't that all you need to know?? :) :)

Yep. Over my head mate.

Personally, if I ever wanted to "darken up" my A Custom......I'd sell it and buy a K.