application of rudiments

[millerdakiller]

So I see all this talk of rudiments, but never how anybody applies them.

lets hear it?

I'll let you guys in on my secret lick. It's a really tight funk lick that I love.

you get a good backbeat going then on beat four you play a paradiddlediddle at as 16th note triplets keeping your right hand on the hi-hat and your left on the snare(ghosting it). Then the next measure you start the fill on beat 3 but this time it's 3 paradiddle's that end on a left handed crash hit. Again, hands in the same place, same division, completely different feel. I love it. It's my current favorite lick. When I play it most of the drummers who hear it go,"what the F?". THat's how I know it's good. heh. It's actually really easy once you get the hang of it.

Alright, now it's your turn. What do you have for me?

[jangus]

I need to work on putting rudiments into my drumming more. But I really dig that lick man.

[matt949]

I'm totaly trying that lick out!

[millerdakiller]

do it. You'll love it. If you do it right, it should sound butter smooth. It;'s very Gadd~like

[deltadrummer1]

do it. You'll love it. If you do it right, it should sound butter smooth. It;'s very Gadd~like

Cool would you like to demonstrate it to us?

[somedrummer]

I just need to use more paradiddlediddles. I never think to use them when I'm playing, usually just playing my triplets straight hand to hand. Adding in some weird accents could get some crazy stuff going with that groove.

[NUTHA JASON]

my prime use for rudiments is not so much at the speed that marching bands do them (i play the double stroke rather than bounce it).

i look at any double stroke within a rudiment as 'an opportunity to move my other hand somewhere else'. for example the double stroke with my right on the floor tom buys me time to get my left hand high up for a great visual crash. but in musical terms this application can be taken much further.
as a practice technique i will play lets say inverted paradiddles over the toms but each time i double stroke, the opposite hand must move either a) far away from the drum it just played (so if it just hit the floor tom it now moves up to the hihat or 8'' tom) or b) into an arm cross over. i mess around with this principle without a metronome and at a very comfortable speed until i get an interesting pattern. then i record it on my module, speed it up and see if it would still sound good at higher tempos, change the pattern if it needs it (like for instance, most commonly, there wil be too much snare). slow it down, write it down and then play it at gradually increasing speeds with a metronome so that it is ready to break out during a solo. also once it is very comfortable i might add slightly different accent patterns.

i also often try and swing any rudiment i am comfortable with. (play it with a triplet feel)

drags and ruffs are a matter of embellishment in grooves and fills...suffice it to say that they should be able to be played be either hand, very neatly, anywhere and at any time.

j

[Stu_Strib]

I really don't use rudiments as applied to the kit per se. Rather, I use them to improve my stick control and musicality. I can only think of one rudiment pattern that I consciously think of when I play it (double paradiddle in 12/8 meter).

Other than that though, ruffs, flams, single strokes, rolls, etc. are all applied on the kit, but not in a specific "lick".

I tend to play a lot of stuff on my snare drum, so yeah, rudiments come through on there a lot.

[stumprrp]

that lick sounds very cool could you possible write it out for us with rights and lefts?

rudiments i use alot are paradiddle, diddles, doubles, ruffs, drags, and triplets.

[millerdakiller]

here is a transcription. It's broken into 4 two bar phrases

[stumprrp]

thanks for that man i think i understand now, a sound clip would be even better though LOL im such a pain.

[millerdakiller]

I'm. nows not a good time. I'm a little inhebriated. (dont tell the mods) So My playing is gonna sound like trash. If I remember, I'll record a bit tommorw.

[somedrummer]

Hey Miller, thanks for posting that, I've been playing around with it recently and find it to be a very interesting addition to my "groove library". Well done!

Now... I just need to come up with something that cool to post.

[mesopystic]

You guys surely might be playing this groove....

Its a Paradiddle RlrlLrll on the ride and and snare with the accents on 1 & 3

However play the bass notes at 1 and 2+ ...........sounds cool........ like a sweet lil groove.

[millerdakiller]

Anyone know howw I can post a recording. I did one today for this topic, but I can't pu tit up.

[photon]

Lately I've been working a a groove where I do a paradiddle between my snare and kick while playing quarters on the hihat...sounds pretty cool and I've been working on getting it up to a good speed.

I have also been working on a paradidle between the left and right foot with my double pedal while playing quarters and experimenting with various accents on the snare.

For a workout I like to do paradiddles between the floor and rack toms while keeping a solid four on the floor with the kick and 2 and 4 on the hats and working up the speed on that.

[stumprrp]

To post the recording upload it on to www.putfile.com, or send it to me via AIM and i will do it for you.

[millerdakiller]

alright. either my boy stump is gonna post a link, or hes gonna send it to me for me to post. Either way. A link will be here soon, so you can hear the lick as interpreted by Miller.

[Chip]

That's cool. I was just messing around with the triple paradiddle.

r l r l r l r r
l r l r l r l l

Right hand goes down the toms while the left is always on the hihat, then do the double on a ride, right hand goes back up. Put it in shuffle, and it's quite a nice fill.

[stumprrp]

http://media.putfile.com/Paradiddle-Licks

[jonescrusher]

Putfile, as usual, isn't working for me, could you post it on youtube?

[millerdakiller]

yah, it's not working for me either.

[Madzu]

If you learn the rudiments well enough, they wilil almost come automatically when you play your drum set...
But don't forget including both of your feets...
Use 4-way coordination with different rudiments...

[stumprrp]

putfile always works upgrade your quicktime player,

youtube is only for videos sorry.

[hanman]

I really like that. It's definitley a "Gadd-style" lick.

[millerdakiller]

It's a really sloppy playing of it. I'm really ashamed.

[jonescrusher]

Thanks for sharing, try throwing in some hihat barks in the sextuplet figures for a bit of colour, and keep that hi-hat closed really tight for funk feel like this! Oh, and always play to a click, to get things tight.

[millerdakiller]

Thanks for sharing, try throwing in some hihat barks in the sextuplet figures for a bit of colour, and keep that hi-hat closed really tight for funk feel like this! Oh, and always play to a click, to get things tight.

I would play to a click, except I don't care. IT was an example of a lick, not the quality of the playing, I did this take real early in the morning and I was real sick. Excuses aside, yah the time did suck, oh well. I can't the hi hats as closed as I want because i have a crappy stand that if you squeeze too hard, it loses it's grip and the hats slide up on the shaft, making them even looser.

[jonescrusher]

I would play to a click, except I don't care.

Lol, fair enough, just remember that playing to a click, especially when creating and practising new licks is a definite way of imporving quickly.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I would play to a click, except I don't care. IT was an example of a lick, not the quality of the playing, I did this take real early in the morning and I was real sick. Excuses aside, yah the time did suck, oh well. I can't the hi hats as closed as I want because i have a crappy stand that if you squeeze too hard, it loses it's grip and the hats slide up on the shaft, making them even looser.

Miller, stop making excuses. Just let them accept the quality of the clip. Your timing hasn't exactly been metronomic before but it's no reason to get defensive. You're only as good as your last clip and no number of excuses is going to make us think otherwise.

And if you were serious, you would care about the click. The quality of playing determines the quality of the lick.

[aahznightsky]

Well the lick is a cool one regardless ... anyways as far as execution of rudiments goes, NJ brought up a very good point, that any double is a good spot to move the other hand if desired.

Anyways one version I use of the swiss triplet (make the flams flat) goes like this

R R . R R .
| | | | | |
L . L L . L

so there's the swiss triplet. The every first Right hit is on a tom, and the second hit jumps to the snare. Every first Left hit is on the snare (the one lined up with the first Right tom hit), and every second Left hit is on a tom. It's just a neat sounding fill I'll sometimes use.

here's another orchestration I like, it works well on four piece sets with the positioning.

R R . R R .
| | | | | |
L . L L . L

So Blue is the ride cymbal, Red is the tom, and Black is the snare. It's a fun one to throw in as a fast dotted 8th note pattern at the end of a measure or something.


Another similar idea I use uses Flammed Mills (with flat flams)

sooo first learn your flammed mills till their second nature to you. They go like this

R R . R R . R . R R . R R . R .
L . L . L L . L L . L . L L . L

Now. A group of red notes will stay on one tom (which can change between each group of two tom hits), while the rest of the hits stay on the snare. This lick thingy will line up with a samba pattern, and just sounds nice in general.

With my odd setup I can get cool melodies with these guys, I'm not sure how great they will be on a regular setup but the licks ARE possible. Have fun!

[millerdakiller]

Miller, stop making excuses. Just let them accept the quality of the clip. Your timing hasn't exactly been metronomic before but it's no reason to get defensive. You're only as good as your last clip and no number of excuses is going to make us think otherwise.

And if you were serious, you would care about the click. The quality of playing determines the quality of the lick.

i wasn't getting defensive. but lets be fair, i was sick, it was like 3 am, and I was definately stoned. If it's that important to you, I'll make another, with a click. I know my timing was bad, that wasn't the point of the clip. The point was to show the lick. Regardless, I don't care if it sounds bad, if I did, I would make it not.

[theduke86]

Here's a cool one. I learned it from a Tony Williams transcription, Mr. Spock off of "Believe It" by his band Lifetime... (which is a GREAT album everyone should have.)
Flam accents at 160 bpm in sixteenth notes between the high tom and snare drum... start with a R on the high tom. Killer, killer, super duper hard lick.

[millerdakiller]

Does the right hand stay on the tom the whole time? Or does it move?

Those are some pretty fast flam accents, are you sure they aren't swiss?

[aahznightsky]

It stays, and it's positively flam accents. I was talking to him about this lick on Aim before he posted it, hehe.

[fourstringdrums]

It stays, and it's positively flam accents. I was talking to him about this lick on Aim before he posted it, hehe.

When you say a flam accent do you mean a flam tap?

lRr rLl lRr rLl etc..

I'm learning something like that now that starts off as 2 bars of 16th note flam taps followed by a bar of swiss triplets

so first lRr rLl lRr rLl | lRr rLl lRr rLl
then the swiss triplets

lRrl rLlr lRr

Then you start over leading with the left hand. Hope that makes sense :)

[aahznightsky]

nope nope, flam accents are a different rudiment. Groups of three. It's a cool exercise you got there. I would reccomend once you have a cool lick or pattern down on the pad, work on making it move around the kit in cool sounding ways. It'll really help your drumming!


And actually what you wrote isn't a swiss triplet. check my earlier post for that. What you wrote was a flam accent! triplets that alternate hands... swiss triplets stay leading with the hand that starts.

[fourstringdrums]

nope nope, flam accents are a different rudiment. Groups of three. It's a cool exercise you got there. I would reccomend once you have a cool lick or pattern down on the pad, work on making it move around the kit in cool sounding ways. It'll really help your drumming!


And actually what you wrote isn't a swiss triplet. check my earlier post for that. What you wrote was a flam accent! triplets that alternate hands... swiss triplets stay leading with the hand that starts.

Ok it looks like I'm confused here :) Thanks for the clarification.

Well the excercise I wrote above, my teacher uses on the set as a bebop pattern, usually with the right hand on the ride, left hand on the snare.

[millerdakiller]

why. we still haven't clarified, because that's rediculosuly fast for flam accents. LIke I can play them as eight note triplets at 160, but some how I feel like it's Swiss triplets, because I can hit them easy at 160 in 16ths.

[aahznightsky]

why. we still haven't clarified, because that's rediculosuly fast for flam accents.

That, my friend, is why this is a lick from Tony Williams.

[theduke86]

Thanks Aahz!!!
And it IS ridiculously fast for flam accents. I had to play the solo as part of my technical jury- I got an A+ but was never quite comfortable with that part. I just closed my eyes and powered through it and hoped for the best. It's really a bombastic really cool lick that requires some super good chops to play controlled. I still don't feel 100% about it.
edit: also if you're playing it in triplets (which you can) it's like playing eighth note triplets at 240 or so.

[millerdakiller]

thats rediculous, i still refuse to believe that it's not swisses.

[theduke86]

Well, swisses would be even harder at that speed, because there's only one hit on the tom... so you'd have to double your hand back in time. At that speed, I don't think there's anyone in the world who can do that.
As for the impossibility of pulling off that idea, think about it like this:
It's like accents in triplets at 240... If you play single stroke triplets at 240, lots can do that. If you place an extra note in, once every three strokes, it's like 4 strokes inside that time, right? if you can do bursts in 16ths in single stroke rolls from 260-280 bpm you can handle the two bar lick.

[aahznightsky]

Well, swisses would be even harder at that speed, because there's only one hit on the tom... so you'd have to double your hand back in time. At that speed, I don't think there's anyone in the world who can do that.


I wouldn't go that far. Swiss triplets at 16th notes at 160 right? With the right hand hitting the first tom then snare? I just tried and can do that fine. But then again I can do a bunch of stuff going between my toms and center snare quite quickly even things like double strokes and such ... and also my toms are right next to my snare, on the same plane and everything.

[millerdakiller]

ummm, what about sweeps?

[stumprrp]

the reason its so fast is because its tony! a god!!

paradiddles (not to go off the flam topic) are what i consider the best rudiment, ive came up with so many beats just this week with the paradiddle.

[theduke86]

I wouldn't go that far. Swiss triplets at 16th notes at 160 right? With the right hand hitting the first tom then snare? I just tried and can do that fine. But then again I can do a bunch of stuff going between my toms and center snare quite quickly even things like double strokes and such ... and also my toms are right next to my snare, on the same plane and everything.
Yeah, that's actually not as hard as I thought it was, even on my non-ergonomic drumset. It sounds different than flam accents though. It's definetly flam accents.

[aahznightsky]

Well if it's flam accents and the hands don't move, and there's only one hit on the tom ...

R . R r R . R . R r R .
l L . L . L l L . L . L

how does that work exactly? oh I see ... all the top line is on the tom, but with swiss triplets there would be two consecutive hits. I'm guessing that's whats going on?

[fourstringdrums]

When you say a flam accent do you mean a flam tap?

lRr rLl lRr rLl etc..

I'm learning something like that now that starts off as 2 bars of 16th note flam taps followed by a bar of swiss triplets

so first lRr rLl lRr rLl | lRr rLl lRr rLl
then the swiss triplets

lRrl rLlr lRr

Then you start over leading with the left hand. Hope that makes sense :)

Boy did I screw this up. I forgot the written excercise my teacher gave me last week at the store and I THOUGHT I remembered it, and it was what I wrote out above. It's actually the way I described it but written incorrectly:

I'll start with writing it out with the sticking for those who can't read music. I'm writing this as simply as I can. The upper case letter is a flam (ie. R would be a right flam).

So first it starts with two bars of flam taps:

Rr Ll | Rr Ll

then a bar of swiss triplets followed by a flam tap:

Rrl Rrl Rr (written out, it's actually written as 16th notes. My teacher calls that triplets in binary form).

Then you start over leading with the left hand.

Ll Rr | Ll Rr

Llr Llr Ll

then go back to leading with the right etc..

You can play that as a be-bop pattern with the right hand on the ride or a tom and the left hand on the snare.

Now this week I found out there is even more to it. You play through the patterns as above leading with your right, then your left, and then you go into 4 bars of 2 flam taps followed by a swiss triplet (in 7/16)

Rr Ll Rrl | Rr Ll Rrl | Rr Ll Rrl | Rr Ll Rrl

SO, all together it would be:

Rr Ll | Rr Ll

Rrl Rrl Rr

Ll Rr | Ll Rr

Llr Llr Ll

Rr Ll Rrl | Rr Ll Rrl | Rr Ll Rrl | Rr Ll Rrl

Here is the actual notation he wrote out:

http://www.handidrummed.com/flambebop.jpg

SO, if you're reading the transcription, it goes Pattern 1, Pattern 1, Pattern 2 | Pattern 1, Pattern 1, Pattern 3, then the final pattern at the bottom.

I HOPE this makes sense. I can make a video demoing it if anyone is interested (on a pad or snare only, I haven't gotten up to doing this on different drums yet) :) Next week he's going to be adding a 5/16 pattern to this :)

[theduke86]

Cool post FSD! I'm going to try and work that on a pad a little bit.
Aahz- I wish I could notate it properly... it's between the first tom and the snare... but the grace note is on the snare, and the accent is on the tom, and everything else is on the snare.

[aahznightsky]

Well, it's a repeating single figure, like this...

T . .
S S S

... then a swiss triplet sticking is completely possible.

[theduke86]

You're right... Having tried it out you can definetly use swisses. I find flam accents far easier as far as clarity goes. Moving without alternating in flam accents makes it far cleaner for most. it's certainly possible to do it in swisses though, and on the recording, it is indeed flam accents. There's a much different sound to the two.

[millerdakiller]

yah, I'd probably bitchout and play it as Swisses because I suck. heh. I can get em really clear as swisses though. I use that lick a lot actually as swisses.

[DillingerEscp]

Really grooved thing I like is a paradiddle as a triplet.

My right hand on the bell of the ride, left on the snare, and usually hitting the bass drum every time I hit the bell

R l r R l r L l r L r r L r l L r l R r l R l l

upper case is accented, lower case is ghost.

[DillingerEscp]

btw, I love the first posts lick, its awesome.

[millerdakiller]

thanks man. Yours sounds like its wild, except I don't think you typed it right.

[Graeme@beatofdrum.com]

Hi Everyone.

If you want to know how to apply rudiments into your playing....
Why not check my website out http://www.beatofdrum.com/clinic04.php

This link will take you to my video section showing how to apply many different rudiments into your playing.

Hope they help.

Graeme

[millerdakiller]

I have another one. This one is a measure long sixteenth note figure.

It's odd phased parradiddles. Here we go

RLRLRLLRLRLRLRRL

That's the sticking. Now here it si on a drumset.

T= tom
S= snare

Rl.R.l.Rl.l.R.L.r.L.rL.r.r.L
T.sT.sTs.sT.T.s.TsT.ssT

Ignore the periods. They're there to make it match up. I didn't feel like making them invisible. It's too much work. heh

[samthebeat]

Here some accent variations l like to use. I like to move the accents to the toms and crashes and stuff.

R l r r L r l l

r L r r l R l l

R l r r l R l l

r L r r L r l l

R L r r L R l l

[millerdakiller]

I'm really into the second one. It's kind of like this permutation of the paradiddle only phrased wierd:

RllrLrrl

I like to play that one accented like this though

RllRLrrL

[Henry II]

Here's a cool one. I learned it from a Tony Williams transcription, Mr. Spock off of "Believe It" by his band Lifetime... (which is a GREAT album everyone should have.)
Flam accents at 160 bpm in sixteenth notes between the high tom and snare drum... start with a R on the high tom. Killer, killer, super duper hard lick.

Are you sure TW isn't playing a "blushda" in that recording? For a lesson on the blushda, go to http://www.houseofdrumming.com/bio-test.htm and scroll down to the link to "first lesson."

[theduke86]

Haha, nope, not a blushda. Doesn't have the right sound!

[torben]

So I see all this talk of rudiments, but never how anybody applies them.

lets hear it?

I'll let you guys in on my secret lick. It's a really tight funk lick that I love.

you get a good backbeat going then on beat four you play a paradiddlediddle at as 16th note triplets keeping your right hand on the hi-hat and your left on the snare(ghosting it). Then the next measure you start the fill on beat 3 but this time it's 3 paradiddle's that end on a left handed crash hit. Again, hands in the same place, same division, completely different feel. I love it. It's my current favorite lick.

When I play it most of the drummers who hear it go,"what the F?".

I tried it, and it's damn good...

How the feck did you think that up!

[millerdakiller]

I tried it, and it's damn good...

How the feck did you think that up!

I was just practing paradiddles and paradiddle diddles and I noticed that three paradiddles have same number of hits a 2 paradiddlediddles. So i just used three parradiddle diddles instead

[millerdakiller]

here's a new idea. IT's a 5beat fill. it's just straight sixteenth notes and the sticking pattern is as follows:

RLRLLRLRLLRLRLLRLRRLR

and then the accents are played as follows:

R l R l l R l R l l R l R l l R L r r L R

It's a neat little lick but it's hard to fit into playing in a song format. It's cool in solos though.

[Skynman]

The most commonly used rudiments are? The single roll--The flam--The single paradiddle--and finally (drum roll please) variations of The compound strokes!! hehe!

[millerdakiller]

new ideas for old rudiments.


odd accents for paradiddle rudiments:

Paradiddle
RlrrlRll

Paradiddle-diddle

RlrrllrLrrll

thoughts?

[Wavelength]

new ideas for old rudiments.

...

thoughts?

Well, the ideas aren't exactly new... :-)

[millerdakiller]

I'm sure i'm not the first person ever to play that. or any of the other things in this thread, i just thought it was a cool idea to share.